Trumpers call for Biden's impeachment, but Trump actually released 5000 Taliban prisoners

@silentchief: there is more than one list out there. Note how I used often.

@Maroxad: The leftist bullshit list that thinks defending your nation is mass murder? I haven't seen Churchill on any list.

@silentchief: Murdering civilians does not count as defending your nation. Wannabe War Criminal.

@Maroxad: Do you think they try to murder civilian's? You guys live in a fucking fantasy land.

Civilian Casualties are a terrible outcome. But it's better then losing your nation.

@silentchief: Churchill bombed indiscriminately as well. He very much went after civilians. Put Kurds in concentration camps, and murdered over 4 million Indians.

And Afghanistan's population does not need to be exterminated for the US to survive. Left alone, and you will notice that the Taliban are extremely isolationist. Al Qaeda and the Taliban don't even share the same ideology... (Al Qaeda adheres to Wahhabism and Taliban adheres to Deobandism)

@Maroxad: He never went after civilians. Unfortunately when you bomb a nation civilians will die.

As long as they leave us alone I don't care. But another attack on the scale of 911 should be met with their complete destruction.

Glad we're finally out.

Glad to see Slientchief finally just admit that he's a Nazi by showing his support for genocide.

@silentchief said:

@comp_atkins said:

@silentchief said:

@comp_atkins said:

@silentchief said:

Lol, the new system!

Bahahaha!

Things will be painfully obvious in the next few years that they haven't changed. At this point I would have a 0 tolerance policy. One attack on are soil from your regime and we will wipe you off the face of the earth.

But nobody is idiotic enough to say that, save keyboard punchers on the internet.

ftfy

Say it However you want, but that's what needs to be said. I've had about enough cultural enrichment from that shitty culture. Let them do what they want as long as they don't **** with us. And if they do make sure they don't do it again.

We tried to rebuild and replace their leadership and 20 years of work was undone in a week.

20 years of work was 1) never really completed and 2) has been unravelling for years.

to think the taliban just popped up, regrouped, and took over the country this month is beyond stupid.

in any case, the world is fortunate people that think like you aren't in many positions of actual power.

It was never completed because the bumbling moron just pulled everyone out.

It hasn't been unraveling for years if anything it had gotten better.

Gallery

You can Google it yourself the map went red in a week.

More people will think like me in the coming years. Unfortunately your mindset cost us 6000 lives and 89 billion dollars for nothing.

you sure about that?

2018:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/08/19/5-key-lessons-from-the-talibans-deadly-resurgence-in-afghanistan/

(2) Afghan forces are nowhere near ready to stand on their own. Although they are the crown jewel of American reconstruction spending, the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces (ANDSF) remain a work in progress. ANDSF commando forces are well-regarded but not invincible. During the Ghazni operation, a Taliban ambush nearby crushed an elite commando unit, killing at least 40 soldiers and perhaps as many as 100. Survivors were carried to safety on donkeys by villagers who found them lost in the mountains.

Meanwhile, regular Afghan forces, crafted almost completely in the image of the U.S. Army, are ironically ill-suited for counterinsurgency operations. They are beset by high desertion rates, low morale and rampant corruption. The Afghan National Police force shares these problems and also has a penchant for cutting side deals with the Taliban, as it did in Ghazni, with some members abandoning their posts without a fight.

The Taliban, by contrast, is surging. Aided by Pakistan, and perhaps Russia, the Taliban appears better-equipped and more tactically savvy than ever before. Even though senior Taliban commanders for Ghazni were killed by airstrike only three weeks before the offensive, the attack continued anyway. The Taliban can also hit multiple locations simultaneously to stretch Afghan forces thin. During the Ghazni assault, Taliban forces also struck in Faryab, Baghlan and Uruzgan provinces.

2019:
https://time.com/5664533/afghanistan-troops-leave/

"The result has been poor decision-making, even poorer judgment and the kind of inconclusive and expensive wars the American people have become disillusioned with.

The obvious case study is Afghanistan, a country that has chewed up and spit out great powers throughout its history. Nearly 18 years after the first U.S. military operations against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the war is still a meat grinder. The Taliban control as much terrain now as they ever have since the conflict began. The insurgency continues to conduct operations across the country, including in the heart of the Afghan capital. Despite participating in negotiations with the United States, Taliban commanders are intent on pressing their advantage on the battlefield. Washington’s leverage is limited — and the Taliban know it."

2020:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54600781

"What we are trying to do is prevent any negative outcomes and keep pushing the situation back into a place where Afghanistan is not faced with civil war, or even less stability than it has now, " says the top US soldier in Afghanistan, Gen Scott Miller, who commands Nato's Resolute Support Mission.

