The current fanbase

Note: I've attempted to write this with as little bias as possible. However, it is kind of easy to blame the newbs.

With the release of Sonic Unleashed, it has become increasingly obvious how incredibly divided and volatile the Sonic fanbase is. As I have been a fan of Sonic's since my early childhood, it saddens me to see the Sonic community as it is now.

Though the fanbase has many divisions and sub-divisions, the main two seem to be traditionalists and, for lack of a better word, newbs. A summary of these groups are as follows:

Traditionalists have been with the series since its creation. They hold the firm belief that the 2D games are the greatest, and that since the series went 3D, it's seen a sharp decline in quality. They despise the increasing amount of characters, alternate gameplay modes, and the voice acting, though most are happy with the first Sonic Adventure.

Newbs entered the Sonic community circa Sonic Adventure 2. They believe that the 3D games are better. They love the extra characters and the unique modes they bring, and think that the storylines are better than Citizen Kane. They are usually younger and more belligerent than the traditionalists.

Now, once Sonic Unleashed was released, all hell broke loose, the majority based on the 'old-school' Sonic gameplay and the beat-em-up werehog stages. While most traditionalists enjoyed the Sonic gameplay, some did not, causing arguments within the traditionalists. The majority of newbs, however, loved the werehog and loathed the daytime stages. Since the game was itself split down the middle, so was opinion. Discord heightened, and once certain reviews of the game were released, there were accusations of bias thrown about.

Now, this is where it just got embarrassing. You can't argue with professional reviewers. You can quietly disagree, but not launch a full-on attack. It's pointless, and it makes you look like an idiot. It was all pretty shameful, and it caused a lot of people to actually stop playing games from the franchise all together. It was the community at its worst, and hopefully they can all learn from it.

What do you all think of the fanbase as it is?

And yet again, I don't fit into to either group.

I entered the Sonic franchise with the release of Sonic Adventure, and so I just naturally prefer 3D games.

I don't mind most of the characters, or most of the voice acting.

I don't expect an epic story from something as light-hearted as Sonic, so I'm not dissappointed when presented with a "meh" story.

I pretty much don't care one way or the other, as long as the game's enjoyable.

I guess I'm somewhat old school. I didn't hate the werehog, but could've done without it. I wouldn't mind playing as Sonic's friends if they were fast like Sonic like Knuckles and Tails were in Sonic 3. I don't like my Sonic characters doing gimmicky bullsh-- like throwing gay ring boxes, driving mechs, hunting around endlessly for emerald pieces, fishing for frogs and especially not toting guns and driving cars.

The problem lies in that Sega is trying to make a game to appeal to both fanbases and it just doesn't work. Traditionalists won't be happy until they get a game with just Sonic running (minus frustrating Wii controls) and noobs don't like not playing as some gun toting angsty c---. Most of these noobs too were introduced to Sonic through Sonic X because Sega made that show with the intent in knowing that kids are stupid enough to buy anything they see on TV. Look at what it did for Pokemon. Of course those are the kids who started playing the less stellar 3D games on the PS2 or GC and I love the comment of "newer games were you just play as Sonic suck." This is often why I say a rerequiste for this site should be that you have played the original trilogy.

Good job Hyper. Your always good at looking at how anything Sonic is turning out. I have played the original three, as well as Sonic Jam, Sonic & Knuckles, and Sonic Spinball. But at the same time, I like (somewhat) the 3d games. Though Shadow having guns was stupid, since he could easily use Chaos Spear as a projectile, but driving cars was just ignorant. Isn't that what those jet shoes are for, to keep him fast? Another thing is, Sonic is becoming too animeish. All the chaos attacks are they're version of Japanese attacks like a Kamehameha or something. On top of that, it barrows alot from DBZ. DBZ came out before Sonic, and the episode of Goku going Super Sayian came out way before Sonic 2 introduced Super Sonic. On top of that, the seven Chaos Emeralds are more colorful versions of Dragon Balls.

