Analyst States MGS 4 Will Not Help PS3 Sales

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deavincalhoun

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#1 deavincalhoun
Member since 2007 • 663 Posts

http://play.tm/wire/click/1633955

Analyst States MGS 4 Will Not Help PS3 Sales
Posted by Victor Dangelo | Dec 4, 2007 04:20

Future Publishing has released a report as to the impact MGS 4 may have, or may not have on the sales of the Sony PS3 consoles, stating that they do not feel that it will help PS3 sales at all.

It was reported on a week ago that Konami stated they must sell 1 million copies of Metal Gear Solid 4 on the PS3 on its launch day for it to be considered any type of success due to the money thrown into the development of the game.

The author of the report is sourced in the link in this article, as he stated that the release of MGS simply will not matter all that much to the sales of the PS3. The argument revolves around the statement that the game is really only for a hardcore audience, an audience which likely already owns a PS3 console and would not wait for MGS 4 just to pick it up.

It was also cited that the gaming market is far different than it used to be.

And cows dont give that bs that it wont happen because you guys jumped all overwhat patcher said about mass effect 2 on ps3.

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Udsen

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#2 Udsen
Member since 2007 • 3389 Posts
Meh. I don't listen to analysts.
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kcm_117

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#3 kcm_117
Member since 2004 • 2081 Posts
lol the flagship game of the ps3 is only projected to sell "at least a million"??? Halo sold like what....almost triple that?
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black_awpN1

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#4 black_awpN1
Member since 2004 • 7863 Posts
This further Proves analysts dont know anything.
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p2rus

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#5 p2rus
Member since 2005 • 2859 Posts
patcher also said that mass effect one would come to the ps3...
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#6 MikeE21286
Member since 2003 • 10405 Posts

who knows.....it's fun to talk about though, same with the Pachter stuff.

It sure as hell gets a fire under everyone's a**

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fuzzysquash

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#7 fuzzysquash
Member since 2004 • 17374 Posts

Forgive me if I save some typing effort and just copy & paste

One of the most often repeated SW myths is that MGS might be a good game, but it's not a system seller.

Proponents often proceed by way of three arguments, which I'll refute individually.

Argument #1: MGS is not mainstream.

No, it's not, but that doesn't mean it isn't a system seller. The concept of a "system seller" is difficult to define clearly, but we all have some general idea of what it means. If I might make an attempt: a "system seller" is a game or franchise that moves millions of units and is considered one of the most powerful reasons for why people buy a particular platform.

In this sense, MGS most certainly fits the definition.

Sales of Metal Gear Solid (PS) as of 2002 were at 6.6 million worldwide.

Sales of Metal Gear Solid 2: The Sons of Liberty (PS2) as of 2006 were at over 7 million worldwide.

Sales of Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PS2) as of 2007 were at 3.7 million worldwide (not including Subsistence).

On the Playstation, Metal Gear Solid sales followed only Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Tomb Raider, and Crash Bandicoot, all of which are considered system sellers for the Playstation. Out of thousands of Playstation titles, MGS was the seventh best selling game on the platform.

On the Playstation 2, Metal Gear Solid 2 sales followed only Grand Theft and Gran Turismo, both of which are considered major system sellers. It outsold such system moving franchises as Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest. Out of thousands of Playstation 2 titles, Metal Gear Solid 2 was the sixth best selling game on the platform.

Metal Gear Solid 3, the latest and least popular of the MGS games, followed close behind MGS2 in ninth place out of all Playstation 2 games. It still beat popular games like Dragon Quest VIII, Devil May Cry, and Kingdom Hearts II.

No, MGS is not mainstream, but the numbers show that it is beyond question a system seller for Playstation platforms.

Argument #2: MGS sales are only a fraction of Playstation and PS2's huge userbase.

True. But again, this fact does not mean the franchise is not a system seller.

