If you had to rate MLB, NBA, NFL, and the NHL from worst shape (steroids, gambling, arrests, etc.) to best shape how would you rate them? Every league has issues and how do you view each one?
Which league is in the worst shape?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Easily 4) NHL (popularity is sooo low)
Easily 3) NBA (games being fixed is too much)
2) MLB (steroids are bad and the league seems to be a mess)
Easily 1) NFL (arrests are bad, but it's easily the best. Salary cap ending is a concern)
1) NFL
2) MLB
3) NBA
----------------------------------------------------------->4) NHL
I love Hockey. Hands down my favorite sport, but the NHL is in the worst shape.
Its actually starting to become more popular again, but still, as someone said, most of the Playoff games were on Versus.
Also, their current battle with MSG is NOT a good thing for anyone involved. The Rangers make more money than any other US Franchise and are one of the oldest franchises in existence. They've been playing in the MSG for years.
Now MSG (run by Shmu...I mean James Dolan) wanted control of the website, the league and MSG exchanged Law suits, now it appears MSG violated league constitution and can be STRIPPED of ownership.
MSG owns the Knicks, Rangers and the MSG itself (and MSG is owned by Cablevision, the major cable company in the Tri-State Area). IF MSG is stripped of ownership, then the Rangers may need to find a new home. Anyone whose ever been the Garden knows that its probably the easiest place to get to in NYC.
AND TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE. MSG Networks air Rangers, Islanders, Sabres and Devils games. MSG could easily say "okay, not more NHL Hockey in the Garden and on our Networks."
Yeah, when the weekend rolls around you can find racing on all three days. All different kinds of racing and usually 3 days coverage on all NASCAR events. Can't really say the same for Hockey these days. I think Hockey is one of those sports I would love to play more then actually watch a game. It seems like a lot of fun with lots of contact so that would be two big pluses.
I remember watching The Mighty Ducks when I was a kid and wishing they had hockey in my area but they didn't so it was all about Basketball, Football, and some Baseball. It just seems like a really expensive sport too. The pads, skates, stick, and helmet must cost some dough, and I can't imagine what its like for goalie equipment.
I think this topic has strayed what from what Lostboy meant. He was referring to issues in the 4 major pro leagues, and all you guys say the NHL is in the worst shape due to popularity? Thats pretty stupid and ignorant to say the least.
The NHL will always be the minority sport in that respect. But in comparison to the other 3 league's issues, there is no way the NHL is in worse shape. And its new CBA may not be perfect but its a start after that lockout crap...
So how can the MLB be in such great shape with all the steroid and performance enhancing drug issues and allegations? I can't believe the league let Barry Bonds get away with it for so long and ESPN also would go "ga-ga" for the guy. If that doesn't give a league a black eye, I don't know what does.
Then you got the NBA which is ruining college basketball and turning what once was the greatest players in the world into ego driven non-team players. How have our international squads done in the World Championships and the Olympics lately? Exactly. Plus there are character issues and of course the alleged fixing of games by the refs pressured by NBA execs to extend playoffs and TV revenue. Yeah, thats probably not a big deal, right?
How about the NFL and the ridiculous rookie contracts being issued to guys who haven't even played a down? That and all the guys that are getting in trouble with the law for guns, drugs, murders, and DUI's. Then you got these players who want their contracts restructured after playing 1 year of a 5 year deal for example. And now the league can barely let players celebrate their touchdowns anymore w/o getting a 15 yard penalty! That and the whole Spygate thing too...
So I guess my order from worst to better is...NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
NHL: No steroid problem because I don't think it's even tested for (I'm convinced Selanne uses steroids). It's not very popular outside of Canada although it seems to be gaining some popularity.UssjTrunks
I think they do test for it, but it's probably not very thorough. They don't even go around and measure the goalies' pads as they say they do.
good news for the NHL though, is ratings were much higher this year. Both versus and NBC saw 5 year best's for NHL games during playoffs/finals, and the winter classic was a huge success.
The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
The NBA follows behind close.
MLB- well even when players admit to steroids, fans still pay their hard earn money, and attendences have been breaking records.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
mvphalo8
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I think this topic has strayed what from what Lostboy meant. He was referring to issues in the 4 major pro leagues, and all you guys say the NHL is in the worst shape due to popularity? Thats pretty stupid and ignorant to say the least.
The NHL will always be the minority sport in that respect. But in comparison to the other 3 league's issues, there is no way the NHL is in worse shape. And its new CBA may not be perfect but its a start after that lockout crap...
