Why can't a Final Fantasy Villain do more than just... (Spoilers)

Why can't a Final Fantasy villain do more than just blow up the world? Aside from Exdeath...

1 - Garland - Kidnaps a Princess, becomes Chaos and starts create "Time Anomalies".
2 - The Emperor - Summons Demons from Hell to Conquer the World.
3 - Xande - Granted the Gift of Mortality, took it as a Curse, and Destroyed two of the Crystals which broke the planet apart.
4 - Golbez - To summon the Giant "Babil", who would depopulate the Planet so the Lunarians in stasis on the Moon could inhabit control of the Planet.
5 - Exdeath's ultimate goal is to withhold complete control over the infinite power of the Void, a sentient force that lives solely to consume all in its path.
6 - Kefka - To take control of the Espers and become a God.
7 - Sephiroth - To become a God, using Meteor to destroy the Planet.
8 - Ultimecia - A Sorceress from the future who possesses and manipulates people from the past in order to achieve Time Compression.
9 - Kuja - Upon learning of his mortality, he resolves that if he can't live, no one can.
10 - Yu Yevon - The summoner who is worshipped by all of Spira. In reality, he is the source of all their troubles, terrorizing the world clad in his armor known as Sin. (Also debated that Seymour would be the main antagonist,a half-human, half-guado maesterwho believes that the only way to end Spira's suffering is to destroy it.)
12 - The would-be Emperor of Archades who murders his father to gain control of the Empire. He wishes to use the power of Nethicite to conquerIvaliceand declare himself the next Dynasty King.

Why can't there just be a Final Fantasy villain who wants to do more than conquer the world, but rather conquer the Universe, and cause universal destruction/chaos.

I agree with the guy above me. The world would only be the first step. Like he said, Sephiroth. So, he'd ruined one planet, and made himself a God. You think he'd just kick back and relax?

Cause it wouldn't be a 'fantasy' storyline without it. :o

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

Or maybe, what you were to believe was "the bad guy" all along. Wasn't actually the villain and was suppressing the true evils of the world. So you, "the antagonist" are sent out to stop him/her, succeed and then all goes to hell and really lay on guilt about "what you've done".

Be it, the population of the planet are unawakened demons or something. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will and the proclaimed villain was actually suppressing it all.

So just maybe, reverse things a little bit.

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Denji

Or maybe, what you were to believe was "the bad guy" all along. Wasn't actually the villain and was suppressing the true evils of the world. So you, "the antagonist" are sent out to stop him/her, succeed and then all goes to hell and really lay on guilt about "what you've done".

Be it, the population of the planet are unawakened demons or something. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will and the proclaimed villain was actually suppressing it all.

So just maybe, reverse things a little bit.

Specific, but that's a good one too.

We should make a game, or at least write a book.

[QUOTE="Denji"]

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

Or maybe, what you were to believe was "the bad guy" all along. Wasn't actually the villain and was suppressing the true evils of the world. So you, "the antagonist" are sent out to stop him/her, succeed and then all goes to hell and really lay on guilt about "what you've done".

Be it, the population of the planet are unawakened demons or something. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will and the proclaimed villain was actually suppressing it all.

So just maybe, reverse things a little bit.

Specific, but that's a good one too.

We should make a game, or at least write a book.

As much as I like the "becoming a god" factor with Final Fantasy villains. It does tend to wear thin. It just has to be changed around a little bit. It could use some creative and indepth story writing. I mean, how many times can your emo metrosexual character loose his/her memory?:lol:

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

[QUOTE="Denji"]

Or maybe, what you were to believe was "the bad guy" all along. Wasn't actually the villain and was suppressing the true evils of the world. So you, "the antagonist" are sent out to stop him/her, succeed and then all goes to hell and really lay on guilt about "what you've done".

Be it, the population of the planet are unawakened demons or something. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will and the proclaimed villain was actually suppressing it all.

So just maybe, reverse things a little bit.

Denji

Specific, but that's a good one too.

We should make a game, or at least write a book.

As much as I like the "becoming a god" factor with Final Fantasy villains. It does tend to wear thin. It just has to be changed around a little bit. It could use some creative and indepth story writing. I mean, how many times can your emo metrosexual character loose his/her memory?:lol:

lol, Apparently XII times. Hopefully XIII presents something new in the plot department because I'm tired of the same good vs. evilcliché that Square's so fond of.

I actually find most JRPG stories to be pretty tiresome. That doesn't mean I don't like them, it's just they're so cliché it's not funny. Disgea was great as it was something quite a bit different story wise.

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Denji

Or maybe, what you were to believe was "the bad guy" all along. Wasn't actually the villain and was suppressing the true evils of the world. So you, "the antagonist" are sent out to stop him/her, succeed and then all goes to hell and really lay on guilt about "what you've done".

Be it, the population of the planet are unawakened demons or something. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will and the proclaimed villain was actually suppressing it all.

So just maybe, reverse things a little bit.

***POSSIBLE DRAGON AGE SPOILER?***

sounds very slightly like dragon age with loghain. He seems like the bad guy for betraying his kingdom but he really just wants what's best for his fellow countrymen. He's only as bad as a man who truly believes what he's doing is the right thing. So if you kill him you do feel kinda guilty... just depends.

This emphasizes my opinion that DAO is the best game ever! lol an overstatement but it's a damn good game.

Now, you see... that sounds interesting.