The characters act exactly like their DBZ counter parts. Sonic is laid back and nice, but gets serious when his friends are in danger, (Goku) Shadow started evil but was soon befriended, though he still doesn't really like Sonic, (Vegeta) Knuckles started hating Sonic but was also befriended, (Piccolo) and Amy fell in love with Sonic and won't leave him alone (Chi-Chi.) The only difference is that Sonic can go Super Sonic as long as he has Chaos Emeralds, but Goku had to get pissed to turn into Super Sayian Goku, but can use it anytime once he acquires it. Also, Sonic doesn't have kids yet, which is the only other difference. Remember people, DBZ is way older than Sonic.

the genesis 2D platformers are the pinnacle of the series. I can find something I don't like about every game since then. My genesis gets more playtime than my newer consoles because I'm trying to drown out the memories of hub worlds, ridiculous amounts of extra characters, voice acting, music with lyrics in it and everything else that sucks about the newer Sonic games.

Sonic Heroes was probably the least offensive of the new generation of Sonic games because you could just play through it with the Sonic Team and go decently fast. I never played Sonic Heroes with any other team but the one with Sonic in it. There was no point to me.

Sonic Adventure was totally lame until after you beat it, then you could bypass all the extra bullsh..and get straight to the "game part of the f... game" to quote a certain game reviewer.

Sonic Adventure 2 was worse than lame because there were only like 3 stages in the game worth  playing.

Sonic 06 had the same problem that Sonic Adventure 2 had, only a handful of stages worth playing, glitches everywhere.

Shadow doesn't even count as a Sonic game imo. I rented it and took it back the same day. I refuse to purchase it, even for collector's sake.

Secret Rings had that wack RPG system and an unsanitary amount of fluff levels attached to what was otherwise a fairly good game.

Unleashed was only good 1/2 of the game or 1/3 of the game depending on which version you were playing.

Modern Sonic games just don't hit the mark with traditionalists. They're fun to play AFTER you beat them and you have some means to bypass all the extra crap they throw at you and get straight to the fun stuff but those initial playthroughs are a major chore in some cases...

The characters act exactly like their DBZ counter parts. Sonic is laid back and nice, but gets serious when his friends are in danger, (Goku) Shadow started evil but was soon befriended, though he still doesn't really like Sonic, (Vegeta) Knuckles started hating Sonic but was also befriended, (Piccolo) and Amy fell in love with Sonic and won't leave him alone (Chi-Chi.) The only difference is that Sonic can go Super Sonic as long as he has Chaos Emeralds, but Goku had to get pissed to turn into Super Sayian Goku, but can use it anytime once he acquires it. Also, Sonic doesn't have kids yet, which is the only other difference. Remember people, DBZ is way older than Sonic.

I'm not a big anime fan. I don't hate anime, I guess I just don't "get" it, but ever since SA I'd say it does seem like the series is trying to be some bad anime hence why so many Sonic fans are anime fans I guess, but the Sonic/DBZ similaries were getting almost too similar. Sonic Next Gen went the extra mile and used the Chaos Emeralds to revive Sonic HA HA HA no change there then. As I said before, at least Unleashed is getting back to a more lighthearted feel as opposed to Sonic 06 which was trying to be like Final Fantasy.

I certainly think that the 2D games were better than the 3D games, but personally in my view the thing that has made the games falter is more a lack of direction than anything.  Every new game, I get the sense that Sega still has no idea in which direction they want to take Sonic.  I'm just waiting for them to make up their minds already.

Personally, I would absolutely love to see a Sonic game that played similarly to Psychonauts or other games like that.  That game proved for me that a good story and enjoyable platforming are not mutually exclusive.  I'm kind of an anomaly in that I'm an old-school Sonic fan, but I don't think that a winning formula for a Sonic game is just to make Sonic go really really fast and that's it.  That's not at all what made the 2D Sonic games so fun.

The day stages in Sonic Unleashed were definitely better than the night stages, but for me that was more due to the utter pointlessness of the night stages than due to the gameplay itself.  I could never shake that nagging feeling during the night stages of "why is Sonic doing this?"  The day stages seemed kinda more along the lines of a memory test than anything, given that you have to know them in and out to get an S rank and that you practically have to try to fail the ones prior to Eggmanland.

