360 graphics > PS3 graphics - The HARD TRUTH about multiplats and exclusives

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L1qu1dSword

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#1 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

Source:

http://jbooth.blogspot.com/2007/10/ps3-misconceptions-and-spin.html

I read various game forums from time to time, and often see gamers complaining about 'lazy ports' to the ps3. They often mention how the ps3 is the most powerful game console and blame developers working on the console for doing a bad job. Sony has all of these people duped by impressive marketing spin, and I'm often amazed at how potent this type of rhetoric proves to be. For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck. First, lets debunk a few common misconceptions:

"The PS3 is more graphically advanced than the 360"

Fill rate is one of the primary ways to measure graphics performance - in essence, it's a number describing how many pixel operations you can perform. The fill rate on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, meaning that games either have to run at lower resolution or use simpler shader effects to achieve the same performance. Additionally, the shader processing on the ps3 is significantly slower than on the 360, which means that a normal map takes more fill rate to draw on the ps3 than it does on the 360. And I'm not talking about small differences here, we're talking roughly half the pixel pushing power.

"Ok, fine, but the cell is like, super powerful"

In theory, sure, but in reality it doesn't work out that way. Game code simply doesn't split well across multiple processors. You can probably find a way to split a few things off fairly easily - put the audio on one processor, animation on another; but generally the breakup is always going to leave several of the SPUs idle or underutilized. On top of that, it's usually not CPU speed that restricts the visuals in games - it's fill rate.

"Uh, Blue Ray!"

Great for watching movies, but not so great for games. Getting data off the blue ray drive takes about twice as long as it does to get the same data off the 360's DVD drive. That translates into longer load times, or god forbid if your streaming from disk, tighter constraints on the amount of data you can stream.

"But it's got a lot more space than DVD"

Ok, you got me there - it does have a lot more space, and there is the potential to use that to do something cool, but thats unlikely to be realized in any useful way. There are tons of compression techniques available for data and I'd personally rather be able to get my data faster than have more of it. Most developers who use the entire Blue Ray drive are doing it to work around other problems with the ps3 such as it's slow loading - for instance, in Resistance: Fall of Man, every art asset is stored on disk once for every level that uses it. So rather than storing one copy of a texture, you're storing it 12 times. If you took that entire game and removed all the duplicate data, it would likely fit on a DVD without any problem. They do this to speed up load times, which, as I pointed out before, are painfully slow on the ps3. So in this case, the extra space is completely wasted.

"Once developers figure out the PS3 they'll maximize the hardware and it will be amazing"

I suspect a small number of PS3 only developers will optimize the hardware to do something cool. However, this will be an exception to the rule, and will likely involved game designs that are specifically designed for the hardware and funded by Sony. If those will prove to be fun or not is another question.

Most of the performance centric research into the PS3 has been around making it easier for developers to get the same level of performance you get out of the 360 naturally. For instance, some developers are using those extra SPU's on the cell to prepare data for the rendering pipeline. Basically, they take the data they would normally send to the graphics chip, send it to an SPU which optimizes it in some manner, then send it to the graphics chip. So, once again we see an 'advantage' in hardware being used to make up for a disadvantage in another area - a common theme with the ps3. And this introduces an extra frame of latency into the equation, making controller response slower.

So, the common theme is this; developers must spend significantly more time and resources getting the PS3 to do what the 360 can already do easily and with a lot less code. Lets look at how this translates into practical realities for a moment:

Why the PS3 version often pails in comparison to the 360 version, and why exclusives often suck:

As outlined above, getting equivalent performance out of the PS3 requires a lot of work unique to the platform, and in many cases, even with all these tricks, you still won't see equivalent performance. Thus, many ps3 games have simplified shaders and run at lower native resolutions than the 360 versions. On top of this, there is shrinking incentive to do this work; the PS3 isn't selling.

