Even more proof that the RB position is vastly overrated and overpaid

Anyone that has read any of my NFL posts knows how little I value RB's (and CB's) in 'this' NFL.
*this meaning under the current rules that greatly favor offenses...QB's and WR's in particular

My arguments:
1. Limited Cap Space
-$120 million cap that went down this year (less than 3 million per player on a 53 man roster)
2. The rules make QB, pass rush, and O-line the most important positions
3. RB's have short careers (shorter than most)
-plus you can keep them for 3-5 years on their rookie contract + franchise them for a couple more = no need for big payday
-they often times fall off a cliff after their big pay day (age + desire...or lack there of)
4. The SB
-the last team to win the SB with a dominant back in their prime was more than a decade ago (Ravens)

I usually provide arguments based around the above.

But now I would like to present something else.
WINS

Lets look at the top 11 rushing teams this year (yards per game b/c of the bye week)
1. Philly
2. Denver
3. Houston
4. Oakland
5. Min.
6. Buffalo
7. San Fran
8. Carolina
9. Dallas
10. KC
11. Jacksonville

Of the top 11 teams, only 2 were true title contenders...Houston and San Fran (Houston not so much now).
Only one more really even stands a chance in Dallas
Add in 2 average teams in Buff and Oakland

Running the ball just doesn't win anymore...fans are just slow to change their opinions (always been told 'run the ball, play defense, win championships')

Thoughts?

You say that, but do you know what happened to the Bears, Lions, Ravens, Patriots, Jets, and Cowboys when they didn't have a run game? They lost.

I still hold that defense wins championships, running the ball not so much. Minnesota is a prime example, if they had just a little bit of AP's salary dedicated to receivers, the O-line, or the defense they'd be in the playoff hunt no question (guess it doesn't help that they're paying McNabb starter money to be a backup). Cap space is something people rarely take into account. I've seen that this season with Bears fans whining about being 18 mil under the cap and not getting a big name O-lineman or receiver, but just wait and watch that 18 mil disappear when they start signing people to new contracts. The QB shouldn't be anywhere near RBs in terms of pay, the QB and the best player on defense should be the two highest paid players by a mile, the RB should be on the same pay scale as the receivers.

You say that, but do you know what happened to the Bears, Lions, Ravens, Patriots, Jets, and Cowboys when they didn't have a run game? They lost.

sherman-tank1

You say that, but do you know what happened to the Bears, Lions, Ravens, Patriots, Jets, and Cowboys when they didn't have a run game? They lost.

sherman-tank1

The Lions are doing the same thing with their run game that the Saints did with Bush, they're starting a receiver and hoping a back that should be a backup can basically account for all the running production in between the numbers. Injuries aren't helping there either. Can't speak to the other teams, but the Bears weren't a matter of teh back necessarily, they weren't running the ball at all. That's more a problem of how you're running the offense than who's running it. I won't say the offense wouldn't suffer without Forte, but I do think they can execute that run game without him. Not as effectively, but good enough.

I still hold that defense wins championships, running the ball not so much. Minnesota is a prime example, if they had just a little bit of AP's salary dedicated to receivers, the O-line, or the defense they'd be in the playoff hunt no question (guess it doesn't help that they're paying McNabb starter money to be a backup). Cap space is something people rarely take into account. I've seen that this season with Bears fans whining about being 18 mil under the cap and not getting a big name O-lineman or receiver, but just wait and watch that 18 mil disappear when they start signing people to new contracts. The QB shouldn't be anywhere near RBs in terms of pay, the QB and the best player on defense should be the two highest paid players by a mile, the RB should be on the same pay scale as the receivers.

theone86

... philly isn't losing because they run too much... they are losing because they aren't running enough (and turnovers...) But that is weird... considering teams that are losing usually have to throw the ball around I.E- Denver last yearNo_Hablo_Ingles

What most of those teams is doing is smart. A couple of those teams, Carolina and Denver, I'm not going to count because their QBs are getting all the production. The rest, though, their RB is the strength of the team and they're leaning on them. If they get behind they're not going to start throwing it even when there isn't anything open, they stick to their gameplan. This just shows, though, that even sticking to a good gameplan a great back alone cannot win games for you, which supports what Raw is saying that they eat up too much cap space.