So how can the MLB be in such great shape with all the steroid and performance enhancing drug issues and allegations? I can't believe the league let Barry Bonds get away with it for so long and ESPN also would go "ga-ga" for the guy. If that doesn't give a league a black eye, I don't know what does.
Then you got the NBA which is ruining college basketball and turning what once was the greatest players in the world into ego driven non-team players. How have our international squads done in the World Championships and the Olympics lately? Exactly. Plus there are character issues and of course the alleged fixing of games by the refs pressured by NBA execs to extend playoffs and TV revenue. Yeah, thats probably not a big deal, right?
How about the NFL and the ridiculous rookie contracts being issued to guys who haven't even played a down? That and all the guys that are getting in trouble with the law for guns, drugs, murders, and DUI's. Then you got these players who want their contracts restructured after playing 1 year of a 5 year deal for example. And now the league can barely let players celebrate their touchdowns anymore w/o getting a 15 yard penalty! That and the whole Spygate thing too...
So I guess my order from worst to better is...NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Los9090
Ummmm no
All the other sports have good things to try to offset the bad
Who cares that the NHL doesn't have anything bad going on?
- 1. Because no one even follows the sport so really anything could be going on and no one would care
- 2. The NHL isn't doing anything good either
It would be one thing if the NHL has some sort of nationwide coverage and with that coverage they were able to keep their noses clean and improve their product. Instead the sports isn't available on a nationwide level, no one knows ANY of the players, and the league keeps on going down instead of up.
So when it comes to worst shape it's the NHL because the resounding idea about the league is that it's awful and unwanted nationwide.
[QUOTE="MasterNinja49"]It definitly has to be NHL followed by MLB at two.Los9090
Yeah? Whats your reasoning behind that?
Lostboy said "issues". Popularity is an issue.
To defend Hockey a bit here, in NYC when the Rangers are in the playoffs, trust me the city is going nuts for them. They love the Rangers.
Also here in the Bay Area, the Sharks have a very loyal following. It really depends on where you are.
Is it as popular as the other sports? Absolutely not, but lets not say things like "nobody follows it" cause thats not true at all.
[QUOTE="mvphalo8"]The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
Los9090
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I will tell you two on the field issues the NFL does not have to worry about that the NHL does. Players attempting to kill each other (literaly) during the game, and the racial divide.
Do you think that the MLS has surpassed the NHL as far as popularity goes in the US?msjr78
Nah, it's about the same level
Actually the number one guy in MLS is more recognizable then the lead guy in the NHL though.
NASCAR and the PGA has passed the NHL. Soon you'll be able to add the senior PGA to that list.
My Order is, I am judging based on actually watching the games not on rating or popularity.
Worst = NBA,why, well this league is completely fixed in my eyes and has been for a long time. Nobody really knows what a foul is, star players are given huge advantages, a 48 minute game take 3 to 3.5 hours to finish. This is the most girlie contact sport their by far, "You touched me, its a foul" The whole basketball rule book in the NBA does not exsist and it is obvious how much fixing is done through out the year. Why the worst, because I wont watch anymore and I am replacing it with NHL.
Middle = MLB AND NFL. I really dont care about Steroids or players personal mishaps. At least the actual games are intact.
Best = NHL, MLS - These leagues are doing everything to stay out of trouble and bring the pure sport to you every night in and night out. MLS just needs better players.
Worst Sports Network = ESPN = no sport just drama = network for Drama Queens.
[QUOTE="msjr78"]Do you think that the MLS has surpassed the NHL as far as popularity goes in the US?Jaysonguy
Nah, it's about the same level
Actually the number one guy in MLS is more recognizable then the lead guy in the NHL though.
NASCAR and the PGA has passed the NHL. Soon you'll be able to add the senior PGA to that list.
That's not fair though. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world. If MLS brings in one of the most popular soccer players in the world, that doesn't make MLS more popular. All that shows is soccer is more popular in the world than hockey.
[QUOTE="msjr78"]Do you think that the MLS has surpassed the NHL as far as popularity goes in the US?Jaysonguy
Nah, it's about the same level
Actually the number one guy in MLS is more recognizable then the lead guy in the NHL though.
NASCAR and the PGA has passed the NHL. Soon you'll be able to add the senior PGA to that list.
Your really being unfair to the NHL.
Golf has Tiger Woods. Without Tiger Woods its just not as exciting and not nearly as under the microscope.
NASCAR is very popular, can't dispute that.
But David Beckham is so known because not only his soccer playing, but also because of his wife. In the US we're celebrity obsessed.