The Taliban, now at their greatest strength since 2001, are advancing and attacking in districts across Afghanistan - despite a deal signed with the US in February which seemed to promise a respite to a nation exhausted by war and increasingly worried it will only get worse."

The bumbling moron that got everyone out was trump. He reduced troops to 2500.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1277033

This is Bidens **** up..sorry.

He left 15000 Americans behind, not Trump.

Yes, they deliberately set out to kill civilians and it was part of the philosophy of Total War. Obviously, you know nothing about WWII.

Air Marshall Harris also known as Bomber Harris. The entire British bombing strategy was deliberately to attack civilian areas through carpet bombing to break the will of the enemy. Ironic since the Blitz only strengthened the will of the British. Area bombing as a strategy was officially adopted by the British Cabinet in 1942. There are many official records of this and the logic behind it. The destruction of Hamburg is a good example.

Curtis Lemay employed the same strategy against Japan. The Americans literally recreated replicas of Japanese villages down to the type of wood used in their construction. Some of the best chemical minds were then charged with building the best type of bombs to destroy these civilian targets. They deduced they could not just drop bombs, but could also create a self sustaining firestorm because of the materials used in Japanese homes. This is how and why napalm was invented. It is also how one bombing raid killed 100,000 people in Tokyo via incendiary attack in one night....more than killed in either nuclear attack.

These are indisputable facts and are a matter of historical record.

Edit: I should add that the only reason the Nazis were not so good at it is that they never developed a heavy bomber. This is also how we came to differentiate strategic bombers from tactical bombers.

@silentchief: No one is left behind. They are being brought home and it's roughly 11000 FYI.

People seem to forget the afghans were your friends in the 80s while fighting Russia. Many of them were armed and trained by Americans. Just watch Rambo 3 total propaganda movie of the time.

Now they’re bad guys.

Its a process American foreign policy repeats worldwide. Here you simpletons whine Biden and Trump its been going on far longer then that.

Depose resident leader. Install a friendly dictator. Give them weapons, have them destabilize the region. Few years later declare them bad guys. Oh we gotta go stop them ! Hello, Iran, Iraq, South America etc

In real war, all rules are thrown out the window. Thats what you call a world war. Do you know how many millions of chinese japan brutally killed? The way the people were killed were some of the most gruesome in human history. It makes the bombing of japan by the US look like childs play. There literally are no rules in a real war. If japan could, they would have done the same to us dozens of times over.

The atom bomb killed around 200,000 people initially and who knows how many lives were shortened due to long term effects of radiation. If they didn't surrender then, the US would have continued dropping the bomb. The only reason the japanese bureucrats even surrendered was because they were too scared for a bomb to drop on their head next instead of the innocent civilians. Basically only the soldiers were the kamikazi, the coward generals and emperor chickened out when its their lives directly on the line.

Tell me I know nothing about ww2 and then say this dumb shit

Yes, they deliberately set out to kill civilians

Their goal wasn't to kill civilians it was to target a major city in retaliation for the bombings of London. The main goal was to destroy the infrastructure that would aid the enemy In war. The goal was never to kill civilians although they obviously knew that was a likely outcome. Ammunition factories were located in the middle of the city and the goal was to disrupt the German War machine.

Funny you bring up Japan but as brutal as our retaliation was could you have predicted a better outcome? They are one of the world's richest nations and one of our best allies. People always talk about the horrors of nukes but the outcome has been far better then any of the bullshit we have tried since.

This is why the Trump cultists are so dangerous, they are always a few phrases away from defending genocide.

The only thing I have to point on Biden is communication, not action. The message should be that it's up to Afghans to decide their future, just that.

The rest? There was a date announced and he kept his promise. No surprises. And honestly, fvck whoever thinks that the right thing was for Afghans to go through a civil war.

And I'm amazed at the ignorance and arrogance shown by some. This should be basic knowledge but usually occupied nations don't appreciate being occupied even if on the surface they appear so. That's why the army didn't fight and major cities had peaceful transfers of power. Seeing Americans talking about that nation and its people like my grandfather use to speak of the old European colonies, like you owned it, it's nauseating.

Then there's the other side of the story with the Taliban having public contacts with Chinese representatives before all this happening and how both Russia and China are dealing with them. Which of course must be 200% diplomatic BS but it's way more constructive than both US and UE, by just saying they won't accept something like in the 90s but they're ready to recognize them in a more moderate form.

Having said that I'm not that optimistic. Even if the Taliban 2.0 are more moderate and decent there's probably millions of armed people who only know war for the most part of their lives which will be very hard to control.

