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#1 Bunnyslippers

Member since 2003 • 2171 Posts

If this is true, then this could explain why the PAL version (but also the new US/JP versions) can only play limited numbers of PS2 titles. I am guessing they are using software emulation.

Click the links below

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-26609.aspx

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=59112

original source http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?forum_id=1&thread_id=75949&start=150

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 1083 Posts

Lets hope for the best.

17 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 2971 Posts

If this is true, then this could explain why the PAL version (but also the new US/JP versions) can only play limited numbers of PS2 titles. I am guessing they are using software emulation.
Bunnyslippers

You see,this is what makes me angry with sony sometimes!!!! When they put out the news about backward compatibility issues in the PAL region, they should give out more details from the start, so the media can't put a negative spin on it!!!

17 years ago

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#4 ultima-flare

Member since 2003 • 2259 Posts

Would this apply only to Euro ps3s or could the U.S. ps3s have this with a firmware update?

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 525 Posts

Would this apply only to Euro ps3s or could the U.S. ps3s have this with a firmware update?ultima-flare

Sony stated many moons ago that they would be doing Software emulation in the future when it is ready, to eliminate the need for the Emotion Engine chip. The did claim it would be available in a system update. Maybe this is the big surprise they have in store for GDC. That all PS2 games will be upconverted. /fingers crossed.

17 years ago

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#6 Vampyronight

Member since 2002 • 3933 Posts

Would this apply only to Euro ps3s or could the U.S. ps3s have this with a firmware update?ultima-flare

I would believe that newer PS3s in the US will have this, anyway. As far as older PS3s, I'd say yes, it could just take a firmware update. The reason is that the update would just disable the use of those chips inside the PS3 and run solely on software emulation. So that additional tech would just sit in there, unused.

17 years ago

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#7 UntoldDreams

Member since 2006 • 3238 Posts

Can you imagine 1080p upconverted PS2 games?

Of course... This would mean you would "want" to use the PS3 even if you have a PS2 for any supported game.

17 years ago

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#8 Bunnyslippers

Member since 2003 • 2171 Posts

Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.

Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?

17 years ago

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Member since 2007 • 1171 Posts

It would be pretty sick. If people can upscale dvds why not games?

17 years ago

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#10 zero_cool098

Member since 2006 • 1886 Posts

but wat if my tv just do up to 1080i? wil it upscale to that?

17 years ago

ColoradoKindBud

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#11 ColoradoKindBud

Member since 2005 • 23882 Posts

Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
Bunnyslippers

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

17 years ago

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#12 LoG-Sacrament

Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts

i dont see how it could make the games look any better. if the games werent originally designed with 1080p detail, i dont think it would make a difference. could anybody explain?

17 years ago

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#14 downPlayDemon

Member since 2004 • 3529 Posts

1080p I highly doubt it, 720p most likely.

17 years ago

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#15 -DirtySanchez-

Member since 2003 • 32760 Posts

nice news if true, and gives me more reason to get a hdtv what was the point of postin that picture? thats exactly how that scene looked on my SDtv

17 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 4362 Posts

The whole point of the software emulation was to provide increased compat and features, the features people have been **** bout. The software could easily render any PS2 game in 1080p if it wanted, after all its around 50x faster.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 2069 Posts

This would make sense. But, as with all things, seeing is believing.

I will believe it when I see it on *my* HDTV, on actual PS3 hardware *I* own, with games *I* own.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 3959 Posts

Perhaps this is what the big march update will have. On the european launch, perhaps a few days ahead or behind there would be a update that would have a select few games that can go to higher resolutions. I like that idea, though it would piss pal gamers off since they're already paying way more than people in the US.

17 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 2554 Posts

[QUOTE="Bunnyslippers"]
Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
ColoradoKindBud

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

agreed

17 years ago

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#20 kingalphagold

Member since 2006 • 304 Posts

Lets hope for the best.donmohsin

Yeah, lets. If the Xbox 360 can upscale the Xbox games, The PS3 can sure as **** do it for the PS one and PS2.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 109 Posts

[QUOTE="ColoradoKindBud"][QUOTE="Bunnyslippers"]
Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
crushgoil

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

agreed

Actually, it is very possible to upconvert PS2 games to 1080p. Yes, albeit the textures were designed for 480i, the polygons/vector graphics in the games are very upconvertable without losing any quality.

