APB (MMO by Crackdown devs) finally makes its debut *56k go away*

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fakecliche

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#1 fakecliche
Member since 2008 • 668 Posts

GDC 2008: APB First Look
David Jones wows us with his first MMO.
by Erik Brudvig

February 21, 2008 - Known for Lemmings, Grand Theft Auto and Crackdown, David Jones has tackled a number of genres in his successful career as a game designer. Currently he's stepping outside of his comfort zone and taking on the massively multiplayer online game with APB, but of course he's doing it with his own signature. There are no orcs or elves or space aliens in this game, as has become somewhat of a tradition in the MMO. This title isn't even an RPG. It's something new and rather exciting. We got our first look at APB at a talk Jones gave at the Game Developers Conference about approaching the genre for the first time. To say we were impressed is putting it simply. In a room filled with hundreds of developers eager to see what Jones had cooked up, we sat in a sea of people who make games for a living overheard saying everything from, "Oh wow!" to, "Why didn't I think of that?"

The lecture began with Jones introducing himself and a bit of humor. After mentioning the success of his new studio RealTime Worlds and Crackdown (It won "Best Debut" from the Game Developer Choice Awards at GDC.), he went on to say, "If you didn't like it, never mind it came with a Halo 3 beta." Fair enough, though after seeing APB it looks like Crackdown was made as something of a test bed for the next project.

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Our images are were taken off-screen with a handheld camera. Forgive the low quality, please.

This being the Game Developers Conference, Jones spent the first portion of his talk going through his design philosophy for APB. It begins with defining what the term MMO means. "When you say MMO now," Jones said, "immediately they think you've got to go up against World of Warcraft" The term has become almost synonymous with MMORPG and has become tainted with a stigma. Jones wants to make a multiplayer online game with dedicated servers, but wants it to be cool. As he noted, when your friends come over and you ask them to play Call of Duty or Halo, they think the idea is cool. If they come over and you start talking about your World of Warcraft character, they get turned off.

That may generalize things a bit but the point is clear: Things like AK-47s are instantly recognizable whereas their "geek" counterparts (a Braggarts Bow was cited as an example) are niche. Jones' advice is to, "Make games contemporary; make them cool, it lowers the barrier." This is why he wants to rephrase the question from, "What would you do with an MMO?" to "If you have dedicated servers behind a game, how would you embrace them?" APB is an attempt to take the games Jones likes to make and use dedicated servers to take them to the next level.

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Driving in styIe

Jones began showing the game by giving us a peek at the character customization tools RealTime Worlds has made. "We will not create any of the players in the game. The players will create them," said Jones before following up with, "One of the problems with user created content is that 90% of it is crap. We've all seen Second Life." To solve this problem the team has put together a character tool that is above and beyond anything I've seen before.

It looks simple to use, but the depth of what we saw was astounding. The traditional things are all customizable like skin tone, height, build, eye color and hair **** This goes much farther though. You can grow hair out all together or in pieces, scars can be added and then aged, and you can even make veins more or less pronounced. The great part about everything we saw was the freedom given without the ability to push things too far. "We don't want really strange looking characters," says Jones and as all of the sliders were moved back and forth we never saw anything that did. All of this can be done with either a male or female character.

Then things got impressive. There's a vector graphics and primitive shapes tool similar to what the Forza franchise is famous for. Tattoos can be made and applied -- and they look incredibly real when laid down on the skin. You can also put those same decals on any piece of clothing or any car you own, spray paint them on a wall, trade them with friends or sell them. The entire Forza livery tool is in APB (though we're not sure how many layers you can stack) in an expanded form and it's just a subsection of the game. "One thing you want to do in your clan is draft a good artist," says Jones.

Just how powerful is this character creation tool? Jones went on to show a "clan" he created specifically for GDC. He called them the Geek Squad. It consisted of Peter Molyneux with an "I heart Fable" shirt, Warren Specter, Richard Garriot and Miyamoto with a Mario t-shirt. Also, Miyamoto wasn't wearing any pants and had mushroom boxers. All of them were instantly recognizable and remarkable.

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Miyamoto created in APB.

