Biden to start "Ministry of Truth" bureau. Wants to crackdown on the internet.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/28/joe-biden-under-fire-for-dystopian-disinformation-bureau/

Oh, (Big) Brother!

President Biden came under fire Thursday for the creation of a “dystopian” disinformation bureau created under his Homeland Security department, which critics are blasting as just a way for the government to police free speech online.

Conservatives slammed the Department of Homeland Security’s Orwellian new “Disinformation Governance Board” – with some suggesting the timing is convenient given Elon Musk vowed to make Twitter a free speech haven after his $44 billion takeover of the social media platform notorious for selectively censoring right-leaning points of view.

Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley called the new board a “disgrace” that was designed to “monitor all Americans’ speech.”

The board will be led by Nina Jankowicz – a disinformation expert who has been criticized for repeatedly casting doubt on The Post’s reporting about Hunter Biden’s laptop.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said she didn’t have details on the board’s role, or its executive director, during her Thursday press briefing, but said President Biden supported the effort.

“We know that there has been a range of disinformation out there about a range of topics — I mean, including COVID, for example, and also elections and eligibility,” Psaki said. “But I will check and see if there’s more specifics.”

The backlash over the creation of the board came as the Biden administration also unveiled an international “Declaration for the Future of the Internet” with 50 other countries on Thursday that endorsed efforts to also curb online “disinformation” and “harassment.”

The document outlines ideas for “reclaiming the promise of the Internet” and US officials described it as an effort to counter the practices of countries including China and Russia.

It notably doesn’t mention domestic US struggles over internet freedom, such as politically motivated censorship of news stories by private companies and alleged illegal government mass surveillance.

The term disinformation has been used to censor content that later gains broad acceptance — such as The Post’s reporting on documents from Hunter Biden’s laptop, which Twitter blocked and Facebook throttled, and speculation that COVID-19 leaked from a Chinese lab, which Facebook banned before US intelligence agencies later found the scenario one of two “plausible” pandemic origin theories.

This is ridiculous, hopefully this idea is shut down entirely in the courts.

Joe Biden is a loser and people who support this are losers.

Free Speech, Government needs to back down from this type of shit

Can you link more specifics on what the bureau would do and have power over? NYP is unreliable.

I agree. On it's face this sounds like a bad idea and the Government should back down on free speech control. It's not like they are a private company with their own TOS.

But I must ask, for the sake of consistency and honesty on subject of Government free speech control, do you agree with this same logic when it comes to banning hundreds of history and biography books in public schools and libraries? Or because the main character has a skin color or sexual preference a Karen doesn't like? All seemingly 98% political and/or no real reason?

LOL. You are evil :)

@zaryia: they haven't gave details on this new Bureau.

"White House press secretary Jen Psaki said she didn’t have details on the board’s role, or its executive director, during her Thursday press briefing, but said President Biden supported the effort."

“We know that there has been a range of disinformation out there about a range of topics — I mean, including COVID, for example, and also elections and eligibility,” Psaki said. “But I will check and see if there’s more specifics.”

As far as your question on books, I need an example. For example? "how to kill a mocking bird?"

This is a very messy topic, predominantly because a workable society cannot have completely unlimited expression which then abuts the people who think only in terms of absolute rights....none of which are actually absolute.

Sadly, the western societies are very naive about disinformation and at least 1/3 of adults lack sufficient critical thinking skills (regardless of political affiliation).

Worse still, you can't even have a reasoned conversation about the topic because the shills on the absolute rights side are disproportionately reflective of the lack of critical thinking skills. It's not so bad on the other side because there is at least a recognition of trade offs being made.

I am sure my free speech is fine,

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

see!

Fake edit: Shoot

But yeah this could be really bad and a terrible way to curb online disinformation. There are more ways to deal with it than cracking down on it. If the goal would have been to simply study it in an academic sense, I would ahve been all for it. Disinformation is spreading rampatly, and as the past few years have shown us, can be just as costly as any pandemic.

Too much speculation in the OP and article. We need more info.

Hmm....but you don't need examples on what Biden's bureau is actually doing to be seen as bad?

Anyway one example would be banning a KKK history book in a red county that had a checkered past in that topic.

