Which is the better sound chip: SNES or Genesis?

Would you add or correct anything?

1. NES Chiptune
2. Genesis FM Synth
3. Playstation Sampling
4. PC MOD Tracker
5. Xbox Audio Streamer

These were the stages of music technology in their best consoles. I need to list a few games though.

@Valkeerie:I would rate the Game Boy chip over the NES sound chip although it is technically less powerful. Then the C64 SID chip.

I would put the Atari ST and Amiga sound chips as the next best 16 bit sound available before the Adlib and SoundBlaster hit the market.

The playstation and everything after is basically a Sound Blaster as far as I know ie 44.1khz sample rate at 16 bits. It has 24 channels and has four digital effects and supports midi which is cool but is a soundblaster basically.

The Dreamcast has a really nice sound chip.

Its 67 MHz Yamaha AICA^[139] sound processor, with a 32-bit ARM7 RISC CPU core, can generate 64 voices with PCM or ADPCM, providing ten times the performance of the Saturn's sound system.

But it cannot output 5.1 which the PS2 can.

Xbox and everything after is basically a modern Sound Blaster as far as I can make, most probably 24bit, loads of channels and up to 96,000khz sample rate but no midi I wouldn't think.

I'm a bit of a Synth enthusiast and I really love how the YM2612 can sound. But just personal preference, wouldn't go into an argument over it.

@phbz:But just personal preference, wouldn't go into an argument over it.

It's part of my ongoing quest to dispel the myth the SNES is superior to the SMD.

I did just take the time to listen to some of the best tunes and the Genesis could never do this.

EDIT: The Genesis FM sequencer was called 'GEMS' and was developed by Sega.

"Better" is subjective, i used to shit on Genesis sound chip for being technically inferior and having bad sound effects but i've changed my mind on it cus its the same console which has Streets of Rage music.

@torenojohn7: Streets of Rage

Yes, every Nintendo fanboy can't deny the brilliance of Streets of Rage and use it to claim they are being subjective or considerate of the chip. But that is such a stock reply.

The sad truth is that 32khz is really muffled and that is the highest fidelity the SNES chip can achieve so in these days of audiophiles of tech nerds it sounds sooo dated.

The YM2612 is an FM chip with alot of operators, effects and quirks that allow the talented composer more range than the SNES S-DSP chip with it's sampled instruments with less effects available really requiring more ingenuity in utilising the chip than a standard FM chip which allows you more control over the FM instruments along with various packets and envelopes to achieve more range in their compositions.

If your not au-fait with the Genesis music back catalogue I suggest you educate yourself, there is so much amazing music there.

Oh I left out, the SMD outputs at 56khz (CD quality = 48khz) to the SNES's 32khz.

Quality never gets old.

The Mega Drive/Genesis has the superior sound quality, and here is the proof:

Sonic 1: The Next Level

This is "Blast Processing" at work...

The Mega Drive's Yamaha YM7101 VDP has a fast DMA controller that can stream CD-quality 44 kHz sound samples directly from the ROM cartridge, treating it like a large extended RAM. The Mega Drive can then play those samples through the Yamaha YM2612 sound chip's PCM sampling channel which is capable of 52 kHz audio output.

The SNES can't stream from the cartridge because of its slow DMA controller, so it needs to copy heavily compressed PCM samples from the ROM cartridge to fit into its limited 64 KB RAM space. The SNES then plays those samples through its Sony SPC sound chip, which has a limited 32 kHz audio output.

...That's how the Mega Drive is capable of playing CD-quality samples, which the SNES is incapable of doing.

In addition to being capable of higher-quality sampling, the Mega Drive is also capable of FM synthesis, which the SNES is also incapable of. The Mega Drive is also capable of deeper and clearer bass, whereas the SNES bass sounds limited and muffled.

The SNES sounds clearer but there are some games that sound better to me on Genesis like Earthworm Jim.

@SOedipus: it’s been astablished that the SNES has 32khz output and the Genesis 52khz.

32khz combined with limited sample sizes meant SNES games had muffled sound output.

I remember rock n roll racing sounding great on the snes.

Oh, it’s been astablished. Didn’t know, thank you for informing me...

