1up- MS Knew About 360 Defects Before Launch

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spike6566

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#1 spike6566
Member since 2008 • 1630 Posts

New info about the whole RRODGATE. sounds like MS already knew about RROD and the problems that the 360 will have way before launch. Want to say MS brought the awesome gaming experience, but forgot to bring the awesome reliability with their machines. any how tough times for MS PR.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169798

Report: MS Knew About 360 Defects Before Launch

Investigative report says the "RROD" defect kept Microsoft from originally planned price cuts.

By Kris Pigna, 09/07/2008

Call us crazy, but we suspect most Xbox 360 owners are, by now, well familiar with the dreaded Red Ring of Death -- maybe you haven't suffered through it 11 times, but odds are you or someone you know has likely dealt with Microsoft customer support at some point in the last three years. Now, a new report by VentureBeat's Dean Takahashi (author of the behind-the-scenes books Opening the Xbox and The Xbox 360 Uncloaked) contends that Microsoft knew about the issue before the 360's launch but refused to delay the release in order to beat their competitors to the market. And that decision, the report claims, has kept Microsoft from marketing and pricing the 360 as aggressively as they would have liked to.

The report (which Takahashi calls "unauthorized" but assures is well researched and several years in the making) paints an overall picture of Microsoft rushing through the Xbox 360's initial design and manufacturing, without heeding warning signs that the hardware was suffering from potentially serious defects. "It turned out, in the end, that this was all going too far, too fast," says one anonymous source about the 360's design process. "They were adding too many features after things were locked down. That incremental feature adding just made it fragile." The report claims (although Microsoft refused to confirm these figures) that as Microsoft went into full production in August of 2005, they had a staggeringly high 68 percent defect rate -- that is, for every 100 Xbox 360s they manufactured, 68 were duds.

But the more interesting point raised in the report is that Microsoft's gamble to continue toward launch (expecting the hardware issues would quickly work themselves out over time) has apparently kept them from pricing the Xbox 360 where they originally wanted it to be at this point in its lifecycle. "The quality problem negated much of the advantage of going first, and it has delayed the company's plan to aggressively market the console and slash its prices," Takahashi writes. "That has stopped the company from reaching the broader market of consumers that Nintendo has won over. It has lowered its ambitions, hoping instead just to get a clear edge on third-placed Sony. The future profits that the company once hoped for are now likely to wind up in Nintendo's pockets."

But Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices division, maintains that being first to market was the right decision. "If you take the question of whether it was the right thing to try to be first, the answer to that is definitely yes," Bach says in the report. "It has given us a leg up in a number of places that are super important. It has given us a leg up with game developers. It has given us a leg up from an economics perspective. It helped us expand Xbox Live quickly. At a strategy level, if you asked if we wanted to be first again, I would say yes. It's easy for me to go back and say, if I knew what would transpire over the next two years, would I go back and do something different, I think that's an obvious answer. But the fact is, based on the data we had at the time and all the hard work we put into it, there was no way to see what actually happened."

It's an interesting statement, in that Bach is saying they made the right decision, and yet he also admits they would've done things differently knowing what they know now. And what Microsoft knows now is that whatever intangible gains the defects may have cost them in keeping them from cutting their prices more aggressively, the defects did cost them a very tangible $1.15 billion dollars as a result of extending warranties for the RROD problem in July 2007. "Would I like the billion dollars back? Of course, the answer is yes. But there is still plenty of economics in the business for us to be successful," Bach says.

But with all models of the Xbox 360 just this week receiving a new wave of price cuts (putting the Arcade unit $50 cheaper than the Wii), it's fascinating to consider Microsoft may have actually intended for their hardware to be even cheaper at this point in the lifecycle. Could that have drastically changed the current standing in the so-called console wars? It's impossible to know for sure, but it sure is a fun "what-if" to ponder

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sireclaborn

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#2 sireclaborn
Member since 2008 • 1305 Posts
well i believe it, and i said this before but ms really did f-up this gen for themselves. there are some people out their that don't even care about the 199 price since it still a piece of crap that breaks. i just looked at amazon best sellers the elite is the best selling 360 while the core/arcade is at 52.
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BioShockOwnz