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="msjr78"]Do you think that the MLS has surpassed the NHL as far as popularity goes in the US?InterpolWilco
Nah, it's about the same level
Actually the number one guy in MLS is more recognizable then the lead guy in the NHL though.
NASCAR and the PGA has passed the NHL. Soon you'll be able to add the senior PGA to that list.
Your really being unfair to the NHL.
Golf has Tiger Woods. Without Tiger Woods its just not as exciting and not nearly as under the microscope.
NASCAR is very popular, can't dispute that.
But David Beckham is so known because not only his soccer playing, but also because of his wife. In the US we're celebrity obsessed.
Beckham really isn't that great anyways... I'm not saying he's bad, but he isn't that great...
Without Tiger, the PGA is absolutely nothing. Throughout history, without that one premier golfer of the era the PGA is garbage. Ask the average person, even sports fan, to name more than 5 golfers in the history of the tour not including current ones and I'd like to see the responses.
The only thing that keeps NASCAR going are these two facts: it's outside, and it's once a week on a weekend. If those two change that "sport" is also nothing.
[QUOTE="Los9090"]So I guess my order from worst to better is...NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Jaysonguy
Ummmm no
All the other sports have good things to try to offset the bad
Who cares that the NHL doesn't have anything bad going on?
- 1. Because no one even follows the sport so really anything could be going on and no one would care
- 2. The NHL isn't doing anything good either
It would be one thing if the NHL has some sort of nationwide coverage and with that coverage they were able to keep their noses clean and improve their product. Instead the sports isn't available on a nationwide level, no one knows ANY of the players, and the league keeps on going down instead of up.
So when it comes to worst shape it's the NHL because the resounding idea about the league is that it's awful and unwanted nationwide.
So in other words, you are an NHL hater that obviously doesn't like hockey so you crap on it just because you don't know anything about the sport? Thats what you sound like, you're basing all your info on popularity which is lame. Especially with that b.s. comment you made about the Senior PGA surpassing the NHL...and by the way, NASCAR attendance has decreased and teams are having issues staying afloat thanks to the rising gas prices.
So you state no one knows any of the players in the NHL...okay, and you think the average sports fan can name 5 PGA golfers that were in the US Open besides Tiger Woods? How about 5 NASCAR drivers? Yeah good luck with that.
The NHL isn't going down at all, attendance has gone up and the salary cap has been able to go up from $39 million after the lockout to $56 million. There is a reason for that. But you wouldn't know that...maybe if ESPN got their heads out of their butts and realized they can make money airing games again you would sort of change your opinion.
[QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="mvphalo8"]The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
BobbyTee26
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I will tell you two on the field issues the NFL does not have to worry about that the NHL does. Players attempting to kill each other (literaly) during the game, and the racial divide.
What racial divide? Yeah there are much fewer Black players in the NHL, but there isn't any racial tension or anything. Fights never become that serious either. It's a method that players use to police the game themselves.
[QUOTE="BobbyTee26"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="mvphalo8"]The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
CJL182
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I will tell you two on the field issues the NFL does not have to worry about that the NHL does. Players attempting to kill each other (literaly) during the game, and the racial divide.
What racial divide? Yeah there are much fewer Black players in the NHL, but there isn't any racial tension or anything. Fights never become that serious either. It's a method that players use to police the game themselves.
yah i was confused when he said there was a racial divide. Just because a few players took it to far(Simon) doesn't mean that every player is out with the intent to send someone to the hospital. Like said above, fighting, hitting, etc is used as a policing method. Seriously, if someone is roughing up your star player, your going to give him wake up call, just send a message to him, but it's not like your going to take your stick and gash him in the jaw.
[QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="MasterNinja49"]It definitly has to be NHL followed by MLB at two.Los9090
Yeah? Whats your reasoning behind that?
Lostboy said "issues". Popularity is an issue.
That doesn't make it the "worst" shape.
At the end, the NFL can have all the arrests, the NBA can have all the corruption and the MLB can have all the steroids, but if it has viewers it'll remain. But if it's not popular, it'll go out of business.
I'd also like to add that ESPN actually hired Don Cherry to help for analysis of the NHL playoffs.
The more I think about it, the more I think the NHL isn't in nearly as much trouble as I thought.
And a personal anecdote. I went to a bar, and you know what a group of people were talking about? "Whose gonna draft Stamkos." That should tell you something about the growth of the NHL.
I'd also like to add that ESPN actually hired Don Cherry to help for analysis of the NHL playoffs.