Also, how would it make the flaws more apparent when upconverting to 1080p in a, let's say, 50 inch HDTV, then keeping and stretching the image in native 480i or 480p(ps3) in a 50 inch HDTV?

Thus, disagreed.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 3959 Posts

[QUOTE="crushgoil"][QUOTE="ColoradoKindBud"][QUOTE="Bunnyslippers"]
Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
DavidCK

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

agreed

Actually, it is very possible to upconvert PS2 games to 1080p. Yes, albeit the textures were designed for 480i, the polygons/vector graphics in the games are very upconvertable without losing any quality.

Also, how would it make the flaws more apparent when upconverting to 1080p in a, let's say, 50 inch HDTV, then keeping and stretching the image in native 480i or 480p(ps3) in a 50 inch HDTV?

Thus, disagreed.

Yeah, its very possible and easy to do. Though the thing is, most ps2 games that came out in the later generation used textures that were 320x240 and scaled to be a 480i image. That was one of the ps2s so called *tricks* that was possible in the later generation of its life cycle. *Which is why games like devil may cry 3 and final fantasy 12 are so fricken jaggy if you play them on a hdtv. GT4 did this with its 1080i, but the game did use 640x480 textures at least*. Meaning ps2 games upscaled on the ps3 wouldn't look as good as the 360 upscaling xbox games to 1080p. *then again, the 360s upscaler brightened up xbox games which looked wrong, but everything else was good*

17 years ago

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Member since 2004 • 4980 Posts

[QUOTE="Bunnyslippers"]
Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
ColoradoKindBud

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

Isnt that what they are doing to the PSP's Tekken Dark Resurrection. And it looks pretty damn good. But then again its being created to support 1080p so i guess its different than a game already made then being upscaled

17 years ago

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#24 FootballGamer

Member since 2003 • 5521 Posts

Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
Bunnyslippers

If you are going above a 50inch screen which Im sure you will with a projector, I would definitely get 1080p.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 6564 Posts

[QUOTE="crushgoil"][QUOTE="ColoradoKindBud"][QUOTE="Bunnyslippers"]
Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
DavidCK

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

agreed

Actually, it is very possible to upconvert PS2 games to 1080p. Yes, albeit the textures were designed for 480i, the polygons/vector graphics in the games are very upconvertable without losing any quality.

Also, how would it make the flaws more apparent when upconverting to 1080p in a, let's say, 50 inch HDTV, then keeping and stretching the image in native 480i or 480p(ps3) in a 50 inch HDTV?

Thus, disagreed.

There's a difference between upscaling and rendering you know. It's not going to help that much to upscale a PS2 game to 1080p, you are only stretching the image after it's rendered at 480i or 480p, like any 1080p tv would do itself when given those. While rendering would mean actually creating the images at 1080p, which would help make finer edges on polygons and such and textures in the distance when small enough would show more detail despite lower resolution.

Why are people really excited about upscaling, that would have hardly any effect on live uncompress games. The whole point of DVD upscalers is that they are supposed to have image enhancments too on top of upscaling, like special imaging chips to remove artifacts and aliasing for a smoother more natural image on a HD screen. No amount of those effects could ever hide aliasing in low-res PS2 games and there's no mpeg video compression to clean up in live games.

So again I ask, what the heck is the big deal about "Upscaling" a PS2 and PS1 game? They can't just suddenly make these games render at those resolutions because of compatibility problems, hardly any games would work. And the 360 I think actually renders Xbox games at 720p and AA applied, but this is why hardly any of the Xbox library works

17 years ago

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#26 Bunnyslippers

Member since 2003 • 2171 Posts

[QUOTE="DavidCK"][QUOTE="crushgoil"][QUOTE="ColoradoKindBud"][QUOTE="Bunnyslippers"]
Shadow of The Collossus in 1080p would be fantastic. Maybe I should skip the 720p projector and save money for a 1080p projector.
Which PS2 game whould you like to see in 1080p?
TimothyB

Actually, no it wouldn't. PS2 games running in 1080p would be terrible, it would show every little flaw so much more & would not look as great as everyone seems to think. Bumping PS2 games up to 720p would be MUCH better.