@SOedipus: The SNES sounds clearer...

Oh, it’s been astablished. Didn’t know, thank you for informing me...

Yes, in the post directly above your post and then the one before that.

32khz is by default less clear than 53khz.

That is a measurement of sound fidelity by point of accuracy per second, say.

The wave form, when zoomed in looks like a plotted bar chart and the more points in that bar chart, the greater the sound resolution.

Couple the 32hkz output from the snes with poor sound hardware performance and limited cart sizes and most SNES game's sound pretty bad.

I actually feel a bit sh*tty, dumping on the SNES which is so fondly remembered by so many people it's just they seem to think it was the most baddass console of all time and the best 16bit console where I would even put it in the top 5.

I feel sorry for SNES owning Americans because they laboured, and still do under the delusion they had the best 16bit games to play but when compared to Genesis it ends up looking like cheap toy.

I don't want to get this topic locked so I'll shush now.

As much as I loved the Sega Megadrive, I believe that the Snes had far superior sound quality. The sound effects in particular suck on Sega Megadrive. The Sonic and Streets of Rage Games had brilliant music though.

@pmanden: That's so funny because you haven't provided any examples. The only way to do it is to compare the same game on both consoles.

How can you say the SNES had better sound quality? It outputs at 32khz compared to 52khz.

I might make something in Audacity to demonstrate.

SNES samples were often compromised in size due to the extra weight in the cart from the instrument patches.

I am not intending to compare the two consoles based on technical facts and tests on modern equipment. I am just using my ears comparing the music on different games played through old televisions from the 90s.

Back then I felt the SNES produced some more authentic and cleaner sounds, particularly strings, piano and drum sounds. Could the Megadrive reproduce the music found in e.g. Super Castlevania?

If this poll was on Gamefaqs, SNES would have a score of 99% against Genesis 1%!

Pleasantly surprised by a more even split here.

@pmanden: No, the Mega Drive could not reproduce the sound found in Castlevania 4 on the SNES. That is because it is heavily dependant on the SNES 'instrument'. That is, what all instruments sound like a variation of, which is a sweeping 'pad' type of string/brass instrument with vibrato.

The S-DSP can't do much more than that. Given it can only play pcm patches with echo, reverb or pitch effect added. The S-DSP only offers more hardware filtering, further degrading the tonal range and fidelity.

So as far as a 'warm' sound goes. The Mega Drive YM2612 cannot match the S-DSP for rich warm orchestral tones.

However. As a musician, I would not go back to the S-DSP for my compositions these days as 64KB of sound memory is not enough for PCM music, and the S-SMP cannot read directly from the cartridge like the YM2612 can for it's PCM playback.

So if I was to compose a track today with PCM, I would still choose the SMD chip as it can stream up to 8Mb directly from the rom with up to 4 channels of 8bit PCM sound.

But that would be stupid because I have an arcade grade FM chip at my disposal.

I'm looking into tracker and chiptune music right now and there is a good reason to use the YM2612. It has 56Khz output to the 32Khz of the S-DSP and 6 channels of FM with 4 'operators' per channel. That is the ability to change the nature of the sound wave in four ways, using filters and oscillators. Square, sine, noise, triangle waves etc.

FM can't match PCM at imitating the real world but neither can the S-DSP in 99% of games on the SNES and that includes sound effects due to the limited sound memory available.

The YM2612 generates the instruments, most games on the SNES end up imitating, but in a low bitrate pcm format.

So as far as output quality goes. The SMD outputs raw generated FM music and effects with unmatched clarity in frequency from very high to very low bass using superior DAC unit and sound controller (Z80@3.5Mhz) with complete control of the sound.

The S-DSP SNES chip has just four effects and you have to build the samples yourself. There is no stock catalogue of patches for the S-DSP [citation needed].

https://segaretro.org/Blast_processing#Audio

http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=S-SMP

At the moment chiptune music is in fashion and no 16 year old is going to listen to SNES music when the SMD has some of the best video game music of all time in it's catalogue.

Here is a direct comparison.

As far as an iconic sound goes, the YM2612 defined the 16bit era.

