Roethlisberger over Palmer

I am responding to a thread i happen to come across when I was searching the net. That thread is below.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?board_id=m-1-938343&topic_id=m-1-40890170

Here is some info I would like to share.

roethlisberger vs Palmer

yards per pass is the most important stat in football and certainly when it comes to QB's. No stat aligns with winning

games more than yards per pass.

BigBen career 8.1 (elite)

Palmer career 7.3(very good)

Here is some more information.

I last updated stats below in Nov last season. the stats prove Roethlisberger performs at a hgher level at the critical times of the games. Hence , that's why he wins a lot.

Ben Roeth career 3rd down passing

62% completion percentage = EDGE TO BEN
8.1 Yards per attempt = EDGE TO BEN
3,054 passing Yards = EDGE TO BEN

CARSON PALMER CAREER 3RD DOWN PASSING

58% PERCENT COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
6.4 YARDS PER ATTEMPT
2961 PASSING YARDAGE

NOTE: Huge Difference between 8.1 yards per attempt and 6.4

make no mistake, when a team needs to throw on 3rd down,
Roethlisberger career third down numbers are clearly
better than Carson Palmer's.

--------------------------------------------------------------

BEN ROETH 1ST QUARTER PASSING CAREER

64% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE = EDGE TO BEN
9.8 YARDS PER ATTEMPT = EDGE TO BEN
2,870 YARDS = EDGE TO BEN

CARSON PALMER 1ST QTR PASSING

63% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
7.2 YARDS PER ATTEMPT
2,769 YARDS

As you can see Ben Roeth has the edge in every category for 1st
qtr passing in his career over palmer with the exception of a
few less passing yards.The yards per attempt is very telling.
roethlisberger moves the ball in big chunks in an unbelievably
efficient manner.
-----------------------------------------------------------
BEN ROETH 4TH QTR PASSING

62% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE = EDGE TO BEN
7.7 YARDS PER ATTEMPT = EDGE TO BEN
2,870 PASSING YARDS = EDGE TO BEN

CARSON PALMER 4TH QTR PASSING

59% COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
7.3 YARDS PER ATTEMPT
2,769 PASSING YARDS

------------------------------------------------------------
CAREER PASSES COMPLETED OVER 20 YARDS (since 2004)

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE & YARDS PER PASS ON THROWS AFTER THE 20TH PASS IN A GAME

2007 BEN ROETH = 63% 8.3 YARDS PER PASS

2006 CARSON PALMER = 63% 6.2 YARDS PER PASS

SUMMARY

BEN GETS THE EDGE JSUT ABOUT EVERYWHERE.

THE YARDS PER ATTEMPT ADVANTAGE IS VERY TELLING. VERY KEY STAT.

The only real passing advantage I can find for Palmer over Ben
is that Palmer has 88 TD passes vs Ben who has 61. but this
has more to do with the mentality of the 2 teams. The Steelers have
liked to run the ball close to the goal line and the bengals like
to throw.

There is no reason to think Palmer is the better Passer. None.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was Ben the main reason steelers went from 6-10 to 15-1?

week 4 Oct 3 W 28-17 vs Cincinnati Bengals//pitt had lead at half
Week 5 Oct 10 W 34-23 vs Cleveland Browns// pitt lead at half 27 1st half pts!
Week 6 Oct 17 W 24-20 at Dallas Cowboys // roethlisberger goes 21 for 25 against Parcells
Week 7 Bye Week
Week 8 Oct 31 W 34-20 vs New England Patriots //Pitt had 24-10 lead at half, 17 1st half off pts
Week 9 Nov 7 W 27-3 vs Philadelphia Eagles //pitt lead at half 21 1st half pts!
Week 10 Nov 14 W 24-10 at Cleveland Browns // pitt lead 14-3 at half
Week 11 Nov 21 W 19-14 at Cincinnati Bengals // one of few game , they had no lead at half
Week 12 Nov 28 W 16-7 vs Washington Redskins // pitt leads 10-0 at half
Week 13 Dec 5 W 17-16 at Jacksonville Jaguars //pitt leads at half- game winning drive by roeth
Week 14 Dec 12 W 17-6 vs New York Jets // pitt small lead at half
Week 15 Dec 18 W 33-30 at New York Giants //pitt lead at half 20 1st half points!
Week 16 Dec 26 W 20-7 vs Baltimore Ravens //pitt lead at half

