Are casuals a theat to the industry? a good article!

http://gonintendo.com/?p=19201

discuss 

Without casuals, gaming would be dead.Sonick54

Confucius? 

[QUOTE="Sonick54"]Without casuals, gaming would be dead.shungokustasu

Confucius?

Bless you? :P 

How can casual be a threat to the industry if they are expanding it. Hir0_N

What happens when the only games developers made were half *** games? The gamers die out. By the way I like to think of the people that would not normally play games as nongames not casuals. To me casuals are the ones that have a PS2. I have no problem with the casuals.

[QUOTE="Hir0_N"]How can casual be a threat to the industry if they are expanding it. squirrel337

What happens when the only games developers made were half *** games? The gamers die out. By the way I like to think of the people that would not normally play games as nongames not casuals. To me casuals are the ones that have a PS2. I have no problem with the casuals.

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

[QUOTE="Hir0_N"]How can casual be a threat to the industry if they are expanding it. squirrel337

What happens when the only games developers made were half *** games? The gamers die out. By the way I like to think of the people that would not normally play games as nongames not casuals. To me casuals are the ones that have a PS2. I have no problem with the casuals.

That's what's you think. Not everyone thinks like you.

http://boards.ign.com/Message.aspx?topic=143364317&brd=8270&start=143387964

As for his blog post, it's pure bunk. His biggest oversight is that assumes the market will become saturated with casual games. I once predicted that as well, and it may happen, but it will not be permanent. The DS has already proven the developers will eventually even out the market by producing "hardcore" games, and we're only two years into the DS' life span. The second issue I have is his adolescent selfishness about video games and his prejudices towards non-gamers. Referring to the video game industry as "my hobby" shows the possessive, insulated, immature, geek culture that many hardcore gamers share. Why it would bother him that other people find enjoyment in video games is beyond me. He doesn't seem to understand that video games are entertainment medium, and that other people are entertained by different things.

Hes only getting attention for being Cliffys bro. I doubt any of us would care if he had established his gaming position on his own merit. He probably wouldnt have too...Really thats the only reason why any of us should read a sentence at most. Hes riding off his cooler much more successful brother and now using it as a platform to whine and complain about a system he doesn't like. Sounds like a fanboy to me..

If you notice almost every fanboy says something along the lines of "When I was little I played my Nintendo all the time" OK, what else would you play? Cmon...People can change and obviously his lame bro has changed into a Nintendo hating attention whore monger.

I too have my doubts about Nintendo but the route they have taken won't hurt anyone. Can you blame Nintendo for trying its "Blue Ocean" strategy and it actually being successful? If other Game developers are imitating Nintendos success that is barely Nintendos fault. Thats how you can tell if one is a fanboy when they say Nintendo can ruin the gaming industry. One lone company cant do that. Can you really tell Nintendo to stop being successfull and go back to 3rd place? lol.... That older grandma isnt taking away sales or taking away gaming possibilities. Just adding to it all. You still have your MGS4's your DMC4s your Kane and Lynch, Assassins creed and so forth. This Gen is the best by far and Nintendo is only adding to the amazing experience.

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="Hir0_N"]How can casual be a threat to the industry if they are expanding it. mattbbpl

What happens when the only games developers made were half *** games? The gamers die out. By the way I like to think of the people that would not normally play games as nongames not casuals. To me casuals are the ones that have a PS2. I have no problem with the casuals.

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

Just like red steel and prince of persia? 

Casuals are the industry.swamprat_basic

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii. 

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

squirrel337

Just like red steel and prince of persia?

As for his blog post, it's pure bunk. His biggest oversight is that assumes the market will become saturated with casual games. I once predicted that as well, and it may happen, but it will not be permanent. The DS has already proven the developers will eventually even out the market by producing "hardcore" games, and we're only two years into the DS' life span. The second issue I have is his adolescent selfishness about video games and his prejudices towards non-gamers. Referring to the video game industry as "my hobby" shows the possessive, insulated, immature, geek culture that many hardcore gamers share. Why it would bother him that other people find enjoyment in video games is beyond me. He doesn't seem to understand that video games are entertainment medium, and that other people are entertained by different things.

