The truth/ reality of gaming is.....

that there is no truth or reality in the universe.

Let me explain. The above statement would only be true if there were different dimensions of our universe. For that to happen we would have to live in A universe not the THE universe which would mean we live in a multiverse. And if in that multiverse there is 1 or more different version of our universe then there would be dimensions. And if dimensions exsist then the very meaning of reality would be flawed and distorted rendering reality, not real. And if reality is not real then nothing is real for US. But if there is another universe that doesnt have a different version of it in the mulitiverse then that universe is the only one of its kind and everything in that universe would be real. For all i know we are that universe, or we are the universe that has different dimensions and has no reality. Do you see now?

who is your dealer?StankMango

ROFL!!!!! Nice one there.

Back on topic, so how do you assume that there aren't other universes/dimensions?

I think I understand where you're going with this. In a nutshell, any game that we play for all we know has it's own universe. Yet we portray it as fiction, but what you are saying is that it could be real because it could exist in other dimensions.

Although that are no facts to prove this theory, we don't know if in fact these dimensions do exist (in the reality we understand and what we call "real"). Hopefully, that cleared things up for some people. :P

P.S.- This belongs in Off-Topic Discussions :)

i dont get it.... what duz this have to do with ps3 again????Falco-88

Maybe he's saying the ps3 rocks in multiple universes. haha jk.

No you are all wrong. What im saying is that IF, IF there are other universes, then we live in a multiverse. And IF, IF there is 1 or more universe exactly like ours but different somehow, then there are dimesions, or realms. And if these dimensions or realms exsist then they are real, but different from us, as in that dimension might have a different science, then who is to which is dimension is real and which is not? No one is the answer. No one can tell us which is real therefore none of the dimensions are real. Nothing is true.

And some people here are right, this has barely anything to gaming. But it does, you see? If nothing is real then games arent real, you and i arent real. And if nothing is real, then who are you to say that something that is not real is not real. Who are you to say with confidence that a game is not real. You yourself might not be real. Do you see?

But then again this theory cant be proven true until a dimension, if one exists, contacts us, or vice versa. Therefore this theory cant be proven true, OR FALSE, until the existence of other dimensions are proven true or fals.

Back on topic, so how do you assume that there aren't other universes/dimensions?

Sauce74

I dont, and until it is proven whether or not there are other universes/dimensions, then my theory cant be proven true or false. So i cant say with certainty that what im saying is true, but no one can say with certainty that what im saying is false.

Lol, i like you, you asked the right question.

who is your dealer?StankMango

LOL! This kid named Temoc, why? JK

thats some deep ****

There were these two mathematicians called Kurt Gödel and Paul Cohen who proved that if the hypothesis of Cantor's continuum (the one which orders all existing numbers in an infinite horizontal line) is either applied or not applied to theories of numeric sets, these theories make sense. This proved that every logical system contains propositions which are undecideable. In other words: the universe in which we live can't possibly sustain itself, because it defies logic. Gödel proposed that there must be another "well-defined" universe which serves as a base for this one.

Physics also say that there must be at least 13 other dimensions to explain all existing things in this one. But, mathematically, the number of possible dimensions is n.

As far as the philosophical and existencial implications of this go, which questions whether rality is real or not, I only have to say this: if this universe is an illussion, so am I, and so there's no reason for me to give a sh*t.

Your insane rant is flawed. The fact that other universes exist would not make this reality or any other invalid or not real. It would still be reality, along with the rest of the multiverse. As far as people are concerned, were a multiverse proven, it would just mean there would be more people. Even duplicates would be seperate individuals, with their own lives, families, and fingerprints (DNA does not determine fingerprints or retina patterns as shown by twins.) This rant isn't a theory, you've swerved off into philosophy territory, jack. Dem' philosofer's don't take kindly to scientists infringin' on dr' toif. I'd really like to know what the heck you read or watched to make you go off on this. And don't you dare say The One. :Pmbrockway

You have point, but so do I. You see, you misread. I didnt say other universes in general. I said other versions of our universe, which would mean that it is not just another universe but it is a dimension of our universe. And the people there would not be just duplicates with there own lives, they would be us, but somehow different, like duplicates in a deeper way that cant be described, with the same DNA. And it would prove our reality wrong because our reality is there reality, but there reality is different so who is to say which reality is true? And this is where you are wrong, there is only one reality, there other worlds, universes, and so on and so forth, but there is only one reality. So if there are 2 realities then nothing is real.

