Kobe Bryant Is Not A Leader, Does It Hurt HIs Legacy?

Listening to Scott Van Pelt on Sirius I heard an interesting fact, Kobe Bryant has 5 elimination games where his team has been blown out for 30 points or more.

Michael Jordan on the other hand never had that happen.

Now Kobe is a great player but as a leader he's awful. As the most talented player on his teams he's done the most for them individually but past that he doesn't do anything, when he calls out a player the media calls it holding them accountable but come on, who can't do that?

The trick isn't who can carry everyone else, the trick is getting the other players to follow right beside you. Jordan was able to do that, even if they were going to lose they were going to lose with a fight and Kobe has never been able to do that. Kobe wont ever surrender but he's unable to make other players act that way on the teams he's played on.

Overall I think this hurts his legacy, the level of scrutiny for players increases when they retire and Kobe's been dogged by detractors of his game his entire career.

Does Kobe Bryant's inability to lead hurt his legacy?

Such an awesome thread lol. Keep going guys!

haters gonna hate but for me im only 21 i barely remember michael playing so for me kobe is my michael. the guy has got 5 rings and we should cheer for him to win more because its very rare to see great players like him win that many rings. hate on haters. xbox360isgr8t

It's not a question of diminishing him as a player, as a player he's terrific and one of the best to play the game.

The question comes up when you ask does his inability to lead his teammates drop him down in the overall list of greatest players of all time?

In his career he's never been able to impose his will on his team where his teammates fight just as hard as he does. Jordan on the other hand was able to do that, there was never a lack of fight in the Bulls.

The Lakers have lost the will to fight numerous times when it mattered most while Kobe has been there.

[QUOTE="xbox360isgr8t"]haters gonna hate but for me im only 21 i barely remember michael playing so for me kobe is my michael. the guy has got 5 rings and we should cheer for him to win more because its very rare to see great players like him win that many rings. hate on haters. Jaysonguy

It's not a question of diminishing him as a player, as a player he's terrific and one of the best to play the game.

The question comes up when you ask does his inability to lead his teammates drop him down in the overall list of greatest players of all time?

In his career he's never been able to impose his will on his team where his teammates fight just as hard as he does. Jordan on the other hand was able to do that, there was never a lack of fight in the Bulls.

The Lakers have lost the will to fight numerous times when it mattered most while Kobe has been there.

Kobe gave his team a beautiful chance to win in game 3.

that was the most important game...if they lost they would be down 3-0...THAT WAS THE GAME THAT MATTERED.

GAME 4 DIDNT MATTER IT WAS OVER ALREADY....JORDAN WAS NEVER DOWN 3-0....KICKBACK

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="xbox360isgr8t"]haters gonna hate but for me im only 21 i barely remember michael playing so for me kobe is my michael. the guy has got 5 rings and we should cheer for him to win more because its very rare to see great players like him win that many rings. hate on haters. xbox360isgr8t

It's not a question of diminishing him as a player, as a player he's terrific and one of the best to play the game.

The question comes up when you ask does his inability to lead his teammates drop him down in the overall list of greatest players of all time?

In his career he's never been able to impose his will on his team where his teammates fight just as hard as he does. Jordan on the other hand was able to do that, there was never a lack of fight in the Bulls.

The Lakers have lost the will to fight numerous times when it mattered most while Kobe has been there.

No, I'm not saying that they should have been in the title game, the Lakers are soft, they don't have a real point guard, and Kobe is old. Them losing isn't that shocking to anyone right now.

The thing is how they went out, in this series and 4 other times in the most important game of the year the Lakers have quit, sure, Kobe is out there but the rest of the team isn't following him.

Kobe gave his team a beautiful chance to win in game 3.

that was the most important game...if they lost they would be down 3-0...THAT WAS THE GAME THAT MATTERED.

GAME 4 DIDNT MATTER IT WAS OVER ALREADY....JORDAN WAS NEVER DOWN 3-0....KICKBACK

KBFloYd

Yes, he was unable to make his team give a decent effort down 0-3

Also this happened 4 other seasons, it's not like this just happened, each time Kobe was unable to make his team give the same sort of effort he's giving.

he has led the lakers to 5 championships, i fail to see how hes not a leader...