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#3 BioShockOwnz
Member since 2006 • 52901 Posts
Oh well, that was 2005. Luckily, I've always had warranties backin' me up.
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TheRealMC01

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#4 TheRealMC01
Member since 2007 • 995 Posts
Maybe you haven't figured this out yet, but the SW equivilant to something that's a day old is over 9000 days (yes, it's over 9000) old.
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hopesfall2own

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#5 hopesfall2own
Member since 2008 • 2714 Posts
Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really?
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VoodooGamer

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#6 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

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godofwar2610

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#7 godofwar2610
Member since 2008 • 577 Posts
Oh well, that was 2005. Luckily, I've always had warranties backin' me up.BioShockOwnz
Alot still break right now, the more you take care of it the longer it will take to finally break down sadly.
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sireclaborn

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#8 sireclaborn
Member since 2008 • 1305 Posts

Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

this is a big deal. for one ms made its users pay for rrod. i remember 360 owners paying 100+ just to get their 360 fixed and now it turns out ms knew they would break. the warranty isn't fixing or helping the consumers. it still can break but ms will fix it for free sounds convincing but what if gears 2 is out and your 360 just broke and ms is giving a free download or something.. i hate to be the person with the broken 360 on that week. this also shows how corrupt and ignorant ms is as a company. they screwed their consumers. i don't know why people have called the bbb or filled a lawsuit against ms and their crap products.

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diped

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#9 diped
Member since 2008 • 2005 Posts
.... you dont really know how product testing works do you... you think they didnt test their product and didnt know about the problem before launch?

If they didnt know about the problem, that would be way more concerning.

Hai guys! lets launch thsi product without doina ny testing. good idea yer/ that way we hav no problem rite?
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hopesfall2own

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#10 hopesfall2own
Member since 2008 • 2714 Posts

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? VoodooGamer

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?
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#11 milsvaard
Member since 2003 • 1928 Posts

Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Everyone, it's annoying getting the RROD, and it's certainly something that people think about when they're thinking of getting a 360 and specially if they live outside the US or Canada.

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VoodooGamer

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#12 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv?Hopes

1.) That's not the argument

2.) Yes

3.) The fact that things have broken on me before has nothing to do with the fact that Microsoft screwed over their customers by not having a better initial warranty, not attempting to fix the problem (It's been three years now), and trying to down-play the failure rate which was 33% at the time to 16%.

Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system.Hopes

I always find it funny when someone creates an argument and when he can't come up with a better one in response to his opponent he plays the "It's just a game system dude so it doesn't matter" card. If you're posting on a game forum, specifically one where you argue over game-systems, YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO START TALKING ABOUT HOW TRIVIAL IT IS TO ARGUE ABOUT GAME SYSTEMS! :lol:

As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others? Hopes

I like your facts.

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billbradsky

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#13 billbradsky
Member since 2007 • 370 Posts
This has been of gamespot's homepage for a week now. No need to repost.
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spike6566

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#14 spike6566
Member since 2008 • 1630 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

i am sure glad you dont sell items. espeically items that you know are defective but still sell them. so what you are saying is, If TOYOTA Knew they have had DEFECTIVE PARTS in 2009 car x. and has a 99% chance of causing accident, but still sold 2009 car x. It will be ok in yoru book, because all parts are suppose to break? wow glad you dont run a company. wait i wish you did so i can file a suit agains you :) lol
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TheRealMC01

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#15 TheRealMC01
Member since 2007 • 995 Posts

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? VoodooGamer

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

When did he say it wasn't bad news? Did you even read his post at all? I think what he's trying to say is that he's tired of seeing things like, well your post for example, where people just can't get over the issue themselves. What more do you expect MS to do? There's really not much they can do yet they still get criticized for something they did 3 years ago. Seriously, how much more of this do we need to hear? So they knew about the issue before the 360 was released, well obviously they had their reasons for releasing it when they did. Was it a mistake? Yes. Was it understandable at the time? I think so.

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DontBeHatin1983

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#16 DontBeHatin1983
Member since 2008 • 1044 Posts

Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

well they new about the problem and really didnt care about the costumer/gamer spending money on a defected product. what i dont get is how xbox-fanboys still defend a broken system.

