Another interview talking about the harm of used game sales

Most of the time here on SWs, you will see people posting that piracy is 'killing' PC gaming, but as time has gone on and Gamespot has grone, used game sales are starting to become a new threat to developers/publishers.

http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/10642.html

I think consoles will have it much rougher than PCs if these things are not fixed. PCs really only have piracy to worry about, but consoles have piracy, used games, and game rentals. Three things all effecting the devs and publishers from making their money back.

if they take steps to end the used and rental game markets i'm done with any company that does it, it is as simple as that.

most games simply are not worth buying but they are good enough to put in my gamefly Q.

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

I buy new and used games because some of them simply aren't worth paying full price for, and no, I don't just pay $5 less for my used games.

An actual industry in used games is a plague, as bad as piracy, for the gaming community.blue_hazy_basic

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

DarkLink77

Lots of truth here.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]An actual industry in used games is a plague, as bad as piracy, for the gaming community.Riverwolf007

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

GS needs a strikethrough feature so I can rattle off a the laundry list of "_____ is killing *insert publishing industry here*" boogeymen in a snarky manner. :evil:

But off the top of my head...

• The VCR (movies; the head of the MPAA at the time actually compared it to the Boston Strangler)
• Home taping (the music industry)
• Used movie and album sales (duh)
• Modded consoles (duh)
• Player pianos (the music industry)
• Counterfeits (everything)
• Internet piracy (everything)
• Rogue internet sites (everything)
• The printing press (there were probably some pissed off monks in Germany or something)

And yet everyone is raking in record profits these days. Weird.

Videogames are just way overpriced for what they are, thats why most people buy their games used or if they cant wait to play a new game they rent. Either way its money out of the pockets of the people responsible for bringing you the game in the first place. There is no reason why video games should cost so much.

If these companies want to stop used games working in future consoles ( and i completely agree with their reasons for doing so ) then they need to reduce the cost to buy their games by at least half of what a new game costs now IMO.

Nothing for me to worry about though because PC games are cheap enough to buy new and i have zero interest in owning any console after my disappointment in the current ones.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]An actual industry in used games is a plague, as bad as piracy, for the gaming community.blue_hazy_basic

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]An actual industry in used games is a plague, as bad as piracy, for the gaming community.blue_hazy_basic

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

i guess i would support killing the used market if there was some sort of guarantee that prices would fall but i don't think that would happen.

i also think as horrible as they are gamestop or other used outlets get games into the hands of people that would otherwise not be able to buy new and that overall they are helping to expand the market and assure more new sales in the future by increasing a franchises fanbase.

my main concern is really the ability to rent games since 90% of the time i just blow through these games in a few hours or days and take them back and i just don't want to blow $60 on something i know i will finish quickly.

for example the darkness 2, i know i won't play it online but i really want to see the campaign but seeing the campaign is not worth $60.

unless there is some sort of way to rent these games it is going to really mess up the way i do things when it comes to gaming.

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]you need to elaborate on that because i know you well enough to think that you may actually have an argument that could change my attitude towards this issue.

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

i guess i would support killing the used market if there was some sort of guarantee that prices would fall but i don't think that would happen.

i also think as horrible as they are gamestop or other used outlets get games into the hands of people that would otherwise not be able to buy new and that overall they are helping to expand the market and assure more new sales in the future by increasing a franchises fanbase.

my main concern is really the ability to rent games since 90% of the time i just blow through these games in a few hours or days and take them back and i just don't want to blow $60 on something i know i will finish quickly.

for example the darkness 2, i know i won't play it online but i really want to see the campaign but seeing the campaign is not worth $60.

unless there is some sort of way to rent these games it is going to really mess up the way i do things when it comes to gaming.

Another thing what happens when the less fortunate can't sell his or her game for a new one?pppjjj

[QUOTE="pppjjj"]Another thing what happens when the less fortunate can't sell his or her game for a new one?PurpleMan5000

Trying so hard to care...but nope. Can't do it.

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

DarkLink77

I agree. Companies are walking a fine line, pushing gamers a little bit to far. Things like this can cause an industry crash.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]An actual industry in used games is a plague, as bad as piracy, for the gaming community.blue_hazy_basic

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

if they take steps to end the used and rental game markets i'm done with any company that does it, it is as simple as that.

most games simply are not worth buying but they are good enough to put in my gamefly Q.

