How can anyone say with a straight face...

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Master_Live

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#1 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts
that NASCAR is a sport when a "tool" has so much imput in a driver performances, hearing the Daytona 500 announcers say that X or Y cars is performing well or that we knew X driver wouldn't do well because his car hasn't ran well in practice.

When a "tool" determines if you win or loose that's not a sports. I don't see people in football saying: "Oh God today Peyton shoe's haven't been performing well in practice he might have a bad day". In baseball the bat is just a tool, Pujols uses a bigger bat than Jose Reyes but that doesn't determine the sucess there gonna have that day rather their bat-eye coordination and skills.

Be noted that I understand that driving a car at 180 mph is hard and it take skills but when the car, not the drivers, has more imput in who wins that just isn't a sport, at least a real sport.

Discuss.
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PuddleMonkey

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#2 PuddleMonkey
Member since 2006 • 412 Posts
Feel free to mix in a right turn.
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BobSacamento

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#3 BobSacamento
Member since 2003 • 4340 Posts
its not a sport i agree

the definition of sport is as follows "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition"

its a game, or a hobby, like darts, but its not a sport
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PuddleMonkey

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#4 PuddleMonkey
Member since 2006 • 412 Posts
I love darts!!!! Wouldn't watch it on TV though.
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bigdcstile

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#5 bigdcstile
Member since 2004 • 2236 Posts
its not a sport i agree

the definition of sport is as follows "an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition"

its a game, or a hobby, like darts, but its not a sport
BobSacamento
As much as I don't feel Nascar, how can you tell me that there's no competition? As for Physical Exertion, get in your car and drive around for hours at 200mph while maintaining full control of your car and enduring the same maneuvers that these drivers do.
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bloody1f4knight

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#6 bloody1f4knight
Member since 2006 • 4922 Posts
What exactly is the term "sports" mean? I mean can you say that Nascar is not a sport because people are relying on cars rather than their physical skills? Well I hate Nascar as well but I think it needs skills in order to drive a racing car.
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Master_Live

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#7 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts
What exactly is the term "sports" mean? I mean can you say that Nascar is not a sport because people are relying on cars rather than their physical skills? Well I hate Nascar as well but I think it needs skills in order to drive a racing car. bloody1f4knight


First of all I don't hate NASCAR, second: I said that to drive a car, and any car for that matter, a set of skills is need it to drive it but when what determines who wins a race is something like: 70% Car-30% Driver then the human element is not as important as in other sports so you are not measuring which atlhlete is better but which car is better that day.

*By the way I'm wacthing the 500
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JRoss17

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#8 JRoss17
Member since 2005 • 5915 Posts

Im not even gonna bother, stupid people geez...

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Master_Live

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#9 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts

Im not even gonna bother, stupid people geez...

JRoss17


Please do, or it isn't you won't but rather that you can't argue?
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Elitemajik

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#10 Elitemajik
Member since 2002 • 333 Posts
olny at the 2 restrictor plate tracks(daytona and talladega) does the car have such a big determing factor of who wins. when they get to some of the more advanced tracks like infinon and bristol its more driver then anything eles
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nygiants1080

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#11 nygiants1080
Member since 2004 • 9413 Posts
I wouldn't call it a sport, but it deffiantly isn't just soem thing easy to do. I'll admit that it deffiantly takes practice and talent.
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viberooni

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#12 viberooni
Member since 2003 • 1396 Posts
It's a competition that involves teamwork, preparation and skill, but a sport? It depends on your definition of what constitutes an athlete, and if you need to have athletic skill for a competition to be considered a true sporting event. I say no, but I'm not a fan so I'm probably not the best judge.

I guess I get the appeal of Nascar, it's just not for me. F1 seems a lot more interesting as far as racing goes, but I wouldn't go out of my way to watch any events.
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eckboxes02

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#13 eckboxes02
Member since 2007 • 226 Posts
If you want to be a professional nascar "athlete" all you need is a beer gut and a rich daddy.

Unless your tom cruise, he is the ONLY!! exception.
He's also the only exception for professional fighter pilot and professional bartender. And professional samurai.
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Renegade_Fury

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#14 Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21757 Posts
It's a sport. Go take a physics class and learn about kinetics before you bash.
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Michael-Redd-22

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#15 Michael-Redd-22
Member since 2007 • 3193 Posts
Technically it isn't a sport, but it does take quite a bit of skill and endurance. First off, keeping a car on the track while going around 180 mph is, of course, tough, and maintaining a great amount of speed going into each turn.

Then of course, the endurance portion. Those drivers sit in a car for sometimes around four to five hours straight, where is is extremely hot, due to the heat of the car itself, the sun, and all of the protective gear they wear. To be able to remain conscious and aware of everything is nothing short of amazing.
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Renegade_Fury

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#16 Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21757 Posts
Technically it isn't a sport, but it does take quite a bit of skill and endurance. First off, keeping a car on the track while going around 180 mph is, of course, tough, and maintaining a great amount of speed going into each turn.