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

That pretty much sums up Seymour in a nutshell.

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

KH-mixerX

That pretty much sums up Seymour in a nutshell.

Yeah but I can't sympathize with that because I, along with all the other main characters, know he's crazy. At that point, you knew that they'd find a way to beat Sin and that mass suicide wasn't the answer, so he was immediately classified as insane.

Dont ask dont tell?

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

I really hope you've seen Death Note, that's probably my favorite anime of all time.

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Zidaneski

I really hope you've seen Death Note, that's probably my favorite anime of all time.

Hay, yeah! That's a great example, but then Light just wanted to become a God and so I was like "Meh... another guy who has power and craves more..."

[spoiler] But then he got it, so that was a nice twist. Then it got taken away! Then he was caught... but not by L. I was really, really hoping that L had some huge plan to catch Light, even in if he were to die; like organizing certain set pieces to trigger certain events that would guarantee Light's downfall, but it didn't happen. Catching Light even in death would have solidified L as my all-time favorite badass, but then Near... bah. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="Zidaneski"]

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

I really hope you've seen Death Note, that's probably my favorite anime of all time.

Hay, yeah! That's a great example, but then Light just wanted to become a God and so I was like "Meh... another guy who has power and craves more..."

Well its interesting the different endings that happen in the manga and even the movie. I guess it just gets to you depending on who you were rooting for. Light or L. But the way the anime played out you would be sad either way.

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

supa_badman

Yeah, but where's the sympathizing part?

I'm talking about a story that blurs the line between bad guy and good guy. Yu Yevon is clearly the bad guy.

I wouldn't know about XII though... I haven't beaten it yet.

I loved the story ofINFAMOUS for what it did with the villain role. It was unconventional, and moving. Too bad it wasn't in RPG form.

VAGRANT STORY for the PS1 was great as well for unconventional villain roles. That was done by SQUARE before the merger with ENIX right before the PS2 came out so it was overlooked by alot of people. Not to mention, the game is NOT easy, which I enjoy. A tough game makes for a gratifying finish.

cuz what fun would that be unless utter and all chaos is bestowed.... I mean really who would want to stop someone who isn't murdering and wishes to conquer? I mean really what else is there? and world=universe, and many want the second option you asked for, ex. sephiroth you really think he is gonna stop with that planet? hes gonna destroy everything if he succeeded. CoolSkAGuy

Yeah that sephiroth sure had a few screws loose didn't he? Man that guy was a few fries short of a happy meal.

[QUOTE="Denji"]

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

Or maybe, what you were to believe was "the bad guy" all along. Wasn't actually the villain and was suppressing the true evils of the world. So you, "the antagonist" are sent out to stop him/her, succeed and then all goes to hell and really lay on guilt about "what you've done".

Be it, the population of the planet are unawakened demons or something. A "wolf in sheep's clothing" if you will and the proclaimed villain was actually suppressing it all.

So just maybe, reverse things a little bit.

Specific, but that's a good one too.

We should make a game, or at least write a book.

I'd help... if I knew how to program.

[QUOTE="supa_badman"][QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

Why can't Final Fantasy get past villains who do nothing but bad things?

You know what's more frightening than a villain who slaughters thousands? A villain who slaughters thousands with a twisted sense of righteousness that even the audience can sympathize with.

Quality entertainment is making the audience rethink their values and presenting them with a challenge: between the protagonist and the antagonist, who do you support?

Scianix-Black

Yeah, but where's the sympathizing part?

I'm talking about a story that blurs the line between bad guy and good guy. Yu Yevon is clearly the bad guy.

I wouldn't know about XII though... I haven't beaten it yet.

In order to rule in the universe they have to destroy the planet, pass through all the heros to win simple as that.

[QUOTE="Scianix-Black"]

[QUOTE="supa_badman"] Yevon? Make a God-like worshipped being that actually kills thousands but ironically gives hope to them and you have FFX. They did that already, they explained it in the Yunalesca battle. If anything it might be a little redundant. They tried that in XII a little bit but pulled it off in a political setting.supa_badman

Yeah, but where's the sympathizing part?

I'm talking about a story that blurs the line between bad guy and good guy. Yu Yevon is clearly the bad guy.

I wouldn't know about XII though... I haven't beaten it yet.

Whether or not it defeats the purpose of the story would really depend on the story itself, and the bad guy doesn't always have to be the antagonist. As long as you have a central character around whom the events in the story unfold, you've got a protagonist, and as long as this protagonist has obstacles created by another character, then you've got an antagonist.

If you can put the antagonist in a situation that forces the audience to evaluate their stance on the relationship between him and protagonist, then you've effectively begun to create a relationship between them and the "bad guy."

For example, the story of a cop trying to catch a criminal with several accounts of theft and murder, only to have the audience find out later in the story that the criminal's got a daughter with some kind of incurable disease, etc etc. Nothing really confusing about that, right? I think the only game I've ever played that really did this successfully was MGS3 and that game's widely considered to be the best game in the series.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, because you can take a small story pitch like that and throw a lot of different factors in to make it more interesting.I've already got 3 different directions brewing in my head that I could take that story in.

Don't get me wrong, I thought FFX had a great story - in fact, it's my favorite game in the series for that alone, but even for what it did, it was still a bitclichéd.I just wish the video game industry had better writers because all they seem to be able to do is recycle the same old stories with different characters and settings.

I realize that there isn't anymore originality, but come on...