The more I think about it, the more I think the NHL isn't in nearly as much trouble as I thought.
And a personal anecdote. I went to a bar, and you know what a group of people were talking about? "Whose gonna draft Stamkos." That should tell you something about the growth of the NHL.
InterpolWilco
The NHL is on the rise, but slowly lol. They really need to get back onto ESPN, but stupid Bettman won't do it. I liked the Lightning's "Seen Stamkos?" campaign lol. It would've been really interesting if some GM gave Jay Feaster an incredible deal and they deat away the top pick and another team drafted Stamkos lol.
[QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="MasterNinja49"]It definitly has to be NHL followed by MLB at two.manningbowl135
Yeah? Whats your reasoning behind that?
Lostboy said "issues". Popularity is an issue.
That doesn't make it the "worst" shape.
At the end, the NFL can have all the arrests, the NBA can have all the corruption and the MLB can have all the steroids, but if it has viewers it'll remain. But if it's not popular, it'll go out of business.
You're something else, the NHL is not in any kind of danger of going out of business. Teams at least have their local broadcasts...if there are leagues that are in trouble, it would be the minor professional leagues.
[QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="manningbowl135"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="MasterNinja49"]It definitly has to be NHL followed by MLB at two.Los9090
Yeah? Whats your reasoning behind that?
Lostboy said "issues". Popularity is an issue.
That doesn't make it the "worst" shape.
At the end, the NFL can have all the arrests, the NBA can have all the corruption and the MLB can have all the steroids, but if it has viewers it'll remain. But if it's not popular, it'll go out of business.
You're something else, the NHL is not in any kind of danger of going out of business. Teams at least have their local broadcasts...if there are leagues that are in trouble, it would be the minor professional leagues.
He said which league is in the worst shape. The NHL is the least popular major sport and shows no signs of getting out of the cellar. My point is, the NFL can have all the arrests it wants, but come November and that showdown between Patriots and Colts that doesn't really matter b/c both teams will make playoffs easily will get more viewers than a stanley cup game. None of the leagues are threatened by their problems. The NHL has become a punchline b/c of it's popularity. How can other teams be in worse shape? Explain to me. If the NHL is not popular, it's in trouble b/c the league is not growing. It's actually in decline since the days before the lockout. The NFL may have arrests, but it's booming. How can a league that's most popular in the country and will stay that way for awhile than a league that's in the cellar and will stay there for awhile?
I don't think your idea of "worst shape" is the same as mine.
[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Los9090"]So I guess my order from worst to better is...NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Los9090
Ummmm no
All the other sports have good things to try to offset the bad
Who cares that the NHL doesn't have anything bad going on?
- 1. Because no one even follows the sport so really anything could be going on and no one would care
- 2. The NHL isn't doing anything good either
It would be one thing if the NHL has some sort of nationwide coverage and with that coverage they were able to keep their noses clean and improve their product. Instead the sports isn't available on a nationwide level, no one knows ANY of the players, and the league keeps on going down instead of up.
So when it comes to worst shape it's the NHL because the resounding idea about the league is that it's awful and unwanted nationwide.
So in other words, you are an NHL hater that obviously doesn't like hockey so you crap on it just because you don't know anything about the sport? Thats what you sound like, you're basing all your info on popularity which is lame. Especially with that b.s. comment you made about the Senior PGA surpassing the NHL...and by the way, NASCAR attendance has decreased and teams are having issues staying afloat thanks to the rising gas prices.
So you state no one knows any of the players in the NHL...okay, and you think the average sports fan can name 5 PGA golfers that were in the US Open besides Tiger Woods? How about 5 NASCAR drivers? Yeah good luck with that.
The NHL isn't going down at all, attendance has gone up and the salary cap has been able to go up from $39 million after the lockout to $56 million. There is a reason for that. But you wouldn't know that...maybe if ESPN got their heads out of their butts and realized they can make money airing games again you would sort of change your opinion.
No, in other words I'm a realist who can see that the NHL is done. It's not weak, it's not faltering, it's done.
Popularity is the most important thing, if no one watches your sport you no longer have a sport. I love how you're saying "well no one watches but who cares?"
As far as the NASCAR quote, you're wrong. NASCAR gives FREE GAS to all for sanctioned races AND practices AND tests. The problem comes from traveling from race to race and teams have cut down on how many side trips they make. The sport is just fine with gas prices as they are since it's FREE.
No one knows any of the players in the NHL. Wayne is still the biggest draw. You just had the finals with the premiere player in the entire NHL and no one could pick him out in a crowd.