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]you need to elaborate on that because i know you well enough to think that you may actually have an argument that could change my attitude towards this issue.

delta3074

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

It is the developer/publisher/retailer relationship that needs to be worked out. It is not the consumer responsibility to worry about these things. No used games will mean stricter prices. When people think used games they automatically think Gamestop, or a store like gamestop. In reality, there actually are times where little Billy might want to buy Uncharted from little Timmy to save money.

I grew up around the nes/snes era, and it was not uncommon for one person to buy X game, another person to buy Y game, and then swap them when they were both finished.

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

DarkLink77

I don't want to sound like a kiss ass, but you're right. I for one would have a lot less games in my library if I got them all at the starting price.

I hate that some people actually think that the Used Games Market is scum and should be gotten rid of.

There is nothing wrong with Used Games at all.

I only buy used on consoles, and I buy about 5 games a year for consoles. Everything I buy on the PC is new with the brilliant prices Steam has to offer. (e.g. Rage is 25€ as we speak)

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

Heirren

I agree. Companies are walking a fine line, pushing gamers a little bit to far. Things like this can cause an industry crash.

The way developers and publishers are reacting to used game sales is similar to how the music industry first responded to peer-to-peer file sharing (i.e. they're using tactics that not only upset consumers, but also won't really work in the long-term). The industry simply needs to learn new ways to make money despite used games and piracy.

Yeah, shame on people for wanting to save money and not pay $60 for every video game they buy. :roll:

If they want me to pay full price for a game, then make a game that's worth it.

Or better yet, make games cheaper.

And this whole, "Oh, wouldn't it be great if there were no used games" sh!t is nonsense. How the hell would you play old console games if you couldn't buy them used? Sure, some of them come up on PSN/ABLA/Steam, and some get remade, but more often than not, they don't, and if they do, the ports are sub-par or lacking features, and the only way to get those games is used.DarkLink77

I'm not against used game sales, but going the PC way and not letting anyone but one guy use it, or online passes are just dumb.

If they want us to get over used sales, they have to find a way to allow rentals and let me lend the game to my friend as well as play older games I can find unless they are used. I know Volition came up with ideas to allow this like license transferring to a friend to lend it, having all games downloadable like in Steam (and with later sales and such), and they could also do digital rentals.

Truthfully though, its just dumb and desperate. If I buy a movie, I can sell or lend that movie to anyone, no problem. Same with music, and books. If a developer wants that with their games, they should consider going all digital instead of gimping physical copies because they're greedy.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]An actual industry in used games is a plague, as bad as piracy, for the gaming community.blue_hazy_basic

Look at how successful steam has been on the PC. New games worth playing get customers, but games that you are on the cusp of buying or have no interest in, all of a sudden get a huge mark down and sell bunches in the steam sales (both daily, weekly and the big steam sales). The developers (esp of indie games) receive a whole wave of customers who would never have bought the game.

The used market discourages that.

Console gamers without realising it, are actually being hurt by the 2nd hand market, not helped.

Impulse, GameInformer, preorder deals etc.

Whether that is good or bad is up to debate, but obviously, at least in the above case, money is circulating inside the game industry. Any analyst will agree that a store that lives and thrives off of video games, be they new or used, is in fact a part of the game industry and any growth they experience is likely related to growth in the industry as a whole.

I do agree that many games, especially on consoles, do not offer value for money atm in terms of content. Being able to blow through a game in 6-8 hrs, regardless of the quality of those hours, does not represent value for me and devlopers must bear a good deal of the brunt of the blame for the 2nd hand market, not just levelling it at gamers.blue_hazy_basic

Fact: Gaming is cheaper now than it ever has been in the past.

Fact: Games give you more bang for your buck than they ever have in the past.

Prior to the 2000s games giving you more than 5-8 hours of game play were a rarity. Now 10 hours is considered on the short end.

In the late 1970s people paid $30-$45 for Atari games like Asteroids Which would be equivalent to paying over $100 for the game today. These were games that you could see everything they had to offer within 5-10 min. The only point of replaying was to beat a high score.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] I do agree that many games, especially on consoles, do not offer value for money atm in terms of content. Being able to blow through a game in 6-8 hrs, regardless of the quality of those hours, does not represent value for me and devlopers must bear a good deal of the brunt of the blame for the 2nd hand market, not just levelling it at gamers.CajunShooter

Fact: Gaming is cheaper now than it ever has been in the past.

Fact: Games give you more bang for your buck than they ever have in the past.

Prior to the 2000s games giving you more than 5-8 hours of game play were a rarity. Now 10 hours is considered on the short end.

In the late 1970s people paid $30-$45 for Atari games like Asteroids Which would be equivalent to paying over $100 for the game today. These were games that you could see everything they had to offer within 5-10 min. The only point of replaying was to beat a high score.