There are very few third party titles on the Wii right now because developers were caught off guard. The more titles that arrive, the more differentiation will have to occur, the more quality titles will emerge. This is an inescapable fact of business - competition breeds quality.

[QUOTE="Hir0_N"]How can casual be a threat to the industry if they are expanding it. squirrel337

What happens when the only games developers made were half *** games? The gamers die out. By the way I like to think of the people that would not normally play games as nongames not casuals. To me casuals are the ones that have a PS2. I have no problem with the casuals.

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.squirrel337

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Since when do you define one or the other?

From your last post, YOU think casuals are the ones who bought a ps2.

Wanna know what I think? I think casuals are the same people who bought the ps2 that are abuying the wii. 

[QUOTE="squirrel337"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

mattbbpl

Just like red steel and prince of persia?

As for his blog post, it's pure bunk. His biggest oversight is that assumes the market will become saturated with casual games. I once predicted that as well, and it may happen, but it will not be permanent. The DS has already proven the developers will eventually even out the market by producing "hardcore" games, and we're only two years into the DS' life span. The second issue I have is his adolescent selfishness about video games and his prejudices towards non-gamers. Referring to the video game industry as "my hobby" shows the possessive, insulated, immature, geek culture that many hardcore gamers share. Why it would bother him that other people find enjoyment in video games is beyond me. He doesn't seem to understand that video games are entertainment medium, and that other people are entertained by different things.

There are very few third party titles on the Wii right now because developers were caught off guard. The more titles that arrive, the more differentiation will have to occur, the more quality titles will emerge. This is an inescapable fact of business - competition breeds quality.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="squirrel337"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

squirrel337

Just like red steel and prince of persia?

As for his blog post, it's pure bunk. His biggest oversight is that assumes the market will become saturated with casual games. I once predicted that as well, and it may happen, but it will not be permanent. The DS has already proven the developers will eventually even out the market by producing "hardcore" games, and we're only two years into the DS' life span. The second issue I have is his adolescent selfishness about video games and his prejudices towards non-gamers. Referring to the video game industry as "my hobby" shows the possessive, insulated, immature, geek culture that many hardcore gamers share. Why it would bother him that other people find enjoyment in video games is beyond me. He doesn't seem to understand that video games are entertainment medium, and that other people are entertained by different things.

There are very few third party titles on the Wii right now because developers were caught off guard. The more titles that arrive, the more differentiation will have to occur, the more quality titles will emerge. This is an inescapable fact of business - competition breeds quality.

As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.

Too bad i can think of some. Funny how opinions work, huh? 

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.squirrel337

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Nongamers are essentially casuals. DUH! 

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.Japanese_Monk

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Nongamers are essentially casuals. DUH!

Not from what HE thinks. Remember, he knows everything! 

Without casuals, gaming would be dead.Sonick54

I mean.....ps2 and ps1 got all of it's sales on hardcore gamers alone?.....Lets get realistic. 

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.Japanese_Monk

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Nongamers are essentially casuals. DUH!

Haha, at least they become them once they buy and play a game! ;) 

As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.squirrel337

I don't know many DS games (not into handhelds) but it's getting a Ninja Gaiden game. You can't tell me Ninja Gaiden games aren't intended for the hardcore audience. 

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="squirrel337"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

squirrel337

Just like red steel and prince of persia?

As for his blog post, it's pure bunk. His biggest oversight is that assumes the market will become saturated with casual games. I once predicted that as well, and it may happen, but it will not be permanent. The DS has already proven the developers will eventually even out the market by producing "hardcore" games, and we're only two years into the DS' life span. The second issue I have is his adolescent selfishness about video games and his prejudices towards non-gamers. Referring to the video game industry as "my hobby" shows the possessive, insulated, immature, geek culture that many hardcore gamers share. Why it would bother him that other people find enjoyment in video games is beyond me. He doesn't seem to understand that video games are entertainment medium, and that other people are entertained by different things.

