Florida Law Restoring The Vote To Felons Takes Effect

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/08/683108763/florida-law-restoring-the-vote-to-former-felons-takes-effect

NPR's embedded did a story on this describing the draconian method of getting your right to vote back after being committed of a felony and having served your time. This involved asking a commission consisting of the governor (currently Rick Scott) and (I think) 2 other people for your right to vote back. They would then make a "moral" decision based on nothing more than how they felt about the situation on whether or not you would be allowed to vote again. "Oddly" this meant far more white men from conservative-leaning districts would get the right to vote back, and everyone else was basically screwed.

Considering how tight elections have been, having another 1.5 million voters in the mix may significantly effect elections going forward for the state of Florida, and, frankly, giving people the right to vote back after having served their time is just the right thing to do.

"giving people the right to vote back after having served their time is just the right thing to do."

Agreed.

Good. It's not like they don't take their tax money. That should change the landscape in Florida as well.

Will be interesting to see how long it will take before these people are behind bars again.

But bad that they now get it back, if you are a criminal you have clearly said no to being a part of society.

These are people that have already served their time and repayed their debt to society. Hence, your argument is bullshit.

Don't mind Jacanuk, he loves opressing minorities note how despite them serving their sentence he still wants them to remain behind bars? He probably thinks all of them are black and deserve it.

Does it remove the fact that the chose to be criminal in the first place?

But to be clear I don´t mean they never should get it back, I have a problem with them getting it back as soon as they are released from prison since most have not served the full time.

Often times, there are situations where people get entrapped or break a law without even knowing the law even existed. It's too simplistic to state that people "choose" to be criminals. Yes, people do bad things purposely but there are people who don't know what they gotten themselves into.

Like others have stated: Once they did the time, their rights should be restored. The whole point is to reduce recidivism by getting these people part of society instead of alienating them. If we choose to do what you want and alienate because of past mistakes, despite serving their time, the cycle only repeats itself. This isn't a liberal fantasy, it's reality. Countries with low recidivism rates often have it where they do restore a former criminal's rights and restore their ability to be welcome back into society.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to get at.

You sure have a lot of bad excuses for why some people choose to break the law, "Entrapped" "not knowing they are breaking a law"

And this is not kids we are dealing with who have taken an extra cookie from the cupboard, they pick a life of crime as opposed to being normal like most other people.

So your liberal tearfest, is not working here.

@Jacanuk: I don't personally care whether or not they chose to be part of something they shouldn't have or whether it was through no fault of their own, if they have served their time and pay their debt they should get their fucking rights back regardless of whether or not you happen to think they should be able to vote. And yes essentially they're no longer a criminal once they have served their time.

@Jacanuk: "No taxation without representation."

The Founding Fathers would be proud.

The last bit is the problem, if you don´t have consequences it´s like with kids, they do not learn from their mistakes.

If someone can break the law and become a criminal with no consequences others may not learn anything and stop before they become a burden on society.

So I do care about allowing felons to vote, voting is a privilege, not a right and if you choose to go outside the norm, you should be met with severe consequences.

@Jacanuk: "So I do care about allowing felons to vote, voting is a privilege, not a right"

Jesus Christ.

Nice hyperboles, first the badly done "taxation" and then this.

So are you going to go with "I'm rubber, you're glue" next? just to keep it consistent.

@Jacanuk: I quoted you. How is that hyperbole?

You did no such thing.

So someone with an addiction who served his time and is clean now doesn't deserve to be in society. Exactly why I consider the republican party to be selfish. Their attitude shows through.........

Selfish? nah just not a fan of a mother-state where there are no consequences.

False. You make excuses for everything trump does and don't believe their should be consequences for his actions.

The consequences are jail time, community service, etc. During the time they are in jail or when they still have hours of service left to do their right to vote can be removed. After it's done however they have suffered the consequences and need to get back to normal life. I don't see how you can think that they didn't suffer consequences in that situation.

Are you just trolling today?

@Jacanuk: I literally copied and pasted it from your post. It's still there as of my typing this.

Isn't time in jail a consequence of breaking the law and considered a punishment?

He's got a big ass point there Jac. You make any and all excuses for republicans and Trump like they're your perfect little kids that can do no wrong in your eyes.

I think you may have recently committed a felony by getting high. We should definitely be taking your right to vote away.

Yes, the consequences are among other things a certain amount of jail time which is 80-90% is less time than their conviction since there is a thing called early parole.

So either court are handing out sentences that are way too long or you have a person who did not serve the full time and by that did not repay his debt to society for their crimes. Which is my point, early parolees should not get their voting rights restored until the full term is up.

So you claim you did not write the JC and the taxation comment?

@Jacanuk: The taxation quote is one of the most famous quotes from us history. I thought you'd recognize it.

I don't know what you mean by 'jc"

Edit: You mean my "Jesus Christ" reaction? That was my reaction to your quote.

This conversation is surreal.

You are correct this conversation is surreal when you claim to not say something and then admit you did.

But at least it´s back to my response to your hyperboles.

Next time try with actual arguments instead of one-liners.

A person who says "Jesus Christ" in exasperation at idiocy is somehow being hyperbolic now?

This convo is so weird that I can't wait to see where it will go next. Please continue.

"80-90% is less time than their conviction since there is a thing called early parole."

Yes, that's a legal decision based on good behaviour. It's not really controversial.

"So either court are handing out sentences that are way too long"

Yes, that's the point of early parole, you exceeded expectations in being a good citizen and it was decided that your sentence is way too long.