The idea of players creating the world goes a step further with the music. RealTime Worlds is working with Last.FM on an intriguing way to add tunes to the game. The radio in the car will play songs from your hard drive. If a friend gets in and they also have the same MP3, the game will play that song for them. If not, it will search for a song by the same artist. If that still isn't found, it will pull one from your collection that is closest in ****

Now that you have all of the toys, as Jones put it, where do you play? RealTime Worlds are building "many cities" with "all different kinds of ****." A hundred people can exist in each city at once to play. We were shown an example of one guy playing looking out at a crowd of 60 friends cheering him on.

Then Jones began to talk about the gameplay and proceeded to drink Blizzard's milkshake. There is no leveling in APB. Jones called grinding a broken gameplay concept and went on to explain why using World of Warcraft as an example of repetitive, thoughtless gaming. "It's called a grind for a reason and we have to find a way around there," says Jones as he pointed to Counterstrike as an example of an online game with infinite replayability and no repetition. The strength comes from human interaction and having a unique experience every time.

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The difference between a new player and an experienced one.

The hook to APB then is not leveling your character up and increasing stats on a spreadsheet. Personalization drives characters, Jones believes, and so as you get good and progress in the game you look cooler. A starting player will have nothing more than jeans and a t-shirt and stand out as a chump. An experienced player, well let's just say the difference is completely obvious from the start.

To begin, you choose to play as either a member of law enforcement or a gang. Everything here is player driven -- you won't be running around taking quests and reading extended text stories from NPCs. To keep things from falling into anarchy, a few basic rules are in place. The enforcement side has law and order built into the rules. The gangs have to act like organized crime where permission to commit a crime must be obtained prior to the act. If you're playing as a gang, your job is to commit crimes and steal things. If you're playing as the enforcement, it's your job to stop them.

We were shown a video to demonstrate how the gameplay works. The gang, having decided upon a target of an armored car began moving into position. Without having committed a crime yet, the enforcement is oblivious. As soon as the gang commits the crime, an APB goes out.

Here is where APB is so clever. The servers automatically match a similarly skilled set of enforcement agents to deliver the APB to in a dynamic form of matchmaking. You'll never have a clue who you'll get matched up with. It's all done automatically based on stats.

After the APB was sent out to a clan of enforcement agents, we watched a chase scene unfold. Cop cars converged on the van. One gang member drove while two others hung out of the sides firing guns at the officers. A cop car tried to block off an alley at one point...another time one took a jump over a barrier to get closer to the criminals. The scene ended with the gang making it to the drop off point at the same time as the cops and a shootout began.

Since it is all driven by experience and skill, APB won't always match teams up with even numbers. We saw another example of four new criminals (in t-shirts and jeans) trying to steal a television. As soon as they smashed a car through the store window to get at it, an APB went out to a single enforcement agent. The new players feel like they have a chance since they have numbers while the experienced player can show his skills. This mission ended with the cop killing all four criminals with a rocket launcher.

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This guy was stealing a TV while a car chase from another crime sped by.

The idea is that some players will build up massive reputations in the game. Perhaps one player will be known as a criminal impossible to catch, and his appearance will tell the tale in a heartbeat. The trick, though, is that like Counterstrike each mission is unique. With real people on the other side, you can't ever be sure about the outcome.

Jones closed out his talk by talking about the future and the development of the APB community. The testers at RealTime Worlds loved the customization tools so much they wanted to act out their own movies. A camera was put in the game to export films and we were treated to one where players dressed up (one looked like Cloud) and acted out a scene from a turn-based RPG complete with confused emotes and damage numbers floating on screen.

"The launch is only the beginning," said Jones.

4 Gameplay Video's:

http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=2008082&type=game&sec=VIDEOS

Wow!:shock: Looks great.

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jangojay

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#2 jangojay
Member since 2007 • 4044 Posts
Soo players get to be police and crooks? That's kool
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DXGreat1_HGL

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#3 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts
What platform?
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fakecliche

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#4 fakecliche
Member since 2008 • 668 Posts

What platform?DXGreat1_HGL

I think 360/PC.