Two things to consider. First, there weren't 130 million PS2 owners when MGS2 launched in November 2001. The Playstation 2 was barely a year old. The fact of the matter is that MGS2 was a tremendous help to get the Playstation 2's momentum going and establish a strong install base.

Second, if MGS2 is only a fraction of the PS2's userbase, so is Grand Theft Auto. And Gran Turismo.

But would anyone venture to suggest that these two franchises are not system sellers? The bare-bones truth is that when evaluating whether a game is a system seller on the Playstation and PS2 platforms, the ratio of game sales to install base is meaningless, because the install bases of those two platforms are gigantic, spread across a huge demographic, and thus diminish any franchise's sales to a fraction of their total.

So just because every franchise on PS and PS2 is a fraction of the install base, the PS and PS2 have no system sellers? That's obviously nonsensical. With install bases that huge, there must have been a healthy amount of system sellers for both PS and PS2.

MGS is one of them because like all the other franchises indubitably considered "system sellers" on Playstation platforms, it moves millions of units per iteration and provides a powerful incentive for people to purchase the platform.

Argument 3: MGS is a system seller, but the series is on the decline

The third argumentative approach is to concede that MGS is a system-selling franchise, but focus on the relatively low sales of MGS3 compared to MGS and MGS2, and hence assert that the series is dropping off the map.

This, I agree, is a possibility, but a highly unlikely one. More likely than not, MGS4 will be the Playstation 3's first big system seller, and I'll explain why.

The argument that MGS3 sold less than MGS2, and therefore MGS4 will sell less than MGS3, assumes a linear slope of decline in sales for the series. This of course, is an entirely unsubstantiated assumption. For example, Gran Turismo (Playstation) sold 10.5 million, GT2 (PS) sold 8.5 million, GT3 (PS2) sold 11 million, and GT4 (PS2) sold 8.79 million. As you can see, sales trends for GT games have been anything but linear, yet no one would suggest that GT is not a system seller, or that GT5 will sell less than GT4 because GT4 sold less than GT3.

Like the Gran Turismo series, MGS games have traditionally been a showcase for Playstation platforms.At trade shows like E3 and TGS, crowds would jam the convention floor with their mouths agape at the technical and aesthetic achievement of the debut MGS trailer.

Given that MGS3 was a late game on the Playstation 2, its debut had nowhere close the impact as MGS or MGS2. Its controls were also more complex than ever, creating a higher than usual learning curve and thus limiting itself to a narrower audience.

Unlike MGS3, MGS4 was a return to form for the series, as its debut at TGS in November 2005 literally brought the industry to a halt (those of you on the forums then will remember).

It had the same impact as MGS and MGS2 in terms of generating that instantaneous and universal reaction of awe at the first time Snake's profile was shown. And Kojima Productions has worked tirelessly to streamline the controls for a broader audience, as evidenced by the ample gameplay footage available.

MGS4's hype continues to this day, and the level of anticipation for this title far exceeds anything prior to MGS3. At Tokyo Game Show this year, Gamespot reported that even with a record 48 kiosks, attendees still waited up to 3 and a half hours to play the demo, and packed the show floor to see the new trailer.

Seasoned industry analyst Michael Pachter even suggests that Sony may adjust its pricing next year to coincide with the launch of "blockbuster games Grand Theft Auto IV and PS3 exclusive Metal Gear Solid 4." Source

Whether Sony will take such action is irrelevant to the purposes of this thread. The purpose is to argue that MGS is a system selling franchise and that MGS4 has tremendous potential to duplicate the success of MGS and MGS2. Analysts support the point by reiterating it and basing their projections on it.

People might say that MGS4 will sell less than MGS3, and that the series is dropping off the map. If I were to bet, I'd say that the MGS series will follow a similar pattern to the GT series. As the technical showcase for the Playstation 3 and the debut MGS title on that console, MGS4 will more likely than not move millions of Playstation 3's and continue its reputation as a system selling franchise for Playstation platforms.