The code needed to make the PS3 work is most likely only useful to you on the PS3, as the types of tricks you need to do to make the thing perform are very unique to the platform and unlikely to be useful on any other architecture now or in the future. These issues all stem from unbalanced hardware design, and any future hardware that is this unbalanced will likely be unbalanced in a completely unique way.

Finally, there's the problem of resources. Game Development is, at it's heart, a resource management challenge. Given finite resources, do I have these five engineers work on optimizing the PS3 version to look better, or do I use them to make the game play better and fix bugs? Do I change my design to fit with what the PS3 hardware does well, or simply run the game at a slightly lower resolution on the PS3 to make up for it? Developers striving to push the PS3 hardware have often sacrificed their game in the process.

This post might come across as a lot of Sony bashing, but it's just the reality from the trenches. Sony let their hardware be designed by a comity of business interests rather than a well thought out design that would serve the game development community. They are going to loose hard this round because of it, and I hope that in the next round they take lessons from this round and produce a more balanced and usable machine.

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biggamerhk

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#2 biggamerhk
Member since 2006 • 1653 Posts
did not read any of that. and, sorry, PS3 graphics >>>>>>>>>>>> 360 graphics.
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L1qu1dSword

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#3 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

did not read any of that. and, sorry, PS3 graphics >>>>>>>>>>>> 360 graphics.biggamerhk

well had you read it you would probably think differently.

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BobHipJames

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#4 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

Edit: the entire thing is the former Harmonix employee article verbatim. Awesome. Hadn't we already confronted this and given out the "uh....yeah...." response?

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Khanezhyray

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#5 Khanezhyray
Member since 2005 • 901 Posts

The whole argument that "it's tough on developers" again, eh?

Do you even know how to develop, much less CODE?

The SPU-related code have nothing to do with the graphics level, only the performance.

And a counter point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HvdRfUmoqQ

Watch it. It's made my multiplat games look better.

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GrandpaDeath

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#6 GrandpaDeath
Member since 2007 • 339 Posts

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

BobHipJames


:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)
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L1qu1dSword

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#7 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

And a counter point?

Khanezhyray

you first

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L1qu1dSword

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#8 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

GrandpaDeath



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

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BobHipJames

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#10 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts
[QUOTE="GrandpaDeath"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

L1qu1dSword



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

"For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck."

Is that true at all?

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NEOSPARKING

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#11 NEOSPARKING
Member since 2007 • 1264 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="GrandpaDeath"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

BobHipJames



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

"For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck."

Is that true at all?


maybe not but its certainly not biased and should give the article full credibility
yep 100 percent trust...
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L1qu1dSword

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#12 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="GrandpaDeath"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

BobHipJames



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

"For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck."

Is that true at all?

For the last year it has certainly been true. Hope you guys enjoy the freezing and framerate issues on assassain's creed. it runs perfect on 360. funny since sony promised that as an exclusive in 2005.

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Khanezhyray

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#13 Khanezhyray
Member since 2005 • 901 Posts
[QUOTE="GrandpaDeath"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

L1qu1dSword



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

Yeah well I coded for EA.

Does that make my opinion fact? No.

(I didn't actually code for EA, I was using it to debase your argument)

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Khanezhyray

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#14 Khanezhyray
Member since 2005 • 901 Posts

For the last year it has certainly been true. Hope you guys enjoy the freezing and framerate issues on assassain's creed. it runs perfect on 360. funny since sony promised that as an exclusive in 2005.

L1qu1dSword

You obviously haven't compared the two. They both have the same number of glitches. Same areas, too.

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I_Helios_I

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#15 I_Helios_I
Member since 2007 • 1220 Posts

The HARD truth is that PS3 has arguably the best looking game on the market right now.

The HARD truth is that many developers have already stated that the PS3 has an edge with its hardware (Its tougher to develop for though)

The HARD truth is that it DOES come back to lazy porting. Instead of getting the game to perform well developers choose to get the game to merely run. It comes down to the money and it comes down to PS3's finnicky architecture, but that doesn't mean the hardware isn't powerful just hard to develop for.