And this isnt a rant it is a theory, or philosophy as you call it. The truth is, this all came from my mind, outta nowhere really. But if there is no reality, then there is no truth. LOL. I proved your anti theory wrong, but i approve of your reason. And as i said earlier my theory cant be proven wrong until the existence of other dimensions is proven false. Is it clear now?

There were these two mathematicians called Kurt Gödel and Paul Cohen who proved that if the hypothesis of Cantor's continuum (the one which orders all existing numbers in an infinite horizontal line) is either applied or not applied to theories of numeric sets, these theories make sense. This proved that every logical system contains propositions which are undecideable. In other words: the universe in which we live can't possibly sustain itself, because it defies logic. Gödel proposed that there must be another "well-defined" universe which serves as a base for this one.

Physics also say that there must be at least 13 other dimensions to explain all existing things in this one. But, mathematically, the number of possible dimensions is n.

As far as the philosophical and existencial implications of this go, which questions whether rality is real or not, I only have to say this: if this universe is an illussion, so am I, and so there's no reason for me to give a sh*t.

Clauricaune

That is even more off-topic than i am.

What you percieve as reality is nothing more than a biased opinion formulated into words. Reality is nothing more than a word that was given meaning into something we define. However, if we cannot define that something, then we categorize that unknown under another word called existence. What is reality? What is universe? Is it something we share with other existences along with what we call time?

Noted, like you've mentioned, our reality is not real, but what does real truly mean?

Basically what I'm saying is, you perceive reality as something. I perceive reality as perception we cannot understand.

that there is no truth or reality in the universe.

Let me explain. The above statement would only be true if there were different dimensions of our universe. For that to happen we would have to live in A universe not the THE universe which would mean we live in a multiverse. And if in that multiverse there is 1 or more different version of our universe then there would be dimensions. And if dimensions exsist then the very meaning of reality would be flawed and distorted rendering reality, not real. And if reality is not real then nothing is real for US. But if there is another universe that doesnt have a different version of it in the mulitiverse then that universe is the only one of its kind and everything in that universe would be real. For all i know we are that universe, or we are the universe that has different dimensions and has no reality. Do you see now?

Killer-X5

the existence of multiverses comes from the fact that when 2 events are possible to happen, why would only one of them happen and not the other one? in fact some physicists believe that for every possible event to take place in the universe, a new universe branches off from the original and they will only vary from the original. so if you extrapolate this to all the reality you can easily see an infinite number of possible "versions" of our universe. there you would find that the probability P of one certain event to take place would be 1. P(x) = 1 ; whatever x you might chose.

this is certainly not proven, and very hardly it will, but according to the strings theory you should be able to "see" the other dimensions if you could look at something of the Planck lenght... 10^-36 meters. there you would be able to see these 10D strings vibrating and thus prove the existence of these multiverses.

it's cool that you took the time to think about such stuff, as a physics engineering student i can only smile when some person takes the time of his life to look into such matters with interest. even though you certainly came to your conclusions alone maybe you'll take this opportunity to learn something about this.

try to find some of Dr. Michio Kaku's videos on string's theory on youtube or something... he's a great speaker on physics and could probably make you understand some stuff I would take an aweful lot of time to explain :P

What you percieve as reality is nothing more than a biased opinion formulated into words. Reality is nothing more than a word that was given meaning into something we define. However, if we cannot define that something, then we categorize that unknown under another word called existence. What is reality? What is universe? Is it something we share with other existences along with what we call time?