Yes, he was unable to make his team give a decent effort down 0-3

Also this happened 4 other seasons, it's not like this just happened, each time Kobe was unable to make his team give the same sort of effort he's giving.

Jaysonguy

ZERO TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY HAVE COME BACK FROM 3-0....THAT INCLUDES BILL RUSSELL AND MICHEAL JORDAN..teh hell you talking about

he has led the lakers to 5 championships, i fail to see how hes not a leader...

munchlax99

exactly..he is a terrific leader..usually when kobe loses in the postseason its because his team is weak or someone doesnt play right....in this case IT WAS PAU GASOL...he didnt only quit on kobe...HE SABOTAGED GAME1 AND GAME3...THERE I SAID IT...he threw those games....not only that...he threw pretty much the WHOLE SEASON!

pau did give us 2 rings so we owe him 1 more year to show he was just in a bad mindset this year....but if he pulls this garbage again next season...HE NEEDS TO GO.

Kobe is an amazing leader. He's led the team to two championships, and won 3 others as a important supporting role. As for why he was god awful this postseason, it was because of of Pau. plain and simple. Bynum was producing, but Pau did nothing to help the Lakers. In Game 4, the second highest scorer in the game was Shannon Brown. Just hink about that for a moment.

maybe that says more about his teammates than it does about him

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Yes, he was unable to make his team give a decent effort down 0-3

Also this happened 4 other seasons, it's not like this just happened, each time Kobe was unable to make his team give the same sort of effort he's giving.

KBFloYd

ZERO TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY HAVE COME BACK FROM 3-0....THAT INCLUDES BILL RUSSELL AND MICHEAL JORDAN..teh hell you talking about

I'm not sure you understand

5 times he's been in an elimination game and he's failed to keep his team from quitting

I didn't think this was complicated

It doesn't matter 0-3, 1-3, 2-3, or 3-3. The point is that he's been unable to stop his team from giving up in 5 seasons.

Well he has 5 rings. If he's not a good leader then I'd rather have a bad leader on my team. Who cares if you're a good leader or not if you can win championships and are always a champ contender year after year.

Guys, guys, guys! You're not understanding. That fact that he's lead a team to 5 rings doesn't matter. What matters is what some guy said on the radio. That's what matters.

[QUOTE="KBFloYd"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]Yes, he was unable to make his team give a decent effort down 0-3

Also this happened 4 other seasons, it's not like this just happened, each time Kobe was unable to make his team give the same sort of effort he's giving.

Jaysonguy

ZERO TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY HAVE COME BACK FROM 3-0....THAT INCLUDES BILL RUSSELL AND MICHEAL JORDAN..teh hell you talking about

I'm not sure you understand

5 times he's been in an elimination game and he's failed to keep his team from quitting

I didn't think this was complicated

It doesn't matter 0-3, 1-3, 2-3, or 3-3. The point is that he's been unable to stop his team from giving up in 5 seasons.

i dont think you understand what having 5 rings means..

but i'll play... those times he lost his team was garbage...smush parker, kwame brown,chris mihm, ronnie turiaf, luke walton, sasha vujajic...only good player was lamar odom!

look at wade for 2007-2010...does he suck as a leader too because he couldnt keep his team from being eliminated for 4 years? he couldnt give his team the right leadership?

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="KBFloYd"]

ZERO TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY HAVE COME BACK FROM 3-0....THAT INCLUDES BILL RUSSELL AND MICHEAL JORDAN..teh hell you talking about

KBFloYd

I'm not sure you understand

5 times he's been in an elimination game and he's failed to keep his team from quitting

I didn't think this was complicated

It doesn't matter 0-3, 1-3, 2-3, or 3-3. The point is that he's been unable to stop his team from giving up in 5 seasons.

i dont think you understand what having 5 rings means..

but i'll play... those times he lost his team was garbage...smush parker, kwame brown,chris mihm, ronnie turiaf, luke walton, sasha vujajic...only good player was lamar odom!

look at wade for 2007-2010...does he suck as a leader too because he couldnt keep his team from being elimated for 3 years? he couldnt give his team the right leadership?

whos the leader of boston? pierce or garnett? he couldnt keep his team from being eliminated last year...he sux as a leader.