2004 bettis

rushing yards by QTR

1st 165
2nd 233
3rd 217
4th 326 Illustrates that the rushing yards were racked up after Ben Go them the lead.

2005 Parker

1st QTR 226
2nd QTR 236
3rd QTR 491 once again the rushing yards were racked up in 2nd half

2004 Roethlisberger passer rating by QTr and amount of attempts

1st QTR 104% 76 pass attempts
2nd qtr 97% 91 pass attempts
3rd QTR 71% 63 pass attempts
4th QTR 118% 65 pass attempts

As you can see above, this ultra efficiecy in the 1st half enable the steelers to be
able to take leads in the 1sthalf and then run the ball in the 2nd half. You can even
see the drop in pass attempts from the first half to the 2nd half.

Why didn't this work the year before with Maddox? well as you can se below, Maddox was
to duplicate the ultra efficiency of Roethlisberger in the 1st QTR. Therefore Madox had
to throw the ball more to make up for the incompletions. He also had to throw the bal more
because roethlisberger nearly doubled up his yards per attempt avgover maddox avg in the
1st QTr. The difference between 6.5 yPa and 11.3 is an incredible difference.

2003 maddox

1st Qtr passer rating = 77
completion percentage = 56%
yards per attempt = 6.5

2004 roethlisberger

1st QTR passer rating = 104%
completion percentage = 67%
Yards per attempt = 11.3

2004 steelers passed early and did it so efficently that they rarely had to pass in the
2nd half. That's why they went 15-1. no other team could take a rookie QB and run the
ball as much as Pittsburgh did, cause their has never been a rookie QB average 8.9 yards
per attempt which is completely off the charts.

Hope this give you a better informed decision. Take Care.

The big difference is Ben isnt a passing QB, he is on a run first team.

Ben has 908 completions to 1436 attempts for 11673 yard while palmer has 1305 completions in 2036 attempts with 14899 yards.

Its easier to have a better YPA average if your not passing as often.

Either way I would rather have Brady or Manning (Peyton lol).

/thread

PS: Posting a book of stats = no one will read it. You should have summerized it all because no one is going to read all of that crap there. Nevermind no one will want to fact check that book. So you could have put in a stat about how many burgers ben eats vs palmer and no one would notice.

Hope this give you a better informed decision.Smartmonies

Wait... what decision were we making?

I prefer Ben to Carson Palmer, but Palmer gets leaned on a little more.

Appreciate all the factoids, but you may have missed the most important difference and what I feel sets Big Ben apart from all other QBs, his ability to shrug off tackles that would result in a loss of yardage for anyone else. Then there's number of wins and a Superbowl victory. Not to mention times that teammates almost crippled the other.

I prefer Ben to Carson Palmer, but Palmer gets leaned on a little more.

Appreciate all the factoids, but you may have missed the most important difference and what I feel sets Big Ben apart from all other QBs, his ability to shrug off tackles that would result in a loss of yardage for anyone else. Then there's number of wins and a Superbowl victory. Not to mention times that teammates almost crippled the other.

Second_Rook

Ability to shrug off tackles? Hasn't he been sacked close to 100 times over the last two years?

Ability to shrug off tackles? Hasn't he been sacked close to 100 times over the last two years?

Oleg_Huzwog

That's right shrug off tackles, he has been hit a lot more times than he was sacked. Close to 100 is correct 93, he still stands after hits that would knock down any other current QB.