The HARD truth is that 360 is just an awesome console period. It's pretty powerful, easy to develop for and has a large installed base.

The FACTS simply are that PS3 is more powerful not by much but still enough to make a difference in games over the next 2 to 3 years. I'm not going to get into all the techno-babble becuae 75% of you won't know what the he** I'm talking about lol.

360 has better games period, but more powerful hardware? tisk tisk tisk try again.

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BobHipJames

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#16 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts
[QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="GrandpaDeath"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

L1qu1dSword



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

"For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck."

Is that true at all?

For the last year it has certainly been true. Hope you guys enjoy the freezing and framerate issues on assassain's creed. it runs perfect on 360. funny since sony promised that as an exclusive in 2005.

Call of Duty ring a bell?

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L1qu1dSword

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#17 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="GrandpaDeath"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Liquid....I feel inclined to not trust you at all given you took your entire fill rate analysis from a former Harmonix employee.

Excepting that part about fill rate being a primary method of measuring graphics performance....that bloated bit, you added in yourself.

BobHipJames



:O:O:O:O:O:O:O

PPPPWWWWWWNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDD!!!1!!!!1!!111!!!!1!!!!!

And exposed :)

LOL well given the fact that I did not change the article at all( go to the page I linked) I'd say you both are not too bright. Can you acually counter what the guy is saying instead of debasing the company he worked for?

"For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck."

Is that true at all?

For the last year it has certainly been true. Hope you guys enjoy the freezing and framerate issues on assassain's creed. it runs perfect on 360. funny since sony promised that as an exclusive in 2005.

Call of Duty ring a bell?

What about it?

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BobHipJames

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#18 BobHipJames
Member since 2007 • 3126 Posts
[QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Call of Duty ring a bell?

L1qu1dSword

What about it?

It totally debunked his claim when it came out and performed at least as well on PS3 as on the XBox 360.

That and Uncharted on the exclusives front.

Burnout as well is a biggie.

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L1qu1dSword

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#19 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Call of Duty ring a bell?

BobHipJames

What about it?

It totally debunked his claim when it came out and performed at least as well on PS3 as on the XBox 360.

That and Uncharted on the exclusives front.

Burnout as well is a biggie.

How does that make it ok that Assassain's Creed freezes and slows down on the PS3? That's a new game. Burnout is not out yet. Uncharted is not as good as 360's killer of 2006 Gears graphically or on the gameplay front.

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jamesns

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#20 jamesns
Member since 2007 • 334 Posts
Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hi
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L1qu1dSword

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#21 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hijamesns
Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.
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Khanezhyray

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#22 Khanezhyray
Member since 2005 • 901 Posts
[QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Call of Duty ring a bell?

L1qu1dSword

What about it?

It totally debunked his claim when it came out and performed at least as well on PS3 as on the XBox 360.

That and Uncharted on the exclusives front.

Burnout as well is a biggie.

How does that make it ok that Assassain's Creed freezes and slows down on the PS3? That's a new game. Burnout is not out yet. Uncharted is not as good as 360's killer of 2006 Gears graphically or on the gameplay front.

READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND. I ALREADY DEBUNKED THIS CLAIM.

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L1qu1dSword

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#23 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]

For the last year it has certainly been true. Hope you guys enjoy the freezing and framerate issues on assassain's creed. it runs perfect on 360. funny since sony promised that as an exclusive in 2005.

Khanezhyray

You obviously haven't compared the two. They both have the same number of glitches. Same areas, too.

360's version does not freeze. Problems with teh PS3 version are well-documented. Just google it. I played all the way through the 360 version with not a SINGLE freeze.

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Ragashahs

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#24 Ragashahs
Member since 2005 • 8785 Posts
best looking game on consoles is uncharted so right now PS3>360
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L1qu1dSword

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#25 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Call of Duty ring a bell?

Khanezhyray

What about it?

