The Sonic Adventure games

I'd like to consider myself an avid Sonic fan. I own original complete copies of most of the legitimate Sonic platformers except for:

Sonic CD (I don't have a SEGA CD and that's the only way I'll play it)
Sonic 3D Blast (I'll only get that for Saturn if I do get it).

The titles in particular I wanna talk about are the Adventures games. I don't know what it is about the Adventure titles that people really latch onto. Yeah they were the first true 3D Sonic games and yeah they had some fun moments but in general, there were just too many problems with them for me to really say I enjoyed them thoroughly. Let me elaborate.

Sonic Adventure:

To start with, the game was designed in such a way that you could only advance to the next level after you did something in an overworld. You were required to do this and these "adventure fields" in my opinion did absolutely nothing except kill any pacing the game could have had. There were no redeeming qualities of the overworld. It should not have been made a necessary aspect of the game. It should have been option just as it was optional to play as any of the other characters in the game. The camera, while in the action stages seem to be alright but in the adventure fields, it flat out blows. The only way I even play this one now is through the time trials. Once I beat it and had the save on my VMU, I couldn't be bothred to mess with the story mode any longer for any character except Sonic.

Sonic Adventure 2:

This one was a different kind of bad. This time you were FORCED, to play as other characters. I don't wanna play as Tails. I don't wanna play as Knuckles. I only wanna play as Sonic. There were so many fluff stages in Sonic Adventure 2 compared to actual speed styIe Sonic stages that if I had known that before I bought it, I might not have. I only still have it for collection purposes. There are only 3 or 4 stages in the game worth playing.

Will I get flamed for bashing on the Adventure games? Probably. Do I care? No. Why not? Because I'm a true Sonic platforming fan and these games, esp. Adventure 2, did not deliver the goods.

While I do like having a hub world to explore, it wasn't executed well in Sonic Adventure and even worse in Sonic06. Obviously Sonic was trying to mimic Mario 64 which pretty much set a standard for 3D platformers so I guess the Sonic team felt their game had to do the same.

I liked SA2 better because they replaced that with the simple map screen so you could just pick which stage you wanted to go to and this would've been great if like the first game you could choose to just play as Sonic but the game was slowed down by the Tails/Eggman and Knuckles/Rouge levels. Tails was fun to play in SA because he ran fast and had decent attacks but then they went and stuck him in a slow, clunky mech. When SA2 was all said and done, I liked it but at times it felt like the slower levels went on forever and all I wanted to do was run fast.

It seemed like Heroes nearly got it right. It made all characters fast so you had that high speed feeling for the most part until you started the Team Chaotix phase and you were stuck with tedious fetch quests to find crabs or certain enemies.

Shadow can have the occasional moment of speed if you do the straightforward "find the goal" mission and don't bother with the guns or cars then you can run through stages using your homing attack on foes of course there's the vehicles that move slower than Shadow which are only there if you're bored of course someone said "hey I got an idea! For Sonic Next Gen, will slow Shadow down so he'll have to use the cars!"

This is of course why the handhelds get it right. You can play as Sonic and go fast and while you can select any characters available, they all run fast like Sonic and that's what we like. Why can't they use that and make a decent 3D game out of it?

Secret Rings almost came close to giving old school fans what they wanted. No playable friends slowing down the action. No tedious hub worlds and a camera that stayed in place. It was Sonic running fast through platforming stages. The downside of that was A) the sometimes frustrating Wii controls where it seemed like the game was controlling you. B)there were only a few full size "find the goal" stages that were the best, the rest of the time you were going back through past areas or additional smaller stages not included in the main stage. Finding dinosaur eggs. Finding X amount of rings and so on.

Also I think the game that nearly nailed the Adventure concept was Sonic Rush Adventure you had plenty of fun, high speed platforming stages. The option to switch between Blaze and Sonic. The watercrafts actually worked for this as we know Sonic can't swim. Plus they made good use of the touch functionality. Plus, besides the main stages, it was fun to go out into the sea and find all those hidden mini stage islands.

It seems like Unleashed and hopefully Black Knight seem to be getting back to basics. At least half of Unleashed is high speed platforming though honestly the werehog gameplay seems like it could be fun and has sublime platforming elements and combat. Black Knight is supposedly staying in the vein of Secret Rings and though it says you can play as other characters, from what I hear, it's not forced this time (like the Advance series) and though Sonic's using a sword (ugh) reports say that a quick flick will take out most low level baddies so hopefully we're not stopping every 5 seconds to engage in long, drawn out sword fights.

That's my take.