Addendum: A certain poster has challenged me on the point that I did not show a sales spike immediately after the launch of an MGS game, and thus I have not demonstrated that MGS is a system seller. This individual claims that MGS games may have sold in a slow trickle, and thus cannot be said to have pushed sales of the PS2 console.

Given that MGS and MGS2 (the system sellers of the franchise) launched so long ago, it is difficult to obtain data on sales trends. Nevertheless, here is even more evidence to bolster my position, from an article published by gamespot the month after MGS2 launched:

Sony releases more Playstation 2 sales figures

The Playstation 2 is doing quite well despite two new competitors on the market.

Sony Computer Entertainment America has announced that it has sold 1.5 million units of the Playstation 2 since the week of Thanksgiving helping to establish an installed user base of 6.5 million units in the US. Sony also claims that according to TRSTS reports from the NPD Group, Playstation and Playstation 2 software sales have accounted for more than two-thirds of the video game software market during the month of November. Sales from the Playstation family of products, including hardware, software, and peripherals, have generated more than $700 million in revenue during the same time period.

Konami's Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty was the best-selling console game in November, followed by Grand Theft Auto III, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, Harry Potter: The Sorcerer's Stone, Madden NFL 2002, and WWF Smackdown! Just Bring It. In all, the Playstation family of products accounted for five of the top 10 best-selling console games in November and more than 60 percent of that in total revenue.

source

As you can see, Metal Gear Solid 2 was outselling Grand Theft Auto III on its debut, though GTA III (an undisputed system seller) had launched less than a month earlier. As the leading title in December 2001, there is no doubt MGS2 helped establish the PS2 as the dominant system in that month and in the broader generation.

MGS2 sold in a slow trickle? The facts say otherwise.

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fuzzysquash

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#8 fuzzysquash
Member since 2004 • 17374 Posts

lol the flagship game of the ps3 is only projected to sell "at least a million"??? Halo sold like what....almost triple that?kcm_117

Halo 3 has already sold 5 million.

And whichever analyst projected that MGS4 will only sell 1 million should consider finding a new job.

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Eponique

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#9 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
Omg. I always thought analysts were a bunch of PS fanboys, but when they're not being PS fanboys they STILL end up being WRONG.
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Blue-Sphere

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#10 Blue-Sphere
Member since 2006 • 1972 Posts
I disagree completely with that analyst. Especially if the PS3 were to get another price drop by the time MGS4 comes out.
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linkin_guy109

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#11 linkin_guy109
Member since 2005 • 8864 Posts
dude flagship, good post man
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edward2332

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#12 edward2332
Member since 2005 • 988 Posts

I've been saying this all along. MGS is NOT a casual game. It only appeals to a portion of the gaming community. Casual games are games like Madden, Halo, GTA, etc.

I mean, you can mention those 3 games to pretty much ANYONE and they will know what you're talking about. Most casuals don't even know what Metal Gear Solid is.

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Pajamasalad

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#13 Pajamasalad
Member since 2007 • 356 Posts
I think the it will help sales. Not as much as some forum people think, but it will. I do think that in the end the PS3 will come it last place but it won't be as far behind as it is now.
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#14 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
Pachter is an idiot, but he usually says good stuff about the PS3, his Sony paymasters will not be happy. Back to a bamboo cage for you Pachter! :P
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kcm_117

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#15 kcm_117
Member since 2004 • 2081 Posts

[QUOTE="kcm_117"]lol the flagship game of the ps3 is only projected to sell "at least a million"??? Halo sold like what....almost triple that?fuzzysquash

Halo 3 has already sold 5 million.

And whichever analyst projected that MGS4 will only sell 1 million should consider finding a new job.

i meant on the first day

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Metal_RAY

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#16 Metal_RAY
Member since 2007 • 371 Posts
Fuzzsquash pwned this thread
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#17 EPaul
Member since 2006 • 9917 Posts

I disagree with this analyst

by the way excellent post @ Fuzzysquash, i actually learnt a few things in SW

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Eponique

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#18 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts
I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.
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#19 kingfire11
Member since 2005 • 1498 Posts

lol the flagship game of the ps3 is only projected to sell "at least a million"??? Halo sold like what....almost triple that?kcm_117

Halo is a casual game, unlike MGS4 which targets the hardcores.