It totally debunked his claim when it came out and performed at least as well on PS3 as on the XBox 360.

That and Uncharted on the exclusives front.

Burnout as well is a biggie.

How does that make it ok that Assassain's Creed freezes and slows down on the PS3? That's a new game. Burnout is not out yet. Uncharted is not as good as 360's killer of 2006 Gears graphically or on the gameplay front.

READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND. I ALREADY DEBUNKED THIS CLAIM.

CAPS =/= Debunking

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L1qu1dSword

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#27 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hijamesns

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

No dumb lemming, uncharted was crowned graphics king of all consoles a while ago dumb dumb

by who, the same guys who said LAIR was going to be AAA? The same guys who said Resistance looked better then Gears of War? yeah...

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Duo75

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#28 Duo75
Member since 2005 • 283 Posts
LOL - Did you guys cope and paste the link he gave? Its the blog of the former Harmonix employ and if you read the comments almost everything he says gets ripped apart. Read his bio this dude didn't even go to school to be a programmer, so the only things he knows is the little bit of programming the he "picked up". Do people seriously buy into this?
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Khanezhyray

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#29 Khanezhyray
Member since 2005 • 901 Posts
[QUOTE="jamesns"]

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiL1qu1dSword

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

No dumb lemming, uncharted was crowned graphics king of all consoles a while ago dumb dumb

by who, the same guys who said LAIR was going to be AAA? The same guys who said Resistance looked better then Gears of War? yeah...

By who? Even the intelligble lemmings agree that uncharted is graphics king atm.

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L1qu1dSword

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#30 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

LOL - Did you guys cope and paste the link he gave? Its the blog of the former Harmonix employ and if you read the comments almost everything he says gets ripped apart. Read his bio this dude didn't even go to school to be a programmer, so the only things he knows is the little bit of programming the he "picked up". Do people seriously buy into this?Duo75

Well OK debunk him.

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I_Helios_I

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#31 I_Helios_I
Member since 2007 • 1220 Posts
[QUOTE="Khanezhyray"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"]

Call of Duty ring a bell?

L1qu1dSword

Liquid talks as if he's actually a programmer and actually KNOWS what he's referencing too. lmao

What about it?

It totally debunked his claim when it came out and performed at least as well on PS3 as on the XBox 360.

That and Uncharted on the exclusives front.

Burnout as well is a biggie.

How does that make it ok that Assassain's Creed freezes and slows down on the PS3? That's a new game. Burnout is not out yet. Uncharted is not as good as 360's killer of 2006 Gears graphically or on the gameplay front.

READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND. I ALREADY DEBUNKED THIS CLAIM.

CAPS =/= Debunking

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Duo75

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#32 Duo75
Member since 2005 • 283 Posts
[QUOTE="Khanezhyray"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]

For the last year it has certainly been true. Hope you guys enjoy the freezing and framerate issues on assassain's creed. it runs perfect on 360. funny since sony promised that as an exclusive in 2005.

L1qu1dSword

You obviously haven't compared the two. They both have the same number of glitches. Same areas, too.

360's version does not freeze. Problems with teh PS3 version are well-documented. Just google it. I played all the way through the 360 version with not a SINGLE freeze.

Your obviously a fanboy. It was a reported issue for BOTH VERSIONS of the game. You got lucky and didn't experience it and thats what your basing your whole claim off off.

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Duo75

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#33 Duo75
Member since 2005 • 283 Posts

[QUOTE="Duo75"]LOL - Did you guys cope and paste the link he gave? Its the blog of the former Harmonix employ and if you read the comments almost everything he says gets ripped apart. Read his bio this dude didn't even go to school to be a programmer, so the only things he knows is the little bit of programming the he "picked up". Do people seriously buy into this?L1qu1dSword


Well OK debunk him.

I'm not going to take the time, just follow your own link and read the d@$% comments.