@Maroxad: if passed this will be a blunder in the same vein as the Patriot act. Just like how Bush gave the government the power to spy on US citizens, this will give the government power to curb speech online they don't want out in the open. It's all a violation of our rights.

They call it something nice "the Patriot act" "the ministry of truth" then **** us and use it to just curb our freedoms.

@zaryia: let's stick to talking about the topic at hand "ministry of truth" cringe.

Oh I just wanted to know if you were serious about a line that you wrote in THIS thread,

Free Speech, Government needs to back down from this type of shit

@zaryia: so you support the "ministry of truth"?

Not interested in you trying to derail the conversation to be about books in public schools

I answered this.

Sorry I didn't want to derail, I just wanted your quick answer (a yes or no would suffice) since you also wrote:

I just wanted to be clear if you were ONLY talking about this Biden initiative, and disagree with that sentence elsewhere. A very simple query based off of a sentence YOU wrote in the OP.

Just clarify next time. Be specific.

If, it is portrayed as New York Post describes it, it would be even worse than the patriot act imo.

That said, I looked more into it, and it seems to only really target bad actors (which is to say, foreign agents looking to infiltrate and make the citizens turn against themselves). Which would make sense given that it is in DHS. However, we both know this could very much be nothing more than... corporate speak, for lack of better words.

This is alarming news, but I don't think I can derive more conclusions from this until we have more information.

https://about.bgov.com/news/republicans-call-disinformation-board-dangerous-censorship/

Focus on ‘Bad Actors’

Mayorkas is scheduled to testify before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee next week. Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio), the panel’s ranking member, said he looked forward to pressing Mayorkas on the new board.

Portman noted he helped author a law to help allies combat disinformation abroad, but doesn’t believe the U.S. should turn such tools on Americans. “Our focus should be on bad actors like Russia and China, not our own citizens,” he said in a statement.

Republicans also took issue with the panel’s leadership. Wilson Center disinformation fellow Nina Jankowicz announced in a tweet Wednesday that she will serve as the board’s executive director. Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) called her “a beacon of misinformation online” in a letter to Mayorkas.

DHS didn’t respond to a request for comment.

The last paragraph/sentence here is pretty alarming too.

Hmm interesting. If it's only malicious Chinese/Russian actors clearly sponsored by their governments (as it usually is the case) I personally wouldn't see the issue.

I like Elon's idea of authenticating all human users better to be honest. You can say what you want without restriction, but your real name will be attached to it, so you have to deal with the consequences.

@appariti0n: Their are SIGNIFICANT downsides to that idea that disproportionately impact political dissidents and lgbtq people.

It needs to be done. That's one of the biggest challenges liberal democracies have to try to find a solution to.

Right now Russia and China have a weapon that can destroy us and they are almost completely immune to it, and the only (easy) way to solve it is not worth it because it means we will become like them. Kind of a checkmate situation that allows them to have unmatched political influence over us.

Government is needed to get things rolling but this must be a collective effort. Having a guy like Elon who's highly dependent of China to own Twitter might be the wake up call we needed. Which also makes me very cautious regarding his "solution". Soon we'll have social credit too.

No doubt this is an enormous task and should have been a big priority for decades now and should involve all liberal political forces, military and civil society.

What makes you think it's to curb legitimate information? I'm sure the Kremlin makes that claim too. You take the words of career liars and conmen at face value way too much. Government doesn't want control over speech to protect your interests, they want it to protect theirs.

@eoten: I keep thinking of the Patriot act. The people were told it would only be used to stop terrorist attacks. The NSA just ended up having full range to spy on Americans.

Edward Snowden exposed them and had to flee the country.

Yeah. And how they're trying to portray this as being in the public interest to stop what they call disinformation, we also have to realize the only difference between disinformation and the truth lately seems to be about 6 months, and what has already been called disinformation several times has turned out to be fact.

The funny part is, let's just assume government grants itself this power, and hangs onto it because not enough people have the brains or balls to say no? If someone like DeSantis gets elected, this power they think they support now will suddenly be a "threat to their democracy" the second someone they don't like gets elected to wield it.

I have thoughts.....