There are still a lot of games out there that are garbage, and then most places do not let you return games once they've been opened if you happen to hate a game you just payed $65 for. How many products out there do not let you try something before you buy it, or are un-returnable?

Oh they will get over it when they realize that used gaming is saving many of gamestops employees from getting layed off, gamefly staying in business, redbox from losing a key part, selling games becoming worthless

I really do not think the people who are against used games actually think it through

Cry more.

Learn to manage your f*cking development costs if games are so damn expensive. Or maybe you could sell what are clearly budget games for a lower price. :o

Shocking, I know.

And if used games bother you so much, go after GameStop. Don't shaft the consumer who's just taking advantage of a good deal.

This is an expensive hobby. Most games aren't woth $60. People want to save money. Get used to it.

DarkLink77

This. And make games that are WORTH keeping. Don't just rehash the same crap that goes on & on like what's currently going on with FPS games.

It is the developer/publisher/retailer relationship that needs to be worked out. It is not the consumer responsibility to worry about these things. No used games will mean stricter prices. When people think used games they automatically think Gamestop, or a store like gamestop. In reality, there actually are times where little Billy might want to buy Uncharted from little Timmy to save money.

I grew up around the nes/snes era, and it was not uncommon for one person to buy X game, another person to buy Y game, and then swap them when they were both finished.Heirren

Exactly. The thing about used game sells is they provide competition which helps keep the market in check, remember that MSRP rarely goes down unlike used prices. You may complain about gamestop, but you still pay more (sometimes a lot more) for new as opposed to used and at least you have choice.

The more options a customer has the more they benefit and the better the industry does.

Second hand sales will exist forever. Adapt, find other ways to make profits, stop whining.meetroid8

They are, and people are qqing about those to lmao.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]Second hand sales will exist forever. Adapt, find other ways to make profits, stop whining.GD1551

They are, and people are qqing about those to lmao.

Because Online Passes are really really dumb.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]Second hand sales will exist forever. Adapt, find other ways to make profits, stop whining.LegatoSkyheart

They are, and people are qqing about those to lmao.

Because Online Passes are really really dumb.

I agree, but from their POV I don't agree. If you are telling them to suck it up I guess they are saying the same thing back.

I agree, but from their POV I don't agree. If you are telling them to suck it up I guess they are saying the same thing back.GD1551

[QUOTE="GD1551"]I agree, but from their POV I don't agree. If you are telling them to suck it up I guess they are saying the same thing back.Sir_Graham

[QUOTE="Sir_Graham"][QUOTE="GD1551"]I agree, but from their POV I don't agree. If you are telling them to suck it up I guess they are saying the same thing back.Makari

It's they who rely on our money to keep their business alive. Not the other way around. If they want our money they need to give us what we want. I know someone will and I don't really care who it is. Companies who don't listen to the consumer die unless there is a monopoly in the market and there isn't anything close to a monopoly in the game market. There is plenty competition and choice in core gaming and even more in home entertainment in general. In such a competitive environment bad decisions are often fatal.

Taking things as simply as possible - if you're buying used games, no, they are not relying on your money. Gamestop is relying on your money.

Honestly, I think PC gaming generally shows the future of things, and Steam is pretty much it. Consoles are going to get there soon too, and with it comes lower prices, frequent sales, and the complete and total death of used games. I like it.

I honestly hope you don't think that what's currently happening on the PC is going to happen on home gaming consoles as well. If you think that publishers/developers are going to be all nice to you & give you great prices on closed gaming platforms once the used gaming market goes away, you're out of your mind.

[QUOTE="Sir_Graham"][QUOTE="GD1551"]I agree, but from their POV I don't agree. If you are telling them to suck it up I guess they are saying the same thing back.Makari

gaming industry is dead the developers only think about themselves and dont think about how the consumer is getting ****ed

**** modern video games and developers

Developers are stealing from consumers **** them

I'm buying far less games without a used game market. It's not used games that are the problem, it's game stores.

No used product in any market is supposed to contribute back to the source. The truth is, this is one pie the developers, publishers and corporate types have NO right to. Piracy is wrong, i'm against that, used sales are not.

Take away the used game market, i'm buying maybe a quarter of the games I normally would. I'm just not going to risk £40 on a game I might not like. Also without the used game market, it will keep game prices high, as nothing will force the publishers to bring down the price. So basically all good games stay expensive.

I have games i'm happy I got used and cheap, because i've played them once or twice and never played them again.