And this is never going to happen anyway, there's no way PS1/PS2 games are gonna get bumped up to 1080p.

agreed

Actually, it is very possible to upconvert PS2 games to 1080p. Yes, albeit the textures were designed for 480i, the polygons/vector graphics in the games are very upconvertable without losing any quality.

Also, how would it make the flaws more apparent when upconverting to 1080p in a, let's say, 50 inch HDTV, then keeping and stretching the image in native 480i or 480p(ps3) in a 50 inch HDTV?

Thus, disagreed.

There's a difference between upscaling and rendering you know. It's not going to help that much to upscale a PS2 game to 1080p, you are only stretching the image after it's rendered at 480i or 480p, like any 1080p tv would do itself when given those. While rendering would mean actually creating the images at 1080p, which would help make finer edges on polygons and such and textures in the distance when small enough would show more detail despite lower resolution.

Why are people really excited about upscaling, that would have hardly any effect on live uncompress games. The whole point of DVD upscalers is that they are supposed to have image enhancments too on top of upscaling, like special imaging chips to remove artifacts and aliasing for a smoother more natural image on a HD screen. No amount of those effects could ever hide aliasing in low-res PS2 games and there's no mpeg video compression to clean up in live games.

So again I ask, what the heck is the big deal about "Upscaling" a PS2 and PS1 game? They can't just suddenly make these games render at those resolutions because of compatibility problems, hardly any games would work. And the 360 I think actually renders Xbox games at 720p and AA applied, but this is why hardly any of the Xbox library works

Doesn't Bleem render PSone games in a higher resolution on the Dreamcast??

http://dreamcast.ign.com/articles/082/082188p1.html

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 4236 Posts

I hope this is true! I'm tired of the horrible jaggies I see in certain PS2/PS1 games on my PS3 connected to an HDTV via HDMI. If all they add is ant-aliasing to PS2/PS1 games I'll be happy.

17 years ago

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#28 gizmo_logix

Member since 2005 • 4224 Posts

If this is true, then this could explain why the PAL version (but also the new US/JP versions) can only play limited numbers of PS2 titles. I am guessing they are using software emulation.
Click the links below
http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-26609.aspx
http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=59112
original source http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_thread_posts.php?forum_id=1&thread_id=75949&start=150
Bunnyslippers

I saw these links a few days ago but I did not post them here since the photo can not be validated as true 1080p. As Yakumo said on Eurogamer, "atm I'd like to be convinced somehow they're not from the Xploder HDTV Player addon for the ps2 ( http://kotaku.com/gaming/ps2/the-ps2-at-1080i-208036.php )." All we have is that one photo. And http://www.pirotic.com/ bandwtih has reached its limit since he posted that single photo. Either way, I'd love for all PS2 games to be up converted. But 720p would be fine w/me. The only way I see 1080p possible is that there is more power in the PS3, and less pixels in PS2 games. So, frame-rate could be maintained @ 1080p. At least in theory.

17 years ago

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Member since 2002 • 7621 Posts

I would rather have the PS2 chipset in my PS3 than emulation that upscales. An HDTV has to upscale a 480p signal to display it anyway. I'd rather have a system that plays most of the PS2 games out there.

17 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 590 Posts

The whole point of the software emulation was to provide increased compat and features, the features people have been **** bout. The software could easily render any PS2 game in 1080p if it wanted, after all its around 50x faster.teebeenz

possible indeed then

17 years ago

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#31 UntoldDreams

Member since 2006 • 3238 Posts

If you guys have ever used EPSXE to play PS1 games on a PC you would know that PS1 games end up rendering in a high resolution and look dang near close to PS2 quality.

It wasn't shoddy at all the enhanced rendering smoothed out many artifacts.
I would expect the same thing from a PS2 emulator.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 6564 Posts

If you guys have ever used EPSXE to play PS1 games on a PC you would know that PS1 games end up rendering in a high resolution and look dang near close to PS2 quality.

It wasn't shoddy at all the enhanced rendering smoothed out many artifacts.
I would expect the same thing from a PS2 emulator.

UntoldDreams

You make a good point, but not type of upscaling will ever compare to the game actually rendering at high resolution and other texture filtering and AA PC video cards do. The upscaling just means it still does the game the way it's doing right now, and only converts it to HD after it rendered, so it's no different than taking a blurry low res photo off the internet and trying to enlarge in photoshop.