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VendettaRed07

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#20 VendettaRed07
Member since 2007 • 14012 Posts

fuzzysquash
yikes....
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Kahuna_1

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#21 Kahuna_1
Member since 2006 • 7948 Posts

I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.Eponique

Didnt Mario sell like 300k its first week in Japan?

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rocktimusprime

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#22 rocktimusprime
Member since 2006 • 3721 Posts
analyst also said the 360 was going to be out sold by ps3 2-1 this november......this is why they are analysts.
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Eponique

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#23 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts

[QUOTE="Eponique"]I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.Kahuna_1

Didnt Mario sell like 300k its first week in Japan?

251k. Has massive legs though, thanks to WiiFit :lol:

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Kahuna_1

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#24 Kahuna_1
Member since 2006 • 7948 Posts
[QUOTE="Kahuna_1"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.Eponique

Didnt Mario sell like 300k its first week in Japan?

251k. Has massive legs though, thanks to WiiFit :lol:

lol, haha

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Private_Vegas

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#25 Private_Vegas
Member since 2007 • 2783 Posts
It is my professional opinion as a jerk that analysists know nothing about anything, and a lot about nothing.
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locopatho

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#26 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Who the **** is paying these "analysts"?
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Udsen

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#27 Udsen
Member since 2007 • 3389 Posts
Everyone I talk to got a PS3 for MGS4. Or, I said that wrong. They want a PS3 for MGS4 and will wait for it.
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ReverseCycology

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#28 ReverseCycology
Member since 2006 • 9717 Posts

Makes sense. Most people who wants MGS4 already have a PS3. Sure some people are still waiting for MGS4 before getting a PS3, but it won't be as much people as you might have thought. It'll sell a system or two, but it won't be enough to help PS3 sales. The PS3 needs to help itself, lower the price even more, and release more games. No one game will help a brand new system with other systems in the competition. Just wait.

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TheJustin

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#30 TheJustin
Member since 2006 • 2197 Posts
When Metal gear 4 comes out is when I'll be buying a PS3. So that statement is already complete and utter BS instead of just "normal" BS.
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NuclearFreedom

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#31 NuclearFreedom
Member since 2006 • 1235 Posts
pffftt analasysts........v
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Eponique

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#32 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts

Who the **** is paying these "analysts"?locopatho

I would like to know this as well. Is there a company that pays homeless people for saying random numbers?

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Funkyhamster

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#33 Funkyhamster
Member since 2005 • 17366 Posts
It's true...
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locopatho

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#34 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Who the **** is paying these "analysts"?Eponique

I would like to know this as well. Is there a company that pays homeless people for saying random numbers?

And if so,how do I join? :P

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Hitamaru-homia

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#35 Hitamaru-homia
Member since 2006 • 2046 Posts
Ryan Payton said must sell 1 million on first day to even being worth a warrant. xD! That was basically what he said. i got a ps3 and getting it on the first day. I bet it sales more then halo on first day HANDS DOWN!!! xD! MGS has more of a cult following XD!
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#36 Adrian_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 7169 Posts

I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.Eponique

Its the number 4 most wanted game, do you have any realistic to why it will bomb?

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#37 slick_gio
Member since 2004 • 1523 Posts

http://play.tm/wire/click/1633955

Analyst States MGS 4 Will Not Help PS3 Sales
Posted by Victor Dangelo | Dec 4, 2007 04:20

Future Publishing has released a report as to the impact MGS 4 may have, or may not have on the sales of the Sony PS3 consoles, stating that they do not feel that it will help PS3 sales at all.