Then of course, the endurance portion. Those drivers sit in a car for sometimes around four to five hours straight, where is is extremely hot, due to the heat of the car itself, the sun, and all of the protective gear they wear. To be able to remain conscious and aware of everything is nothing short of amazing.
Michael-Redd-22

How's it not a sport? It's a competition, has a prize, and it's physical. Looks like a sport to me.
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fordies

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#17 fordies
Member since 2005 • 5829 Posts
I don't know much about nascar as i don't like it so i will use F1 as an example the physical stresses put on the F1 drivers is huge look at the G-forces alone they accelerate at 1.4g brake at 4g and they turn depending on the corner anything up to 6g. Then you have to factor in the race overalls as they wear about 2 or 3 layers of fire proof clothing and the temperature of the cockpit as they have an extremely highly tuned engine just a few inches behind them that is running at several hundred degrees and the temperature and humidity of the place they are racing like if i remember correctly at the Malaysian grand prix drivers can sweat over a gallon of fluid.

'An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.'

Thats the definition of sport has F1 got physical exertion yes, skill yes and set of rules yes and competition yes so F1 could definitely be a sport but its motorsports not just a sport as the equipment used can have a major affect on winning or losing.
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zymase

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#18 zymase
Member since 2003 • 6568 Posts
If it's not a sport because a "tool" has so much input, we might want to rule out the NBA as well, half of those guys qualify.
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gamelord2004

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#19 gamelord2004
Member since 2004 • 1448 Posts
NASCAR regulates the cars making sure no one has an unfair advantage. So it depends on the skill, and endurance of the driver. Counts as a sport to me
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BeanTownBrown86

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#20 BeanTownBrown86
Member since 2005 • 3654 Posts

if u see in on espn, its a sport....no matter how dumb it is (arm wrestling, darks...) only thing i question is poker, i guess if ur competing to win its a sport

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radikarz

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#21 radikarz
Member since 2003 • 588 Posts
Race car drivers can't call time out to go and take a dump. They often spend their day in a cramped space that's over 100 degrees, and 500 miles long. At any given moment, they could crash into a barrier at 180 miles an hour. Yep, it's just like throwing darts. lol 
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viberooni

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#22 viberooni
Member since 2003 • 1396 Posts
Race car drivers can't call time out to go and take a dump. They often spend their day in a cramped space that's over 100 degrees, and 500 miles long. At any given moment, they could crash into a barrier at 180 miles an hour. Yep, it's just like throwing darts. lol radikarz
That doesn't qualify drivers as athletes though, and it doesn't change the fact that the performance of the car has a greater affect on the outcome over whomever is behind the wheel. I still say it's not a sport in the traditional sense, I'd call it professional racing and leave it at that.
If it's not a sport because a "tool" has so much input, we might want to rule out the NBA as well, half of those guys qualify.zymase
um.. what?
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BobSacamento

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#23 BobSacamento
Member since 2003 • 4340 Posts
boys boys

is a competitive GAME like pool, whatever you put pool or bowling under, put car driving under as well. sport means the competitive game, but with the athleticism, im even tempted to say that it has to be a team thing to. but that would put tennis out so no.

do you consider horse racing to be a sport?
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BobSacamento

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#24 BobSacamento
Member since 2003 • 4340 Posts
[QUOTE="radikarz"]Race car drivers can't call time out to go and take a dump. They often spend their day in a cramped space that's over 100 degrees, and 500 miles long. At any given moment, they could crash into a barrier at 180 miles an hour. Yep, it's just like throwing darts. lol viberooni
That doesn't qualify drivers as athletes though, and it doesn't change the fact that the performance of the car has a greater affect on the outcome over whomever is behind the wheel. I still say it's not a sport in the traditional sense, I'd call it professional racing and leave it at that.
If it's not a sport because a "tool" has so much input, we might want to rule out the NBA as well, half of those guys qualify.zymase
um.. what?



lol yeah i didnt get that either

unless he considers height to be a tool
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jeebuscrust

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#25 jeebuscrust
Member since 2004 • 5571 Posts
boys boys

is a competitive GAME like pool, whatever you put pool or bowling under, put car driving under as well. sport means the competitive game, but with the athleticism, im even tempted to say that it has to be a team thing to. but that would put tennis out so no.

do you consider horse racing to be a sport?
BobSacamento
I consider horse racing to be a sport since it has living things racing each other. I consider the horse the athlete, not the jockey. But auto racing involves a machine.
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Master_Live

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#26 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts
[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]boys boys

is a competitive GAME like pool, whatever you put pool or bowling under, put car driving under as well. sport means the competitive game, but with the athleticism, im even tempted to say that it has to be a team thing to. but that would put tennis out so no.

do you consider horse racing to be a sport?
jeebuscrust
I consider horse racing to be a sport since it has living things racing each other. I consider the horse the athlete, not the jockey. But auto racing involves a machine.