17 years ago

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#33 Haze-and-Ses

Member since 2006 • 224 Posts

The Warriors on xbox and ps2 would be amazing if it was upscaled....to em its graphics was the only reason it wasnt over a 9, in my opinion its one of the best i ever played for ps2

17 years ago

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#34 UntoldDreams

Member since 2006 • 3238 Posts

[QUOTE="UntoldDreams"]If you guys have ever used EPSXE to play PS1 games on a PC you would know that PS1 games end up rendering in a high resolution and look dang near close to PS2 quality.

It wasn't shoddy at all the enhanced rendering smoothed out many artifacts.
I would expect the same thing from a PS2 emulator.

TimothyB

You make a good point, but not type of upscaling will ever compare to the game actually rendering at high resolution and other texture filtering and AA PC video cards do. The upscaling just means it still does the game the way it's doing right now, and only converts it to HD after it rendered, so it's no different than taking a blurry low res photo off the internet and trying to enlarge in photoshop.

Actually EPSXE upgraded on the polygon rendering level. It was not image upscaling at all which is what you are talking about. It actually drew higher resolution polygons with the same textures. It smoothed out everything.

*** YES YOU HEARD ME. Go to the forums and check it out its true.
I've used EPSXE and apparently you are not aware of how it works.

17 years ago

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#35 LemonDefragger

Member since 2006 • 25 Posts

What about frame rate issues is my question.

17 years ago

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#36 pimperjones

Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts

WOW that looks great. Imagine PS2 games at 1080 with AA thats wild. I should stop playing Final Fantasy XII right now and wait for the updated firmware. Final Fantasy looks like ass on my HDTV, it's all jaggidly and blurry and the SD overscan creates a nasty black border around the game. Man this is a real treat. Currently all my PS2 games look like ass on my HDTV, is this the secret weapon.

17 years ago

6564

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Member since 2003 • 6564 Posts

[QUOTE="TimothyB"][QUOTE="UntoldDreams"]If you guys have ever used EPSXE to play PS1 games on a PC you would know that PS1 games end up rendering in a high resolution and look dang near close to PS2 quality.

It wasn't shoddy at all the enhanced rendering smoothed out many artifacts.
I would expect the same thing from a PS2 emulator.

UntoldDreams

You make a good point, but not type of upscaling will ever compare to the game actually rendering at high resolution and other texture filtering and AA PC video cards do. The upscaling just means it still does the game the way it's doing right now, and only converts it to HD after it rendered, so it's no different than taking a blurry low res photo off the internet and trying to enlarge in photoshop.

Actually EPSXE upgraded on the polygon rendering level. It was not image upscaling at all which is what you are talking about. It actually drew higher resolution polygons with the same textures. It smoothed out everything.

*** YES YOU HEARD ME. Go to the forums and check it out its true.
I've used EPSXE and apparently you are not aware of how it works.

I can see something like that being done on PC, subdividing the polygons. But can you see the problems if they tried to do that with the PS3, there'd be way too many glitches in games to ever have it succesful. Just look at the old days when there was a store sold PS1 emulator, wasn't it called Bleem?

17 years ago

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#38 pimperjones

Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts

[QUOTE="UntoldDreams"][QUOTE="TimothyB"][QUOTE="UntoldDreams"]If you guys have ever used EPSXE to play PS1 games on a PC you would know that PS1 games end up rendering in a high resolution and look dang near close to PS2 quality.

It wasn't shoddy at all the enhanced rendering smoothed out many artifacts.
I would expect the same thing from a PS2 emulator.

TimothyB

You make a good point, but not type of upscaling will ever compare to the game actually rendering at high resolution and other texture filtering and AA PC video cards do. The upscaling just means it still does the game the way it's doing right now, and only converts it to HD after it rendered, so it's no different than taking a blurry low res photo off the internet and trying to enlarge in photoshop.

Actually EPSXE upgraded on the polygon rendering level. It was not image upscaling at all which is what you are talking about. It actually drew higher resolution polygons with the same textures. It smoothed out everything.

*** YES YOU HEARD ME. Go to the forums and check it out its true.
I've used EPSXE and apparently you are not aware of how it works.

I can see something like that being done on PC, subdividing the polygons. But can you see the problems if they tried to do that with the PS3, there'd be way too many glitches in games to ever have it succesful. Just look at the old days when there was a store sold PS1 emulator, wasn't it called Bleem?

