Another Reason To Hate on the Chinese Government

China tried to hide the virus to hoard medical equipment

I personally am very disgusted in the pathetic way China responded to their own pandemic which has caused deaths and economic ruin around the world largely because of their mishandling of the situation. And here is an article stating how they tried to hide/downplay the pandemic they caused so they could load up on medical equipment before the rest of the world could respond.

China needs to pay for what it did to the rest of the world.

Probably the same intelligence analysts that discovered the mobile WMD labs in Iraq.

This is why you want a Trump is the White House. He will make them pay dearly one way or another.

What do you think a Democrat would do? A global rendition of kumbaya? Seriously, how scary is it that Biden has even a shot at the presidency? He barely can talk or know where he is.

The more I learn, the more I realize China treats its people like a resource, not as...people.

Pretty sure a lot of Chinese folks have invested in Trump's properties as well, and they can just as easily yank that from under him.

In the end, do you think Trump would cave in to the Chinese if they threatened his personal livelihood at the expense of the American voters? Or do you think Trump would actually do what's right and defend the people that put him in power? I think the former...

Let's not forget that a.) Biden supported the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and b.) was vice president to Obama, who used more drone strikes against America's enemies than anyone. Biden generally calls people on their bullshit, is confrontational, and doesn't shy away from a fight.

Re-post: in case anyone read my original post and wonder where it went, I deleted it after it got moved from Off-Topic to the Politics forum. But I've decided to re-post so no one gets confused.

Yeah yeah, China bad, everyone knows this. But ya know, blaming China or anyone else for your troubles just smacks of irresponsibility to me. Everyone got the same memo. South Korea handled this fantastically. Australia and New Zealand also did great. Denmark, Norway, Austria and Vietnam did pretty good as well. In this world, you have to look after yourself first before worrying about anyone else.

Hell, the government of where I live are a bunch of incompetent spods and our testing capacity is arse, yet our numbers is just under 3,000 cases with 54 deaths, and we're rapidly clearing the hospitals, so we're doing something right. By the standards set by South Korea, we're doing pretty shit - why are so many supposedly more capable countries doing shittier?

We all got the same memo. Take some responsibility for your own mistakes, otherwise you're never going to learn and improve.

Don't bother replying to this post. I consider this forum my baby, and she is for quarantine.

Trump has massive business ties to China - him and his gross daughter Ivanka. Also, he hired illegals. He's a hypocrite.

Lol most likely this. But china is a communist state and from history, communist does things that deserved the wrath of everyone.

Curveball?

Really? He gave them masks etc.

@ratchetclank92: Oh I read this. Funny one. So the US government has a problem with China exporting less medical equipment and importing more during COVID19.

So the US expects that when a country is facing a new disease with multiple unknowns that it should not reduce exports of potentially life saving equipment instead it should export it away and import less?

Face it, the west is suffering from COVID19 because you were too slow to respond, too stupid (Trump) and too ignorant.

Just compare Hong Kong to New York, why is it that HK has so few infections while NY has so many?

@mrbojangles25: China treats its people as a resource and not people?

Wait hold on a second? Surely it’s the US treating its people as a resource rather than a human. It’s the US re-opening it’s economy despite very high levels of new infections, while China reduced it to small numbers before re-opening.

Wow the logic.

Sad to say I have to agree with you about the US. Economy IS more important than lives.

Seems suspect. WMD in Iraq anyone?

Regardless. Better focus look to the future, how we can prevent future pandemic like this. And no, the solution is NOT to close down wet markets.

The scientists are suggesting something else. And I have to agree with the scientist on this.

What suggestions are you referring to?

Lol 'merica!

@Maroxad: they found wmd’s in Iraq.

You're constant "whataboutism" is getting old, almost predictable; someone criticizes China's government, Kadin_kai in turn criticizes that someone's government as well.

I never said the US didn't, either. Of course my stupid government headed by a narcissistic man-baby with questionable mental health treats people like a resource, too.

I understand your need to defend the country government you love, but you take it kind of personal it seems. Like an attack on you. I do not mean it that way.

What I have been hearing from scientists,

Namely we need to look at our enviornmental impact and how we interact with the environment. We are destroying the natural habitats of many species forcing them to migrate, and in turn allow viruses and other germs to spread and jump around.

While you could argue that there is no evidence to say that COVID 19 didnt exactly happen like this, a lot of diseases we do have, do spread to us in this exact manner. And at this point, I am not interested in pointing fingers for COVID-19 as much as I am interested in preventing another pandemic like this to happen again.

On the topic of that, we also need to look at these wildlife markets. More often than not, the animals are kept alive, and in VERY close proximity. By keeping them alive, they are able to share viruses. The shared habitat means it is more than possible for germs to spread around via respitatory droplets, urine and feces. Although a single mutation to allow a jump between species is VERY rare, the possibility is there, and when there is a possibility, it becomes an eventuallity before it finally happens.

We also need to take a look at animal populations. In Africa, where most epidemics emerge, most large game has disappeared, forcing people to hunt rodents and other small animals, animals with often superb immune systems.

All in all. There is a VERY strong correlation between environmental health and our own health. And this is something we need to start taking seriously.