*also i meant 4 years with wade not 3*

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="KBFloYd"]

ZERO TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY HAVE COME BACK FROM 3-0....THAT INCLUDES BILL RUSSELL AND MICHEAL JORDAN..teh hell you talking about

KBFloYd

I'm not sure you understand

5 times he's been in an elimination game and he's failed to keep his team from quitting

I didn't think this was complicated

It doesn't matter 0-3, 1-3, 2-3, or 3-3. The point is that he's been unable to stop his team from giving up in 5 seasons.

i dont think you understand what having 5 rings means..

but i'll play... those times he lost his team was garbage...smush parker, kwame brown,chris mihm, ronnie turiaf, luke walton, sasha vujajic...only good player was lamar odom!

look at wade for 2007-2010...does he suck as a leader too because he couldnt keep his team from being elimated for 3 years? he couldnt give his team the right leadership?

Now I'm sure you don't understand

The Heat didn't even make the playoffs in 2007 so their elimination game would have been?

In 2008 the Heat were beaten by a 13 point margin in their elimination game, bad but nothing huge

In 2009 the Heat were beaten by 10 in their elimination game

So let's see, for some reason you bring up the season where Wade was injured and didn't play, the season where they went 7 games and lost by 13 and then the season the Celtics beat them down but lost by ten?

So you showed us how Wade is able to make his teammates not give up to show that Kobe can't to defend Kobe how?

whos the leader of boston? pierce or garnett? he couldnt keep his team from being eliminated last year...he sux as a leader.

*also i meant 4 years with wade not 3*

KBFloYd

Awesome, to follow up Wade's ability to lead his team you bring up the Celtics who lost by 4 in their elimination game.

Ok, here's a refresher, Kobe's teams have lost by 30+ points in their elimination games for 5 seasons. His teams gave up and he was unable to make them play, they didn't feel the need to play for him.

On the other hand you just said that the Celtics don't have any leaders because all of them played to the final seconds and lost by 4.

Again, Kobe's teammates wont play for him to the very end so if you're going to go this route pick teams that gave up in their most important games.

The Heat didn't even make the playoffs in 2007 so their elimination game would have been?

In 2008 the Heat were beaten by a 13 point margin in their elimination game, bad but nothing huge

In 2009 the Heat were beaten by 10 in their elimination game

So let's see, for some reason you bring up the season where Wade was injured and didn't play, the season where they went 7 games and lost by 13 and then the season the Celtics beat them down but lost by ten?

So you showed us how Wade is able to make his teammates not give up to show that Kobe can't to defend Kobe how?

Jaysonguy

Now you show your true colors man. You're just a Heat, or more likely a Dwane Wade fanboy. I'm sorry if you don't like the Lakers and have to make up ridiculous reasons why Kobe is a bad player to make yourself feel better. Oh and don't confuse yourself with Dwane Wade being a good leader now cause they're still in it, they obviously have much more talent than they did last year and that's the reason they're doing better, not because of Dwane Wade's immaculate performance of an NBA leader.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The Heat didn't even make the playoffs in 2007 so their elimination game would have been?

In 2008 the Heat were beaten by a 13 point margin in their elimination game, bad but nothing huge

In 2009 the Heat were beaten by 10 in their elimination game

So let's see, for some reason you bring up the season where Wade was injured and didn't play, the season where they went 7 games and lost by 13 and then the season the Celtics beat them down but lost by ten?

So you showed us how Wade is able to make his teammates not give up to show that Kobe can't to defend Kobe how?

trodeback

Now you show your true colors man. You're just a Heat, or more likely a Dwane Wade fanboy. I'm sorry if you don't like the Lakers and have to make up ridiculous reasons why Kobe is a bad player to make yourself feel better. Oh and don't confuse yourself with Dwane Wade being a good leader now cause they're still in it, they obviously have much more talent than they did last year and that's the reason they're doing better, not because of Dwane Wade's immaculate performance of an NBA leader.

Now I'm sure you don't understand

The Heat didn't even make the playoffs in 2007 so their elimination game would have been?

In 2008 the Heat were beaten by a 13 point margin in their elimination game, bad but nothing huge

In 2009 the Heat were beaten by 10 in their elimination game

So let's see, for some reason you bring up the season where Wade was injured and didn't play, the season where they went 7 games and lost by 13 and then the season the Celtics beat them down but lost by ten?