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Duo75

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#34 Duo75
Member since 2005 • 283 Posts

[QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiL1qu1dSword
Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

I have both gears and uncharted and uncharted looks better, of course i like color in my games so that helps.

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L1qu1dSword

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#35 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"]

[QUOTE="Duo75"]LOL - Did you guys cope and paste the link he gave? Its the blog of the former Harmonix employ and if you read the comments almost everything he says gets ripped apart. Read his bio this dude didn't even go to school to be a programmer, so the only things he knows is the little bit of programming the he "picked up". Do people seriously buy into this?Duo75


Well OK debunk him.

I'm not going to take the time, just follow your own link and read the d@$% comments.

Yeah that changed my mind not at all. Nice try though.

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slickchris7777

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#36 slickchris7777
Member since 2005 • 1610 Posts
[QUOTE="jamesns"]

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiL1qu1dSword

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

No dumb lemming, uncharted was crowned graphics king of all consoles a while ago dumb dumb

by who, the same guys who said LAIR was going to be AAA? The same guys who said Resistance looked better then Gears of War? yeah...

But this time he's right.

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L1qu1dSword

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#37 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hislickchris7777

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

No dumb lemming, uncharted was crowned graphics king of all consoles a while ago dumb dumb

by who, the same guys who said LAIR was going to be AAA? The same guys who said Resistance looked better then Gears of War? yeah...

But this time he's right.

Every review I've seen that compared graphics would note something to the degree of "Uncharted is not as fancy as Gears but is still fun." I factor in the fact that I've actually played both and personally witnessed Gears to be far better visually. I guess I should throw all that out the window and just trust you.

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L1qu1dSword

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#38 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiDuo75

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

I have both gears and uncharted and uncharted looks better, of course i like color in my games so that helps.

You didn't have to tell me that you care less about detail and textures.

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humber_matus

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#39 humber_matus
Member since 2007 • 2101 Posts
[QUOTE="slickchris7777"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiL1qu1dSword

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

No dumb lemming, uncharted was crowned graphics king of all consoles a while ago dumb dumb

by who, the same guys who said LAIR was going to be AAA? The same guys who said Resistance looked better then Gears of War? yeah...

But this time he's right.

Every review I've seen that compared graphics would note something to the degree of "Uncharted is not as fancy as Gears but is still fun." I factor in the fact that I've actually played both and personally witnessed Gears to be far better visually. I guess I should throw all that out the window and just trust you.

ask santa for a new pair of glasses ...

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fablenoob

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#40 fablenoob
Member since 2004 • 254 Posts



gg
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L1qu1dSword

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#41 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts
[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="slickchris7777"][QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hihumber_matus

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

No dumb lemming, uncharted was crowned graphics king of all consoles a while ago dumb dumb

by who, the same guys who said LAIR was going to be AAA? The same guys who said Resistance looked better then Gears of War? yeah...

But this time he's right.

Every review I've seen that compared graphics would note something to the degree of "Uncharted is not as fancy as Gears but is still fun." I factor in the fact that I've actually played both and personally witnessed Gears to be far better visually. I guess I should throw all that out the window and just trust you.

ask santa for a new pair of glasses ...

sure maybe he'll bring a raincheck for instead of AAA ps3 games...

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crispytheone88

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#42 crispytheone88
Member since 2006 • 901 Posts

The HARD truth is that PS3 has arguably the best looking game on the market right now.

The HARD truth is that many developers have already stated that the PS3 has an edge with its hardware (Its tougher to develop for though)

The HARD truth is that it DOES come back to lazy porting. Instead of getting the game to perform well developers choose to get the game to merely run. It comes down to the money and it comes down to PS3's finnicky architecture, but that doesn't mean the hardware isn't powerful just hard to develop for.

The HARD truth is that 360 is just an awesome console period. It's pretty powerful, easy to develop for and has a large installed base.

The FACTS simply are that PS3 is more powerful not by much but still enough to make a difference in games over the next 2 to 3 years. I'm not going to get into all the techno-babble becuae 75% of you won't know what the he** I'm talking about lol.