Yeah, I know what you mean about those Adventure games. Why throw in extra gameplay styles we don't want? And why force exploration on us (Adventure fields and treasure hunting stages) when those things are supposed to be fun options within the action stages? I actually thought the camera in SA1 was bad all around. Even in the Action Stages. It didn't ruin the game, but it made it less enjoyable. I wish the Adventure fields were optional since they didn't make the main game any more fun. But if I felt like I wanted to explore, it'd look for hidden emblems and go sight-seeing in them, so they at least did something right.

When SA1 came out, it produced a strange new breed of Sonic fans that liked Sonic games being a mixed bag of platformers rather than just straight up Sonic styIed gameplay. SA1, I was a bit forgiving toward since it was a first attempt at a 3D adventure, SA2 was disappointing because they didn't learn we don't like stuff other than Sonic-styIed gameplay, and this time they forced the other characters upon us.

Sonic Heroes was a breath of fresh air because it finally got it right for the most part, as opposed to doing wrong for the most part like in SA1 and 2. They added variety without stepping outside the Sonic styIe of gameplay. Sonic 06 (which I consider to be SA3) was more unfinished than SA1, and in the year 2006, that just isn't acceptable. Secret Rings was alot better than Sonic 06, but was very different type of Sonic platformer. So, I'm looking forward to a brighter future, but it's obvious Sonic Team is still hellbent on giving us alot of non-Sonic gameplay we don't need. Sonic and the Black Knight is a game I am looking forward to more since Sonic the Hedgehog is all you need, but it'll probably be like Secret Rings with all those extra missions. :|

One of the main issues I found was that you don't get enough Sonic, meaning there's only about a couple of hours of enteratinment.

Well, the shoot-em-ups (At least in SA) were OK.

But all these side-stories should absolutely not be necessary to complete the main story. They should be fun (or not so fun) optional gameplay modes.

I agree that the Advetures had plenty of problems, but there is no such thing as "The Perfect Game", and if you believe that, you're lying to yourself. Sonic Team has a hard time understanding that if they want a hub world, they need to make it feel that of a Sonic game would, maybe have it set in Green Hill Zone. Sonic Adventure 2 brought back the "just progress through the level" thing Sonic games were known for, but I have trouble calling it "Adventure". The games were good in some aspects, ans if you can't shed light on those, you are not a true Sonic fan.

And I will point out Sonic 2006 was a good looking game, but it was broken. Too many glitches. Felt unfinished. Every Sonic game had something wrong with it, but if you're a real Sonic fan, you can look past it, unless it's something like Sonic Genesis. Why remake a game that was already ported for PS2, XBox, and GameCube 2 years before? To make mre money and scam fans. And that's not cool.

I agree that the Advetures had plenty of problems, but there is no such thing as "The Perfect Game", and if you believe that, you're lying to yourself. Sonic Team has a hard time understanding that if they want a hub world, they need to make it feel that of a Sonic game would, maybe have it set in Green Hill Zone. Sonic Adventure 2 brought back the "just progress through the level" thing Sonic games were known for, but I have trouble calling it "Adventure". The games were good in some aspects, ans if you can't shed light on those, you are not a true Sonic fan.

And I will point out Sonic 2006 was a good looking game, but it was broken. Too many glitches. Felt unfinished. Every Sonic game had something wrong with it, but if you're a real Sonic fan, you can look past it, unless it's something like Sonic Genesis. Why remake a game that was already ported for PS2, XBox, and GameCube 2 years before? To make mre money and scam fans. And that's not cool.

Cloud_765

I did mention the good parts of the games, those being the Sonic levels in both games...and that's it and only in the time trial mode where I'm not bothered by any of the other meaningless crap. I have fun with those sections only but what you seem to come off saying is that I'm not a true fan unless I just turn a deaf ear to the faults of these games and that is something that I cannot do nor would I.

I've only played Sonic06 briefly but the controls were so bad, it made me horribly frustrated and I hadn't touched it since. I keep debating on picking up a copy though every time I see it, I see something else I was more interested in paying for. (I kept hoping my local video store would get a copy so I could just rent it but that hasn't happened) The last time I almost got it used, I saw a copy of Zack and Wiki for the same price, which was a game I had really wanted to play so I took that as a sign from God that I wasn't meant to play Sonic06 that day. Still I am a Sonic fan and have played God awful Game Gear titles like its port of Sonic Spinball.