...But, then again, I thought Shadow the Hedgehog was a good game, so maybe people would be better not to listen to me. :P

...But, then again, I thought Shadow the Hedgehog was a good game, so maybe people would be better not to listen to me. :P

GabuEx

so now it comes to it...:P 

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

...But, then again, I thought Shadow the Hedgehog was a good game, so maybe people would be better not to listen to me. :P

whoozwah

so now it comes to it...:P

Gabby, whoozwah and I are disappointed in you. Every good old school fan is supposed to hate Shadow's game for destroying the innocence of Sonic with doing something as lowbrow and tacky as adding firearms. That game is for the tweeners who gush about Sonic and don't think any game is bad. Even if you can overlook the guns and cars, there were the tedious hero/dark missions that had you circling stages for ages.

Explain yourself or whoozwah and I will tie you to a chair and make you watch the entire Sonic Underground series. :twisted:

Gabby, whoozwah and I are disappointed in you. Every good old school fan is supposed to hate Shadow's game for destroying the innocence of Sonic with doing something as lowbrow and tacky as adding firearms. That game is for the tweeners who gush about Sonic and don't think any game is bad. Even if you can overlook the guns and cars, there were the tedious hero/dark missions that had you circling stages for ages.

Explain yourself or whoozwah and I will tie you to a chair and make you watch the entire Sonic Underground series. :twisted:

kbaily

I dunno, I found it interesting.  I really didn't see where people's impressions came from that it was downright terrible.  It certainly wasn't exactly your standard Sonic game, but I didn't think that was a bad thing.  I didn't even really pay attention to the fact that it had firearms, either.

I guess I need to brush up on Sonic orthodoxy. :P

I liked its music, too.

I also liked it, and its music.

I guess I understood that this wasn't Sonic, it was Shadow, and it wasn't about going fast, it was about filling in the plot holes yourself by killing just about everything in sight.

And I don't know about you, but that sounds like a good deal.

My cousin made me watch some of the Underground series. It still makes me wonder, to this day, who signs up for this crap.

Have you HEARD their songs?

But really, the story was way too dark for anything Sonic.Soniczero1993

What's wrong with a darker Sonic story? I mean, the whole premise behind Shadow is pretty darn dark, what with the only person he ever truly cared for having been murdered, so if you're gonna accept Shadow into a game at all then you've already accepted that as part of his backstory (although I imagine that many here would not accept Shadow into a game, full stop).

Personally, I wish we had more darker Sonic stories. You don't have to have the resolution being "everyone died the end", but it always seems to be the case as though nothing truly bad ever happens in any of the Sonic games that isn't neatly and totally resolved by the end, which for me hurts them by preventing the addition of depth both of story and of characters. That's the strange thing for me - there's plenty of interest in the Sonic backstory, what with Maria having been murdered and Gerald Robotnik having been driven insane and all that jazz, but they never do anything with it. It's one of the most frustrating things ever. I think that, for me, was one of the reasons why I liked Shadow the Hedgehog - it felt like a step in the right direction for telling an actually engaging Sonic story.

Of course, given its poor reception, it's likely that Sega has been permanently turned off from doing anything similar in the future. Sigh...

Sonic Team have proven time and time again that using Sonic games to tell "deep, engaging and meaningful stories" is NOT one of their strengths as a game developer. It should be left as it is or eliminated imo.whoozwah

Sonic Team has proven time and time again that Sonic Team sucks at making games.  Has little to nothing to do with Sonic, in my view.  They should assign the CG cutscenes to Sonic Team and then hand the reins of Sonic over to a team that actually has some semblance of direction.  Hell, put me in charge, I'll come up with a game that actually has a point to it.

Sonic Team have proven time and time again that using Sonic games to tell "deep, engaging and meaningful stories" is NOT one of their strengths as a game developer. It should be left as it is or eliminated imo.whoozwah

For those who don't grasp why some don't like the idea of Sonic's deep storylines is because:

A) The series is VERY BADLY written. Concepts are interesting but dialouge is forced and redundant and none of the voice actors are even capble of emoting and all the dialouge is written for five year olds.

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

kbaily

He was, but those were the old days. Sonic has evolved into something bigger and is taken much more seriously.

Much like video games in general.

There is two reasons why Sonic will never be respected.

1.Sonic Team sucks at making games.

2.All the panzy ass Sonic fans.

Nuff said.