As for those finals? You had the premiere player going up against one of the premiere teams offered to a nationwide audience and it's peak only hit 4.0.
So that sport is doing well? People say that it's doing so bad on TV because people can't find it but when it comes to national broadcast on NBC it only got a 4? People missed it so much they decided not to tune in?
Know what the peak was for the NBA's finals? 10.7
MLB's peak? 10.6
Know what the Superbowl ranked? 43.3
Now I know you're going to say, the fans going to games are important, sure thing.
Well in Detroit where they were the best team all year people decided to show their support by going to the games less. The Red Wings' home audience shrunk 1154 fans per game last season, or to put it another way...
47,314 fans didn't bother going to the games last season.
19 NHL teams didn't reach max occupancy for games last season. Heck, 12 of them didn't even get to 90% during the season.
The NHL's attendance going up (less then 2% by the way) is all smoke and mirrors too.
The NHL allowed some arenas to be filled past 100% occupancy which means that an arena that housed 101.5% of people offset the lower numbers.
Also let's do a little comparison in attendance
The NHL averaged 17,308 at home last season. A sport that has close to nothing for TV coverage. For almost all fans you have to see the games in person to see the games.
The NBA averaged 17,327 at home last season. A sport that has close to 30 games nationwide every single week. Everyone can watch their favorite teams without having to go to the games.
The NHL is in the worst shape because it's done.
The NFL, NBA, and MLB are all in better shape because they're still going
The NHL stopped years ago.
[QUOTE="CJL182"][QUOTE="BobbyTee26"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="mvphalo8"]The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
hockey73
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I will tell you two on the field issues the NFL does not have to worry about that the NHL does. Players attempting to kill each other (literaly) during the game, and the racial divide.
What racial divide? Yeah there are much fewer Black players in the NHL, but there isn't any racial tension or anything. Fights never become that serious either. It's a method that players use to police the game themselves.
yah i was confused when he said there was a racial divide. Just because a few players took it to far(Simon) doesn't mean that every player is out with the intent to send someone to the hospital. Like said above, fighting, hitting, etc is used as a policing method. Seriously, if someone is roughing up your star player, your going to give him wake up call, just send a message to him, but it's not like your going to take your stick and gash him in the jaw.
So now you guys don't remember Bertuzzi trying to kill Brashear a few years back? Not to metion one of my favorite players, Ty Domi, did the same thing. And hockeys racial divide goes from top to bottom, all the way down to pee-wee sports. Baseball, Basketball, Football, even Golf and Soccer all have programs that reach out to youth of all nationalities. Tell of a program that does that for Hockey? Don't worry, I'll wait!!!lol
[QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Los9090"]So I guess my order from worst to better is...NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Jaysonguy
Ummmm no
So when it comes to worst shape it's the NHL because the resounding idea about the league is that it's awful and unwanted nationwide.
So in other words, you are an NHL hater that obviously doesn't like hockey so you crap on it just because you don't know anything about the sport? Thats what you sound like, you're basing all your info on popularity which is lame. Especially with that b.s. comment you made about the Senior PGA surpassing the NHL...and by the way, NASCAR attendance has decreased and teams are having issues staying afloat thanks to the rising gas prices.
So you state no one knows any of the players in the NHL...okay, and you think the average sports fan can name 5 PGA golfers that were in the US Open besides Tiger Woods? How about 5 NASCAR drivers? Yeah good luck with that.
The NHL isn't going down at all, attendance has gone up and the salary cap has been able to go up from $39 million after the lockout to $56 million. There is a reason for that. But you wouldn't know that...maybe if ESPN got their heads out of their butts and realized they can make money airing games again you would sort of change your opinion.
No, in other words I'm a realist who can see that the NHL is done. It's not weak, it's not faltering, it's done.
Popularity is the most important thing, if no one watches your sport you no longer have a sport. I love how you're saying "well no one watches but who cares?"
As far as the NASCAR quote, you're wrong. NASCAR gives FREE GAS to all for sanctioned races AND practices AND tests. The problem comes from traveling from race to race and teams have cut down on how many side trips they make. The sport is just fine with gas prices as they are since it's FREE.
No one knows any of the players in the NHL. Wayne is still the biggest draw. You just had the finals with the premiere player in the entire NHL and no one could pick him out in a crowd.
As for those finals? You had the premiere player going up against one of the premiere teams offered to a nationwide audience and it's peak only hit 4.0.