"or you have a person who did not serve the full time and by that did not repay his debt to society"

They did, they served it by being better than expected.

"Which is my point, early parolees should not get their voting rights restored until the full term is up."

Cool, you never said that though when you were claiming that there were no consequences. Of course they did face consequences, you just don't seem to believe in early parole. And because you are just now bringing it up I suspect that you only thought of this now in the way people do when they feel backed into a corner in an argument that they got into when they felt that they had a legitamite view at the beginning and realized that they do not.

Also, this doesn't apply to tons of people in the Florida situation. They had to wait 7 plus years after getting out of jail so Rick Scott could tell them no, and then they would have to wait several more years to go through the process again where Rick Scott would once again tell them no based on nothing more than how he (and two others) personally felt about the situation. And they would regularly base that feeling on whether or not you attend church, which church it was, and basically if they thought you would vote for or against them.

Yes, it´s a decision but it goes against your idea that they have served their time. Do you know some of the reasons behind early parole? it´s not just altruistic reasons.

And no it´s not because they exceeded expectations.

Also again no they did not face the full consequence of their crimes, they faced some of it. And I brought it up because my initial comment lacked the proper context. So no you did not back me into a corner.

And the process in Florida may seem unreasonable but until now that is what the people wanted so democracy worked, like now while I do not agree with the decision I respect the fact that a majority of people voted to end it and give back their voting privilege.

Look, if a person completes his/her sentence, why do you want to make their lives harder? The fact is, and as Ben Sharpiro says, "facts don't care about your feelings," that recidivism goes up when you make reentry into society difficult, thus continuing the cycle of crime and violence. This isn't some bullshit liberal conspiracy, this is reality that has been studied numerous times and when states and countries have made it easier for those who have completed to reenter society, the chances of them committing another crime is lower.

I'm sorry you're emotional about this particular issue and that you're offended about people getting their rights back to vote. If this country's democratic-republican values offend you, I suggest you move to Russia, China, or North Korea where the concepts of democracy is foreign and considered a detriment to dictatorial values that you like to espouse.

This went exactly like expected.

To be fair what did you expect when there are people who post one liners because they can´t deal with the fact that people disagree with them.

Life harder? how is not voting making their life harder? Also, they are the ones who decided to break the law and by that make their own lives harder.

But I am not emotional but you seem to be, again while I disagree with them getting it back before their time is up, I respect democracy and democracy have spoken. Opposite you and the left, I don´t have a problem with democracy.

And they served their time. They didn't get a life sentence.

My favorite part of this conversation was when, after having your own words reflected back to you, you found them so disgusting that you called them hyperbole and failed to recognize them as your own.

I don't think they should get their right to vote restored while on parole. This may already be in the law. Just stating my position.

I don't think they should get their right to vote restored immediately. I think they should have to keep out of trouble for some period after their sentence is completed. Maybe 5 years? They need to show the rest of society they have some commitment to not being a lifelong criminal POS before we give them back their vote.

I think there needs to be a provision that prevents repeat offenders from ever getting their rights back. Maybe after your 2nd violent felony, or your 3rd felony property crime.

I am also in favor of some process for restoring their second amendment right to purchase and own a firearm. But I would want that process to be even more stringent and difficult to complete.

I think you should also show us you are not going to be a lifelong felon.

Do you have a serious point to make here? I'm honestly not sure.

Or is this your typical no-effort cheap shot post?

If you've served your time you should be able to vote, period. To state otherwise is cruel and defies logic. I have yet to hear a sound decision as to why we should keep them from voting other than, 'Well I just think so'.

There's consequences for committing serious crimes (felonies). It should remain an ad hoc basis for restoring the right to vote; not a blanket approval. Doesn't surprise me to see Democrats push for giving felons the right to vote though.

Good, when people have served their time in jail, that IS the consequence. To add anything more is just punitive, for punishment's sake. The goal of punishment should be to deter, course correct and rehabilitate, not to satisfy some authoritarian sadistic tendencies.

There is

Not to mention some things that are felonies shouldnt be felonies. Like with most drug cases.

@Maroxad: In addition to civil penalties, such as jobs, purchasing firearms, and voting. If you cannot be a valuable member of society, then you lose certain rights. It's not cruel, talk to the victims if you want to hear about cruelty.

It is not about whether or not if it is cruel. It is about the fact that it is stupid and counterproductive.

As other users in this thread have pointed out, societies that try to rehabilitate criminals rather than alienating them, end up with lower rates of recidivism

Why are you in favor of policies that prevent people from returning as productive members of society?

@Maroxad: I'm not against it, I clearly stated it should be an ad hoc basis. Individuals are responsible for the conscious decisions they make, and the consequences there in. There's an easy way to avoid it, don't commit felonies.

Which is still counterproductive.

@Maroxad: Cool, we can agree to disagree.

@Jacanuk: I think you forget some people live in poor condition. Even with welfare assistance they are limited financially. Sometimes people resort to stealing to get what they need to survive.

Often people want a better life but financially the goal post is always moving. You wanna go to college oops it cost more than you can afford even with federal assistance. Wanna take out a loan, you better pray you land a job in the career you went to school for. Otherwise that loan is gonna make your cost of living even less sustainable. Everything works against the average person that they are merely living for the next paycheck rather than thriving. And if you find yourself in a hole(sudden medical expenses, death in family, eviction,etc) you may find yourself desperate enough to steal what you need to keep living. If you understand financial stress and emotional stress then you know why sometimes people stray from legal means of survival.

I see you have problems with the truth.

I call your comments hyperboles not my own. So stop trying to mask your own shit as someone else's.