Is Kobe even the best player on his team

I mean it always seems like he is chucking up contested shots and ends up with 9-24 fg's and free throws to pad his stats, while Gasol shots a great percentage and always seems to let the game come to him,and I know Pau has a few times said that he doesnt like the amount of shots Kobe is shooting one-on-one and wants the offense run more through himself and Bynum.

Kobe Bryant typical line 27 points 8-22fg 2-6 3fg 10-12ft's 5rbs 4 assists

Pau Gasol typical night 23 points 9-15fg 5-6 ft's 14 rbs 4 assists and 2 blocks

Is Bryant the more talented player, that I dont question, but Gasol is more important to LA than Bryant, very effecient plays low post defense, and neither guy won anything without another, Gasol and Bryant were both bounced in the first round for number of years. But since Pau is coming into his own and is at the moment the best big in the league, and Bryant has slowed down with all the injuries and mileage, IMO the best player on the Lakers is Gasol as evidenced by last years finals.

Of course every great player needs another great player to play with. No one can can win a championship carrying a whole team on their own...but you can't be serious that Kobe isn't the best player on the Lakers.

Kobe hasn't slowed down. He just doesn't need to take that many shots like he used too now that he has Pau and all the other surrounding players like Fisher, Odem, Artest, Bynum ect. Plus remember all those BuzzerBeaters he made last year? This season barely started.

Kobe can relax a bit now that he has a better team.

No. I'm not a Lakers fan but even I have to admit that Kobe is a HUGE part of that team. Look at all of the clutch shots he has made. The guy is simply just a wiz at the game. Gasol is good there is no doubt of that. They play two completely different positions in the game so comparing these two is irrelevant IMO. The bottom line is that Kobe is a more athletic long range shooter whereas Gasol is a more powerful short range player. In the end the team would suffer more without Kobe simply because of his knowledge of the game and his absolute finess with the ball.

in NBA2K11 kobe looks like an alien

Pau Gasol always shot a high percentage even when he was in Memphis but that doesn't make him a better player then Kobe or a better team leader than Kobe. Why do you think Pau Gasol never won a game in the playoffs when he was with Memphis even when he made the playoffs 3 times? if he was efficient then, then why couldn't he lead his team to at least one win in the playoffs? Kobe managed to take the Suns to 7 games with teammates that included Smush Parker who is out of the league now, Kwame "brick hands" brown and Luke Walton. Saying Pau Gasol is more important to the Lakers is like saying Pippen was more important to the Bulls than Jordan. Of course Pippen was a big reason they won titles but he wasn't the main reason ;) andyboiii

If Gasol got hurt, I think that the team could pull together and win more than lose, although it would be a tough road. If Kobe got hurt, I think the team would lose more than they win, and the road would be near impossible.hockey73

Yes, of course Kobe is still the best player on the Lakers!

But you can't beat Father Time and Kobe is getting older.

And arguably, I think Pau should've gotten the Finals MVP last year because without him they would've never reached the finals three consecutive years. I think if the Lakers win again this year, Pau should get the Finals MVP. He should get that recognition for his huge contributions to the Lakers.

But Kobe is still the best on the team and without him the Lakers can't win. So they compliment each other. I wish there was such thing as co-MVP.

Kobe is of course the best player on his team... however Kobe can't bring a team to the championship single-handedly. I've only seen two players in NBA history to ever do it by themselves Allen Iverson and Lebron James.No_Hablo_Ingles

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]Kobe is of course the best player on his team... however Kobe can't bring a team to the championship single-handedly. I've only seen two players in NBA history to ever do it by themselves Allen Iverson and Lebron James.frostybanana

do you see how tall gasol is? its easier for him to make hooks in the paint thus shooting a higher percentage.

a lot of times gasol is wide open but everytime kobe has the ball he is suffocated by the defense... kobe creates shots for others.

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662 Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 total games) Difference = .058No_Hablo_Ingles

Pau Gasol always shot a high percentage even when he was in Memphis but that doesn't make him a better player then Kobe or a better team leader than Kobe. Why do you think Pau Gasol never won a game in the playoffs when he was with Memphis even when he made the playoffs 3 times? if he was efficient then, then why couldn't he lead his team to at least one win in the playoffs? Kobe managed to take the Suns to 7 games with teammates that included Smush Parker who is out of the league now, Kwame "brick hands" brown and Luke Walton. Saying Pau Gasol is more important to the Lakers is like saying Pippen was more important to the Bulls than Jordan. Of course Pippen was a big reason they won titles but he wasn't the main reason ;) andyboiii

I don't have to say anything you said it all. :)

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662 Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 total games) Difference = .058Master_Live

1992-93-Michael Jordan's Regular Season Win Percentage = .6951 1993-94-Bulls Win Percentage Without Michael Jordan = .6707 (82 game seasons). Difference = .0244, .0244 less than .058.

Jordan less important to Bulls than Kobe is to Lakers??

[QUOTE="Master_Live"]

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662 Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 total games) Difference = .058mont13

1992-93-Michael Jordan's Regular Season Win Percentage = .6951 1993-94-Bulls Win Percentage Without Michael Jordan = .6707 (82 game seasons). Difference = .0244, .0244 less than .058.