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#17 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

When did he say it wasn't bad news? Did you even read his post at all?TheRealMC01

Who's post? His? No, I didn't read it, am I on a forum???:question:

I think what he's trying to say is that he's tired of seeing things like, well your post for example, where people just can't get over the issue themselves.The realmc

The fact that he tried to downplay it by saying and I quote, "Who cares anymore"? contradicts your point. His latest post supports my position as well. ;)

What more do you expect MS to doTherealmc

It's not what I expect them to do so much as what I expected them to do.

There's really not much they can do yet they still get criticized for something they did 3 years ago. Seriously, how much more of this do we need to hear? So they knew about the issue before the 360 was released, well obviously they had their reasons for releasing it when they did. Was it a mistake? Yes. Was it understandable at the time? I think so.

Therealmc

Oh for crying out loud. :roll:

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#18 sireclaborn
Member since 2008 • 1305 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

i don't know about you but i don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for something that breaks. think about all the money people invest in a console games accessories and etc just to have the main part (the console itself) break

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hopesfall2own

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#19 hopesfall2own
Member since 2008 • 2714 Posts
[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? sireclaborn

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

i don't know about you but i don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for something that breaks. think about all the money people invest in a console games accessories and etc just to have the main part (the console itself) break

So do you whine and moan if you have to get your tv repaired or return an item because it was defective? What about all of the laptops sony just recalled? You think they didn't know there was a possibility of it breaking down?

My point is this is not new, quit acting like it was just revealed last week this issue exists. New potential buyers of the 360 know the potential risk, current owners know how to deal with it if it should happen, you guys act like everyone that buys a 360 will encounter it.
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TheRealMC01

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#20 TheRealMC01
Member since 2007 • 995 Posts

The fact that he tried to downplay it by saying and I quote, "Who cares anymore"? contradicts your point. His latest post supports my position as well. ;) VoodooGamer

What position is that? Complaining about the same things we've known about for 3 years? I think i'll quote him and say "Who cares?"

It's not what I expect them to do so much as what I expected them to do. VoodooGamer

Yeah.. this is what i'm talking about. What good is saying that now? And do you think they enjoyed spending billion(s) of dollars on providing the warranty?

Oh for crying out loud. :roll: VoodooGamer

Like i said before, if they had known that they would be losing all the money that they have then they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Obviously they thought they would work through the problem and it would all pay off. Whether or not it did, well it depends who you're asking.

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VoodooGamer

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#21 VoodooGamer
Member since 2007 • 1864 Posts

So do you whine and moan if you have to get your tv repaired or return an item because it was defective? hopesfall2own

A lot of people do...



My point is this is not new, quit acting like it was just revealed last week this issue exists.Hopes

Well your point is pointless. :lol: Oh you didn't get that? :( I'm bad at jokes anyway, your point is irrelavant considering that his thread isn't about whether it exists or not but whether Microsoft KNEW it existed before releasing the 360 with a pathetic warranty. ;)

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spike6566

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#22 spike6566
Member since 2008 • 1630 Posts
[QUOTE="sireclaborn"][QUOTE="hopesfall2own"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

i don't know about you but i don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for something that breaks. think about all the money people invest in a console games accessories and etc just to have the main part (the console itself) break

So do you whine and moan if you have to get your tv repaired or return an item because it was defective? What about all of the laptops sony just recalled? You think they didn't know there was a possibility of it breaking down?

My point is this is not new, quit acting like it was just revealed last week this issue exists. New potential buyers of the 360 know the potential risk, current owners know how to deal with it if it should happen, you guys act like everyone that buys a 360 will encounter it.

the point of this thread is not if fanboys knew about it, its about MS knowing that they are selling a defective console, for the sake of being number 1 this gen. guess what??? the truth is out now.
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xboxps2cube

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#23 xboxps2cube
Member since 2005 • 1362 Posts
[QUOTE="sireclaborn"][QUOTE="hopesfall2own"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

i don't know about you but i don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for something that breaks. think about all the money people invest in a console games accessories and etc just to have the main part (the console itself) break

So do you whine and moan if you have to get your tv repaired or return an item because it was defective? What about all of the laptops sony just recalled? You think they didn't know there was a possibility of it breaking down?

