360 failure rate put at 16 per cent - less than previously claimed

It's based on a 1000 consoles.....jangojay

that's a great sample size.

the problm with this study is it's not random, and doesn't include everyone because first everyone didn't know about there services, and some people wouldn't pay for it even if they did.

But we know it's more then the 3% that Microsoft suggested.

So one insurance company does a small sample and it's truth? anything over 5% is shamefull anyways.Jynxzor

1000 isn't a small sample.

That's just as accurate as the 33 percent failure rate which isn't accurate at all. The only people that know the real number is MS and they ain't talking. The only thing I know is, IT'S TOO GOD DAMN HIGH.

that is all.

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]So one insurance company does a small sample and it's truth? anything over 5% is shamefull anyways.GundamGuy0

1000 isn't a small sample.

1000 is a pretty small sample when your trying to come up with a sample for a multi million selling unit. with only 1000 systems there are too many variables that you can't control or even out with a larger sample.

That's just as accurate as the 33 percent failure rate which isn't accurate at all. The only people that know the real number is MS and they ain't talking. The only thing I know is, IT'S TOO GOD DAMN HIGH.

that is all.

heretrix

This number is a little better then that one, but it's still not a perfect, because it wasn't a random sample.

if this is true, im not surprised really.

the internet makes the problem seem huge. everytime a 360 breaks, you'll hear about it cuz the owner will come to a forum and ***** about it. on the other hand, no one makes threads saying "my 360 still works"

How long was the testing period? You don't get people with 11 consoles in a row breaking with 16%. I'd put it easily above thirty.

Take this result with a grain of salt.

How many people do YOU know that've experienced RoD or general hardware failure?

Well without knowing exactly how the survey was performed I can't say much, but its certainly better than asking 1 ex-EB employee. Around 16% certainly sounds like a reasonable (in terms of it making sense, not that it's acceptable) number though.PBSnipes

Thats not how the 33% failure rate came about. It came about by a similiar company that fixed broken 360s claiming that they have a 33% failure rate. The ex MS employee just attemepted to confirm the rumor.

Wow! 16%! Still 5x the failure rate of both of its competitors! Yay!

"Sir, I am a world renowned cardiac surgeon. My patients die 5x as often as my fellow colleagues but it is okay. I have reduced my mortality rates from 33% so you should all be impressed. Now, who wants to sign the consent form for surgery today?"

How long was the testing period? You don't get people with 11 consoles in a row breaking with 16%. I'd put it easily above thirty.

Take this result with a grain of salt.

How many people do YOU know that've experienced RoD or general hardware failure?

BobHipJames

2 have had their 360 more than a year with no problems, and one has had it since summer.

you say "take this with a grain of salt" as if there is information to the contrary that we should take as being better/more informative :?

16 percent and a 3 year warranty isnt that bad. I mean cows complain about this, yet the PS3 still collects more dust than the 360 because of lack of AAAE's.Reyes360

1 year warranty now, same as PS3 since launch.

[QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

How long was the testing period? You don't get people with 11 consoles in a row breaking with 16%. I'd put it easily above thirty.

Take this result with a grain of salt.

How many people do YOU know that've experienced RoD or general hardware failure?

JPOBS

2 have had their 360 more than a year with no problems, and one has had it since summer.

you say "take this with a grain of salt" as if there is information to the contrary that we should take as being better/more informative :?

There is information to the contrary, do you live under a stone?

16 percent and a 3 year warranty isnt that bad. I mean cows complain about this, yet the PS3 still collects more dust than the 360 because of lack of AAAE's.Reyes360

MS shouldn't have to give a 3 year warranty. Its nice yes, but if they never had the problems in the first place they would never have had to do that. And compared to sony and nintendo, 16% is to high.

[QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

How long was the testing period? You don't get people with 11 consoles in a row breaking with 16%. I'd put it easily above thirty.

Take this result with a grain of salt.

How many people do YOU know that've experienced RoD or general hardware failure?

BobHipJames

2 have had their 360 more than a year with no problems, and one has had it since summer.

you say "take this with a grain of salt" as if there is information to the contrary that we should take as being better/more informative :?