Agreed.
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-ZeRoHouR-

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#27 -ZeRoHouR-
Member since 2003 • 8089 Posts
[QUOTE="bloody1f4knight"]What exactly is the term "sports" mean? I mean can you say that Nascar is not a sport because people are relying on cars rather than their physical skills? Well I hate Nascar as well but I think it needs skills in order to drive a racing car. Master_Live


First of all I don't hate NASCAR, second: I said that to drive a car, and any car for that matter, a set of skills is need it to drive it but when what determines who wins a race is something like: 70% Car-30% Driver then the human element is not as important as in other sports so you are not measuring which atlhlete is better but which car is better that day.

*By the way I'm wacthing the 500



Actually, your logic is flawed. You could have the best and fastest car on the track but, if you don't have a driver that knows actually how to drive the car to it's fullest, your not going to do anything with it.  Just think, if Nascar made you the best car for the Daytona 500, could you personnally win the race because by your logic, the car does all the work.
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Master_Live

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#28 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts
[QUOTE="Master_Live"][QUOTE="bloody1f4knight"]What exactly is the term "sports" mean? I mean can you say that Nascar is not a sport because people are relying on cars rather than their physical skills? Well I hate Nascar as well but I think it needs skills in order to drive a racing car. -ZeRoHouR-


First of all I don't hate NASCAR, second: I said that to drive a car, and any car for that matter, a set of skills is need it to drive it but when what determines who wins a race is something like: 70% Car-30% Driver then the human element is not as important as in other sports so you are not measuring which atlhlete is better but which car is better that day.

*By the way I'm wacthing the 500



Actually, your logic is flawed. You could have the best and fastest car on the track but, if you don't have a driver that knows actually how to drive the car to it's fullest, your not going to do anything with it. Just think, if Nascar made you the best car for the Daytona 500, could you personnally win the race because by your logic, the car does all the work.



Nop, I said 70-30 and maybe a so-so driver can win with a great car but a great driver can't win with a so-so car...at least that the clear impression someone gets when announcers say that: "X driver won't be able to do anything today because his car haven't been performing well during the weekend".
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Orlando_Magic

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#29 Orlando_Magic
Member since 2002 • 37448 Posts
Are air shows considered a sport too? Because flying a plane isn't that different from driving a car...
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Master_Live

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#31 Master_Live
Member since 2004 • 20550 Posts
I'm not a car racing fan, but I like it when they show the crashes on the highlights.:Droulettethedog


Agreed, so bizarre isn't?
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BobSacamento

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#32 BobSacamento
Member since 2003 • 4340 Posts
[QUOTE="BobSacamento"]boys boys

is a competitive GAME like pool, whatever you put pool or bowling under, put car driving under as well. sport means the competitive game, but with the athleticism, im even tempted to say that it has to be a team thing to. but that would put tennis out so no.

do you consider horse racing to be a sport?
jeebuscrust
I consider horse racing to be a sport since it has living things racing each other. I consider the horse the athlete, not the jockey. But auto racing involves a machine.



in nascar, the car is the athlete
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-ZeRoHouR-

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#33 -ZeRoHouR-
Member since 2003 • 8089 Posts
[QUOTE="-ZeRoHouR-"][QUOTE="Master_Live"][QUOTE="bloody1f4knight"]What exactly is the term "sports" mean? I mean can you say that Nascar is not a sport because people are relying on cars rather than their physical skills? Well I hate Nascar as well but I think it needs skills in order to drive a racing car. Master_Live


First of all I don't hate NASCAR, second: I said that to drive a car, and any car for that matter, a set of skills is need it to drive it but when what determines who wins a race is something like: 70% Car-30% Driver then the human element is not as important as in other sports so you are not measuring which atlhlete is better but which car is better that day.

*By the way I'm wacthing the 500



Actually, your logic is flawed. You could have the best and fastest car on the track but, if you don't have a driver that knows actually how to drive the car to it's fullest, your not going to do anything with it. Just think, if Nascar made you the best car for the Daytona 500, could you personnally win the race because by your logic, the car does all the work.



Nop, I said 70-30 and maybe a so-so driver can win with a great car but a great driver can't win with a so-so car...at least that the clear impression someone gets when announcers say that: "X driver won't be able to do anything today because his car haven't been performing well during the weekend".