And by the way, regarding Trump. He was an idiot and probably with the foreign policy and diplomacy skills of a mongoloid orangutan but he does understand how to take care of his own interests. He wasn't dumb for releasing the Talibans (including the one that will rule the nation now LMAO), he understood that American forces were out numbered and he didn't want to send more troops in, so he did what he needed to avoid military humiliation or losing his face to his electorate.

Also, probably be ready not for bombs but for a flood of cheap heroine.

And FFS America, you keep acting like a couple ready for divorce. Get your shit together or someday you'll have the "liberation army of China" occupying your territory, for your own good of course.

The firebox known as Afghanistan (at least in my lifetime) goes back to at least Jimmy Carter contrary to what many believe. Each subsequent president did what he thought amounted to success which ultimately compounded into what we have today. Biden's comments on taking responsibility are well known and out there for everyone to see and to judge if he is true to his words. When he gave his brief comments to the nation a few days ago, before running back to the woods, he seemed to shift the blame which appears opposite of what he preached on the campaign trail among other places. A president must take the good with the bad. You don't get to take credit only for the good because you also own the bad when it happens during your tenure. Lets make no mistake about it but if things went off w/o a hitch he would not be crediting Trump.

@silentchief: The Dresden bombing was absolutely targeting civilians.

It's main goal was to destroy the Road and rail system in Germany... not kill civilians. Killing civilians is an unfortunate side effect of war but is not the main goal.

When you target civilian infrastructure it's deliberate. Not an unfortunate accident and should NOT be done in war. Targeting military objectives is what you do.

In WW2 ( the examples they keep using) military objectives were mixed into civilian infrastructure. Ammunition factories were located in the city. Rail systems were crucial for transport etc...

You target whatever will cripple your enemy regardless if civilians are involved are not.

Let me know when that happens.. as of right now they are still there.

You should minimize civilian casualties. It your target puts them at risk, it shouldn't be a target. Find another way to neutralize it without high civilian casualty rates.

Well unfortunately that's not how wars are fought.

I don't think I need you to tell me how wars are fought. What is your expertise.

Lol have a look at history and all the civilians that are killed. You fight to win or else you are wasting your time. Nations were not built and conquered by playing nice in war... you are clueless.

That's a losing mindset and one that cost us 89 billion dollars and 6000 American lives and over 100,000 Afghan lives... and it was all for nothing.

Compare that to the mindset in WW2 when we actually use to win wars.

You're categorically wrong.

@silentchief: Except he did. He bombed cities. Civilian casualties was VERY MUCH the intent. But what he did in germany was hardly the first time, even back in Afghanistan, he razed villages, speared and cut down villagers and admitted to being all happy about doing it. All to support the "superiority of his race".

Churchill was never an enemy of fascism. He was a fascist himself merely seeking out to defend the british empire.

Either way Churchill being a war criminal doesnt have much to do with this topic itself.

That said, I thank the patience of everyone else in this thread for having the patience to deal with your ignorance after my internet died for 9 hours.

Edit: It seems you now seem to acknowledge that he actually did intend to kill civilians, but are now making excuses for it. Ignoring the reasons afterwards. If the US were to commit a genocide in Afghanistan, the US would become enemies of pretty much every other nation on earth, as well as completely fuel Al Qaeda's narrative of "Crusader States here to kill the Arabs". You would see a tremendous spike of not only hatred towards the US, not just in the middle east, but also the rest of the globe. You would see a large spike in terrorism.

I'll say this, Trump may not have been perfect, he had a bunch of flaws, releasing taliban was one of them. But one thing good about Trump is that he isn't spineless. By now he would have fired every single general and stripped them of ranks. The heads at the intelligence agency would have its days numbered too. Spineless Joe still hasn't done anything

@Maroxad: WTF are you talking about... Churchill bombed Afghanistan??? And did it for the glory of his race? What kinda bullshit revisionist history have you learned?

And for the record I don't give two flying fucks what you have patience for. Your mindset is that of most leftist losers and why America went from the greatest nation on earth to one who can't win a war. War is war.. once you declare it you realize civilian deaths are part of the equation. If your not willing to accept that then don't declare war. You don't pass on bombing a strategic target that will severely cripple your enemy because it could kill civilians. That was the point of WW2 examples since you couldn't connect the dots I'll do it for you. Churchill attacked strategic targets at all cost it wasn't to target civilians. You apparently don't see the difference. And currently you are dealing with an enemy that will in fact kill civilians for the soul purpose of terror. You are going to see a large spike in terrorism as they rebuild and the leftist mindset will be.... to do nothing.

That would have been the wrong way to go about it. Also no one could predict the Afghan military would flee rather than fight.