So you showed us how Wade is able to make his teammates not give up to show that Kobe can't to defend Kobe how?

Jaysonguy

ok i see what your saying... :Pyou say kobe sucks as a leader because he lets his team down in elimination games? let me tell you why i think he lets them down.

he is a FIERCE COMPETITOR..he will step over his grandma to get a Ring...thats why he got into fights with SHAQ and why phil jackson wrote a book about him.he is a jerk like jordan was... he will let his teammates down in an elimination game to PROVE A POINT!...he said it himself after he lost the series in 2006 against the suns..."it doesnt matter how many points i score. it has to be a team effort"

but why ignore all the times he took them to the finals...or to 7 games...or to the championship 5 times...why overlook that and call him a bad leader?

Lakers just didn't match up at all with the Mavs in this series and they were exploited big time. I do not think losing a series and the childish behavior by Odom and Bynum some how brings Kobe down a notch. He condoned the actions and the Lakers finally lost. It had to happen sometime. TheColbert

lol troll thread, please lock.X360PS3AMD05

5 championships in the last 11 years.... The losers on the Celtics would kill to do what Kobe has done...-Halftime-

[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]5 championships in the last 11 years.... The losers on the Celtics would kill to do what Kobe has done...deuce4eva

Yeah I agree he is not the greatest leader but he is still one of the greatest players of all time.

All people will remember is all the championships.

They should have traded for Melo :?

Yeah I agree he is not the greatest leader but he is still one of the greatest players of all time.

All people will remember is all the championships.

They should have traded for Melo :?

metal_zombie

lol..who should have traded for melo? the lakers?melo lacks the killer instinct...kobe is evil and i like that.

5 championships in the last 11 years.... -Halftime-

When it rains it certainly pours, I agree

Him able to ride on Shaq's back for the first 3 and then get 2 of his own is great

When things aren't going great though he's unable to make his teams step up, he steps up a whole bunch it's just that his team watches him, says "that's nice", and then gives up.

haters gonna hate but for me im only 21 i barely remember michael playing so for me kobe is my michael. the guy has got 5 rings and we should cheer for him to win more because its very rare to see great players like him win that many rings. hate on haters. xbox360isgr8t

[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]5 championships in the last 11 years.... Jaysonguy

When it rains it certainly pours, I agree

Him able to ride on Shaq's back for the first 3 and then get 2 of his own is great

When things aren't going great though he's unable to make his teams step up, he steps up a whole bunch it's just that his team watches him, says "that's nice", and then gives up.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="-Halftime-"]5 championships in the last 11 years.... -Halftime-

When it rains it certainly pours, I agree

Him able to ride on Shaq's back for the first 3 and then get 2 of his own is great

When things aren't going great though he's unable to make his teams step up, he steps up a whole bunch it's just that his team watches him, says "that's nice", and then gives up.

More gifs less beefs!bobcheeseball

[QUOTE="bobcheeseball"]More gifs less beefs!Conscrumptured

lol..who should have traded for melo? the lakers?melo lacks the killer instinct...kobe is evil and i like that.

KBFloYd

They should have traded bynum or odom...artest I think melo kobe combo would work

[QUOTE All this money made on shoe deals and other endorsement contracts, they have MJ to thank for that. He was the blueprint, and everyone else is just following suit.

I hope ol MJ gives a lil thanks to The Doctor! (and ESPN, Sports Center, the video age....)

NBA.com

"Julius Erving, the great and wondrous "Dr. J," was the dominant player of his era, an innovator who changed the way the game was played. He was a wizard with the ball, performing feats never before seen: midair spins and whirls punctuated by powerful slam dunks. Erving was one of the first players to make extemporaneous individual expression an integral part of the game, setting the style of play that would prevail in the decades to follow."

"As a basketball player, Julius was the first to truly take the torch and become the spokesman for the NBA," said friend and former coach Billy Cunningham. "He understood what his role was and how important it was for him to conduct himself as a representative of the league. Julius was the first player I ever remember who transcended sports and was known by one name -- Doctor."

"...He also seized the opportunity to be a successful pitchman endorsing products and became one of the games' first players to have a shoe marketed under his name".