4D gaming - the real deal

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Pangster007

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#1 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

I think a lot of people would be puzzled at what 4D gaming would be. Well, in a strict sense 4D exists in a mathematical sense, but that's not the point of this thread. In terms of gaming, i think 4D is immersion.

How are people trying to move gaming forward towards 4D, you ask? Here are my views:

Sony: I think it's quite apparent of the dirsetion Sony is heading towards. The advantages of the CPU would help significantly for raw calculations, a benefit to physics and AI. According to Phil at GDC, this generation of gaming is about user-created content and expanding that into an online virtual world. The 'Home' is also another way to draw gamers into the virtual world, this could be a part of immersion.

Nintendo: To be honest, Nintendo had the least freedom of how they could have approached this generation due to lack of success from previous generations and also the risks involved in introducing a new control scheme. Anyway, the emphasis in gaming immersion would most definitely be about the controls. It's obvious that motion controls have the potential to create immersion in gaming by allowing players to act out the game rather than pushing buttons. I think this is a very risky move but it's a big step towards VR.

Microsoft: I'm finding it difficult to find what MS is doing to advance gaming further, rather, their emphasis seems to be about breaking into the gaming market. What they have done, is set a benchmark for online gaming and building upon the foundations that have has already been set. By this, i mean, keeping to DVDs, bringing the PC online experience to consoles, and of course the basic CPU and GPU upgrades. In terms of immersion, i can't see much of what they have contributed. Most of that, i think, is highlighting the importance of textures, emphasising graphical immersion rather than intensive calculations.

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Danm_999

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#2 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

I really object to the use of the term 4D. I mean how is immersion a physical measurement used to define the characteristic of an object? It isn't.

I said this in the other thread, I'll say it again. Dimensions in video games aren't seperate concepts from dimensions in reality. 2D in reality = length and height, ditto for gaming. 3D in reality = length, height and breadth, ditto in gaming.

Why are we suddenly making things up for 4D?

But, sorry to de-rail your thread. As for your point, I think it's kind of silly to treat how much each console company is immersing us in such general terms. Fact is, they all are. And I think you're confusing innovation and immersion a tiny bit. 

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coreygames

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#3 coreygames
Member since 2005 • 5027 Posts
I think that the next "D" we are going to break is the 'actual 3D', none of this TV crap. I think the next dimension will be 3D as represented by holograms so that we aren't under the "illusion" of a 3D world. That's what I think.
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AdobeArtist

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#4 AdobeArtist  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25184 Posts

I really object to the use of the term 4D. I mean how is immersion a physical measurement used to define the characteristic of an object? It isn't.

I said this in the other thread, I'll say it again. Dimensions in video games aren't seperate concepts from dimensions in reality. 2D in reality = length and height, ditto for gaming. 3D in reality = length, height and breadth, ditto in gaming.

Why are we suddenly making things up for 4D?

But, sorry to de-rail your thread. As for your point, I think it's kind of silly to treat how much each console company is immersing us in such general terms. Fact is, they all are. And I think you're confusing innovation and immersion a tiny bit.

Danm_999

Because there IS NO authoratative definition for "4D". It's a complete fabrication as far as gaming goes. The only way sonyfanboys can justify 4D is to make up terms for it. 

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campbell1874

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#5 campbell1874
Member since 2006 • 1920 Posts

People shouldn't called it 4D.

If you want a 4D game go and play timesplitters.

The forth dimension is time.

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Puckhog04

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#6 Puckhog04
Member since 2003 • 22814 Posts

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

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Pangster007

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#7 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Puckhog04
4D is just a term. You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.
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Fusible

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#8 Fusible
Member since 2005 • 2828 Posts
[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

I really object to the use of the term 4D. I mean how is immersion a physical measurement used to define the characteristic of an object? It isn't.

I said this in the other thread, I'll say it again. Dimensions in video games aren't seperate concepts from dimensions in reality. 2D in reality = length and height, ditto for gaming. 3D in reality = length, height and breadth, ditto in gaming.

Why are we suddenly making things up for 4D?

But, sorry to de-rail your thread. As for your point, I think it's kind of silly to treat how much each console company is immersing us in such general terms. Fact is, they all are. And I think you're confusing innovation and immersion a tiny bit.

AdobeArtist

Because there IS NO authoratative definition for "4D". It's a complete fabrication as far as gaming goes. The only way sonyfanboys can justify 4D is to make up terms for it. 

I killed this bird over a year ago, but these new idiot's keep bringing it up. WTF!
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Danm_999

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#9 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts
[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Pangster007
4D is just a term. You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

Well, you seem to be confusing the concepts of innovation and immersion in your post anyway.
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rappid_rabbit

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#10 rappid_rabbit
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Puckhog04
Yeap.
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rappid_rabbit

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#11 rappid_rabbit
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
[QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Danm_999
4D is just a term. You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

Well, you seem to be confusing the concepts of innovation and immersion in your post anyway.

Yeap to that too.
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Fusible

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#12 Fusible
Member since 2005 • 2828 Posts
[QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Pangster007

4D is just a term.
You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

NO, thats called hiding the facts. It's like me calling a guy from South America, Mexican. When truly is from a different country in South America. Thats just ignorant to make such a statement about what that term is. 
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Jagazaar

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#13 Jagazaar
Member since 2007 • 1023 Posts
Immersion? I've played plenty of games that do that nicely, from previous gens. How, precisely, are better graphics, faster framerate, and louder gunshots etc going to improve that? Until I see a really shining example of TRUE breakthrough technology (which I don't see this gen doing) that really re-defines immersion for me, then I'll keep playing games just as I've always done, thank you.
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Pangster007

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#14 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

rappid_rabbit
4D is just a term. You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

Well, you seem to be confusing the concepts of innovation and immersion in your post anyway.