There is information to the contrary, do you live under a stone?

Wow! 16%! Still 5x the failure rate of both of its competitors! Yay!

"Sir, I am a world renowned cardiac surgeon. My patients die 5x as often as my fellow colleagues but it is okay. I have reduced my mortality rates from 33% so you should all be impressed. Now, who wants to sign the consent form for surgery today?"

jetpropilot

I'm just going to use my 360 to play games. You know those Trauma Center games on Wii are just simulations right?

There are only two responses to this. 1) I believe this estimate is accurate... and that failure rate is too damn high, or 2) I don't believe this estimate, the failure rate is higher... and that is WAY too damn high. I suppose there is a 3rd response, the "I think the failure rate is low" option, but surely no one here believes that now.

nice sample size.

out of the 4 people I know that have a 360, 3 have failed.

thats a failure rate of 75%

thats my data.

As reported by 1UP, SquareTrade based the figure on a sample of 1000 consoles. Sample lots "in the high hundreds" of PlayStation 3 and Wii units gave a failure rate of just 3 per cent.

:roll:

So one insurance company does a small sample and it's truth? anything over 5% is shamefull anyways.Jynxzor

1000 isn't a small sample.

1000 is a pretty small sample when your trying to come up with a sample for a multi million selling unit. with only 1000 systems there are too many variables that you can't control or even out with a larger sample.

no way...1000 is huge and by far more than you need to estimate populatin paramters...staistics is my major.... so....

nice sample size.

out of the 4 people I know that have a 360, 3 have failed.

thats a failure rate of 75%

thats my data.

Sh3rpa

I know one person other than myself, and he is on #4 while I am still on my first. What does that make my data, like 60% failure rate?

[QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="JPOBS"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

How long was the testing period? You don't get people with 11 consoles in a row breaking with 16%. I'd put it easily above thirty.

Take this result with a grain of salt.

How many people do YOU know that've experienced RoD or general hardware failure?

JPOBS

2 have had their 360 more than a year with no problems, and one has had it since summer.

you say "take this with a grain of salt" as if there is information to the contrary that we should take as being better/more informative :?

There is information to the contrary, do you live under a stone?

Maybe you should take the fact that the authors of the study included a caveat that said basically "we can't account for damage over long periods of time which seems to be the major contributor," I.E. heat-based damage.

That's the entire problem behind the RROD.

Moreover, I'm wondering if they're using launch 360s, intermediate 360s, or 360s that were just released, which have added heatsinks and supposedly better manufacturing.

Everything can have a giant impact on the results.

you know, every anti Sony person(many, although not all 360 users) keeps bringing up "lack of games"....There were maybe 8 games throughout the time-span of owning a 360 in which I bought a game and liked it. I have bought 7 ps3 games for now and rented/tried so many of them. I have enjoyed almost all of them greatly. There were maybe 2 titles which I disliked. I gave my dying 360 to a friend; funny thing is it Rrod'd on him 3 months later. That was basically around the launch of halo 3. I have played halo 3 and bioshock. I thought bioshock was a renter, and Halo 3 would be bought only as a friend game. I personally hate it... everytime I hear "Oh, well we have a AAA lineup...check it out!", I think to myself pfft at best.

As for the failure rate...I believe 16% is more accurate than that overshot 33%.

1) 16% is huge. It means that 1 out of every 6 360 owner will encounter a breakdown. That works out to about 1.75 million 360 owners that have had their 360 breakdown on them in the US alone.

2) As they stated the longer you have a 360 the higher the chances of breakdown, which would suggest that refurbished 360's have a much higher % of failure, meaning that once your first 360 breaks down your chances of getting another one that will last you is notisably smaller than if you just went out and got a new one.

16 percent and a 3 year warranty isnt that bad. I mean cows complain about this, yet the PS3 still collects more dust than the 360 because of lack of AAAE's.Reyes360

16% is way too high for a console. And you don't need AAAE games to use a console, it does work with all games.

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]So one insurance company does a small sample and it's truth? anything over 5% is shamefull anyways.GundamGuy0

1000 isn't a small sample.