I'll take Ben over Palmer any day.

Palmer is the only QB I know that can throw 25 picks and still get his jock ridden as an elite quarterback.

Ben is also strong off the field, he litterally shattered a car windshield with his face. And he's still a top QB in the league...talk about toughness. But then again he's on the same team as Joey Porter (was on) when he got shot and only missed one game.

After watching pretty much every game in Ben's NFL career I can say he has gotten out of some crazy situations. He gets sacked so much because of the poor offensive line. So of course what did the Steelers draft this year? RB, WR, LB...hmm. I understand they're trying to give him weapons but I would've like to see them get more than one OL. I trust the management though, if them (and Ben) say he needs weapons then get him weapons.

ben got overpaid too.milsteadboy

Their success actually relies on that defense. they should of got some offense linemen to protect. thats how they lost to the sorry a** jets.milsteadboy

Anyoen else find it ammusing this guy saw the thread when searching the internet then made an account here JUST to post this huge stat line to argue how palmer is worse then ben. Then never posted or logged back on orposted again.Just_Osmo

I don't need stats to form an opinion. In my opinion Palmer is better just because his supporting cast isn't even close to what Ben's is,goodlay

You mean Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzada, and Chris Henry?

Hello again. Just wanted to respond to some of posters Opinions.

To those of you that said "Ben wins because of Defense" My response to that was already posted in the initial post. I posted the entire 2004 regular season which showed that the Steelers had leads, and often substantial leads by halftime. This was due to Roethlisbergers efficiency which I presented with his 1st Qtr Passing averages. The previous year this did not work, cause Tommy maddox was simply non efficient. And when your QB (as Ben has) the 2nd best first QTR passer rating in the 1st QTR in last 3-4 years, then your team will often jump out to leads. Once your team jumps out to leads, you defence will always play better. In fact, the secret behind the Steeler defense is that the offense during the Roethlisberger era, has possessed the football and kept the defense fresh. Even Troy Polamalu has eluded to this many times.

To those of you that said, "pittsburgh is a running team" I answered that i nthe orignal post once again. I showed Bettis and Parkers rushing stats by QTr. As you can see, they rack up most of their rushing yards in the 2nd half. The scoring comes from the passing game in the first half, and then Cowher would shove the ball down the throats of the opponents in the 2nd half after they were worn down. Vice versa, please visit the Chargers. Tomlinson racks up is yards early in 1st and 2nd QTR, while Rivers passing stats by QTR get stronger as game goes on. This is a clear example of the running game opening up the passing game. where as in Pittsburgh, Ben passes early and often and then the RB's take over in the 2nd half.

If Carson Palmer would be better on third downs, this would keep his defense off the field and more fresh as well. If he performed up to Roethlisberger career 1st QTR efficiency, he would jump out to leads. Truth is Peyton Manning did not have a great defense for several years, yet willed his team to the playoffs each year. Palmer has had all of the offensive weapons one can ask for, but has been unable to carry his team on his back like Manning did for so many years.

Hello again. Just wanted to respond to some of posters Opinions.

To those of you that said "Ben wins because of Defense" My response to that was already posted in the initial post. I posted the entire 2004 regular season which showed that the Steelers had leads, and often substantial leads by halftime. This was due to Roethlisbergers efficiency which I presented with his 1st Qtr Passing averages. The previous year this did not work, cause Tommy maddox was simply non efficient. And when your QB (as Ben has) the 2nd best first QTR passer rating in the 1st QTR in last 3-4 years, then your team will often jump out to leads. Once your team jumps out to leads, you defence will always play better. In fact, the secret behind the Steeler defense is that the offense during the Roethlisberger era, has possessed the football and kept the defense fresh. Even Troy Polamalu has eluded to this many times.