Basically what I'm saying is, you percieve reality as something. I percieve reality as perception we cannot understand.

anewperfectday

Basically what im saying is that this so called perception does not exist at all, let alone able to be understood. You cant understand something that doesnt exist. But once again another person who's reason i approve of.

[QUOTE="anewperfectday"]

What you percieve as reality is nothing more than a biased opinion formulated into words. Reality is nothing more than a word that was given meaning into something we define. However, if we cannot define that something, then we categorize that unknown under another word called existence. What is reality? What is universe? Is it something we share with other existences along with what we call time?

Basically what I'm saying is, you percieve reality as something. I percieve reality as perception we cannot understand.

Killer-X5

Basically what im saying is that this so called perception does not exist at all, let alone able to be understood. You cant understand something that doesnt exist. But once again another person who's reason i approve of.

All of your rhetoric is nothing more than a perception of reality, is it not?

[QUOTE="Killer-X5"]

that there is no truth or reality in the universe.

Let me explain. The above statement would only be true if there were different dimensions of our universe. For that to happen we would have to live in A universe not the THE universe which would mean we live in a multiverse. And if in that multiverse there is 1 or more different version of our universe then there would be dimensions. And if dimensions exsist then the very meaning of reality would be flawed and distorted rendering reality, not real. And if reality is not real then nothing is real for US. But if there is another universe that doesnt have a different version of it in the mulitiverse then that universe is the only one of its kind and everything in that universe would be real. For all i know we are that universe, or we are the universe that has different dimensions and has no reality. Do you see now?

ginraisama

the existence of multiverses comes from the fact that when 2 events are possible to happen, why would only one of them happen and not the other one? in fact some physicists believe that for every possible event to take place in the universe, a new universe branches off from the original and they will only vary from the original. so if you extrapolate this to all the reality you can easily see an infinite number of possible "versions" of our universe. there you would find that the probability P of one certain event to take place would be 1. P(x) = 1 ; whatever x you might chose.

this is certainly not proven, and very hardly it will, but according to the strings theory you should be able to "see" the other dimensions if you could look at something of the Planck lenght... 10^-36 meters. there you would be able to see these 10D strings vibrating and thus prove the existence of these multiverses.

it's cool that you took the time to think about such stuff, as a physics engineering student i can only smile when some person takes the time of his life to look into such matters with interest. even though you certainly came to your conclusions alone maybe you'll take this opportunity to learn something about this.

try to find some of Dr. Michio Kaku's videos on string's theory on youtube or something... he's a great speaker on physics and could probably make you understand some stuff I would take an aweful lot of time to explain :P

But what im saying is that each dimension, or version of our universe, is the originial, not a branch. Therefore the 2, or more, universes cancel each other's realities out, so there is no reality for us, IF in fact another originial dimension of our universe exists.

[QUOTE="mbrockway"]Your insane rant is flawed. The fact that other universes exist would not make this reality or any other invalid or not real. It would still be reality, along with the rest of the multiverse. As far as people are concerned, were a multiverse proven, it would just mean there would be more people. Even duplicates would be seperate individuals, with their own lives, families, and fingerprints (DNA does not determine fingerprints or retina patterns as shown by twins.) This rant isn't a theory, you've swerved off into philosophy territory, jack. Dem' philosofer's don't take kindly to scientists infringin' on dr' toif. I'd really like to know what the heck you read or watched to make you go off on this. And don't you dare say The One. :PKiller-X5

You have point, but so do I. You see, you misread. I didnt say other universes in general. I said other versions of our universe, which would mean that it is not just another universe but it is a dimension of our universe. And the people there would not be just duplicates with there own lives, they would be us, but somehow different, like duplicates in a deeper way that cant be described, with the same DNA. And it would prove our reality wrong because our reality is there reality, but there reality is different so who is to say which reality is true? And this is where you are wrong, there is only one reality, there other worlds, universes, and so on and so forth, but there is only one reality. So if there are 2 realities then nothing is real.