360 has better games period, but more powerful hardware? tisk tisk tisk try again.

I_Helios_I

^^^ thats the truth

but the two machine are pretty closely matched, Its a much closer match than the PS2 vs xbox, I really don't think there will ever be anything produced on the Ps3 that will blow the 360 away

and for the last time, when developers port a game from the 360 to the Ps3, the reason they have issues is the main processor, the 360 has a triple core power PC, and the Ps3 has a single core power PC, they do not use any SPU's on ports, unless they rework the source code significantly, thats why COD4 was so good on both systems, they were developed for each system, you can see how close these two systems really are with that game

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cool_guy2000

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#43 cool_guy2000
Member since 2005 • 363 Posts

[QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiL1qu1dSword
Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

So you want people to believe you, over the reviewS who said Uncharted looks better than gears, which also has better animation, facial expressions and overall color. LOL

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L1qu1dSword

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#44 L1qu1dSword
Member since 2006 • 2835 Posts

[QUOTE="L1qu1dSword"][QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hicool_guy2000

Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

So you want people to believe you, over the reviewS who said Uncharted looks better than gears, which also has better animation, facial expressions and overall color. LOL

Link me those reviews. So far I've read differently.

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Yokijirou

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#45 Yokijirou
Member since 2004 • 37 Posts

Honestlly, if I had 10 grand, I'd buy you BOTH 5k PC's, so you would shut up =)

I just hate all of you peoples arguing about XBOX 360 this, PS3 that.

To each it's own.

Buy an apple, and eat it.

Buy an orange and eat it.

THey both have their differences, but they're both still tasty. As long as they are cooled, I don't like warm fruit.

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BigBaller21T

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#46 BigBaller21T
Member since 2004 • 416 Posts
this article is so old... i remember reading this way earlier in the year
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ff7isnumbaone

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#47 ff7isnumbaone
Member since 2005 • 5352 Posts

Source:

http://jbooth.blogspot.com/2007/10/ps3-misconceptions-and-spin.html

I read various game forums from time to time, and often see gamers complaining about 'lazy ports' to the ps3. They often mention how the ps3 is the most powerful game console and blame developers working on the console for doing a bad job. Sony has all of these people duped by impressive marketing spin, and I'm often amazed at how potent this type of rhetoric proves to be. For those unaware, I'm going to break it down simply and explain exactly why ports to the ps3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and why most ps3 exclusives will likely continue to suck. First, lets debunk a few common misconceptions:

"The PS3 is more graphically advanced than the 360"

Fill rate is one of the primary ways to measure graphics performance - in essence, it's a number describing how many pixel operations you can perform. The fill rate on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, meaning that games either have to run at lower resolution or use simpler shader effects to achieve the same performance. Additionally, the shader processing on the ps3 is significantly slower than on the 360, which means that a normal map takes more fill rate to draw on the ps3 than it does on the 360. And I'm not talking about small differences here, we're talking roughly half the pixel pushing power.

"Ok, fine, but the cell is like, super powerful"

In theory, sure, but in reality it doesn't work out that way. Game code simply doesn't split well across multiple processors. You can probably find a way to split a few things off fairly easily - put the audio on one processor, animation on another; but generally the breakup is always going to leave several of the SPUs idle or underutilized. On top of that, it's usually not CPU speed that restricts the visuals in games - it's fill rate.

"Uh, Blue Ray!"

Great for watching movies, but not so great for games. Getting data off the blue ray drive takes about twice as long as it does to get the same data off the 360's DVD drive. That translates into longer load times, or god forbid if your streaming from disk, tighter constraints on the amount of data you can stream.

