Is defense spending in the US justifiable during a crisis?

I don't understand why everyone wants to cut spending during a recession.

It's not so much I want to cut spending, I just want it diverted from defense to, you know, COVID research, payments for furloughed workers, maybe revamp the educational system.

Hyperbole aside, what is the point of protecting a nation of ashes? Of racist, uneducated people? Because that is the direction we are going in right now.

i think we need to take a serious look at what exactly we're getting as a country for our $700B annual dumped into the military to determine if the spending is justifiable. or are we stuck in the habit of spending bonkers money simply due to inertia.

what results have come of it?
is the nation significantly safer for it?
are there other means of achieving the same ( or better ) results at a lesser cost, both in $ AND in american lives?

@mrbojangles25: It's a valid argument, I'd just argue it's not worth fighting right now.

It amazes me that there is never any uproar about the sheer waste and corruption in contracts when it comes to military spending. The numbers are absolutely astronomical and if spent more efficiently there would be so much available for improvements which actually help citizens.

@comp_atkins: I just want to know who or what we are defending ourselves from that requires so much spending.

I mean, I get it; ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. We should stay ahead of other nations defense in terms of size and technology...but who? And by how much?

Russia? They made a bit of a rebound in the past two decades but their military is still not a threat.

China? We rely on them too much for goods and they rely on us for money.

Terrorists? What is an F-35 going to do against nationless groups hiding in caves?

I mean the best plane we have right now for fighting ISIS is the decades-old A-10. Brrrrrrrrrrrt! AND THEY WANT TO GET RID OF IT!

We don't need nukes to kill the world over 10x when 2x will do the job just fine.

Meanwhile, we are getting our asses handed to us in cyberspace, and our intelligence is a joke within and outside the military.

We can't even justify our military spending without a crisis. The amount we're spending, per capita or total, is psychotic. At the very least, we need to halt budget increases, we 100% do not need to increase it year over year.

Yeah a halt would be good, maybe a 10% divert to other areas of the country right off the bat.

The irony of course is that the more you invest in your citizenry, the smarter they are, the more they earn. The more they earn. the more taxes they produce.

I mean there are tons of studies out there that show this, a lot of examples as well.

We need to get the money out of politics. I seriously believe if we can do that, all our dreams will come true. Our nation would be a near utopia. We have one of the best governments on paper and often in execution, it is a shame are held back so a select few can get ahead.

Yes and no. Normally I'd always say that too much money is going there, however you must have noticed by now that something is wrong with the USA.

Watch this part, for a few minutes from 12:28 onward by an (ex) kgbinformant.

He's talking about a method of subversion. He also says a lot of nonsense but this part is of interest. If you want to destabilise a country and render it inoperable and defenceless, you attack or 'guide' it in many different ways at the same time. The reason I'm talking about this is not to blame any other country or whomever. It's because I think that no matter whether there is something behind it or 'whodunnit,' the effect is there. And the effect could be something to worry about.

There are people now studying gender studies. Forced white guiltiness classes. Restricted speech on campus. The attack on 'white' science. The racist and sexist aid programs. Forced gender identity literature. 'Realistic maths.' Etc. Education failing boys.

There are movements like the Nation Of Islam widespread among the colored communities. Teaching about how the white race is the race of murderers and how melanin forms (a connection to) the soul and the ability to have compassion. Widely accepted as something you just go through as a black person. Attacks on churches. Have you seen video's of people who have 'walked away' from 'SJWism'?

Social media has been partially formed into echo chambers, rendering them useless for the majority of people in the USA, but more importantly steering companies in the wrong direction. Some facts leading to bans. It's now scary to date people. To even talk to people if you are employed. Leave the door open at the office. Never talk to a woman alone. Asking for consent isn't enough. Teaching something can be held against you if you are male, the way you sit, etc.

The attack on meritocracy. It should be about emotion instead. Companies recruiting diversity officers. Quota's for disabled people and arbitrary traits. Cancel culture and easy to create accusations rendering businesses dysfunctional. Lowering moral.

The police being defunded, abolished. Rendered inoperable by the threat of racist stigma. Criminalised by the press ignoring the statistics we do have. The glorification of the 'peaceful protests,' murderers, arsonists, people disrupting our ability to talk. The court system being abused for political gains. (Think of for instance about the rioters being released without even receiving a ticket, Jessie Smollet and now Kim Gardner, etc etc.)

The media delivering news based on good and bad. Morality police. No more facts. No good fact checking. No repercussions. Removing context whenever possible. An almost unified message that is consistently the opposite of the truth.