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#5 FrozenLiquid
Member since 2007 • 13555 Posts
So, which Game Of The Year awards will this one snag? 2009, 2010, 2011? Or how about all three? Seriously, that's totally ******* cool. Wow killer fo' sho' 8)
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PBSnipes

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#6 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts
It sounds awesome, but be and MMOs generally don't mix. I get all bloated and gassy.
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7thSIN

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#7 7thSIN
Member since 2002 • 1386 Posts
Its nice to see a couple new promising mmo's hit PC/X360.(Champions, APB)
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expanded

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#8 expanded
Member since 2003 • 8430 Posts
So, which Game Of The Year awards will this one snag? 2009, 2010, 2011? Or how about all three? Seriously, that's totally ******* cool. Wow killer fo' sho' 8)FrozenLiquid

this game has been in development for quiet sometime now.. :? i'd be surprised if it actually gets an 8.5+..
i'm hoping it does though.. the gameplay seems fun..
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FantasySports02

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#9 FantasySports02
Member since 2007 • 788 Posts
omg this looks so nice.. I bet it doesn't come till like 2011
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#10 FantasySports02
Member since 2007 • 788 Posts

Its nice to see a couple new promising mmo's hit PC/X360.(Champions, APB)7thSIN

don't forget about huxley

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PBSnipes

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#11 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts

[QUOTE="7thSIN"]Its nice to see a couple new promising mmo's hit PC/X360.(Champions, APB)FantasySports02

don't forget about huxley

Calling Huxley an MMO is generous. Its apparently more like Battlefield 2142 with a monthly fee now.
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DXGreat1_HGL

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#12 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts
Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...
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#13 vicscrape
Member since 2006 • 328 Posts
That is AWESOME!
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Taalon

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#15 Taalon
Member since 2006 • 3424 Posts
Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...DXGreat1_HGL


Too bad they're not exclusive...
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DXGreat1_HGL

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#16 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...Taalon


Too bad they're not exclusive...

That the best comeback you can come up with?

APB is Home with cops and robbers...

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fakecliche

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#17 fakecliche
Member since 2008 • 668 Posts

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...Taalon


Too bad they're not exclusive...

Oh noes! We only play exclusives. Gimme my Lair!:roll:

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Freddie9027361

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#18 Freddie9027361
Member since 2003 • 1746 Posts
Sounds good, but I get the feeling it's just gonna end up being a car chase game... and I hate driving games.
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fakecliche

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#19 fakecliche
Member since 2008 • 668 Posts

Sounds good, but I get the feeling it's just gonna end up being a car chase game... and I hate driving games.Freddie9027361

Of course. Steal the tv, blast a couple caps and stomp on the gas!

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Taalon

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#20 Taalon
Member since 2006 • 3424 Posts

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...DXGreat1_HGL



Too bad they're not exclusive...

That the best comeback you can come up with?

APB is Home with cops and robbers...



From your post I was given the idea that you believed these were exclusive to the 360...sorry if I came off sounding aggressive, but I've had experience with simpletons that think Bioshock was 360 exclusive.
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DXGreat1_HGL

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#21 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts

Sounds good, but I get the feeling it's just gonna end up being a car chase game... and I hate driving games.Freddie9027361

What would you expect to do if you were part of a gang and robbed an armorcar? Sprout wings and fly away?

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DXGreat1_HGL

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#22 DXGreat1_HGL
Member since 2003 • 7543 Posts
[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...Taalon



Too bad they're not exclusive...

That the best comeback you can come up with?

APB is Home with cops and robbers...



From your post I was given the idea that you believed these were exclusive to the 360...sorry if I came off sounding aggressive, but I've had experience with simpletons that think Bioshock was 360 exclusive.

I don't care as long as I get to play...

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jangojay

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#23 jangojay
Member since 2007 • 4044 Posts

To begin, you choose to play as either a member of law enforcement or a gang. Everything here is player driven -- you won't be running around taking quests and reading extended text stories from NPCs. To keep things from falling into anarchy, a few basic rules are in place. The enforcement side has law and order built into the rules. The gangs have to act like organized crime where permission to commit a crime must be obtained prior to the act. If you're playing as a gang, your job is to commit crimes and steal things. If you're playing as the enforcement, it's your job to stop them.

lol every MMO company always takes cheapshots at blizz.