[QUOTE="kbaily"]

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

Shadow_of_Kirby

He was, but those were the old days. Sonic has evolved into something bigger and is taken much more seriously.

Much like video games in general.

you...you're jokin' right? what have you been smoking to think that Sonic has been taken serioiusly ANY time in the past...dozen or so years? 

[QUOTE="Shadow_of_Kirby"][QUOTE="kbaily"]

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

whoozwah

He was, but those were the old days. Sonic has evolved into something bigger and is taken much more seriously.

Much like video games in general.

you...you're jokin' right? what have you been smoking to think that Sonic has been taken serioiusly ANY time in the past...dozen or so years?

Thank you Whoozwah for saving me that.

It is now 7pm I will be laughing until 10:30 HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHA

A) The series is VERY BADLY written. Concepts are interesting but dialouge is forced and redundant and none of the voice actors are even capble of emoting and all the dialouge is written for five year olds.

kbaily

If a team is failing at doing something, the solution is fire the people responsible and to get someone who can succeed at it, not to work around it.

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

kbaily

That didn't stop the Sly Cooper series from having interesting, enjoyable stories. That didn't stop The Land Before Time or The Lion King from having absolutely heartbreaking moments. The fact that they're cartoon animals is no excuse.

[QUOTE="kbaily"]

A) The series is VERY BADLY written. Concepts are interesting but dialouge is forced and redundant and none of the voice actors are even capble of emoting and all the dialouge is written for five year olds.

GabuEx

If a team is failing at doing something, the solution is fire the people responsible and to get someone who can succeed at it, not to work around it.

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

kbaily

That didn't stop the Sly Cooper series from having interesting, enjoyable stories. That didn't stop The Land Before Time or The Lion King from having absolutely heartbreaking moments. The fact that they're cartoon animals is no excuse.

True, but the difference is that they had better execution.

That didn't stop the Sly Cooper series from having interesting, enjoyable stories. That didn't stop The Land Before Time or The Lion King from having absolutely heartbreaking moments. The fact that they're cartoon animals is no excuse.

GabuEx

1. Sly Cooper did not establish itself as having a thin storyline for years.

2. The Lion King is not a fair example. It was largely based on Shakespeare (Hamlet to be precise for those unaware) 

True, but the difference is that they had better execution. Hyper_Hedgehog

Yeah, and that's what I'm saying: fire everyone responsible for creating the drivel that has plagued modern Sonic games and bring in people who can actually make something with coherence and interest. I have no idea why they have yet to do this. You can't just say "well Sonic can't have a serious story because they're cartoon animals" because there have already been dozens of stories involving cartoon animals that did just that.

1. Sly Cooper did not establish itself as having a thin storyline for years.

whoozwah

So fix it then! If Sonic gives people an unignorable reason to take it seriously, it will be taken seriously. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight were a phenomenally successful reinvention of a character. The idea that Sonic's in a permanent rut so they just have to work around that is just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

2. The Lion King is not a fair example. It was largely based on Shakespeare (Hamlet to be precise for those unaware)

whoozwah

It was a story told with cartoon animals that was serious and included death, loss, and betrayal. That's all it really needs to prove my point.

my point was  that despite the fact that the method of telling the story was cartoon animals, the basis for the was not written by the people who made that movie. It was written by Shakespeare.

It's a helluva stretch to think that Sonic Team could write up a story on the level with Hamlet let alone something even mediocre at all.

At this point, I'm more excited for the Sonic-like game that Yuji Naka's studio is working on than another game to come out of Sonic Team.

my point was  that despite the fact that the method of telling the story was cartoon animals, the basis for the was not written by the people who made that movie. It was written by Shakespeare.

whoozwah

So?  Someone wrote a story and it was told using cartoon animals.  That's all I really need to show.

It's a helluva stretch to think that Sonic Team could write up a story on the level with Hamlet let alone something even mediocre at all.

At this point, I'm more excited for the Sonic-like game that Yuji Naka's studio is working on than another game to come out of Sonic Team.

whoozwah

I never said that I thought Sonic Team could be the ones to do it.  As far as I'm concerned, Sega needs to just fire Sonic Team and start from scratch.

As far as I'm concerned, Sega needs to just fire Sonic Team and start from scratch.