Conclusion 1 : Pippen more important than Jordan??

Conclusion 2: Jordan less important to Bulls than Kobe is to Lakers??

1) The statistics weren't compound the same way. We would have to see from which period "No_Hablo_Ingles" took those 95 total games: whole career? Period in which Kobe was "The Man"?; lets remember Kobe took the back seat in the 3-peat so a game missed by Kobe would mean the Lakers still had their best player in Shaq. Plus is not the same playing a game which you might had expected your main star to start than playing a season knowing he won't be there. So the statistical analysis comparison might be invalid.

2) My original point is that neither the Bulls nor the Lakers would crash and burn without their main star.

[QUOTE="Master_Live"]

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662 Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 total games) Difference = .058mont13

1992-93-Michael Jordan's Regular Season Win Percentage = .6951 1993-94-Bulls Win Percentage Without Michael Jordan = .6707 (82 game seasons). Difference = .0244, .0244 less than .058.

Conclusion 1 : Pippen more important than Jordan??

Conclusion 2: Jordan less important to Bulls than Kobe is to Lakers??

Bulls Record in 1992-1993
57-25

Bulls Record in 1993-1994 the Jordan-less Bulls notched a 55–27 record

1994–95 Bulls at one point before the return of Jordan
31-31

1994-1995 After the Return of Jordan final record of Bulls
47-35

Kobe must've made Pau better than he used to be.

I hear Pau is the best PF right now in the NBA according to Fox Sports... and he wouldn't be the top PF in the game if he was still in Memphis.

Kobe must've made Pau better than he used to be.

I hear Pau is the best PF right now in the NBA according to Fox Sports... and he wouldn't be the top PF in the game if he was still in Memphis.

Major_Snake

I'd take Dirk over Pau on the offensive side...No_Hablo_Ingles

[QUOTE="Major_Snake"]

Kobe must've made Pau better than he used to be.

I hear Pau is the best PF right now in the NBA according to Fox Sports... and he wouldn't be the top PF in the game if he was still in Memphis.

Master_Live

Hmm well those guys have gotten old. Amare doesn't really play D. Boozer is a waste. Nowitzki's hair is great.

uuuhhhh.. I'd take Bosh. I hear he plays for the Heat.

But seriously, I guess he was just VASTLY underrated as a player in Memphis, but that should be expected since they never made the playoffs or always got swept in the first round. If he's the greatest at his position he should have at least won some post season games. That's why joining the Lakers made him better in some ways.

I'd take Dirk over Pau on the offensive side...No_Hablo_Ingles

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"]I'd take Dirk over Pau on the offensive side...andyboiii

1. Pau isn't even the best player one his team, unlike Dirk when he went to the Finals 2. Please don't even compare the offensive abilities of Dirk vs Pau. It's not even comparable. The day Pau wins an MVP award, then talk.No_Hablo_Ingles

1. Doesn't matter, he still failed in the finals

2. Dirk Relies too much on his jumper when he's supposed to be a POWER FORWARD. The day Dirk decides to change the way he plays like a Nancy then come back to me

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"] 1. Pau isn't even the best player one his team, unlike Dirk when he went to the Finals 2. Please don't even compare the offensive abilities of Dirk vs Pau. It's not even comparable. The day Pau wins an MVP award, then talk.andyboiii

1. Doesn't matter, he still failed in the finals

2. Dirk Relies too much on his jumper when he's supposed to be a POWER FORWARD. The day Dirk decides to change the way he plays like a Nancy then come back to me

[QUOTE="No_Hablo_Ingles"] 1. Pau isn't even the best player one his team, unlike Dirk when he went to the Finals 2. Please don't even compare the offensive abilities of Dirk vs Pau. It's not even comparable. The day Pau wins an MVP award, then talk.andyboiii

1. Doesn't matter, he still failed in the finals

1) The statistics weren't compound the same way. We would have to see from which period "No_Hablo_Ingles" took those 95 total games: whole career? Period in which Kobe was "The Man"?; lets remember Kobe took the back seat in the 3-peat so a game missed by Kobe would mean the Lakers still had their best player in Shaq. Plus is not the same playing a game which you might had expected your main star to start than playing a season knowing he won't be there. So the statistical analysis comparison might be invalid.

2) My original point is that neither the Bulls nor the Lakers would crash and burn without their main star.

I was wondering where those 95 games are taken from?? The Shaq years shouldn't be considered when comparing this Lakers team with or without Kobe. And with this current Laker team are there enough games without Kobe to draw a conclusion? It's one thing to play good without him over a limited number of games, a whole season is something else.

The Bulls replaced MJ with a much lesser player and lost only 2 more games over a whole season, my only point is maybe the thinking that the "team only lost so many games when the star was out, therefore the star was really not as important" may not be a good conclusion to make. However, there was one site that showed when other stars missed games (Bird and I think Magic) their teams suffered much more than the Bulls did when MJ retired ...just saying, gotta get my MJ "Hate" in for the week, right sixrings:P 82 games is a nice sample set, don't know about Bird and Magic.