It is when they only sampled their own clients. Its not like they did a national random poll. And if you read the article, they say that RROD only accounts for 60% of that 16%. In other words, they say RROD only affects 10% of 360s

This is deceptive posting on the part of lemmings and a display of their willfull ignorance on the RROD issue. There is no way RROD only affects 10% of all 360s. All this proves is that only 16% of the people who buy 360s in the area of this company, return them to the company when they break. Further, it only tracks the people who get warranties from this company, wherever they operate, and decided to use that warranty to fix their 360 instead of calling MS directly.

still though having it happen more than once to any people is just very sad. i don't care a few yes a few AAA does not make up for that or not worth the trouble. i also here alot you say 16% is not bad with a tree year warranty lol that only covers rrod nothing else. there are also reports saying the heat is not the only problem with the machine. i also think it is higher than that.

16 percent and a 3 year warranty isnt that badReyes360

1) 16% = 5x greater than either competitor. Isn't that bad? What a joke.

2) That number was estimated to grow as the problems are age-dependent (per the report). Guess that 3 yr warranty looks real useful 4 years out from launch huh?

3) 1 yr and counting and they still can't match the competitor's failure rates? Looks like the R&D team at MS needs to be fired

16% probably isn't too far off. It's definitely not 33% as people kept saying over and over again. By Sept the issue should be completely fixed anyways. That's when the 360 will have the Falcon (cooler GPU) chip put in the system. XanderZane

What is your logic to back up your comments? Or do you just make up an opinion first and then cherry pick what evidence you want to pay attention to after the fact?

Oh wait...you don't even know that the falcom chip is already put into all 360s and has been for months now. I guess that answers my question.

[QUOTE="GundamGuy0"]

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]So one insurance company does a small sample and it's truth? anything over 5% is shamefull anyways.ZIMdoom

1000 isn't a small sample.

It is when they only sampled their own clients. Its not like they did a national random poll. And if you read the article, they say that RROD only accounts for 60% of that 16%. In other words, they say RROD only affects 10% of 360s

This is deceptive posting on the part of lemmings and a display of their willfull ignorance on the RROD issue. There is no way RROD only affects 10% of all 360s. All this proves is that only 16% of the people who buy 360s in the area of this company, return them to the company when they break. Further, it only tracks the people who get warranties from this company, wherever they operate, and decided to use that warranty to fix their 360 instead of calling MS directly.

60% of broken 360s are due to RROD

What is the problem with the other 40% that doesn't work?

Does the extenended warranty cover 360s that did not receive RROD but busted ?

These statistics do not show how many of these broken 360s will work properly after being "fixed".

These statistics admit that the RROD rate increases after time.

These statistics admit that the RROD rate increases after time.

Mongo-Boss

that's the worst thing

it's pure mayhem once the 3 yr window expires

16 percent and a 3 year warranty isnt that bad. I mean cows complain about this, yet the PS3 still collects more dust than the 360 because of lack of AAAE's.Reyes360

So you only ever play AAAEs? Well...poor you, to be quite honest.

[QUOTE="Mongo-Boss"]

These statistics admit that the RROD rate increases after time.

jetpropilot

that's the worst thing

it's pure mayhem once the 3 yr window expires

SquareTrade, a firm specialising in selling electronics warranties, is claiming the failure rate for Xbox 360 consoles is 16.4 per cent.

As reported by 1UP, SquareTrade based the figure on a sample of 1000 consoles. Sample lots "in the high hundreds" of PlayStation 3 and Wii units gave a failure rate of just 3 per cent.

According to SquareTrade CEO Steve Abernethy, the overheating problem associated with Microsoft's console may cause the failure rate to climb.

"It is reasonable to believe these failure rates will increase over time, since the Xbox 360 failure issues tend to increase with prolonged use where overheating appears the main culprit," he said.

The company's data states the 'Red Rings of Death' error accounted for around 60 per cent of the sample failures. Of the different hardware variations of the Xbox 360, Abernethy stated that of the associated problems he "would estimate most if not all were the original motherboard".