To those of you that said, "pittsburgh is a running team" I answered that i nthe orignal post once again. I showed Bettis and Parkers rushing stats by QTr. As you can see, they rack up most of their rushing yards in the 2nd half. The scoring comes from the passing game in the first half, and then Cowher would shove the ball down the throats of the opponents in the 2nd half after they were worn down. Vice versa, please visit the Chargers. Tomlinson racks up is yards early in 1st and 2nd QTR, while Rivers passing stats by QTR get stronger as game goes on. This is a clear example of the running game opening up the passing game. where as in Pittsburgh, Ben passes early and often and then the RB's take over in the 2nd half.

If Carson Palmer would be better on third downs, this would keep his defense off the field and more fresh as well. If he performed up to Roethlisberger career 1st QTR efficiency, he would jump out to leads. Truth is Peyton Manning did not have a great defense for several years, yet willed his team to the playoffs each year. Palmer has had all of the offensive weapons one can ask for, but has been unable to carry his team on his back like Manning did for so many years.

Smartmonies

Who cares. They both suck compared to Brady and Peyton.

/thread

[QUOTE="Smartmonies"]

Hello again. Just wanted to respond to some of posters Opinions.

To those of you that said "Ben wins because of Defense" My response to that was already posted in the initial post. I posted the entire 2004 regular season which showed that the Steelers had leads, and often substantial leads by halftime. This was due to Roethlisbergers efficiency which I presented with his 1st Qtr Passing averages. The previous year this did not work, cause Tommy maddox was simply non efficient. And when your QB (as Ben has) the 2nd best first QTR passer rating in the 1st QTR in last 3-4 years, then your team will often jump out to leads. Once your team jumps out to leads, you defence will always play better. In fact, the secret behind the Steeler defense is that the offense during the Roethlisberger era, has possessed the football and kept the defense fresh. Even Troy Polamalu has eluded to this many times.

To those of you that said, "pittsburgh is a running team" I answered that i nthe orignal post once again. I showed Bettis and Parkers rushing stats by QTr. As you can see, they rack up most of their rushing yards in the 2nd half. The scoring comes from the passing game in the first half, and then Cowher would shove the ball down the throats of the opponents in the 2nd half after they were worn down. Vice versa, please visit the Chargers. Tomlinson racks up is yards early in 1st and 2nd QTR, while Rivers passing stats by QTR get stronger as game goes on. This is a clear example of the running game opening up the passing game. where as in Pittsburgh, Ben passes early and often and then the RB's take over in the 2nd half.

If Carson Palmer would be better on third downs, this would keep his defense off the field and more fresh as well. If he performed up to Roethlisberger career 1st QTR efficiency, he would jump out to leads. Truth is Peyton Manning did not have a great defense for several years, yet willed his team to the playoffs each year. Palmer has had all of the offensive weapons one can ask for, but has been unable to carry his team on his back like Manning did for so many years.

Just_Osmo

Who cares. They both suck compared to Brady and Peyton.

/thread

Incorrect. Manning was outclassed by Roethlisberger in the 2005 playoffs. This happened in Manning's builiding when he probably had his best team. Please revist the first half when Roethlisberger took the game over early for further info. They both have one SB. Roethlisberger is much younger.

Brady> Cheated. would have never won the 3 SB's without knowing the opponents defensive calls. Last year was the first time the Patriots actually had the talent offensively to deserve a SB. Tom Btrady's #1` trait is his ability to read defenses quickly. ANd now we know why. They recorded opponents and their "genius" assistant Ernie Adams broke the tapes down (often at halftime) and then assisted belichick via headset during the games. Just wait until May 13th. Brady is a fraud. a 6th round pick who benefited from cheating. Its a shame to be a Patriots fan and have to live with that. Good thing they went out and got Moss. Without Moss, and the video taping, Brady would be the 6th round pick everyone thought he was.

[QUOTE="goodlay"]I don't need stats to form an opinion. In my opinion Palmer is better just because his supporting cast isn't even close to what Ben's is,KaptainKorn

You mean Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzada, and Chris Henry?