1. If this bothers you, then you are probably part of what I would consider, the problem.
2. If you really feel that you are entitled to free speech on platforms like Twitter and Facebook, maybe you aren't smart enough to use the internet responsibly anyways.
3. If you are not willing or smart enough to create a safe space on the internet for yourself, maybe you should watch what you say. There is probably a record of it.
4. I will wait until we have real details about this so-called 'Ministry of Truth' before getting upset. Frankly, the way the article is written is already heavily steeped in fear-mongering, which is a big problem on the internet already.
5. Like with most things, there is a balance to be had between free speech, and idiots spreading misinformation intentionally or otherwise.

At any rate, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I am interested to see where this goes.

Nah, I think it will lead to people treating each other closer to how one would treat someone if they were speaking in person. Too many people have become extremely nasty to each other thanks to the cloak of anonymity not authenticating users provides.

This is true, but what do you do when you have someone with citizenship participating in terrorist plots?

And can also put people at risk from the unstable.

As Libs of TikTok has shown. People, even workplaces had to go private after harassment or worse.

It is called entertaining different outcomes and not jumping to conclusions, you should try it some time.

Ministry of truth? More like propaganda.

Again, depends. If they literally only target propaganda from Russian and Chinese governments designed to screw with us, then isn't it the opposite?

OP doesn't seem to have all the facts so I'm hesitant to engage.

@Maroxad:

As Libs of TikTok has shown. People, even workplaces had to go private after harassment or worse.

Who are we talking about here? Taylor Lorenz?

Libsoftiktok did nothing more than repost ramblings from people on the far left, that were put up voluntarily. And if you're a teacher/librarian doing stuff behind parents' backs that you don't want them to know about, maybe posting it on tiktok isn't the best move?

/shrug.

Libsoftiktok has posted the names and workplaces of people, and many of the stuff she uploads is completely unrelated to their actual work.

What libsoftiktok is doing is nothing but cancel culture and violatoin of free speech of others via the chilling effect.

Eitehr way, it is abundantly clear from actual harassment and threats following LibsOfTikTok sharing stuff. That LGBTQ people will not be safe.

Even outside Twitter and TikTok, Transmen and Women are already being targeted.

@Maroxad:

Libsoftiktok has posted the names and workplaces of people,

Examples? The only doxxing I can find, is what Taylor Lorenz published via the Washingston Post about Chaya Raichik,

and then later edited the article and tried to claim she didn't dox. After crying about/claiming she had PTSD over being doxxed herself. 🤣

What libsoftiktok is doing is nothing but cancel culture and violatoin of free speech of others via the chilling effect.

So reposting what someone else already posted voluntarily is somehow a violation of free speech?

Eitehr way, it is abundantly clear from actual harassment and threats following LibsOfTikTok sharing stuff. That LGBTQ people will not be safe.

Only the ones who feel "unsafe" whenever someone disagrees with them or criticizes them in any way. Tho that equates to most of the ones on social media, granted.

Even outside Twitter and TikTok, Transmen and Women are already being targeted.

Based on? A handful of them claiming they are being targeted? By anonymous accounts I assume?

lol NYPOST. It's amazing how gullible you right-wingers are.

1. Brooke School incident on the top of my head. They went private after a transgender teacher explained who they are. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with what the teacher did. Threats of Violence and harassment is not the answer.

2.No, I am talking about the death threats and harassment campaigns meant to silence via a chilling effect.

3 and 4. Simply being trans. From anecdotes I have experienced. This includes online gaming in addition to elsewhere. In the real world, violence against transmen and women have been on the rise according to data. Although this may not necessarily be caused by a higher uptick of violence but rather in changes in data collection. And threats of violence are a good reason to feel unsafe.

Are they looking for paid moderators?

Asking for a friend.

@appariti0n: This idea that Libs of Tiktok just reposted other peoples words has been debunked so many times now that it’s genuinely stunning to see anyone still repeating that lie.

@appariti0n: Maybe disagreeing on other peoples humanity is a bigger deal than you give it credit for?

Ahh yes, the famous "You disagreed with a trans person, therefore you're invalidating their humanity" strawman.

I'm not even sure that qualifies as a strawman. At least a strawman has some element of truth to it, just exaggerated. Claiming disagreeing with such people is invalidating their humanity is just absolute bullcrap.