Still I am not totally opposed to the hub world idea. It's just that it hasn't been executed well. In the first Adventure, it felt very constricted and restrained in the city. Having to go through buildings to get places and the annoying fixed camera that had nothing but hate for your desire to look at things. Sonic06 tried to recreate this but in terms of graphics the city environments looked like as GS put it "someone copy and pasted the cities from SA on a next gen game and gave it a slight upgrade." The cities were devoid of life or personality. Look at Hyrule Castle Town in Twiglight Princess this was a GC game and you enter the city and it's full of various people of different shapes and colors and each person has distinct details.

One thing I've hated about the series in the newer era was this whole attempt at "realisim" and this alternate Earth bull---- the game does. Even if Mobius was only created for the comics and cartoons. Mobius was a fantasy world, like the Mushroom Kingdom you could get lost in. Mobius was this great world of checkered cliffs and art deco trees, full of talking anthropomorphic animals. (thank you Bioware for keeping it "toony" in Chronicles). Sonic should not be about realism. Let me remind everyone that the protagonist is a talking blue hedgehog who can run at the speed of sound.

Sonic's hub world needs to be a lively colorful place with a mix of humans and anthropomorphs. One good example I use is the game "Beyond Good and Evil" (a good title most of you ignored) It took place on a planet where you had funny, cartoony humans and talking animals. This is the sort of world, Sonic should live in. If I want a gritty, realistic setting, I'll go play GTA, Sonic's world should be fun and lighthearted.

Any Sonic fan of a Sonic game can be a true Sonic fan. Liking or disliking games is always a matter of opinion, and just because someone falls into an unpopular category of opinions doesn't make them any less of a fan. I think that fandom determined by how devoted the person is to something.

And I intend to actually buy Sonic 06 once I get a PS3 since I collect all Sonic games. But I'm getting it used! XD

Any Sonic fan of a Sonic game can be a true Sonic fan. Liking or disliking games is always a matter of opinion, and just because someone falls into an unpopular category of opinions doesn't make them any less of a fan. I think that fandom determined by how devoted the person is to something.

And I intend to actually buy Sonic 06 once I get a PS3 since I collect all Sonic games. But I'm getting it used! XD

DocEggmanNega

I own Sonic 06. It's bad. It's as bad as everyone says it is. I got it for the same reason as you, collection purposes.

I played Sonic 06 once. Wanted to kill myself afterwards.

Perhaps because Sega knew Sonic06 was rushed and was going to be unfinished, the put out that infamous demo in the store and on XBL as a warning. I mean demos are supposed to make you want to buy the game.

My experience with the demo went like this: I had heard some iffy reviews of the game at the previous E3 saying it still had awkward controls but after playing the other 3D Sonic games I felt I could deal with it if it controlled like, say Heroes. Still, then I saw the reviews and they weren't bad or medicore. They were downright abyssmal except for that Play magazine article that gave it a 9.5 (ironically after that and several other inflated scores, Play no longer has number scores in their reviews just a box that says "Final Verdict."

I started the demo. I tried to smash into some blocks and slid off the cliff. I tried to run down a path across some dash pads and skidded off the cliff. I tried to do that series of jumps on wires and died. I tired to attack some robots and my homing attack sent me to my death. I was grinding on the wind and tried to jump through a point ring. Bad idea. Somehow I completed the level and that was it. Perhaps other stages are better but demos are supposed to make you want to play the game and it made me NOT want to play it and I'm still trying to grasp how the idiot Sonic fanbase keeps telling me that they didn't have these problems and how this is the greatest game ever. I mean if you're somehow able to overlook the spazzy camera work, slippery controls and long load times, there's the still the vomit inducing love scenes with Sonic and Elise and while there might have been an attempt at an interesting time travel story, the romantic parts were the killer shot of Baileys, overpowering the other flavors. I mean maybe the whole cross species love story might be acceptable in Japan, but here in the US, if you found Sonic and Elise's relationship romantic, then you're probably a furry.

Right, you can't expect to be much good at a game with your first playthrough,you neeed to take time to get used to a game's controls. But when a game is as akward and punishing as Sonic 06's demo, you know something is wrong. Homing attack worked fine for me, but the delay was akward and the camera angles were bad. Like you couldn't always focous on what you needed to.
I showed the demo to one of my very unbiased friends, then let him play Sonic stages in SA2B (since that's the most liked out of the 3D Sonic games) He couldn't tell much difference in quality. I knew SA2B was miles better than Sonic 06, so I figured he simply was still a bit n00bish at 3D Sonic games since he has only played them a handful of times.

If the gameplay and gameflow were good in Sonic 06, I could actually overlook the unlikely romance thing. I guess they thought it was okay since Sonic isn't really a normal hedgehog as we know them, but it seriously creeps me out

I didn't find it romantic so much as I found it sweet.

For the sake of my pride, I'm a girl until the next post. 0_o