Since most of you guys like like to rip on Nascar drivers since they are trying to turn a 4000lb car at those speeds and trying to maintain focus, let me try and refer this to other sports. So, you don't consider baseball athletes since they stand out in the field 80% of the time and sit on the bench until it's their turn to bat? What about football, where they only play one side of the field depending on their position? No matter who you know, when your trying to maintain focus for as long as those drivers do, you tend to stress out which then leads to faster heart rate and in return, sweat. You could say something towards football saying "Payton Manning didn't perform well today since the grass was a little wet and he slipped a few times." Or baseball and say "Randy Johnson didn't perform well because it was cold out and he couldn't handle the ball." There is always something that results badly towards somebody in every sport no matter how you look at it.

Just for you though, I'm not here to argue with you.  I am just stating what I believe that drivers are athletes in a certain way.  They still exert themselves until the race is over.
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JRoss17

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#34 JRoss17
Member since 2005 • 5915 Posts

The drivers take massive amounts of physical extursion(sp?) when they climb in too 3500 lb machines, They are in there for up to 5 hours sometimes (Coca Cola 600 @ Lowe's) and they dont have the bonus of calling a timeout when there tired, when there arms are aching way more than any Quarterback, Pitcher or Outfielder, they have to tough it out in there, They play the sport 100% of the time, Unlike football where Your on for about 3 minutes then get a break, same with baseball, and basketball, and hockey and everything else.  The amount of Physical strength it takes to keep control of your car in a pack of 42 others while maintaining speeds in excess of 180 mph with other cars inches way from you, while you dive into a turn, is phenominal (sp?) These drivers dont get to go to the bathroom, they stay in sweat boxes for the whole time the race takes.  It takes more mental preperation to race in NASCAR than anything, and the physical principle of it is often overlooked.   The car does have a big contributing factor in too who wins and who doesn't, for if say its damaged, but if a good driver is behind it, it shouldnt be damaged unless you caught up in a crash? right? Also, Your arms and mind are always moving, you have to think where your going to go, keep control of your car when it wants to spin out, keep off other drivers, all this while your baking at an unreal amount of heat in your seat.  If you say that NASCAR isn't a sport, then bye all your logic, hockey, football, baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer any many other sports aren't a sport at all.  How often do you hear other proffesional athletes say they respect these drivers for what they do, that they themselves couldn't do it? How much strength (mental and physical) it takes to perform so well at such high speeds and temperatures? I'll name one of these people, Lebron James of the Cleveland Cavaliers @ the Bristol race in August 2 years ago.  So in my closing argument I would like to say, I still stand by my first post, anybody who thinks NASCAR isnt a sport is stupid.

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whodeysay85

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#35 whodeysay85
Member since 2006 • 3237 Posts
yes NASCAR does have very physical elements and requires great dedication and focus. But the fact that A MACHINE is just as important to the race is the reason why many people do not feel it is a sport. Personally i find NASCAR to be boring. But to each his own. However, it is not a sport on the level of basketball or football where your own body is the instrument.
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JRoss17

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#36 JRoss17
Member since 2005 • 5915 Posts
Hmm For baseball you need a bat...for hockey you need stick...for football you need a ball...in nascar you need a car that runs good...Its the same as everything else..Put a bad athlete behind the wheel or give him a hockey stick, results are the same.
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viberooni

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#37 viberooni
Member since 2003 • 1396 Posts
Hmm For baseball you need a bat...for hockey you need stick...for football you need a ball...in nascar you need a car that runs good...Its the same as everything else..Put a bad athlete behind the wheel or give him a hockey stick, results are the same.JRoss17
Obviously nearly every sport or game out there uses some form of equipment, that has no bearing on the argument at all. You can repeat these kind of examples ad infinitum until it isn't even relevant anymore. (You can't play poker without cards, you can't bowl without a bowling ball, you can't tap dance without tap shoes..) The question is, how much influence does the equiptment have over the human element in determining the outcome?

NASCAR is better compared with track & field, also a test of endurance and strategy albeit at much slower speeds. What sets professional racing apart is the fact that the "athlete" is the car - the driver's job is to control it. While that task may not be easy, and it certainly requires a good deal of physical competence, reflexes and focus, that does not mean drivers are athletes and racing is a traditional sport. Bottom line, you need not possess athletic skill to win races and be considered an excellent driver. The performance of the vehicles will determine the outcome of a race between drivers of equal skill. Optimizing and tweaking cars is a huge part of any racing team and plays a significantly larger role in performance than which football or hockey stick is used.

Call it motorsports, auto racing, professional racing, whatever - just please, don't twist the definition of sport to include any and all forms of competition.
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#38 drpepper21
Member since 2006 • 35 Posts
Well, let's not forget the pit crews.  If you don't have a very good crew chief who can fix your car, your'e not going to do well. Let's also not forget the fact that changing four tires in fifteen seconds isn't easy either.  Also, you need a very good engine crew who can build a very good car for you.