GabuEx

THIS, we can agree on. 

If you go back to SatAM and the comics, Sonic is capable of a decent storyline though I usually blame them for putting the idea in Sega's head that Sonic could do deep, serious stories but at the same time if Sega was smart they'd hire a few SatAM or comic writers to write stories for the games but as I recall Sega is the same company that let Uwe Boll make a God awful action movie from House of the Dead, so that should indicate Sega's current level of intellegence.

Is Sonic capable of a good storyline? Yes, but Sega needs to get some good writers first. If they can't do this, then they should take the path of Mario and stick to a simple" Eggman wants to take over the world. Sonic must stop him first." story.

Of course this still doesn't explain why Bioware, who can write great stories, had such a bland story for Sonic Chronicles.

[QUOTE="Shadow_of_Kirby"][QUOTE="kbaily"]

B) Sonic is a F---ING CARTOON ANIMAL!!!

whoozwah

He was, but those were the old days. Sonic has evolved into something bigger and is taken much more seriously.

Much like video games in general.

you...you're jokin' right? what have you been smoking to think that Sonic has been taken serioiusly ANY time in the past...dozen or so years?

I meant taken seriously by the fans.

I mean, look at them.

Have you ever seen so much conflict in the sane fanbase?

And if you have, wouldn't you say for either that this is rather severe and unnecessary?

Of course this still doesn't explain why Bioware, who can write great stories, had such a bland story for Sonic Chronicles.

kbaily

I have a strong feeling that either the writers for that game came from Sega or that Sega oversaw every single detail of the story Bioware wrote.

Exactly, it's all Sega. When they made a game for LucasArts, it was God. Now compare KOTOR to Sonic Chronicles. I smell Sega fingerprints all over the script.

Now this does not mean that Sonic can't have a good storyline, it's that Sega is suppressing that storyline, where if you did go too deep, Sega's "editing" would ruin it all together. It's not Bioware's fault, it's Sega's for not letting them write it how they saw it. After the godawful Shadow game, I think Sega's afraid to go back to being a little more matureish for another Sonic game. Secret Rings may have been better than most games, but once again, due to Sega, the story wasn't all that great. I mean common, Sonic wished for handkerchiefs? WTF was that!?

Exactly, it's all Sega. When they made a game for LucasArts, it was God. Now compare KOTOR to Sonic Chronicles. I smell Sega fingerprints all over the script.

Now this does not mean that Sonic can't have a good storyline, it's that Sega is suppressing that storyline, where if you did go too deep, Sega's "editing" would ruin it all together. It's not Bioware's fault, it's Sega's for not letting them write it how they saw it. After the godawful Shadow game, I think Sega's afraid to go back to being a little more matureish for another Sonic game. Secret Rings may have been better than most games, but once again, due to Sega, the story wasn't all that great. I mean common, Sonic wished for handkerchiefs? WTF was that!?

Soniczero1993

You're right there, after Shadow's ridiculously mature game, left a bad taste in everyone's mouth Sega seems wary of getting too deep. The main problem with Shadow's game was people were used to Sonic being fun and lighthearted (remember it came right after Sonic Heroes which stuck to a more simplistic storyline). The same thing happened with the Prince of Persia: Sands of Time series. The first game was rated T, had a good story but not overly dark, but then came Warrior Within which ramped up the blood and gore and the prince was suddenly evil and angry and vicious. Despite the game improving the combat and everything else, people hated the sudden shift to dark and gory. As Yahtzee said "the lesson here is never put your dick in a pudding. You can convince people it's perfectly good pudding but no one's going to touch it BECAUSE YOU STUCK YOUR DICK IN IT!!"

Sonic Next Gen tried at a more serious story and after playing, it the whole time travel story was actually an interesting concept however no one talks about that because Sega threw in that cross species romance which was the shot of Bailey's overpowering the other flavors. Of course the voice acting was still awful and there were still some major plotholes in that story.

Of course Sega's heard cries for years of "Sonic doesn't need a deep story" the problem is, RPGs do. Look at Mario. His main games have very little story but play some of the Mario RPGs and they do a great job without overshooting it. Mainly with the Mario RPGs, they have that great sense of humor and do a lot of self referencial jokes. I always thought Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door was one of the best stories in any game. That one gets rather dark towards the end involving post apolcolyptic destruction and demonic posession.