It was reported on a week ago that Konami stated they must sell 1 million copies of Metal Gear Solid 4 on the PS3 on its launch day for it to be considered any type of success due to the money thrown into the development of the game.

The author of the report is sourced in the link in this article, as he stated that the release of MGS simply will not matter all that much to the sales of the PS3. The argument revolves around the statement that the game is really only for a hardcore audience, an audience which likely already owns a PS3 console and would not wait for MGS 4 just to pick it up.

It was also cited that the gaming market is far different than it used to be.

And cows dont give that bs that it wont happen because you guys jumped all overwhat patcher said about mass effect 2 on ps3.

deavincalhoun

EDIT:

Why do the forums sometimes eat my posts? And why does it sometimes group words together even though they have spaces when I write it up? Bleh.

Anyways, I won't write up that post anymore so a summerized version will do. Halo 3 sold a lot, but it didn't move enough units to make any real impact. Reggie said something about that and people didn't believe it at the time, and the proof is in the pudding.

Even IF MGS4 is able to cause the sale of 1 million PS3 units (as opposed to simply selling to people who allready own the system) it wouldn't put a dent in the overall scheme of things. A console needs exclusives as an incentive for consumers to buy it. Wii has a reason and to a lesser extent so does the 360. I don't see the PS3 withtoo manyreasons. Any reason will be found on the 360. Then again, the only reason the PS3 has is it's also a blue-ray player. And yes, I mean reasons, not exclusive titles. An exclusive title gives a reason and so does some kind of functionality, it doesn't always need to be a game (for 360 and PS3 anyway).

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Eponique

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#38 Eponique
Member since 2007 • 17918 Posts

[QUOTE="Eponique"]I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.Adrian_Cloud

Its the number 4 most wanted game, do you have any realistic to why it will bomb?

All PS2 games that jumped to the PS3 game are on the decline.

Everybody's Golf 4 (PS2) - 1.5 million
Everybody's Golf Portable (PSP, Spinoff) - 600k
Everybody's Golf 5 (PS3) - 300k

Dynasty Warriors 4 (PS2) - 982k
Dynasty Warriors 5 (PS3) - 289k
Dynasty Warriors 6 (PS3) - 310k

My Summer Holidays 2 (PS2) - 400k
My Summer Holidays 3 (PS3) - 50k

Metal Gear Solid 3 - 850k
Metal Gear Solid 4 - ???

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Adrian_Cloud

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#39 Adrian_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 7169 Posts
[QUOTE="Adrian_Cloud"]

[QUOTE="Eponique"]I do believe however, that MGS will absolutely bomb in Japan. With only 200k-300k.Eponique

Its the number 4 most wanted game, do you have any realistic to why it will bomb?

All PS2 games that jumped to the PS3 game are on the decline.

Everybody's Golf 4 (PS2) - 1.5 million
Everybody's Golf Portable (PSP, Spinoff) - 600k
Everybody's Golf 5 (PS3) - 300k

Dynasty Warriors 4 (PS2) - 982k
Dynasty Warriors 5 (PS3) - 289k
Dynasty Warriors 6 (PS3) - 310k

My Summer Holidays 2 (PS2) - 400k
My Summer Holidays 3 (PS3) - 50k

Metal Gear Solid 3 - 850k
Metal Gear Solid 4 - ???

No not really, R&C: TOD outsold its PS2 counter part. So saying all would be incorrect, and you could obviously contribute the fact that those games A) aren't as highly anticipated B) don't have the same amount of fanbase C) aren't meant to be the staple for its console C) the games are released on a system with a lower user base.

MGS4 will sell better than MGS2 mark my words... the situation of MGS4 reminds me a lot like when MGS2 came out. MGS4 might even outsell GTAIV for a while kinda like MGS2.

MGS4 might sell 250k in a day, GT5: P sold 50,000 and it wasn't even on the top games list.
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#40 Yodas_Boy
Member since 2007 • 857 Posts
These "analysts" always seem to be wrong, and I'm sick of listening to them (so I don't anymore).