Chris Henry isn't even a Bengal anymore and Chad will be gone soon. So compare TJ to this crowd of Hines Ward, Rashard Mendenhall, Willie Parker, Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller, and their top 3 rated defense in the entire NFL. Yeah, Ben has it real rough.

[QUOTE="Just_Osmo"][QUOTE="Smartmonies"]

Hello again. Just wanted to respond to some of posters Opinions.

To those of you that said "Ben wins because of Defense" My response to that was already posted in the initial post. I posted the entire 2004 regular season which showed that the Steelers had leads, and often substantial leads by halftime. This was due to Roethlisbergers efficiency which I presented with his 1st Qtr Passing averages. The previous year this did not work, cause Tommy maddox was simply non efficient. And when your QB (as Ben has) the 2nd best first QTR passer rating in the 1st QTR in last 3-4 years, then your team will often jump out to leads. Once your team jumps out to leads, you defence will always play better. In fact, the secret behind the Steeler defense is that the offense during the Roethlisberger era, has possessed the football and kept the defense fresh. Even Troy Polamalu has eluded to this many times.

To those of you that said, "pittsburgh is a running team" I answered that i nthe orignal post once again. I showed Bettis and Parkers rushing stats by QTr. As you can see, they rack up most of their rushing yards in the 2nd half. The scoring comes from the passing game in the first half, and then Cowher would shove the ball down the throats of the opponents in the 2nd half after they were worn down. Vice versa, please visit the Chargers. Tomlinson racks up is yards early in 1st and 2nd QTR, while Rivers passing stats by QTR get stronger as game goes on. This is a clear example of the running game opening up the passing game. where as in Pittsburgh, Ben passes early and often and then the RB's take over in the 2nd half.

If Carson Palmer would be better on third downs, this would keep his defense off the field and more fresh as well. If he performed up to Roethlisberger career 1st QTR efficiency, he would jump out to leads. Truth is Peyton Manning did not have a great defense for several years, yet willed his team to the playoffs each year. Palmer has had all of the offensive weapons one can ask for, but has been unable to carry his team on his back like Manning did for so many years.

Smartmonies

Who cares. They both suck compared to Brady and Peyton.

/thread

Incorrect. Manning was outclassed by Roethlisberger in the 2005 playoffs. This happened in Manning's builiding when he probably had his best team. Please revist the first half when Roethlisberger took the game over early for further info. They both have one SB. Roethlisberger is much younger.

Brady> Cheated. would have never won the 3 SB's without knowing the opponents defensive calls. Last year was the first time the Patriots actually had the talent offensively to deserve a SB. Tom Btrady's #1` trait is his ability to read defenses quickly. ANd now we know why. They recorded opponents and their "genius" assistant Ernie Adams broke the tapes down (often at halftime) and then assisted belichick via headset during the games. Just wait until May 13th. Brady is a fraud. a 6th round pick who benefited from cheating. Its a shame to be a Patriots fan and have to live with that. Good thing they went out and got Moss. Without Moss, and the video taping, Brady would be the 6th round pick everyone thought he was.

You dont know anything about football. please dont post. if you think the pats knew every defencive play the opponents were running you dont understand how signal calling works. I'll give you abit of information. there are always 2-3 signal callers standing side by side. 1 of them is the real play caller and the other 2 are dummys (you know why? BECAUSE SIGNAL STEALING HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE THE CREATION OF SPORTS) the chances of catching the correct signal relaying the play to the qb and having the qb reset the offence and then acually successfully runt he play all within 40 seconds is nearly imposible. Not to mention the part where you said they broke the tapes down at half time is stupid. Everyone knows at halftime all teams (NFL MLB) switch their signals. Some teams even do it every quarter. Plus, if you think they can break down 30 minutes of game footage during halftime then you need to open your eyes and stop being blind. I wan tto meet this superhuman who can break down all that tape in 15 minutes.

So again, dont post this nonsence.