Sega should've let Bioware tell their story as they saw fit though I will praise Bioware for not filling the game with a mini-series worth of cutscenes.

Ah yes I've played that Prince of Persia. In fact I own it and noticed the differences of dialog. He sounds way too damn angry. *coughKnuckles'voiceactorcough* They went for dark, but when they did it's like they fell into a freaken pit of darkness, I don't remember the game being like this! And I notice how you can rip people in half now. The games OK but maybe they tried too hard. That game also got somewhat erotic. These female ninjas say stuff like "Yes prince, just like that!" or, "Harder!" I was a bit freaked by that.Soniczero1993

Some feel that the creator sold the game out just to get a few more sales because the first game didn't sell that well at first mainly due to being lost in a sea of November releases (once again publishers, 3 wide open months in the summer. hello!) so they ramped up with gore and with gore comes his life partner, boobies, sure it sold much better, but it sold itself out and that's exactly what Shadow's game did.

Though Yahtzee's explanation in his PoP retrospective was better "suddenly someone said 'hey! Emo culture is in, so they went around the office and shot everyone who was smiling."

the platforming and combat were still there though right? It may have been presented in a different way but underneath it all, the gameplay was still satisfying imo. It's basically the same thing you'd have to do with a sonic game. The gameplay (at times) is still satisfying so who cares why you're doing what you're doing as long as it's fun.whoozwah

Well, I dunno, having a reason for why I'm doing something does make the game more funfor me. Doing stuff for the sake of doing it is all right, but I can get into a game much more if there's some end goal in the plot I'm achieving by doing so. As I've said before, that was really the biggest problem I had with the night levels in Sonic Unleashed: not the gameplay itself, but rather the fact that the only point to every single level was "get to the end". They were completely and totally unrelated to the actual plot.

[QUOTE="whoozwah"]the platforming and combat were still there though right? It may have been presented in a different way but underneath it all, the gameplay was still satisfying imo. It's basically the same thing you'd have to do with a sonic game. The gameplay (at times) is still satisfying so who cares why you're doing what you're doing as long as it's fun.GabuEx

Well, I dunno, having a reason for why I'm doing something does make the game more funfor me. Doing stuff for the sake of doing it is all right, but I can get into a game much more if there's some end goal in the plot I'm achieving by doing so. As I've said before, that was really the biggest problem I had with the night levels in Sonic Unleashed: not the gameplay itself, but rather the fact that the only point to every single level was "get to the end". They were completely and totally unrelated to the actual plot.

You're not alone, I enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog as well. It was stupid in concept but I actually enjoyed the game and its story (despite the obvious failed attempts to be edgy). It was a solid platformer that I wouldn't have payed $50 for but I was happy on Christmas 2005.

Dark is OK, maybe even great in a Sonic game, but not by Sega. It's not the series you have to look at, it's whos making it. If you've got the darkest characters alive but someone who has no idea how to execute it, you've got one jacked game that sucks. Sega has no idea how to make a darkstoryline, without going into Final Fantasy territory, and then failing miserably. Elise and Sonic? Can anyone say Aries (I think that's her name) and Cloud? That was the biggest reference ever. Can Sega ever be original, especially since the whole wail thing was from SA? Iblis=Chaos.Soniczero1993

Yeah, the entire time I played Sonic Next Gen, it felt like Sega dug up some rejected FF storyline and cutscenes then copy pasted Sonic in place of the typical spikey haired asexual protagonists that populate the FF series. I was never a big FF fan. I always found that series pretentious, especially in recent years. I hate games that spend more time making you watch cutscenes than letting you play.

That aside, the other thing I don't get about some fans are the ones who immediately boycott a game that doesn't have a certain character in it like people who immediately hated Secret Rings or Unleashed because Shadow or whoever you want wasn't it in. I mean, really, why would you boycott a game because one character isn't it? Some seem to forget that Sonic games should be about Sonic as he is sort of the star. I mean I like Yoshi but I didn't let his abscence in Super Mario Galaxy ruin the game for me. Did I want Yoshi in Galaxy? Yes. Did I still have fun with Galaxy? Yes. Then again it's not just Sonic games that suffer from this. I recall seeing a Naruto game review where someone scored it bad because some character he liked wasn't in it.