And this isnt a rant it is a theory, or philosophy as you call it. The truth is, this all came from my mind, outta nowhere really. But if there is no reality, then there is no truth. LOL. I proved your anti theory wrong, but i approve of your reason. And as i said earlier my theory cant be proven wrong until the existence of other dimensions is proven false. Is it clear now?

Yes, it can be disproved. Just because someone looks like you doesn't make them you. Even if a near identical world was found out of phase with ours, it wouldn't make them not real, no matter how closely people, places, and things matched. It wouldn't give you license to go on a killing spree just because they aren't from YOUR universe.

For something to be real, it has to be observed. The discovery of a parallel universe nearly identical to our own would be confirmation enough that its real. The same for them observing us.

I think I get it now, you've watched Noein, haven't you? You're actually off in existential/quantum theory land. Your argument doesn't even hinge on there being multiple universes or not. You actually arguing on the Descartes idea where you can't prove that anything at all is real.

[QUOTE="Killer-X5"][QUOTE="anewperfectday"]

What you percieve as reality is nothing more than a biased opinion formulated into words. Reality is nothing more than a word that was given meaning into something we define. However, if we cannot define that something, then we categorize that unknown under another word called existence. What is reality? What is universe? Is it something we share with other existences along with what we call time?

Basically what I'm saying is, you percieve reality as something. I percieve reality as perception we cannot understand.

anewperfectday

Basically what im saying is that this so called perception does not exist at all, let alone able to be understood. You cant understand something that doesnt exist. But once again another person who's reason i approve of.

All of your rhetoric is nothing more than a perception of reality, is it not?

Indeed it is, either that or its my perception of our existence without reality. Whats your point?

thats some deep ****

sushiboyyyy

[QUOTE="Killer-X5"]

[QUOTE="mbrockway"]Your insane rant is flawed. The fact that other universes exist would not make this reality or any other invalid or not real. It would still be reality, along with the rest of the multiverse. As far as people are concerned, were a multiverse proven, it would just mean there would be more people. Even duplicates would be seperate individuals, with their own lives, families, and fingerprints (DNA does not determine fingerprints or retina patterns as shown by twins.) This rant isn't a theory, you've swerved off into philosophy territory, jack. Dem' philosofer's don't take kindly to scientists infringin' on dr' toif. I'd really like to know what the heck you read or watched to make you go off on this. And don't you dare say The One. :Pmbrockway

You have point, but so do I. You see, you misread. I didnt say other universes in general. I said other versions of our universe, which would mean that it is not just another universe but it is a dimension of our universe. And the people there would not be just duplicates with there own lives, they would be us, but somehow different, like duplicates in a deeper way that cant be described, with the same DNA. And it would prove our reality wrong because our reality is there reality, but there reality is different so who is to say which reality is true? And this is where you are wrong, there is only one reality, there other worlds, universes, and so on and so forth, but there is only one reality. So if there are 2 realities then nothing is real.

And this isnt a rant it is a theory, or philosophy as you call it. The truth is, this all came from my mind, outta nowhere really. But if there is no reality, then there is no truth. LOL. I proved your anti theory wrong, but i approve of your reason. And as i said earlier my theory cant be proven wrong until the existence of other dimensions is proven false. Is it clear now?

Yes, it can be disproved. Just because someone looks like you doesn't make them you. Even if a near identical world was found out of phase with ours, it wouldn't make them not real, no matter how closely people, places, and things matched. It wouldn't give you license to go on a killing spree just because they aren't from YOUR universe.

For something to be real, it has to be observed. The discovery of a parallel universe nearly identical to our own would be confirmation enough that its real. The same for them observing us.

I think I get it now, you've watched Noein, haven't you? You're actually off in existential/quantum theory land. Your argument doesn't even hinge on there being multiple universes or not. You actually arguing on the Descartes idea where you can't prove that anything at all is real.