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]... philly isn't losing because they run too much... they are losing because they aren't running enough (and turnovers...) But that is weird... considering teams that are losing usually have to throw the ball around I.E- Denver last yearrawsavon

I don't know if I fully agree about the CB position not being important. You can look at Games when Green Bay shuts down receivers (although they're not doing it as often this year as they were last year), and it's a major boon to them. The Championship game last year is a good example, it was a very close game up to the end and the coverage on the receivers could have been the difference. Then look at teams like Minnesota and Detroit this year and their secondary is getting killed. I agree about Philly, though, not only did they feel they needed two elite corners but three, and now they're out of the playoffs because they ignored other important areas.

The proof is in the pudding...errr...winsrawsavon

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] Philly is losing b/c they were stupid with their money...as I said in the preseason. Bad LB's, bad o-line spent a ton of money on a mediocre QB that makes highlight reels and is fragile did not spend money to protect his fragile ass spent money on the CB position that is not nearly as important as other areas/as it used to berawsavon

To be fair, I think Castillo is a huge liability on that team as well. He's never been a D-cordinator, and he seems to be singularly focused on the pass rush. He's got his ends playing wide nine and backs are consistently getting upfield on them as a result, and because of their poor linebacker play. The receivers on that team are also doing a pretty poor job of getting open, though that just goes back to what good McCoy does if no one can get open to catch the ball.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]... philly isn't losing because they run too much... they are losing because they aren't running enough (and turnovers...) But that is weird... considering teams that are losing usually have to throw the ball around I.E- Denver last yeartheone86

I don't know if I fully agree about the CB position not being important. You can look at Games when Green Bay shuts down receivers (although they're not doing it as often this year as they were last year), and it's a major boon to them. The Championship game last year is a good example, it was a very close game up to the end and the coverage on the receivers could have been the difference. Then look at teams like Minnesota and Detroit this year and their secondary is getting killed. I agree about Philly, though, not only did they feel they needed two elite corners but three, and now they're out of the playoffs because they ignored other important areas.

So depending on how you run your defense (3-4 or 4-3) LB or D-line is the most important...then safety...then CB
-like I said earlier, you don't want garbage at any spot.
-but you can't afford to be elite everywhere

I think Castillo is a huge liability on that team theone86

[QUOTE="rawsavon"] The proof is in the pudding...errr...winsNo_Hablo_Ingles

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"] You are entitled to your opinion...theone86

To be fair, I think Castillo is a huge liability on that team as well. He's never been a D-cordinator, and he seems to be singularly focused on the pass rush. He's got his ends playing wide nine and backs are consistently getting upfield on them as a result, and because of their poor linebacker play. The receivers on that team are also doing a pretty poor job of getting open, though that just goes back to what good McCoy does if no one can get open to catch the ball.

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"][QUOTE="rawsavon"] The proof is in the pudding...errr...winsrawsavon

blahrawsavon

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]blahNo_Hablo_Ingles

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]blahrawsavon

... the amount of stats that they have similar is amazing >.> Both also have 69 career INTs...No_Hablo_Ingles

I am pretty sure that if Mike Vick started another dog fighting kennel, No_Hablo would still defend him and blame his actions on "cuncussions and a poor support structure"...

Dude, it is time to wake up to the facts man. Mike Vick is a sub-par QB who had a few good games last year and built all kinds of media hype, who are frankly desperate for a crappy redemtion story.

Please man, I am begging you to wake up.

On topic: I agree 100%. CB's are made by the pass rush: there is a reason why Demarcus Ware is so highly thought of even though he can't cover and is tissue paper soft against the run. He rushes the passer, and in the Modern NFL, that is the most important skill.

Dude, first of all, he just got his money and is losing. I expect a nasty perdicament in the off-season for Vick.

Second of all, he is an historically bad passer. My statement was not false.

You have defended Vick at every turn. From my understanding, you don't blame him for a single loss this year. Dude, he just isn't that good.

You are a Pats fan right? You got Tom Brady... stick with a winner man.

Philly would be an contender if they could score in the 4th quarter :P

Dude, first of all, he just got his money and is losing. I expect a nasty perdicament in the off-season for Vick.

Second of all, he is an historically bad passer. My statement was not false.

You have defended Vick at every turn. From my understanding, you don't blame him for a single loss this year. Dude, he just isn't that good.

You are a Pats fan right? You got Tom Brady... stick with a winner man.

heysharpshooter

You expect a nasty off season predicament for Vick often I bet. During the lockout, I'm sure you were hoping that he would do something stupid so he would be knocked down a peg.