"But it's got a lot more space than DVD"

Ok, you got me there - it does have a lot more space, and there is the potential to use that to do something cool, but thats unlikely to be realized in any useful way. There are tons of compression techniques available for data and I'd personally rather be able to get my data faster than have more of it. Most developers who use the entire Blue Ray drive are doing it to work around other problems with the ps3 such as it's slow loading - for instance, in Resistance: Fall of Man, every art asset is stored on disk once for every level that uses it. So rather than storing one copy of a texture, you're storing it 12 times. If you took that entire game and removed all the duplicate data, it would likely fit on a DVD without any problem. They do this to speed up load times, which, as I pointed out before, are painfully slow on the ps3. So in this case, the extra space is completely wasted.

"Once developers figure out the PS3 they'll maximize the hardware and it will be amazing"

I suspect a small number of PS3 only developers will optimize the hardware to do something cool. However, this will be an exception to the rule, and will likely involved game designs that are specifically designed for the hardware and funded by Sony. If those will prove to be fun or not is another question.

Most of the performance centric research into the PS3 has been around making it easier for developers to get the same level of performance you get out of the 360 naturally. For instance, some developers are using those extra SPU's on the cell to prepare data for the rendering pipeline. Basically, they take the data they would normally send to the graphics chip, send it to an SPU which optimizes it in some manner, then send it to the graphics chip. So, once again we see an 'advantage' in hardware being used to make up for a disadvantage in another area - a common theme with the ps3. And this introduces an extra frame of latency into the equation, making controller response slower.

So, the common theme is this; developers must spend significantly more time and resources getting the PS3 to do what the 360 can already do easily and with a lot less code. Lets look at how this translates into practical realities for a moment:

Why the PS3 version often pails in comparison to the 360 version, and why exclusives often suck:

As outlined above, getting equivalent performance out of the PS3 requires a lot of work unique to the platform, and in many cases, even with all these tricks, you still won't see equivalent performance. Thus, many ps3 games have simplified shaders and run at lower native resolutions than the 360 versions. On top of this, there is shrinking incentive to do this work; the PS3 isn't selling.

The code needed to make the PS3 work is most likely only useful to you on the PS3, as the types of tricks you need to do to make the thing perform are very unique to the platform and unlikely to be useful on any other architecture now or in the future. These issues all stem from unbalanced hardware design, and any future hardware that is this unbalanced will likely be unbalanced in a completely unique way.

Finally, there's the problem of resources. Game Development is, at it's heart, a resource management challenge. Given finite resources, do I have these five engineers work on optimizing the PS3 version to look better, or do I use them to make the game play better and fix bugs? Do I change my design to fit with what the PS3 hardware does well, or simply run the game at a slightly lower resolution on the PS3 to make up for it? Developers striving to push the PS3 hardware have often sacrificed their game in the process.

This post might come across as a lot of Sony bashing, but it's just the reality from the trenches. Sony let their hardware be designed by a comity of business interests rather than a well thought out design that would serve the game development community. They are going to loose hard this round because of it, and I hope that in the next round they take lessons from this round and produce a more balanced and usable machine.

L1qu1dSword

the 360 graphics maybe be > ps3's but ps3's graphics have been more appealing the eye. My eyes say ps3 seems looks better. Sorry I have to obey my eyes.

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blues3531

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#48 blues3531
Member since 2005 • 2632 Posts

[QUOTE="jamesns"]Uncharted says hi, gran turismo says hiL1qu1dSword
Gears came out a year ago and said hi first and still looks better.

this is just retarded. i own a 360 and gears has been topped all it has is awesom textures. nothing about gears back when it launched was impressive graphically except the textures. the 360 has better looking games than gears and so does the ps3. why can't lems let it go?

is it easier to just say gears looks better than a ps3 game than it is to just list other 360 games that also look better than gears?

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carsales

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#49 carsales
Member since 2006 • 1143 Posts
I own both the rrod, and the thing I put my dust on. and the rrod, has better graphics. I've seen some descent graphics on the waitstation but nothing has topped kameo yet. rrod ftw.
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Always-Honest

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#50 Always-Honest
Member since 2007 • 11261 Posts
old, and the PS2 had the highest fill rate last gen.....