Crap meant to post this one


Then Jones began to talk about the gameplay and proceeded to drink Blizzard's milkshake. There is no leveling in APB. Jones called grinding a broken gameplay concept and went on to explain why using World of Warcraft as an example of repetitive, thoughtless gaming. "It's called a grind for a reason and we have to find a way around there," says Jones as he pointed to Counterstrike as an example of an online game with infinite replayability and no repetition. The strength comes from human interaction and having a unique experience every time.

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Taalon

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#24 Taalon
Member since 2006 • 3424 Posts
[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...DXGreat1_HGL



Too bad they're not exclusive...

That the best comeback you can come up with?

APB is Home with cops and robbers...



From your post I was given the idea that you believed these were exclusive to the 360...sorry if I came off sounding aggressive, but I've had experience with simpletons that think Bioshock was 360 exclusive.

I don't care as long as I get to play...



I know, but it's not like they're sleeper hits just for the 360...I feel Left4Dead is going to do far better on PC, seeing as it's an FPS and for casuals it's completely unknown. Regardless, they look freaking sweet :)
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#25 zero9167
Member since 2005 • 14554 Posts

To begin, you choose to play as either a member of law enforcement or a gang. Everything here is player driven -- you won't be running around taking quests and reading extended text stories from NPCs. To keep things from falling into anarchy, a few basic rules are in place. The enforcement side has law and order built into the rules. The gangs have to act like organized crime where permission to commit a crime must be obtained prior to the act. If you're playing as a gang, your job is to commit crimes and steal things. If you're playing as the enforcement, it's your job to stop them.

lol every MMO company always takes cheapshots at blizz.

jangojay
No they dont. 90% of them try to blindly copy wow
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#26 jangojay
Member since 2007 • 4044 Posts
[QUOTE="jangojay"]

To begin, you choose to play as either a member of law enforcement or a gang. Everything here is player driven -- you won't be running around taking quests and reading extended text stories from NPCs. To keep things from falling into anarchy, a few basic rules are in place. The enforcement side has law and order built into the rules. The gangs have to act like organized crime where permission to commit a crime must be obtained prior to the act. If you're playing as a gang, your job is to commit crimes and steal things. If you're playing as the enforcement, it's your job to stop them.

lol every MMO company always takes cheapshots at blizz.

zero9167

No they dont. 90% of them try to blindly copy wow

Well considering most of them have age of conan crew for one... I'd say they do. Everytime an MMO maker makes a statement WoW always gets brought up negatively.. only people who haven't is warhammer but they look like a copy. They instead say they aren't trying to be the next WoW..just successful.

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#27 MrGrimFandango
Member since 2005 • 5286 Posts
[QUOTE="jangojay"]

To begin, you choose to play as either a member of law enforcement or a gang. Everything here is player driven -- you won't be running around taking quests and reading extended text stories from NPCs. To keep things from falling into anarchy, a few basic rules are in place. The enforcement side has law and order built into the rules. The gangs have to act like organized crime where permission to commit a crime must be obtained prior to the act. If you're playing as a gang, your job is to commit crimes and steal things. If you're playing as the enforcement, it's your job to stop them.

lol every MMO company always takes cheapshots at blizz.

zero9167

No they dont. 90% of them try to blindly copy wow

Aside from having nearly no depth and a significantly faster leveling rate than regular MMO, what has WoW not copied?

To the original poster: Bliz is just laughing all hte way to the bank.

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EmilioDigsIt

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#28 EmilioDigsIt
Member since 2005 • 4391 Posts
Man, I love Crackdown, and I'm sure I'll love this.

Unless... there's a monthly fee to it.
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#29 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts
Very interesting concept.
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#30 InsaneBasura
Member since 2005 • 12591 Posts

YAAAY!! MMORPGs **** off and die!!!How timely of me. David Jones basically reiterates my point, only in a nicer and better way. Also designed a game around the idea that MMORPGs suck. This game could be incredible.