My point is this is not new, quit acting like it was just revealed last week this issue exists. New potential buyers of the 360 know the potential risk, current owners know how to deal with it if it should happen, you guys act like everyone that buys a 360 will encounter it.

I will be quite honest, i would rather have a more reliable system than a system that has the potential to break anytime.

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sireclaborn

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#25 sireclaborn
Member since 2008 • 1305 Posts
[QUOTE="sireclaborn"][QUOTE="hopesfall2own"][QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

i don't know about you but i don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for something that breaks. think about all the money people invest in a console games accessories and etc just to have the main part (the console itself) break

So do you whine and moan if you have to get your tv repaired or return an item because it was defective? What about all of the laptops sony just recalled? You think they didn't know there was a possibility of it breaking down?

My point is this is not new, quit acting like it was just revealed last week this issue exists. New potential buyers of the 360 know the potential risk, current owners know how to deal with it if it should happen, you guys act like everyone that buys a 360 will encounter it.

hell yeah i do. if i paid 2500 for a tv and it breaks i better get my money back. oh by the way at least sony did the smart business move and recalled their product. if ms had recalled the 360 back in 06 and fixed the problem that could have more sales now. yes it cost money but recalling a million or two or less is better than recalling 20 million. plus ms is paying for their mistakes no one wants to buy a crap product.

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leejohnson7

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#26 leejohnson7
Member since 2007 • 2909 Posts

Oh well, that was 2005. Luckily, I've always had warranties backin' me up.BioShockOwnz

Doesn't bother you that you are shelling out hundreds for hardware that is basically crap?

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#27 xboxps2cube
Member since 2005 • 1362 Posts

only some 3 months until the warranty wears off for the launch boxes now..

Thats can be quite annoying for some I guess.

omgimba

i think me being a original owner and got it repaired once... this is very annoying to say the least.... we could of waited for them to finish it... xbox is feeling like windows in being a unfinished product patched up with rehashes and service packs... let me ask you all this, if xbox didnt have the games and still have these problems... would y'all still buy it?

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omgimba

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#28 omgimba
Member since 2007 • 2645 Posts

Launch xbox warranty runs out in 2 months or so if im not mistaken. That will get annoying for people I guess.

It will boost the sales for the arcade versions though.. Since people fanatic enough too rebuy it will most likely have a working HDD already.

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#29 dr_jashugan
Member since 2006 • 2665 Posts
New wave price cuts? Does that mean RRoD is getting cheaper? :?
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#30 wiidog
Member since 2007 • 600 Posts
[QUOTE="VoodooGamer"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Why do people still care about this? If someone doesn't have a 360, they are aware that this is out there. If they do have a 360, they have a warranty and are aware of it as well. Who cares anymore really? hopesfall2own

Oh get off your fanboy high-horse, this IS bad news. If Microsoft is willing to cut corners and NOT tell anyone who bought a 360 then that says a lot of bad things about Microsoft. Contrary to popular belief, letting customers recieve the bad end of the stick while they make like fat rats isn't part of most companies agenda. ;)

So you've never had an electronics device break on you? Maybe a pc part? Tv? Whatever..at least they are giving you free replacements, its not like not having your car for 2 weeks..its a freaking game system. As I said, majority of consumers know about it and accept it, why can't others?

Yeah I have had stuff break down but the company didnt know it was gonna break down 5 TIMES ya tard.

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Mandingo101

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#31 Mandingo101
Member since 2007 • 2317 Posts
was there any doubt that they knew? seriously?

they tried to go cheap to avoid the losses they took on the original xbox, and it backfired. they have almost lost just as much on 360.
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sargentbotk

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#32 sargentbotk
Member since 2007 • 4224 Posts

I haven't gotten RROD. I knew the risks and still bought it :).

As long as I have warranties backing me up I have no reason to worry about it. I can focus solely on the games :D

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spike6566

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#33 spike6566
Member since 2008 • 1630 Posts

Launch xbox warranty runs out in 2 months or so if im not mistaken. That will get annoying for people I guess.

It will boost the sales for the arcade versions though.. Since people fanatic enough too rebuy it will most likely have a working HDD already.

omgimba
crap, i have a launch 360. i guess i should just let my 360 run for days till i get RROD
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naruto7777

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#34 naruto7777
Member since 2007 • 8059 Posts
old news again