Yeap to that too.

Where do i confuse the 2?
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dark_templar_99

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#15 dark_templar_99
Member since 2005 • 2890 Posts
[QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Fusible

4D is just a term.
You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

NO, thats called hiding the facts. It's like me calling a guy from South America, Mexican. When truly is from a different country in South America. Thats just ignorant to make such a statement about what that term is.

You make it seem like mexico is in south america.... it is south of the US but its still in north america
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Danm_999

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#16 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts
[QUOTE="rappid_rabbit"][QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Pangster007
4D is just a term. You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

Well, you seem to be confusing the concepts of innovation and immersion in your post anyway.

Yeap to that too.

Where do i confuse the 2?

You keep talking about what the three consoles are actually bringing to gaming (you mention Sony bringing the Cell, Nintendo bringing the Wiimote and Microsoft is not bringing anything). You do make some points about immersion, as in Home and XBL, but you focus way more on how each company is innovating rather than drawing us in. Innovation can lead to immersion, but the two aren't synonyms.
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Pangster007

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#17 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
[QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

Fusible

4D is just a term.
You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

NO, thats called hiding the facts. It's like me calling a guy from South America, Mexican. When truly is from a different country in South America. Thats just ignorant to make such a statement about what that term is.

What fact is being hid? Your analogy just doesn't make sense with what i said.
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Pangster007

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#18 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
[QUOTE="Danm_999"]You keep talking about what the three consoles are actually bringing to gaming (you mention Sony bringing the Cell, Nintendo bringing the Wiimote and Microsoft is not bringing anything). You do make some points about immersion, as in Home and XBL, but you focus way more on how each company is innovating rather than drawing us in. Innovation can lead to immersion, but the two aren't synonyms.

I did not make them synonymous. My first post did pretty much say that innovation can lead to immersion.
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DKII

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#19 DKII
Member since 2004 • 353 Posts
4D refers to having all game objects aging in real-time, instead of just frozen in discrete states for the entire game. Didn't Kojima do some kind of demonstration of a broken watermelon sitting on the floor rotting away in real-time? Anyway yeah the 4th dimension is time which quite frankly isn't used in games today very much outside of the sun going up or down, having all game objects and environments age/decay in real-time would be a major breakthrough.
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#20 mmogoon
Member since 2006 • 7311 Posts
I dont really want to listen about "immersion" and "innovation" from a guy which anime and mario crap in his sig
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#21 y2kzorak
Member since 2006 • 381 Posts

4D could be:

1) Time

2) A physical axis

Want an interesting read on 4D without all the math? Try this: http://eusebeia.dyndns.org/4d/vis/vis.html

If the 4th dimension really is time, then 4D gaming has been around a while.

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Pangster007

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#22 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
4D refers to having all game objects aging in real-time, instead of just frozen in discrete states for the entire game. Didn't Kojima do some kind of demonstration of a broken watermelon sitting on the floor rotting away in real-time? Anyway yeah the 4th dimension is time which quite frankly isn't used in games today very much outside of the sun going up or down, having all game objects and environments age/decay in real-time would be a major breakthrough.DKII
The closest i can think of is Animal crossing, in which events happen in specific dates in real life...
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#23 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts

I really object to the use of the term 4D. I mean how is immersion a physical measurement used to define the characteristic of an object? It isn't.

I said this in the other thread, I'll say it again. Dimensions in video games aren't seperate concepts from dimensions in reality. 2D in reality = length and height, ditto for gaming. 3D in reality = length, height and breadth, ditto in gaming.

Why are we suddenly making things up for 4D?

But, sorry to de-rail your thread. As for your point, I think it's kind of silly to treat how much each console company is immersing us in such general terms. Fact is, they all are. And I think you're confusing innovation and immersion a tiny bit.

Danm_999
On the point of 4-D I fully agree. This idea that video games exist outside the laws of physics is crazy. 4-D is not coming to gaming unless you want to change the defintion of the word. /thread
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Fusible

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#24 Fusible
Member since 2005 • 2828 Posts
[QUOTE="Fusible"][QUOTE="Pangster007"][QUOTE="Puckhog04"]

Please stop using 4D...

It's just stupid and laughable at this point. Sony should never had made this comment.

dark_templar_99

4D is just a term.
You can still replace it with something like 'Next gen gaming'. The ideas and concepts are still there no matter what it's called.

NO, thats called hiding the facts. It's like me calling a guy from South America, Mexican. When truly is from a different country in South America. Thats just ignorant to make such a statement about what that term is.


You make it seem like mexico is in south america.... it is south of the US but its still in north america

See I just made my point about ignorant fools. Who don't grasp the concept, when explained to them. Here I'll explain it kindergarten. Every person born south of the U.S is a Mexican, not otherwise. This exactly what everybody assumes, when it's not the truth.
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dhjohns

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#25 dhjohns
Member since 2003 • 5105 Posts

4D could be:

1) Time

2) A physical axis

Want an interesting read on 4D without all the math? Try this: http://eusebeia.dyndns.org/4d/vis/vis.html

If the 4th dimension really is time, then 4D gaming has been around a while.

y2kzorak
No 4D gaming has not been around for a long time. :lol: Whenever you played this game you weren't manipulating time itself.
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#26 chrisdojo
Member since 2005 • 5065 Posts
sony is the real deal :roll:
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#27 caseypayne69
Member since 2002 • 5396 Posts
I think that the next "D" we are going to break is the 'actual 3D', none of this TV crap. I think the next dimension will be 3D as represented by holograms so that we aren't under the "illusion" of a 3D world. That's what I think.coreygames
some truth to this.  We currently play 3d games on a 2d screen.