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Zenkuso

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#31 Zenkuso
Member since 2006 • 4090 Posts
The community will make or break this title, hopefully it isnt fulled with the general population of these types of games and the monthly fee ward of the wannabe toss pots of curse at you till matchs are over. (play saints row online if your wondering wat im talking about) Overall it looks to be awesome.
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BioShockOwnz

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#32 BioShockOwnz
Member since 2006 • 52901 Posts

4 Gameplay Video's:

http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=2008082&type=game&sec=VIDEOS

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PS3_3DO

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#33 PS3_3DO
Member since 2006 • 10976 Posts

That looks very cool but I would rather have Crackdown 2. :D

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MasterC5

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#34 MasterC5
Member since 2006 • 2932 Posts
Thisa might be an mmo that could hold my interest I am rather sick of all the point and click mmorpgs
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E M I N 3 M

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#35 E M I N 3 M
Member since 2002 • 2615 Posts
In SW, all people care about is that a game isn't going to the opposing players side. Therefore, this is a score for X360...Like it or not "hermits". :P
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#36 BioShockOwnz
Member since 2006 • 52901 Posts

1UP Preview:
Realtime Worlds just showed the biggest surprise of GDC.

By Scott Sharkey 02/21/2008

David Jones of Realtime Worlds, the guy behind Lemmings and Crackdown, opened a panel at the Game Developers Conference today by joking that after looking back at the last couple GDCs, Will Wright and Spore would be a tough act to top. It wasn't as funny to me then as it is now, because for me at least, that's exactly what he went on to do.

APB looks like the simultaneous appeasement of every wish/complaints list I've written over the years about both MMOs and open world games. It's a game that's combining both of those genres and stripping each of many of their respective annoyances. All I've ever wanted from an MMORPG is a place to be an individual and have a sense of accomplishment without wasting hundreds of hours doing nothing more interesting than killing the same boar a thousand times. And the central element of a great open world game has always been a big space full of interesting things to do with a great big pile of toys.

For the first time in recent memory I'm actually having difficulty containing my excitement enough to convey it properly. A short, instantly attention getting phrase like "MMO Crackdown" doesn't begin to do the thing justice. It looks far, far better than that. This isn't an MMORPG, and it's much more than another sandbox game. Dave Jones simply called it a "Multiplayer Online Game," which is a bit nonspecific, but at least isn't loaded with preconceptions. This bears the look of something very new..

First, there's the character editor, which doesn't just rival the celebrated detail of say, City of Heroes. It surpasses it by an order of magnitude. Beyond just a paper doll system with a couple dozen faces, hairdos, and skin shades, every single facial characteristic is modifiable with a couple pulls of the mouse and without any mucking around with sliders. More importantly, detailed decals can be constructed in an in-game editor and applied anywhere either as a tattoo or on clothing -- not just in a few preselected areas, but anywhere at all, with any desired scaling or rotation of the graphic. It's essentially the Forza car editor, except for people. Almost incidentally, there's also a car editor, which is more directly comparable.

To underscore the versatility of the thing, Jones showed off recreations of Warren Spector, Richard Garriott, Peter Molyneux, and an absolutely terrifyingly accurate recreation of Shigeru Miyamoto -- wearing Mario-print boxers. I can't even begin to imagine what people are going to do with this character generator.

To even further personalize things, APB will be incorporating LastFM for its radio. If someone's driving around listening to a song and you have that same mp3 on your drive, you'll hear it play locally. And if you don't, it'll check and see if you have any songs on that album, from that artist, or in that genre of music and play that instead. It simultaneously solves the issues of the massive bandwidth that'd be required to stream music between players and the copyright issues that would involve.

But more important than any of this, there isn't going to be a level grind, you won't be fighting NPCs or looting a pair of pants to raise your intelligence or whatever -- so where's the hook? What other games do people willingly play for hundreds of hours with no carrot at the end?