[FYI] A patch is a set of instructions to describe a instrument, contained within a file. I'm pretty sure PCM instruments also use this term but correct me if I'm wrong.

@pmanden: Could the Megadrive reproduce the music found in e.g. Super Castlevania?

Actually yes.

@jackamomo: Darn, that is a pretty impressive reproduction. I still prefer the SNES version though. I get what you are saying about the SNES having a soft pad sound to it. Thus, the console is perfectly suited for Caslevania 4's music.

@pmanden:It is, of course and in the end, a matter of taste.

As far as fidelity is concerned, the YM2612 is factually superior by a considerable margin.

Most game music not composed specifically for the SNES (third party) will by definition have a lower clarity for their existing compositions and chosen instruments with less tonal range due to the limitated sound memory and DMA access speeds of the S-SMP. Considering the memory demands of PCM sound, coupled with additional hardware filtering, reverb and echo effects of the S-SMP, the vast majority of SNES games end up with unusually soft music and sound effects in comparison to the SMD.

The end.

At the time I thought it was mega drive but in reflection I think the snes might have edged it.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/1/31/18205591/dj-remute-techno-album-sega-genesis-cartridge

People in the know love the Genesis chip set

@robert_sparkes: yeah, who needs reasons?

[EDIT] Alongside the YM2612, there is the Texas Instruments Master System PSG (programmable sound generator) chip, adding 4 more channels of (basic) FM synth not sample based as wrongly stated in the OP. But this chip is not under discussion.

It a lot to do with memory.

In terms of what each chip could produce you have winners on both sides.

On the SNES you have great sounding games like F-Zero, Pop "N" Twinbee, Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt, Return of Double Dragon and Rise of the Robots (even though the gameplay was trash)

Then on the Genesis/Megadrive you have stuff like Bio Hazard Battle, Sparkster, Gunstar Heroes, Revenge of Shinobi and Devil Crash.

To me neither is better than the other as such since they both produced some of the most memorable music of my generation.

Sparkster SNES part 2

The biggest difference between the PCM sound of the SNES and the FM of the SMD is due to control of the instruments. PCM offers attack, sustain and decay for each instrument, that is the beginning, middle and end of a note. The middle tends to include vibrato. Envelopes can be applied to the instruments on SNES but the only effect is echo, although it is a powerful echo effect with up to 8-tap up to .24ms. This effect is more commonly called 'delay' in audio production and is quite versatile. Also pitch envelopes can be applied for pitch bending and noise generation for wind etc.

FM is infinitely more versatile and manipulable though. The FM instruments on SMD can be altered in 4 different ways due to each channel offering 4 'operators', which can include envelopes to manipulate the sound using generated waveforms such as square or sawtooth and then altered them using other techniques.

FM is complicated to use to it's full potential but the range of expression is far more expansive than the simple attack, sustain and decay of a standard PCM sample patch.

So whilst PCM offers potentially more accurate reproduction of real world sound, instruments are limited to simply playing, sustaining and then stopping.

More examples.

^ One of my favourite SNES tracks.

^ A version of Corridors of Time using the SMD sound chips.

It is unarguable that the ADPCM sound used in the SNES has a warmer and richer quality then the SMD FM synth. Gaussian filtering is applied to everything that the S-SMP produces which contributes largely to this warm sound.

Whilst Mega Drive is raw and chalky. SNES is rich and cheesy.

Examples of music using extended envelopes for more complex control of instruments.

@jurisalsbergs: why not just vote in the poll?

I expect you were hoping for some fist bumps from your homies.

I think SNES fanboys and girls are nostalgia ridden. I even think they're brainwashed.

If the genesis sound chip is seeing use in commercial music and hobbyist at the level that is does, even being more in use than the Amiga sound chip these days, that is a compelling argument that the SMD sound chip is objectively better than the muffled weak sauce the S-SMP produces.

Listening to the SNES sound actually annoys me sometimes.

[edit] The ISS soundtrack is actually ok on the snes. *face palm* They are both equal... You can get some fidelity out of the SNES S-SMP. Either ISS is an anomoly or I haven't been listening to the snes chip closely enough.

But still...