/end

Additional personal thoughts,

While closing down wildlife markets is a sound theory in practice. It is not feasible as this will almost certainly just move it to the black markets, where they will be under even less regulation. It would be great if the wildlife industry would disappear, but sadly, it is unfeasible and unrealistic. Especially once you factor in land fertility. If people really have to do something there, I seriously hope we continue our developments of vat grown meat. And allow less fertile regions of the world access to these industries.

All in all

Keep wet markets legal. But heavily regulate the wildlife markets (for starters, keep species seperate from eachother, enforce a standard sanitation), ban animals with strong immune systems like bats and rodents. Stop infringing on nature like we do. Stop the destruction of natural habitats.

Whataboutism = Please please please don't criticise me using the same logic, I can't take it. Why don't you call it Trumpism? I'll put tariffs on you, but you can't put tariffs on me huh? Seeing some similarity in thought processes!

No, in China when COVID19 hit, everything was shut, the government preferred to lose the economy and save lives! Even to this very day, when there are days with zero infections parts of China remained closed, especially large restaurants, which typically have 500 plus covers.

It is not about nationalism, patriotism nor love. Its LOGIC and REASON.

When someone says the Chinese government treats its people as resources rather than people, it is illogical since it has not done that at all, it's quite the opposite.

Read what experts are saying rather than the likes of the Stable Genius!

It is countries like the US that are attempting to re-open their economies that are using its own people as resources, not to boost the economy but to bolster Trump's chances of re-election!

Re-opening too early will not boost the US economy, it will most probably lead to another shutdown, costing resources and lives!

No they didn't

@Maroxad: I'm on board with sustaining the environment even for other reasons, but unfortunately I think it's going to be tough to sell that prescription in the US as a pandemic prevention method. Although direct in actuality, it SOUNDS indirect and there's a sizable portion of the population that will condemn it as a left wing conspiracy.

The regulation of wet markets is an easier sell here, but you don't have to sell that here - you have to sell that elsewhere. Perhaps that won't be an issue in those locations, although I agree that it only addresses one potential vector.

Of course, I am not primarily thinking of the US in terms of regulating wildlife markets. I am not even American myself :P Most of my post actually concerns Africa, which is the region that has by far the highest ammount of zootonic diseases jumping to humans. With several portions of Africa Industrializing (good thing), that means their ability to spread the diseases around to neighbouring countries increases as well, giving some of its many epidemics a much greater opportunity to turn to pandemics.

Although I do fear what the US is doing with its EPA. That is gonna bite the US in the back in more ways than one.

Just for reference, "wet markets" are already incredibly regulated in China and in the rest of Asia. The one in Wuhan that is suspected of being the source of the virus (though that is still unconfirmed), was operating illegally and outside of the Chinese mainstream. Vast majority of Chinese citizens do not eat bats or other exotic animals.

You've got to keep in mind you're conversing on a forum with Americans who see everything from an American perspective. It's an insular country and a large percentage Americans do not travel out of their state, let alone outside their country.

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/10/16/new-york-times-reports-wmd-found-in-iraq

they did

Nice, just like how Russia Interfered.

Russia hacks us, i don't think they interferred.

No these were like 20 year old chemical weapons, not the WMDs the Bush administration was talking about to justify going to war

After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program, in defiance of international will and at the world’s risk. United Nations inspectors said they could not find evidence for these claims.

All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them.

In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find.

Chemical weapons are WMD's.

Mr. Bush insisted that Mr. Hussein was hiding an active weapons of mass destruction program

All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all

analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset

No one cares what you think. They interfered.

Pretty sure the Chinese government will lose the next elections. Oh wait...

What do you consider interfere? Because putting out false information is interfering.

Bush didn't follow the intelligence.....he abrogated it.

So anybody that has a political slant speaking is interfering by your definition?

Political slant is not what false information is...…………...

Hacking the Democrats and getting that information released to hurt a specific candidate (Hillary) is interference. Running multi-million dollar disinformation campaigns while posting as Americans to help one candidate is foreign interference. This is dictionary definitions he is getting wrong.

That fact was determined by the GOP Senate, GOP DOJ, and CIA/FBI. Of both administrations. Specifically called interference by them.

I was laughing at out how N64DD defended Bush's ICA conclusion of WMDs but does a 180* on the confirmed ICA conclusion of Interference. He is so politically tribal facts get altered.

Why are people discussing about war in Iraq? Is this related to China or going to be related to China in some way?

@LJS9502_basic: that went right over your head.

@n64dd: Errr... no they didn’t.

I can’t even believe you think they did, it’s a well known fact. Clearly pointed out by every investigation in the US and the UK!

@kadin_kai: read what i posted.

Checkmate

@zaryia: Tell me how they targeted hillary and opponents with phishing?

I have all day.

@leicam6: Yes, I am aware the majority are American here. But one cannot beat logic, reason and facts.

I find it amusing to debate with Americans on GS, exactly the same way I enjoy watching and listening to Trump.

@kadin_kai: you’re an alt.

Gg wp

You want ME to tell you why MY OWN citation (Republican SIC, HIC, Republican DOJ, CIA, DHS, NSA, and FBI) is wrong? That is quite literally YOUR job.............

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume4.pdf

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

These are direct Government links to the documents. Go ahead and tell me what's wrong, buddy boy. Remember to prove it with valid citation.

What's your point? You don't need to be an American to criticize an authoritarian regime like China. I'm not American and not everyone else here is either.