Dude your losing it. Im not saying that they are identical as in a clone. Im saying that they ARE you. A good explanation, but one that im not sure of, is that they are you in spirit/soul as well. BTW i have no idea what Noein is either. The last paragraph you wrote might be true but im getting tired and im losing my train of thought so if i could just have a nice nights rest, ill refute your mislead points tomorrow (from where i live, California).

u guys r a bunch of geeks nerds watever u want to call urself...but i didnt get on gamespot to hear about universes ...if i did want to hear about them i would have stayed in school...i cant believe my topics get banned cause i talk about games but o no this is allowed...u geekbrettski01

If you didnt come here to hear about univereses then why did you come to this topic? And by the way that you talk to me/us im guessing the mods had good reason to lock your topic.

i can not believe wat im reading on a gaming site...gamespot id like to call it sience class...gamespot is a terrible gaming site anymore and dont say well then get off of it...cause i am...bye geeks or nerds wich ever 1 fits ubrettski01

Sweet, the stupid 10 year old left!

You are flawed in assuming they ARE you. Now you are going off into souls/spirits as well. You're saying that you can't be disproven until multiple universes are proven false, but thats untrue. Its impossible to prove that you are right as well. The premise itself is unprovable. To clarify what I'm getting out of this: *There are other universes where people are you because they have the same soul. *These people are you, but not you due to differences. *You, the observer who is exploring this other universe, then become confused on whether you actually came from another universe or not. This confusion happens regardless of who the person is, it just happens, kind of like staring at the Earth from the first time from space. Anyone experiencing this phenomenae of a different universe reacts the exact same way, instant existential crisis. Disapearing in a poof of logic is purely coincidental. Thats what I'm getting out of this. To prove this true, you have to first confirm that both souls and God exist. Then you have to invent some device that is able to validate souls and compare them between people. Then you have to build some kind of interdimensional travel device. And finally you have to be a person with hardly any sense of self whatsoever. The kind of person who starts to freak out when someone moves the remote from the left arm of the chair to the right without noticing. Who isn't sure whether he just said that out loud. Someone who may very well be their own grandfather. This isn't a theory, its just something you'd tell your friends when you are drunk/high to expand your mind or something. Interesting to chat about, but nothing scientific about it. This is off in Descartes philosophy. You may want to give his book a read. Its starts out pretty trippy, but he pretty much ends up back where he started. A giant framework built up on uncertan and unproveable ideas.mbrockway

Dude, you are out of it man. Reread everything i have said if you want to keep debating. If not then leave, because you are going almost completely off-topic. I didnt say that they had the same souls, i said it was something deep, FOR EXAMPLE they have the same souls. Do you even remember what we are debating about? To prove my theory right, that the existence of another dimension of our universe would render our reality invalid, a dimesion of our universe must be discovered some way some how, and another completely different universe must discovered, not world or galaxy, a universe. And if that universe does not have any other dimensions then its reality is the only acceptable reality. But if we do not have any other dimensions whatsoever than our reality is real. Whats all this about souls and other weird s*** you spittin out?

this thread will be locked this should be in off-topic.Ownsin

I know but if it were in off-topic i probably wouldnt have met or been in a debate with any of these good people, now would I? And if the mods lock this thread what will i do, where will i restart this debate so that all the previously written info will be readily accessible? No where. I am grateful to the mods, wether theyve noticed this topic or not, for not locking it. It is off-topic but its hella cool too.

There were these two mathematicians called Kurt Gödel and Paul Cohen who proved that if the hypothesis of Cantor's continuum (the one which orders all existing numbers in an infinite horizontal line) is either applied or not applied to theories of numeric sets, these theories make sense. This proved that every logical system contains propositions which are undecideable. In other words: the universe in which we live can't possibly sustain itself, because it defies logic. Gödel proposed that there must be another "well-defined" universe which serves as a base for this one.

Physics also say that there must be at least 13 other dimensions to explain all existing things in this one. But, mathematically, the number of possible dimensions is n.