62% last year, 60ish% this year if fine. I do not care how accurate (or inaccurate in this case) he was 7 years ago in ATL where he relied on his legs. Wanna know what's worse then Vick's 56%? Watching Tebow struggle to throw 50%, and Sanchez throw at a similar accuracy as Vick in ATL, without the benefit of rushing for 600+ yards.

As far as not being false, you called him the worse QB in history... that is false to a laughable degree. Even if you were talking about just accuracy, that isn't true. Watch Tebow if you want to see a historically bad passer... 25% and I have my guy in Vick. I'll take him any day.

Their offense is the least of their concerns? What about last weekned... and please don't say the injury. At this point, everyone knows Vick didn't get hurt until late in the game. Reid was covering for his crappy play. Vick has more turnovers than touchdowns... the offense revolves around him, and under his command the team can't move the ball when it matters or score on an average defense like the Cardinals.

The defense ain't great either, but the whole ship is sinking with everyone on it...

Their offense is the least of their concerns? What about last weekned... and please don't say the injury. At this point, everyone knows Vick didn't get hurt until late in the game. Reid was covering for his crappy play. Vick has more turnovers than touchdowns... the offense revolves around him, and under his command the team can't move the ball when it matters or score on an average defense like the Cardinals.

The defense ain't great either, but the whole ship is sinking with everyone on it...

heysharpshooter

most of the yards are junk yards. Check downs that the teams are giving up to the team to cover the deep pass. The result? Vicks season. Last year was a fluke.

Also, Kolb stealing signals? REALLY?

You do know offensive players move from team to team all the time...

most of the yards are junk yards. Check downs that the teams are giving up to the team to cover the deep pass. The result? Vicks season. Last year was a fluke.

heysharpshooter

Also, Kolb stealing signals? REALLY?

You do know offensive players move from team to team all the time...

heysharpshooter

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

Also, Kolb stealing signals? REALLY?

You do know offensive players move from team to team all the time...

No_Hablo_Ingles

No, he said he would help the defense understand the offense

Players go from team to team all the time, yet only Eagles fan call foul... I didn't hear the Jets whining about Danny Woodhead going to the Pats and spilling the dirt on their offense.

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

Also, Kolb stealing signals? REALLY?

You do know offensive players move from team to team all the time...

heysharpshooter

No, he said he would help the defense understand the offense

Players go from team to team all the time, yet only Eagles fan call foul... I didn't hear the Jets whining about Danny Woodhead going to the Pats and spilling the dirt on their offense.

Kolb said on radio "...you almost feel guilty, Mike's sitting there giving the signals, and I'm standing there on our sidelines, screaming at our corners, 'Hey it's a go ball, hey he's running a screen, hey he's running a slant."

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"] He admitting to stealing signals... on a radio station... in Philly

No_Hablo_Ingles

No, he said he would help the defense understand the offense

Players go from team to team all the time, yet only Eagles fan call foul... I didn't hear the Jets whining about Danny Woodhead going to the Pats and spilling the dirt on their offense.

Kolb said on radio "...you almost feel guilty, Mike's sitting there giving the signals, and I'm standing there on our sidelines, screaming at our corners, 'Hey it's a go ball, hey he's running a screen, hey he's running a slant."

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

No, he said he would help the defense understand the offense

Players go from team to team all the time, yet only Eagles fan call foul... I didn't hear the Jets whining about Danny Woodhead going to the Pats and spilling the dirt on their offense.

Chutebox

Kolb said on radio "...you almost feel guilty, Mike's sitting there giving the signals, and I'm standing there on our sidelines, screaming at our corners, 'Hey it's a go ball, hey he's running a screen, hey he's running a slant."

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"] The Eagles fan didn't call foul nor are they whining... but to dismiss it is naive

Kolb said on radio "...you almost feel guilty, Mike's sitting there giving the signals, and I'm standing there on our sidelines, screaming at our corners, 'Hey it's a go ball, hey he's running a screen, hey he's running a slant."

No_Hablo_Ingles

I do agree to an extent about the RB being overvalued, basically because like you stated, the average career is not long. Cornerbacks however, I disagree strongly. Think of the last 20 Super bowl winning teams, and tell me how many of those teams had a legitimately weak pair of corners.

and tell me how many of those teams had a legitimately weak pair of corners.

RexHoles