Another thing I expected to see were reviews of Sonic Chronicles were reader reviews complaining that Big the Cat ruined the game and one user complaining because you could play as Rouge and Big but not Vector, but that one pales compared to the guy who wrote a review where he compared Chronicles to Sonic Rush. Let me repeat that. He compared an RPG to a platformer and said how Sonic Chronicles was so slow compared to Rush. That's like comparing Final Fantasy to Super Mario Galaxy.

Well see, there are two sides of fans. You've got old-school fans like us, who know all about Sonic and have lived playing his games til this very day. Then, you have newcomers, who grow up on the modern Sonic, with an assload of characters, bad story plots, and games that are so dark and yet are so poorly written you wonder if this was a school play in 5th grade. The noobs are too ignorant to Sonic's past success and say "Oh those graphics suck!" or something. It was the 90's dipsh** it ain't gonna look like Gears of War 2. They are more accepting of the newer titles because they have no idea how good he was in the past compared to all this. A person who has played Sonic 1 is very likely to get bashed by the legion of noobs. Sometimes an old-school fan would get pissed at a noob and then we have a 2-sided fight also known as, the Sonic War. Problem with Sonic, is that unlike Mario, we seem to have 2 sides of fandom. Why noobs of Mario don't bash the old Mario is beyond me, so why are Sonic fans as crazy as rabid dogs? It seems old school fans and noobs do not get along very well. Noobs however IMO are worse in that they don't even like Sonic, they like Shadow or some other worthless character. Now Shadow does have more value than most characters, but why are you a Sonic fan if you like Shadow? I guess I'm saying that old school fans tend to fight with noobs because when we grew up, Sonic was the ONLY character besides Eggman, while noobs have 5 truck loads to choose from. Take away their favourite character, and you've got a riot. Noobs are people of Sonic who I consider, people who have no idea what their talking about.

Like kbaily said, a reviewer compared an RPG to a high speed platformer. Not a good comparison, you might rather wanna compare it with Mario RPG in terms of fun. As for speed he's out of luck, last I checked RPG's are more about story and leveling up than anything else. A better choice would be if he was comparing speed in Rush and Secret Rings, (they both have boosters) that would be much better. It just proves that noobs know nothing about Sonic or how awesome he was back then, and they may never get it at all.

I'm not yet 17, but I grew up playing old Sonic on the Genesis. And I see where you guys are coming from. I can only accept a newer Sonic game if it does a few things right. If there's absolutely nothing there, I refuse to touch it. I prefer the GameCube version of Sonic Heroes over the PS2 because glitches were kept to a minimum, I appreciated the wall collision system of Unleashed since it only slowed momentum if you smashed head-on, otherwise it would skid. I hate the fact that since Shadow, the Spin Dash in 3D Sonics has either been obsolete or absent. I used to use it to get momentum in SA2 (adventure). I have noticed that if Sonic Team took pieces of each 3D Sonic, they could make a great game:

Sonic Adventure: A few different playable characters that come together to take down a common enemy. Unfortunately, Big and Gamma's levels weren't great, and Knuckles' levels were pointless emerald hunts. But if they followed Sonic/Tails' levels, it would've been better.

Sonic Adventure 2: Great dialogue. Every character for the most part had dialogue you didn't want to strangle yourself for listening to. Again, had the levels been mostly Sonic/Shadow style, it would have been better.

Sonic Heroes: The levels were split into "Zones", and had two levels each and a boss, like Sonic 2. The levels were "get to Point B" style, but the whole team system wasn't needed. Stages also lasted 5-8 minutes, allowing for a fuller level.

Shadow The Hedgehog: Like Heroes, the stages were much longer, but featured just one character (forget the tag-alongs). Take out the weapons and crap dialogue, and the game would've been better.

Sonic Next Gen: Levels resembled more classic stages (which the same can be said for the adventures), and featured wide areas which, again, were a matter of getting to the destination at high speed. The glitches hindered gameplay greatly for me, and I hated the fact you had to be switched off to someone else during levels.