Jones' answer: "Counter Strike is the best multiplayer online game ever." APB's gameplay, however, isn't a recreation of CS's. The running, gunning and driving looks much more like a less superpowered Crackdown, but it's incorporating the multiplayer mechanics of CS. Players work together, with match-ups made between cops and robbers whenever the bad guys commit a crime. Before that point, players are free to roam the city and horse around without being messed with, but when a gang does something wrong an APB gets sent through an automatic matching system to an enforcer squad of players of comparable size or skill -- either an even number of equally matched players, or fewer more experienced players against a larger number of newbies. It's a form of consensual violence that will hopefully solve the issue of how to have a bunch of people running around a city together without it instantly descending into total anarchy.

The most striking gameplay example featured involved a gang of four minimally armed t-shirt wearing newbs, who upon robbing a shop were faced with a Shaft-like character with six months of experience and the custom character options to go with them. It'd be an interesting match for both sides, with either winning side earning bragging rights for either overcoming superior numbers or an individual with superior firepower.

Shaft won, by the way. He had a rocket launcher. I need to find something to drink so I can stop shaking.

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Forza_2

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#37 Forza_2
Member since 2007 • 3083 Posts

Jesus... The character creation is just too awesome ! (Watch the video)

I will try this game when it comes out.

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whocares4peace

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#38 whocares4peace
Member since 2005 • 4971 Posts

This looks awseome, but to be honest.....

I'd rather have a Crackdown 2.

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Forza_2

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#39 Forza_2
Member since 2007 • 3083 Posts
This game uses UE3. It better not have pop-up issues...
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fakecliche

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#40 fakecliche
Member since 2008 • 668 Posts

This game uses UE3. It better not have pop-up issues...Forza_2

Really? It looks like the Crackdown engine in the gameplay vids...

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Forza_2

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#41 Forza_2
Member since 2007 • 3083 Posts
Really? It looks like the Crackdown engine in the gameplay vids...fakecliche
It's on their website. They also plain for a 2008 release.
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p3anut

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#42 p3anut
Member since 2005 • 6636 Posts

lol at miyamoto. :lol:

The game looks really cool. You can do alot for creating your player.

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MasterC5

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#43 MasterC5
Member since 2006 • 2932 Posts

lol at miyamoto. :lol:

The game looks really cool. You can do alot for creating your player.

p3anut
Its scary at how well he was rendered, I dont want to see Richard Garriot that would be plain creepy:|
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karena

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#44 karena
Member since 2003 • 177 Posts
[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...Taalon



Too bad they're not exclusive...

That the best comeback you can come up with?

APB is Home with cops and robbers...



From your post I was given the idea that you believed these were exclusive to the 360...sorry if I came off sounding aggressive, but I've had experience with simpletons that think Bioshock was 360 exclusive.

I've had experience with people that think UT3 was a PS3 exclusive.
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EmilioDigsIt

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#45 EmilioDigsIt
Member since 2005 • 4391 Posts
Thanks for linking those videos... yow this looks great.
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#46 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45609 Posts

Yup, this is awesome as it looks like a MMO Crackdown and wow if they pull this off right - Big, big story here.

Crackdown is the most underrated game this gen.

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dru26

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#47 dru26
Member since 2005 • 5505 Posts
[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

[QUOTE="Taalon"][QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"] Between this and Left4Dead, 360 has 2 potential sleepers...Taalon



Too bad they're not exclusive...

That the best comeback you can come up with?

APB is Home with cops and robbers...



From your post I was given the idea that you believed these were exclusive to the 360...sorry if I came off sounding aggressive, but I've had experience with simpletons that think Bioshock was 360 exclusive.

Bioshock certainly didn't make the ps3 and Wii any more appealing.
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Dr_Drooom

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#48 Dr_Drooom
Member since 2004 • 12640 Posts

MS needs to let off and give Sony a chance in 2008.

I wonder what they are saving for E3 and TGS?

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sexy_chimp

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#49 sexy_chimp
Member since 2007 • 6457 Posts
Crackdown - Super powers + MMO = This
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tikki25x

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#50 tikki25x
Member since 2003 • 1546 Posts

i had completely forgotten this game. it looks pretty good, im pleasently surprised. i hope they dont have a subsription fee or at least make it less then 10$ a month.