Last year, you may recall, Xbox boss Peter Moore apologised to gamers whose 360s had busted. Microsoft extended the warranty of the machine to three years and agreed to pay for repairs. The company declined to offer a solid failure rate figure but Moore told our friends GamesIndustry.biz, "You know it when you see it. We saw it, and it was unacceptable."

This morning a Microsoft spokesperson told GI.biz, "The majority of Xbox 360 owners have had a great experience with their consoles. We do not disclose internal hardware repair data and we do not comment on speculation."

Which ought to cheer up Eurogamer's Bert, Rich and Scott, all of whom have suffered from dead Xbox 360s within the past month.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=92718jazreal

1: The pic in your sig strongly implies that either you don't own a PS3 and want MGS4, or else that you're a Lemming. Either way, your loss.

2: 16.4 % is still completely unreasonable, 1 in 6 consoles failing is absurd! Especially when it takes about a month and a half to get your console 'fixed', it breaks again and after a few repeats they finally send you a replacement!

It's based on a 1000 consoles.....jangojay

Exactly, not exactly the most accurate results then, is it?

16 percent and a 3 year warranty isnt that bad. I mean cows complain about this, yet the PS3 still collects more dust than the 360 because of lack of AAAE's.Reyes360

yes you are completely right. ps3 physically attracts more dust because it is self aware that on gamespot it does not have a single AAAE yet.

no way...1000 is huge and by far more than you need to estimate populatin paramters...staistics is my major.... so....

MikeE21286

So if statistics is your major, you should be taking in the the consideration of what approach they used regarding the parameter estimation for this particular problem, and how they ensured the quality estimated was the appropriate one for the specific purpose of the modeling exercise regarding the failure rates.

[QUOTE="MikeE21286"]

no way...1000 is huge and by far more than you need to estimate populatin paramters...staistics is my major.... so....

flazzle

So if statistics is your major, you should be taking in the the consideration of what approach they used regarding the parameter estimation for this particular problem, and how they ensured the quality estimated was the appropriate one for the specific purpose of the modeling exercise regarding the failure rates.

Are you sure statistics is your major?

if 1000 is a huge grouping for a statistic this completely backfires on lems who may now look like hypocrits. a while back around christmas there was a poll that came out from a website that polled 1000 people and the most in demand christmas gifts were 1. hdtvs. 2. ps3. 3. wii 4. xbox360. plenty of lems came in complaining that 1000 was no where near a reliable grouping

Wow! 16%! Still 5x the failure rate of both of its competitors! Yay!

"Sir, I am a world renowned cardiac surgeon. My patients die 5x as often as my fellow colleagues but it is okay. I have reduced my mortality rates from 33% so you should all be impressed. Now, who wants to sign the consent form for surgery today?"

jetpropilot

what a dumb analogy. think about it for a second.

The failure rate of ps3 and wii is at the average 3%.

if you are a doctor and your mortality rate is 3%, then you are out of business. even 3% is a high mortality rate for the average doctor.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="GundamGuy0"]

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]So one insurance company does a small sample and it's truth? anything over 5% is shamefull anyways.Teh_Bob

1000 isn't a small sample.

It is when they only sampled their own clients. Its not like they did a national random poll. And if you read the article, they say that RROD only accounts for 60% of that 16%. In other words, they say RROD only affects 10% of 360s

This is deceptive posting on the part of lemmings and a display of their willfull ignorance on the RROD issue. There is no way RROD only affects 10% of all 360s. All this proves is that only 16% of the people who buy 360s in the area of this company, return them to the company when they break. Further, it only tracks the people who get warranties from this company, wherever they operate, and decided to use that warranty to fix their 360 instead of calling MS directly.

I have no facts to back that up...nobody does except MS and they won't talk. What I do know is that it is impossible for this company to be right about the 16% number. And statistically speaking, the likelihood of the ACTUAL number being higher than 16% is greater than the likelihood of it being lower due to the fauly sampling and polling used by this company.

The way I see it, I don't need to prove I am right. I am only trying to prove they are wrong.

Furthermore, would you like to do the probability calculation that a console with only a 10% RROD failure rate would result in people having as many as 7, 8 or 9 consoles fail on them? What do you think the odds of that are, because I'm willing to be they are astronomical to the point of being impossible.