Problem with most emulators is they aren't written by the guys who own the technology thats why they're buggy. Most PC emulator fail because there's not enough hardware to software interaction, its always sofwatre running software. What I think Sony is trying to do is get the CELL to emulate the EE, hence more hardware emulating hardware to run software. If anyone can do it's gotta be Sony.

17 years ago

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#39 CaptainCrazy

Member since 2002 • 6856 Posts

No point in upconverting ps2 games to 1080p. I have GT4 running on my PS2 on a HDTV at 1080i and it maeks graphics look more crisp but I can see more flaws and grain in the textures compared to if i run the game at 480.

17 years ago

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#40 pimperjones

Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts

No point in upconverting ps2 games to 1080p. I have GT4 running on my PS2 on a HDTV at 1080i and it maeks graphics look more crisp but I can see more flaws and grain in the textures compared to if i run the game at 480.CaptainCrazy

I don't think its upconverting, it's actually rerendering everything and even adding AA. It's like PC emulation, it's not a simple upconversion

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 934 Posts

Would this apply only to Euro ps3s or could the U.S. ps3s have this with a firmware update?ultima-flare

If the news is true, that first link addresses that already. It said that launch units will use the ps3's power to render and apply anti-aliasing while the chipset does it's normal routine of running the games.

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 5505 Posts

As someone who's had a ps3 since launch, I would be absolutely furious if newer ps3s upscaled older games to 720p/1080i/1080p. Sony really better offer to replace older ps3s with the newer versions if this is true.

17 years ago

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#43 pimperjones

Member since 2006 • 3116 Posts

As someone who's had a ps3 since launch, I would be absolutely furious if newer ps3s upscaled older games to 720p/1080i/1080p. Sony really better offer to replace older ps3s with the newer versions if this is true.dru26

The upscaluing is only a firmware update it'll apply for North American systems as well.

17 years ago

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#44 UntoldDreams

Member since 2006 • 3238 Posts

[QUOTE="UntoldDreams"][QUOTE="TimothyB"][QUOTE="UntoldDreams"]If you guys have ever used EPSXE to play PS1 games on a PC you would know that PS1 games end up rendering in a high resolution and look dang near close to PS2 quality.

It wasn't shoddy at all the enhanced rendering smoothed out many artifacts.
I would expect the same thing from a PS2 emulator.

TimothyB

You make a good point, but not type of upscaling will ever compare to the game actually rendering at high resolution and other texture filtering and AA PC video cards do. The upscaling just means it still does the game the way it's doing right now, and only converts it to HD after it rendered, so it's no different than taking a blurry low res photo off the internet and trying to enlarge in photoshop.

Actually EPSXE upgraded on the polygon rendering level. It was not image upscaling at all which is what you are talking about. It actually drew higher resolution polygons with the same textures. It smoothed out everything.

*** YES YOU HEARD ME. Go to the forums and check it out its true.
I've used EPSXE and apparently you are not aware of how it works.

I can see something like that being done on PC, subdividing the polygons. But can you see the problems if they tried to do that with the PS3, there'd be way too many glitches in games to ever have it succesful. Just look at the old days when there was a store sold PS1 emulator, wasn't it called Bleem?

It should be easier because you don't have hardware and software variances like the crazy PC world.
You have 1 predefined type of graphics hardware and software setup.

It's actually much harder in the PC world due to all the different types of graphics cards and the stability of Windows is "horrible" between patches and updates you are never certain of what you have on a given day.

17 years ago

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#45 UntoldDreams

Member since 2006 • 3238 Posts

As someone who's had a ps3 since launch, I would be absolutely furious if newer ps3s upscaled older games to 720p/1080i/1080p. Sony really better offer to replace older ps3s with the newer versions if this is true.dru26

It's a firmware update. You would receive the ability to do it through a download.

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 5505 Posts

I thought it was an emulator added to the new console in order to cut down the costs of adding the original ps2 hardware.

17 years ago

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Member since 2003 • 5600 Posts

As someone who's had a ps3 since launch, I would be absolutely furious if newer ps3s upscaled older games to 720p/1080i/1080p. Sony really better offer to replace older ps3s with the newer versions if this is true.dru26

calm down, this is a firmware update that would be added to all existing ps3's through system update

17 years ago

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