In entertainment the idea that entertainment is representational. That it needs the right political messages. No escapism.

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What I'm saying is, the USA as a whole is being rendered inoperable. I'm not accusing anyone externally. Do you think the USA could function in war time with its society broken up like this? People wasting time learning impractical things, people being hired when they're no good for the position and nobody daring to speak about it, people afraid to share ideas or to communicate or have relationships. If there has ever been an opportune time for a foreign nation to attack the USA or make use of the USA's problems, that would be about today up to the point in time that USA society is destabilised the most, or even collapses. So I am more hesitant than I have ever been in life, to say that the USA defense should not be funded as much. Maybe in a few years when we can all laugh about this. Be careful when talking about this.

Spend all that is needed to keep the country safe, foreign policy is the real issue here. I fear that Dubya's Mid-East intervention has cascaded into something that can never be reversed.

Where is this sh*t coming from given the topic? We started with military budgets and all of a sudden you're bringing up white guilt?

I'm talking about the USA being destabilised. Which includes education. Which means maybe, it's a good idea to have insane military budgets for a little bit longer. The USA is a very big picture. There's a lot going on right now that should be taken into consideration, including how all facets of USA society are being destabilised.

Is the media functioning normally? No. Education? No. Religion? That's been going on for a while. Law and order? Definitely not. Social life? Absolutely not. Power structures? Not really, with all the deceit and corruption going on. What I'm saying is, it's not safe waters right now. I don't know how to be more clear.

All our internal problems could be resolved in a fucking day if politicians just thought and acted rationally, made informed decisions, didn't take favors or bribes, and stopped catering to the fringe elements like they actually make up a significant majority. Corporations to a lesser extent as well.

I don't doubt external forces are trying to screw with us, but honestly it's only because we let them.

And I think you're spending a bit too much time on social media and reading major news outlets. Shit isn't that bad, we are just bombarded with nonsense constantly. The US is not threatened militarily from outside, and using the military against our own people is an idea so abhorrent I just can't comprehend it.

Smart people need to be listened to, idiots need to be ignored. "WAH WAH WAH I don't want to wear my mask" should prompt a response from both sides of the isle to the effect of "Wear your mask, it's not about what you want, it's about getting through this together". Systemic racism needs to be addressed and fixed, but when BLM comes along and is like "We need to break up the nuclear family" they need to be told to shut up. We already have the ACLU, NAACP, and SPLC....we don't need another organization made up by 20-something liberal arts professors.

We need to invest this money in the people and places of the USA, not the military.

You're not wrong. A lot of issues of the USA right now are not even partisan issues. USA should stand united to solve those issues. I bet both democrats and republicans in general want to work together, black or white doesn't matter. I don't know who you would give that money to though, or what places are still OK.

I hope things aren't as bad as I think. I worry about the USA a lot since I followed this election. There's a lot of weird things going on, but maybe that has always been the case in the USA. I always used to say that with a fraction of the military budget the USA could have solved so many problems in society. Housing, infrastructure, social security for those less fortunate. I would like to see that. Just don't let the USA get blown to bits in the mean time.

@comp_atkins: its not. we where warn this would happen and it did. their a point where you spend so much and bankrupt your country.

We are acting like it's still the Cold War, spending like we have some big Russian bear to fight.

Soviets overspent and it ruined them, I imagine we are on course for the same thing. People will become exhausted, tired of the division politicians create to distract us, and eventually when the next recession hits in 10, 20, or 30 years it will be the one that does us in.

Hey now. American exceptionalism will save you. :P

I believe in a strong military but we have one that doesn't require the excess funds which could be used for education and healthcare which doesn't even mention infrastructure. We don't need a space force either. The Air Force already did that job.

Military spending has been out of control for years. A gross amount of it is wasted on contractors dragging their feet or maintaining dead weight government employees. It needs to be significantly slashed.

You got to sell billions in guns and keep whole regions unstable to make sure the US model keeps "working".

Ok, so you just decided to go on an off topic rant then.

I'm not even sure what you mean by 'white' science.

If your Allies would actually spend 2% of GDP on defense you could cut yours back from 3.2% to something like 2.5-2.75%. That would save you in the range of $100-$150B a year.

Below that would not be wise in an age where hypersonic missiles are being developed. I will remind you that the invention of the stirrup and its application to warfare is still considered one of the most fundamental military changes ever and greatly altered the course of history.