So that sport is doing well? People say that it's doing so bad on TV because people can't find it but when it comes to national broadcast on NBC it only got a 4? People missed it so much they decided not to tune in?
Know what the peak was for the NBA's finals? 10.7
MLB's peak? 10.6
Know what the Superbowl ranked? 43.3
Now I know you're going to say, the fans going to games are important, sure thing.
Well in Detroit where they were the best team all year people decided to show their support by going to the games less. The Red Wings' home audience shrunk 1154 fans per game last season, or to put it another way...
47,314 fans didn't bother going to the games last season.
19 NHL teams didn't reach max occupancy for games last season. Heck, 12 of them didn't even get to 90% during the season.
The NHL's attendance going up (less then 2% by the way) is all smoke and mirrors too.
The NHL allowed some arenas to be filled past 100% occupancy which means that an arena that housed 101.5% of people offset the lower numbers.
Also let's do a little comparison in attendance
The NHL averaged 17,308 at home last season. A sport that has close to nothing for TV coverage. For almost all fans you have to see the games in person to see the games.
The NHL is in the worst shape because it's done.
The NFL, NBA, and MLB are all in better shape because they're still going
The NHL stopped years ago.
I know that the NHL is the least popular to the other 3 pro leagues, but at least it doesn't have the internal problems with its players that have plagued the other 3...don't worry I'm not just about hockey, I love most sports, but hockey and the NHL is my favorite.
You make excellent points (I didn't know that about NASCAR, but fans still have to drive to those tracks) but then you showcase how conceited you are by stating that the NHL is done...yeah you wish. Thats not being realistic at all, that is just you being a jerk. What you think the league is going out of business? Its not even losing money nor have their been statements of such issued by the league that it is in trouble. You sound like those haters from the lockout year who proudly proclaimed that it was done, and its still here and doing well for itself on its terms.
On attendance, every team has at least a local broadcast, how can you say fans have to see the games live to see their favorite teams since it is not on TV? Out of town fans can get those satellite packages too or watch the games online. On Detroit they weren't selling out like they should have been due to the well publicized economic issues in the area. Then for those teams that don't sell out, thats Bettman's fault for putting teams in non-traditional markets...like Phoenix, Sunrise, FL, and Atlanta.
And what are you talking about Wayne being the biggest draw? You know he retired 9 years ago right? Oh and their isn't a standout premeir player in the NHL. There are two, Crosby and Ovechkin.
[QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="Los9090"]So I guess my order from worst to better is...NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL
Jaysonguy
Ummmm no
All the other sports have good things to try to offset the bad
Who cares that the NHL doesn't have anything bad going on?
- 1. Because no one even follows the sport so really anything could be going on and no one would care
- 2. The NHL isn't doing anything good either
It would be one thing if the NHL has some sort of nationwide coverage and with that coverage they were able to keep their noses clean and improve their product. Instead the sports isn't available on a nationwide level, no one knows ANY of the players, and the league keeps on going down instead of up.
So when it comes to worst shape it's the NHL because the resounding idea about the league is that it's awful and unwanted nationwide.
So in other words, you are an NHL hater that obviously doesn't like hockey so you crap on it just because you don't know anything about the sport? Thats what you sound like, you're basing all your info on popularity which is lame. Especially with that b.s. comment you made about the Senior PGA surpassing the NHL...and by the way, NASCAR attendance has decreased and teams are having issues staying afloat thanks to the rising gas prices.
So you state no one knows any of the players in the NHL...okay, and you think the average sports fan can name 5 PGA golfers that were in the US Open besides Tiger Woods? How about 5 NASCAR drivers? Yeah good luck with that.
The NHL isn't going down at all, attendance has gone up and the salary cap has been able to go up from $39 million after the lockout to $56 million. There is a reason for that. But you wouldn't know that...maybe if ESPN got their heads out of their butts and realized they can make money airing games again you would sort of change your opinion.
No, in other words I'm a realist who can see that the NHL is done. It's not weak, it's not faltering, it's done.
Popularity is the most important thing, if no one watches your sport you no longer have a sport. I love how you're saying "well no one watches but who cares?"
As far as the NASCAR quote, you're wrong. NASCAR gives FREE GAS to all for sanctioned races AND practices AND tests. The problem comes from traveling from race to race and teams have cut down on how many side trips they make. The sport is just fine with gas prices as they are since it's FREE.
No one knows any of the players in the NHL. Wayne is still the biggest draw. You just had the finals with the premiere player in the entire NHL and no one could pick him out in a crowd.