Sonic And The Secret Rings: Going really fast. With great level design, again this game showed you need only have a high speed point A to point B level to have fun.

Sonic Unleashed: Talking about the Wii and PS2 versions, it was glitch-free. Areas were wide open, and took advantage of the control system. For day stages, you wouldn't lose momentum if you were against the wall, but instead see sparks. I always hated the character stopping because you were moving against the wall in previous games. Take out the werehog dynamic, and this could've been the best 3D Sonic game ever. Another good idea from this was the changing between 3D and side-scrolling.

Each 3D Sonic did one thing right at least, and if Sega would just stop adding stupid storylines that didn't have to do with Sonic stopping Robotnik, and they took the good parts of each of the past games, they'd probably pull Sonic out of the gutter they put him in.

In terms of fans, I also have no idea why Mario fans don't argue between generations, but I do have to say that any Sonic fan should appreciate the classics for being what Sonic should be: a game that features Sonic trying to take down Dr. Robotnik by making his way through levels by just running. No item hunts, no heavy combat, just high-speed platforming.

In terms of fans, I also have no idea why Mario fans don't argue between generations, but I do have to say that any Sonic fan should appreciate the classics for being what Sonic should be: a game that features Sonic trying to take down Dr. Robotnik by making his way through levels by just running. No item hunts, no heavy combat, just high-speed platforming.

It is strange that Mario fans never have the crusader like fevor that Sonic fans do. If you think about it, Mario has plenty of lame friends (Birdo, Waluigi, Daisy) and has had his share of crappy spinoff games (8 Mario Parties, Mario Super Sluggers) and yet you never hear Mario fans go on about Super Mario Galaxy sux cuz Yoshi wasn't playable. I take that back, I did run across one IGN comment where someone said how Galaxy sucked because you could ride Yoshi but you never hear a Mario fan go on about how Wario or whoever is awesome. Of course Mario doesn't bog his game down with overly long cutscenes and terrible voice acting nor does the series worry about having some overly deep story and nor do Mario friends go poking their ASS into the main games. Imagine playing a few stages in Galaxy, you had fun playing them but then you have to go play the same stages again as Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Birdo and Waluigi in order to finish the game. On top of that, they control differently and have crappy gimmicky moves. Sounds repetitive doesn't it? Yet, this is what the last few Sonic games keep doing.

That may be because Mario is the only one who can do something. Mario is always involved in something and must do the job himself. This is mainly due to his brother being a panzy. Yoshi had helped Mario in Sunshine (I like him too) but it was very minor, just getting rid of certain goop F.L.U.D.D. couldn't clean up. Now with Sonic, supposingly Sonic is the one involved with Robotnik and must stop him, but for some reason, someone is right behind his ass ready to help. If Mario can do it alone, WITHOUT ANY SUPPORT OR CHAOS EMERALDS OR SOME STUPID FORM, why can't Sonic? Nintendo seems to focus on Mario alone. Here's a scenario:

Nintendo: OK, in this game, Mario is going to be the only character in the game, who has to save the Princess from Bowser.

Everyone else: Yeah just like the good old days!

Sega: OK, Robotnik has come up with an evil scheme to make his empire again, and Sonic must stop him.

Random worker: But wait, what if we could turn him into some creature, like a werehog! We'd have no need for Knuckles, and Sonic will actually be able to fight! And we can add these medals for everyone to find, as a little challenge.

Sega: That's a great idea, that's go with that!

Little did Sega know, Sonic is about high-speed platforming, and not treasure hunting for medals or fighting baddies. They've been playing too much Mario and Zelda when they made the werehog, so Twilight's transformation and Mario's platforming fuse to become, Sonic's new pointless storyline! Did anyone notice the important cutscenes where when your werehog and not Sonic?

As I said, it's admirable that Sega tries to make a decent storyline for Sonic but it fails in that it's written very badly and it doesn't help that the voice acting is so stiff and forced, hence why many think it would be better if Sonic would return to a more simple storyline of Eggman stealing Chaos Emeralds, Sonic has to stop him and just say f--- you! if you want a story! Want a story for Sonic? Here. Robots there. KILL THEY ASS.

Though I will say while Mario isn't assocated with deep stories Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door I thought was an excellent story and actually somewhat dark for a Mario game.