Also, absolute dollars is not the best way to compare spending. The People's Liberation Army is the largest at 2 million active duty personnel. The US has about 1.4 million active duty with a 2019 budget cost of $143B just for their pay, medical, benefits, etc. The entire PLA budget is estimated at $178B. Maybe the US should pay its people at Chinese rates and save yourselves $100B on that alone 😀

How is it off topic? The topic was about defense spending in the USA. It's kind of important if you are an unstable superpower to at least maintain a good military. (Science is considered racist by some democrats. It's whatever.)

@KungfuKitten: You seem to be very confused.

Why would political strife within the US mean the need for more military spending, which is something meant to be used outside the US? What kind of nonsensical place did you read or visit that said some Democrats think science is racist? It seems like you are being taken advantage of by a crazy narrative of the US being taken over by.....academics?

@KungfuKitten: "Science is considered racist by some democrats."

Is this a veiled reference to Charles Murray, or something?

They're trying to flip the script, turn the tables. It's the right-wing equivalent of "No, you are!".

See, they can't really deny they are the racists any more, so instead of defending themselves they find something no matter how obscure and are like "No you're racist!"

@mrbojangles25: if that's the case, my patience level is not prepared for it.

that's what they excel at. Testing patience. Trolling.

The jokes on them, though; I don't really get frustrated, it's more a combination of amusement and disappointment. Like "aww that's funny, they think they're owning us, but really they're owning themselves".

It would be genuinely funny if their actions didn't have real-world consequences.

Examples?

If it's a reference to Charles Murray then it's closeted racism mascarading as 'science'.

Well there are Seattle schools proposing to teach that math education is racist. That it's used to oppress people of color. There's the museum calling science part of the white dominant culture. My point was that even things that are considered absolutely not racist, are now being chipped away at. Things that are rather objective, practical, useful. And things that are impractical and useless are being promoted.

Whatever. I can see I am not going to open anyone's eyes here and it's not appreciated. And I don't want to steer further off topic.

@KungfuKitten: Why did you delete your other post?

How is math racist? Closest I've heard to math being racist, is the naming of people in examples didn't really reflect the population anymore. Comparing the math school books that I used to the ones my son has, you will find only typical Norwegian names in the one I had, while his has foreign names as well.

Is it racist as in white people generally do better than black people?

As for science in general... Historically the ones who paid for it had their name tied to a discovery, not necessarily the person who did it if I remember correctly.

You're providing anecdotal examples with no context. You seem to be overreacting to edge cases (if they exist as you didn't link any) and using them to apply to an entire country and political affiliation. I could easily pull a couple right wing examples of science bastardization and do the same as well. But I won't though, because it's intellectually lazy and dishonest.

My best advice is that you stop using what ever 'sources' you seem to be reading this drivel from. It reeks of right wing reactionary propaganda.

Increase spending imo. I know the Left can’t comprehend it, but there’s a lot of evil in the world. Unbelievable evil. That’s not just paranoia, it’s 100% accurate.

Pros of increasing spending:

• More security I guess
• Military budget does lead to scientific and engineering advances that eventually have civilian applications
• The US Military spending is done internatoinally. Cutting down on spending could hurt international relatoins as weapons manufacturers in say... Norway are forced to shut down. Which is not good for trade.

Pros of Decreasing Spending:

• More money that goes elsewhere.
• Current Military Technology is fairly redundant to deal with current and future threats.
• An increasingly globalistic economy means war, gets increasingly less likely.

Honestly, while I wouldnt mind getting rid of some military spending, I would rather have the military spend it more intelligently than anything, like others have said, a lot of the technology being developed doesnt really seem to have any real practical use against any likely enemies the US will face any time soon. But, useful stuff, like the Quantum Internet, I can see spending being worthwhile, for security and defense purposes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/07/25/us-government-to-build-virtually-unhackable-quantum-internet-within-10-years/#542bb30c2b70

@KungfuKitten Anecdotes, especially ones without context arent very compelling.

Something like this, is far more convincing.

that was kinda the point about inertia. we spend so much because we're used to spending so much and any decrease would therefore be catastrophic. that's the kind of hyperbole we get from our politicians as well, particularly those for whom the military industrial complex is a jobs program in their state/district. cut 2% of the budget? "you're gutting the military!!!!"

it becomes difficult to even have a sensible discussion.

@comp_atkins: i know. it strange their mind set

Instead of outright cutting the budget, one could freeze the budget for 10 years or so. That gives the military a chance to trim fat away.

Also, if I am not mistaken, don't make it so that if one group doesn't fully use their budget for one year, they get less next year. Look at 3-5 years trends instead.