As for those finals? You had the premiere player going up against one of the premiere teams offered to a nationwide audience and it's peak only hit 4.0.
So that sport is doing well? People say that it's doing so bad on TV because people can't find it but when it comes to national broadcast on NBC it only got a 4? People missed it so much they decided not to tune in?
Know what the peak was for the NBA's finals? 10.7
MLB's peak? 10.6
Know what the Superbowl ranked? 43.3
Now I know you're going to say, the fans going to games are important, sure thing.
Well in Detroit where they were the best team all year people decided to show their support by going to the games less. The Red Wings' home audience shrunk 1154 fans per game last season, or to put it another way...
47,314 fans didn't bother going to the games last season.
19 NHL teams didn't reach max occupancy for games last season. Heck, 12 of them didn't even get to 90% during the season.
The NHL's attendance going up (less then 2% by the way) is all smoke and mirrors too.
The NHL allowed some arenas to be filled past 100% occupancy which means that an arena that housed 101.5% of people offset the lower numbers.
Also let's do a little comparison in attendance
The NHL averaged 17,308 at home last season. A sport that has close to nothing for TV coverage. For almost all fans you have to see the games in person to see the games.
The NBA averaged 17,327 at home last season. A sport that has close to 30 games nationwide every single week. Everyone can watch their favorite teams without having to go to the games.
The NHL is in the worst shape because it's done.
The NFL, NBA, and MLB are all in better shape because they're still going
The NHL stopped years ago.
What are you talking about? If people want to watch their teams they will watch the local broadcast.
Also, the NBA's attendence as a whole was terrible, some markets didn't even reach 70%. The NHL didn't drop below 80% anywhere. Furthermore, the NBA finals ratings last year peaked at 6.5. Better than 4.0? Yes, but to say the NHL is done is ignorance, especially in comparison to the NBA.
[QUOTE="hockey73"][QUOTE="CJL182"][QUOTE="BobbyTee26"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="mvphalo8"]The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
BobbyTee26
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I will tell you two on the field issues the NFL does not have to worry about that the NHL does. Players attempting to kill each other (literaly) during the game, and the racial divide.
What racial divide? Yeah there are much fewer Black players in the NHL, but there isn't any racial tension or anything. Fights never become that serious either. It's a method that players use to police the game themselves.
yah i was confused when he said there was a racial divide. Just because a few players took it to far(Simon) doesn't mean that every player is out with the intent to send someone to the hospital. Like said above, fighting, hitting, etc is used as a policing method. Seriously, if someone is roughing up your star player, your going to give him wake up call, just send a message to him, but it's not like your going to take your stick and gash him in the jaw.
So now you guys don't remember Bertuzzi trying to kill Brashear a few years back? Not to metion one of my favorite players, Ty Domi, did the same thing. And hockeys racial divide goes from top to bottom, all the way down to pee-wee sports. Baseball, Basketball, Football, even Golf and Soccer all have programs that reach out to youth of all nationalities. Tell of a program that does that for Hockey? Don't worry, I'll wait!!!lol
Great example, YMCA. They have hockey programs from grade 1-12, then from there adult programs. Thats where i started, there were quite a few minorities(myself included), the coaches were extremely helpful. Everyone was supportive, the slogan even being "Fun First, Winning Second."
And you mentioned 3 people, Bertuzzi, Brashear, and Domi. From the looks of it, you don't follow hockey very closely, or else you would know that all three of them are instigators. There meant to take a beating and deal a beating out. so it isn't shocking that when either of these players got into a game, there would be fighting, some cheap shots, etc. Now is Bertuzzi a racist for ending Steve Moores career, who also is white? NO, the answer is, Bertuzzi is Bertuzzi, he has a anger problem, not a race problem.
Hmm, let's see. Historical golfers? Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Byron Nelson, Seve Ballesteros. Want me to keep going?Without Tiger, the PGA is absolutely nothing. Throughout history, without that one premier golfer of the era the PGA is garbage. Ask the average person, even sports fan, to name more than 5 golfers in the history of the tour not including current ones and I'd like to see the responses.
The only thing that keeps NASCAR going are these two facts: it's outside, and it's once a week on a weekend. If those two change that "sport" is also nothing.
-Dionysus-
[QUOTE="-Dionysus-"]Hmm, let's see. Historical golfers? Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Ben Hogan, Gary Player, Byron Nelson, Seve Ballesteros. Want me to keep going?Without Tiger, the PGA is absolutely nothing. Throughout history, without that one premier golfer of the era the PGA is garbage. Ask the average person, even sports fan, to name more than 5 golfers in the history of the tour not including current ones and I'd like to see the responses.