No one ever said he bombed afghanistan you illiterate. He did it because of the orders he was given. He was allegedly happy to carry them out, to demonstrate the superiority of his race.

I said he razed villages. Why do you keep CONSTANTLY failing to read what other people are saying?

Churchill has a massive portfolio of crimes against humanity. And others have repeatedly shown you wrong in this thread, please, just for once, LEARN something, dont remain so willfully ignorant, for your own sake.

As for the quote below. Glad you are being open about actually endorsing war crimes. Now go back to your pet peeve about how right wingers get targetted by moderations so often on social media. Maybe it isn't some conspiracy against right wingers, and more the fact that you, and people like you often endorse the violation of international laws.

@Maroxad: Except he did. He bombed cities. Civilian casualties was VERY MUCH the intent. But what he did in germany was hardly the first time, even back in Afghanistan, he razed villages

Read what you typed...wtf are you talking about you're as bad as sleepy joe

@Maroxad: No one ever said he bombed afghanistan you illiterate.

Lol OK dude.. go to sleep.

Cute, quote mining a sentence to hide the other half. It was abundantly clear what I was talking about if you looked at the whole sentence.

People would have had a lot more respect for you if you had the balls to actually own up to anything. Instead like a weakling, you don't. You down own up to your far right politics, your racism, your constant reading comprehension blunders, linking sources that say the opposite of what you are tyring to say and so on.

If you read the paragraph again, it will be abundantly clear, that I was referring to going after civilians as what he did in Afghanistan.

Apparently, there are woman throwing their babies over razer wire at Kabul airport, begging the British soldiers to take them. This is getting really bad. President empathy is hardly giving any answers, and I don't think Psaki back from her impromptu vacation yet.

americans are a strange lot.

they overwhelmingly don't want a us presence in afghanistan to support a country unable to stand on its own feet but throw a tantrum when the expected taliban takeover occurs after they leave.

make up you minds!

@comp_atkins: You do realize there are thousands of American citizens stuck in the country, right?

And? They did make the choice to go there.

Taliban attacking the retreating people would be most unwise.

Oh well. Guess they're screwed, eh? 🤷‍♂️

You know, in this thread you suggested that violating the peace agreement to extend the withdrawal date was necessary because a proper exit plan is needed (my post and your response are right after the OP). We've seen there is no exit plan, it's basically "get yourselves to the airport and we may get you out". Now you don't seem to care. Funny that.

Has nothing to do with this though. They don't even know how many Americans are there because they don't have to register. There is a difference between those sent by the country and those not. Distinctions are important.

Your entire quote is here in the thread. You wrote bumbling gibberish that made no sense... own up to its ok.

Regardless I don't give a shit what the far leftist on this forum think. And I've obliterated you with links repeatedly but your lack of reading comprehension and the ability to understand what's in front of you is beyond reason. Do me a favor and stop responding to my post it would save us both a lot of time... honestly I'd rather reason with a wall.

Razed villages doesn't mean bombed though dude. Also Max is one of the more intelligent people here so I don't know why you're attacking his mental capacity.

The sad part is that there wouldn't be 5000 "Taliban" being released if the Americans hadn't gotten themselves so wrapped up in Southern Afghani Politics in the 20 years prior. The Taliban collapsed shortly after the Invasion. Al-Qaeda left, there was no enemies to target except whatever target warlords wanted gone and the Americans happily obliged.

There wouldn't be 5000 Taliban released if Trump wasn't president at the time.

No you misunderstand. The Taliban ceased to exist when they threw down their weapons and went home save for a handful that left over into Pakistan. This was a fact of life in Afghanistan since the Soviet invasion where people would support movements as quickly as they fell.

During the occupation enterprising Tribal Elders took advantage of the American's need to fight Taliban and Al-Qaeda by giving them intel declaring opposing elders and individuals as Taliban or Al-Qaeda for money and access to foreign resources even though Al-Qaeda left and Taliban no longer existed. 5000 people in Jail due to political rivalries now come out as the Taliban when they realize that the Afghan Government and Americans were no better. They weren't Taliban when they went in but they switched over when they left and who can blame them.

well, shit. i guess we can't turn the whole place into a parking lot now can we?

Some moron conservatives already turning this into a culture war because of skin color that they don't like.

How the right wing is using Afghanistan to start a new culture war. (slate.com)

Afghan War Vet: Stephen Miller 'Should Be Held Accountable for War Crimes' (businessinsider.com)

It means " to completely destroy "... how else would you do that now? Regardless his quote was a blunder and made no sense. Instead of explaining himself he attacked me... so whatever.