Harassing them about it is what results in a ban, for a lot of the big platforms.

The issue here is that the Patriot Act has never stopped a terrorist plot. Not a single one, but they have collected information of 10's of millions of people. It was legislation that was rushed through, most senators didn't even read it. 9/11 happened and it got shoved through on a knee jerk reaction to the tragedy.

The patriot act got rid of due process for warrants, where the government no longer needed probable cause to pull a warrant to get access to your bank account, computer records, phone records, credit history. The US government over the last 20 years has used the patriot act to further deny Americans our constitutional rights. It was probably the worst legislation in my life time. It stomps all over the constitution and kicks it to the curb. Its abused and not used how it was sold to the American people.

Even the ACLU calls out how unconstitutional this was. Here's a good graph that shows the numbers and effectiveness at "safety". Because that's how it was sold to the American people. We need this for "safety", right after 9/11...

What it turned into, was the US government getting the right to monitor and collect data of any person they wanted without having to show probable cause. Its a huge violation to the 4th amendment.

Ron Paul spoke a lot on how unconstitutional the patriot act was and how it violated the liberty of the American people. Listening to both him and Edward Snowden on what the NSA was doing all day really shined light on how "The Patriot Act" is a really just a power grab for the federal government to search anyone without probable cause. It should have never passed, its straight up unconstitutional. Its a failure and it only got through because of the emotional knee jerk reaction to 9/11.

Timestamp 1:50. Really like that comparison he gave. What we give up in liberties for this false sense of security is a bad deal.

The benefits just aren't there, they aren't stopping terrorists, they are just collecting all of our date and violating the 4th amendment on everyday innocent civilians.

Show me where you read "This can only be used to target misinformation from Russia and the US Mexico border."

Is this in writing? Can you prove this is the only way this will be used. I guarantee you that is not the only thing this government agency will be doing.

I'm not saying the Private Sector HAS to support free speech. That's not even the topic here... This is Homeland Security, this is a government agency.. giving itself the power to determine what's false and true online? and who's making that call? Who gets to decide by the government what's false and true?? Who gets to decide what's misinformation???And if the government decides something is misinformation...Does that give them the power to censor it or remove it???? Do you not see any problem here????

I'm not crazy, this is absolutely ridiculous. This is overstepping by the government big time. Its up to readers to make their judgment calls and the government has no place in controlling information online based on what they consider to be incorrect or false... NOT THIER JOB what a bunch of bs. You don't find it odd that in the same week Elon bought one of the largest Social media networks claiming to make it open source and more accepting to free speech.... that then the government announces they are creating a government branch to fight online "misinformation". Don't you find the timing here kind of odd?? and you really think this is only going to be used against Russia? That's as foolish as believing the Patriot Act would only surveillance terrorists.

I hope all red blooded Billy Joel fans stand up against this trash.

before knee-jerking reaction based on a post article, i'd like more info on what the bureau is actually empowered to do.

are they simply monitoring and reporting? can they somehow actively remove content? under what law? etc.....

reporting to who?? Is the government going to report somebody to the government over "misinformation"

what an arbitrary word...misinformation. Yeah I'm sure the government wont abuse that...again who determines the misinformation... the government smh.. is the government going to be moderators of the internet now lol?

This relationship between Americans and the US government is getting Toxic.

rise up Joel fans, rise up

@sargentd: You should defend the abolishment of every law because the government might abuse it.

Such a basic way of looking at things. Any system will be abused by anyone, that's just the way things are, but that's an extremely intellectually dishonest way to form any argument. Better stop with elections because government might abuse it... Oh wait.

Your government, and western governments in general, are responsible of creating the most healthy, wealthy and free societies in human history. Be it Trump or Clinton, left or right. This toxic post social media paranoia is self-destructive. Don't be a partisan fundamentalist.

Something as big and influential as the internet should not exist outside reality, society and law. Your elected representatives should absolutely be involved.

Are you seriously that naive to think the government wants to control the flow of information for your benefit? The same people who engage in insider trading, and invest in the markets they regulate are really going to use government powers to help you? Give me a break. Don't be a statist.

Well Trump was a president of lies. It is not like it can be anything worse than that, right?