The only thing that keeps NASCAR going are these two facts: it's outside, and it's once a week on a weekend. If those two change that "sport" is also nothing.
msjr78
Sure, since your single response represents the entire public and completely smashes my point.
Also, who is that women in your sig? I don't get G4.
[QUOTE="BobbyTee26"][QUOTE="hockey73"][QUOTE="CJL182"][QUOTE="BobbyTee26"][QUOTE="Los9090"][QUOTE="mvphalo8"]The NHL is in the worst shape, and it's a shame because that was a heck of a Stanley Cup. You can also tell they're in bad shape when they're draft is on a Friday night.
NFL- league that's doing good. Unless you're a Cinncy Bengal when you're making the noise in NFL news, and it's not good.
hockey73
Bad shape because the Draft is on a Friday? Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard...what does that have to do with the state of a league?
And you think only the Bengals are having brushes with the law? How about Buffalo's Marshaun Lynch and his vehicle hit and run on a woman at 3 a.m? Pacman, I mean Adam Jones do I need to go futher there? Marvin Harrison's link to a shooting? Jevon Kearse, Cedric Benson, Dwayne Jarret, Darren Stone, and Jared Allen's DUI's and issues with alcohol
I will tell you two on the field issues the NFL does not have to worry about that the NHL does. Players attempting to kill each other (literaly) during the game, and the racial divide.
What racial divide? Yeah there are much fewer Black players in the NHL, but there isn't any racial tension or anything. Fights never become that serious either. It's a method that players use to police the game themselves.
yah i was confused when he said there was a racial divide. Just because a few players took it to far(Simon) doesn't mean that every player is out with the intent to send someone to the hospital. Like said above, fighting, hitting, etc is used as a policing method. Seriously, if someone is roughing up your star player, your going to give him wake up call, just send a message to him, but it's not like your going to take your stick and gash him in the jaw.
So now you guys don't remember Bertuzzi trying to kill Brashear a few years back? Not to metion one of my favorite players, Ty Domi, did the same thing. And hockeys racial divide goes from top to bottom, all the way down to pee-wee sports. Baseball, Basketball, Football, even Golf and Soccer all have programs that reach out to youth of all nationalities. Tell of a program that does that for Hockey? Don't worry, I'll wait!!!lol
Great example, YMCA. They have hockey programs from grade 1-12, then from there adult programs. Thats where i started, there were quite a few minorities(myself included), the coaches were extremely helpful. Everyone was supportive, the slogan even being "Fun First, Winning Second."
And you mentioned 3 people, Bertuzzi, Brashear, and Domi. From the looks of it, you don't follow hockey very closely, or else you would know that all three of them are instigators. There meant to take a beating and deal a beating out. so it isn't shocking that when either of these players got into a game, there would be fighting, some cheap shots, etc. Now is Bertuzzi a racist for ending Steve Moores career, who also is white? NO, the answer is, Bertuzzi is Bertuzzi, he has a anger problem, not a race problem.
Agreed, Bertuzzi is not racist, but he's a fool with anger management issues who is still somehow in the NHL. Youth hockey is continuously growing and there are many programs throughout the country. Willie O'Ree, the first Black player to ever play in the NHL, goes around the country and tries to help underprivelaged children develop an interest in hockey. He, and some current NHL players as well, spends the day teaching kids how to skate and learn the basics of ice hockey. It doesn't matter who the kids are, they just have to show up. I've read that ice hockey is the fastest growing sport among females as well. San Jose, a non traditional hockey market, just recently hosted the largest female hockey tournament ever in the United States.
Pay attention.
The NHL is not in a decline. Revenues have gone up every year since the lock out ended.
Pay attention.
syztem
More smoke and mirrors
Know where the majority (and when I say majority I don't mean 51% I mean higher then 80) of that revenue comes from?
Raising ticket prices
A league cannot grow when it's only form of income is the fan. There's no real TV contract to make money, there's no endorsements to fall back on for revenue, it's all on the back of the fan.
The numbers are all fake, they're all obscuring the facts, and everyone can see it.
I quote....
"The other big losers are the fans, who are the largest contributors to the increase in revenue. As the owners and players waged a propaganda war during the lockout, one of the carrots dangled by Bettman was the suggestion ticket prices would be more affordable in the new order. There were some deals as teams tried to woo fans back after the lockout, but ticket prices have never been greater than they are today."
Knowledge is power!
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