As far as Kobe taking a "back seat in the 3-peat", I'd say Kobe took the back (perimeter) and dominated, and Shaq dominated the interior.

I agree with your 2nd point.

The 95 games were taken from his entire career from the day he became the starter, so I'm assuming many of them included the years with Shaq. To exclude the Kobe+Shaq era would require too much effort on my part to see what their record would be without Kobe.No_Hablo_Ingles

Ok

1. What an ignorant comment. Finals are won by teams, not by individuals. Dirk didn't fold in the Playoffs, his team did. Game 1- 16 Points, 10 Rebounds, 4 assist. Game 2- 26 Points, 16 Rebounds, 4 assist Game 3- 30 Points, 7 Rebounds, 1 assist Game 4- 14 Points, 9 Rebounds Game 5- 20 Points, 8 Rebounds Game 6- 29 Points, 15 Rebounds Average 23.6 Points, 10.8 How is averaging 23 and 11 failing? The better team won, simple as that. 2. Dirk Relies too much on his jumper that he frequently makes? Oh, that's so terrible. Him being a threat anywhere on the court can't possibly help his team win :roll:. Dirk averaged over .400 behind the 3 point line last year. The whole "Back to the Basket" Power Forward days are gone dude. Name me one Forward, including Pau, that doesn't have a decent Jumper nowadays that is an all star? I'll wait.No_Hablo_Ingles

game 1

Dirk 4-14 0 blocks

game 2

Dirk 8-16 2 blocks

game 3

9-20 0 blocks

game 4

2-14 0 blocks

game 5

Dirk 8-19 0 blocks

game 6

Dirk 10-22 2 blocks

Now let's compare Gasol in last years finals

8-14 3 blocks

7-10 6 blocks

5-11 2 blocks

6-13 2 blocks

5-12 0 blocks

6-14 3 blocks

6-16 2 blocks

now Pau's FG wasn't dramatically better then dirks but he at least he was consistent and contributed with blocks. Dirk is a worthless defender as you can see and Gasol was going up against a better defender while Dirk wasn't. He also didn't have a 2-14 like Dirk in the finals against the Heat who weren't even a great defensive team

It does matter, lets put Kobe on Dallas and see what happen. Master_Live

Dirk 4-14 0 blocks

game 2

Dirk 8-16 2 blocks

game 3

9-20 0 blocks

game 4

2-14 0 blocks

game 5

Dirk 8-19 0 blocks

game 6

Dirk 10-22 2 blocks

Now let's compare Gasol in last years finals

8-14 3 blocks

7-10 6 blocks

5-11 2 blocks

6-13 2 blocks

5-12 0 blocks

6-14 3 blocks

6-16 2 blocks

now Pau's FG wasn't dramatically better then dirks but he at least he was consistent and contributed with blocks. Dirk is a worthless defender as you can see and Gasol was going up against a better defender while Dirk wasn't. He also didn't have a 2-14 like Dirk in the finals against the Heat who weren't even a great defensive team

andyboiii

Blocks aren't important for a player like Dirk and would actually end up costing the Mavs. Unlike the Lakers, the Mavericks didn't have the depth at the position to risk him getting stupid fouls on D-Wade or Shaq. Gasol isn't forced to make things work, since every player on his team except Artest is a better shooter anyway.No_Hablo_Ingles

1. blocks are VERY important part of the game, they are big game changers. Ask Hakeem The Dream Olajuwon who was the main guy for the Rockets championships if he ever slacked off on defense because he was scared to get in foul trouble. Hakeem was a beast offensively and defensively and did it without getting himself in foul trouble. Take Duncan for example. Duncan blocked 8 blocks in the finals once. Good players find a way to get blocks without getting in foul trouble. Dirk has never been a good defender or shot blocker. Gasol also had to worry about getting in foul trouble because without him there was no offensive scoring threat for the lakers down low at that time during the finalsandyboiii

If Dirk were to foul out going for blocks, when that was the job Erick Dampier, it would put his team at an enormous disadvantage, the same can not be said for Gasol since Odem would fill his slot nearly flawlessly and Bynum is still the Center.No_Hablo_Ingles

Odom is way too inconsistent and doesn't have the offensive game that is even close to Pau Gasols level. also you totally dismissed my other argument. If Duncan and Hakeem Olajuwon who were the main focal points in their championships were able to defend well and get blocks why wasn't Dirk able to? Even in the regular season Dirk was never a good shot blocker so to say he wasn't in the playoffs because he had to save himself from getting out of foul trouble doesn't make senseandyboiii

What the hell? Dirk and Pau are vastly different players. Pau is basically the prototype PF and Dirk is the big man who spreads the floor and causes matchup problems.

It depends what you need on your team. An inside presence or someone who spreads the floor. So you can't argue who's better OFFENSIVELY which is why this started I think.

What the hell? Dirk and Pau are vastly different players. Pau is basically the prototype PF and Dirk is the big man who spreads the floor and causes matchup problems.

It depends what you need on your team. An inside presence or someone who spreads the floor. So you can't argue who's better OFFENSIVELY which is why this started I think.Major_Snake

You are correct sir :P