As far as the philosophical and existencial implications of this go, which questions whether rality is real or not, I only have to say this: if this universe is an illussion, so am I, and so there's no reason for me to give a sh*t.

Clauricaune

You just proved my point and what both of you said was off-topic...er. And bohr-einstein did you say it was? If what you say is true than that is amazing!

This is really like trying to argue with a 12 year old. You are saying that we have to discover a parallel dimension of our universe, then discover another universe without a parallel dimension.

Dude. The discovery of one would preclude the discovery of the other, do you get it? Parallel dimensions would be proven to exist. The other universe would exist, and we would be a different dimension of it. Dimensions probably not the word you are looking for, by the way. No debateable argument actually exists in this thread.

*Edit - Its Bose-Einstein Condensate. Been playing Mass Effect? :P Its something like a super atom, a group of atoms acting like one large one if I remember right. I don't really remember what its good for though.

This is really like trying to argue with a 12 year old. You are saying that we have to discover a parallel dimension of our universe, then discover another universe without a parallel dimension.

Dude. The discovery of one would preclude the discovery of the other, do you get it? Parallel dimensions would be proven to exist. The other universe would exist, and we would be a different dimension of it. Dimensions probably not the word you are looking for, by the way. No debateable argument actually exists in this thread.

*Edit - Its Bose-Einstein Condensate. Been playing Mass Effect? :P Its something like a super atom, a group of atoms acting like one large one if I remember right. I don't really remember what its good for though.

mbrockway

Now you are just confusing people. Your right, im wrong, you win, i lose. Now leave.

Its not really about winning and losing. Fundamentally, you are kind of right that certainty of (what exists and doesn't exist) reality in an existential sense doesn't exist. (Horrible sentence, I know) It fun to have thought experiments like this. Most modern science fiction is built off this kind of stuff, unlike the old school Clarke and Asimov hard science fiction. Its pretty much the only way we can play around with ideas like this since it can't really be proven by science as we know it.mbrockway

Good point, exept science NOW cant prove it. Maybe in the future.......

I think I understand where you're going with this. In a nutshell, any game that we play for all we know has it's own universe. Yet we portray it as fiction, but what you are saying is that it could be real because it could exist in other dimensions.

Although that are no facts to prove this theory, we don't know if in fact these dimensions do exist (in the reality we understand and what we call "real"). Hopefully, that cleared things up for some people. :P

P.S.- This belongs in Off-Topic Discussions :)

KamuiFei

Didn't Star Ocean 3 touch base with this? The twist in that game sucked.

Im not going to take the time to comprehend this

[QUOTE="Clauricaune"]

There were these two mathematicians called Kurt Gödel and Paul Cohen who proved that if the hypothesis of Cantor's continuum (the one which orders all existing numbers in an infinite horizontal line) is either applied or not applied to theories of numeric sets, these theories make sense. This proved that every logical system contains propositions which are undecideable. In other words: the universe in which we live can't possibly sustain itself, because it defies logic. Gödel proposed that there must be another "well-defined" universe which serves as a base for this one.

Physics also say that there must be at least 13 other dimensions to explain all existing things in this one. But, mathematically, the number of possible dimensions is n.

As far as the philosophical and existencial implications of this go, which questions whether rality is real or not, I only have to say this: if this universe is an illussion, so am I, and so there's no reason for me to give a sh*t.

CosmoKing7717

Well, I was just translating my own reading material (with which I've spent more time than I should've). I read something about that state of matter, which I believe was called "quantic ice cube", and can't appear in nature. anyway, it still proves my point, because of the fact that it actually defies logic. another example could be the amount of anti-matter in the universe, which isn't proportional to the amount of matter, thus defying the laws of symmetry. a universe like that shouldn't exist, so there's something we are unable to grasp. one theory is that of the "well-defined" universe, which, philosophically, translates into the platonic world of ideas; and psychologically, into the archetypal world. there are many postmodern scientists dealing with all this crap right now.