There are very few third party titles on the Wii right now because developers were caught off guard. The more titles that arrive, the more differentiation will have to occur, the more quality titles will emerge. This is an inescapable fact of business - competition breeds quality.

As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.

Brothers in Arms

Phantom Hourglass

Ninja Gaiden

NSMB (arguably)

Assassins Creed

Castlevania

Metroid Prime 

Advance Wars

 Castlevania POR

Dragon Quest Heores

Lunar Nights

Age of Empires

Children of Mana

Nanostray

Final Fantasy CC

Final Fantasy A2

Final Fantasy XI

Phoenix Wright (not many casuals play that)

ANyway I could keep going.... 

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.Sonick54

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Since when do you define one or the other?

From your last post, YOU think casuals are the ones who bought a ps2.

Wanna know what I think? I think casuals are the same people who bought the ps2 that are abuying the wii.

I think casuals are buying the wii too. I also think that the wii is bringing in new people(non-gamers). People that don't even think of gaming as a hobby but rather just something new and hip. I love gaming, it's my only hobby. It's something I just could not live without. I don't like casual games. I am fine with the ones that came out before the wii. But now it seems like there are more casual games. Not just more of them but ****er ones too. Well that is it. I have nothing else to say. Please try to understand I don't hate on any one I just don't want to see my Half Lifes, Halos, GTAs and UTs become a thing of the past.

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.Japanese_Monk

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Nongamers are essentially casuals. DUH!

I see casuals are people that like gaming but are not hardcore. I see nongamers as people that do not love games and people that for the most part do not understand the gaming culture.

[QUOTE="Japanese_Monk"][QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.Sonick54

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Nongamers are essentially casuals. DUH!

Not from what HE thinks. Remember, he knows everything!

I never said that and by the way you are being an ***. 

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.mattbbpl

I don't know many DS games (not into handhelds) but it's getting a Ninja Gaiden game. You can't tell me Ninja Gaiden games aren't intended for the hardcore audience.

But you are not in control of Ryu Hayabusa.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.squirrel337

I don't know many DS games (not into handhelds) but it's getting a Ninja Gaiden game. You can't tell me Ninja Gaiden games aren't intended for the hardcore audience.

But you are not in control of Ryu Hayabusa.

I don't know enough about the game to confirm or deny. Either way, you can rest assured that the hardcore games will neither decrease in quality nor quantity. The laws of business say it won't happen. 

Ah I love reading all those upset sheep in the reply section.

Typical sheep. "Nintendo is awesome..shut up..it sells, blah blah blah."

[QUOTE="squirrel337"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="squirrel337"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

That's a bogus argument. The more devs that jump on the Wii bandwagon, the more they will have to differentiate their products from the others to get consumer's attention. This drives up quality and diversity.

Japanese_Monk

Just like red steel and prince of persia?

As for his blog post, it's pure bunk. His biggest oversight is that assumes the market will become saturated with casual games. I once predicted that as well, and it may happen, but it will not be permanent. The DS has already proven the developers will eventually even out the market by producing "hardcore" games, and we're only two years into the DS' life span. The second issue I have is his adolescent selfishness about video games and his prejudices towards non-gamers. Referring to the video game industry as "my hobby" shows the possessive, insulated, immature, geek culture that many hardcore gamers share. Why it would bother him that other people find enjoyment in video games is beyond me. He doesn't seem to understand that video games are entertainment medium, and that other people are entertained by different things.

There are very few third party titles on the Wii right now because developers were caught off guard. The more titles that arrive, the more differentiation will have to occur, the more quality titles will emerge. This is an inescapable fact of business - competition breeds quality.

As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.

Brothers in Arms

Phantom Hourglass

Ninja Gaiden

NSMB (arguably)

Assassins Creed

Castlevania

Metroid Prime

Advance Wars

Castlevania POR

Dragon Quest Heores

Lunar Nights

Age of Empires

Children of Mana

Nanostray

Final Fantasy CC

Final Fantasy A2

Final Fantasy XI

Phoenix Wright (not many casuals play that)

ANyway I could keep going....

Okay that sounds like a good list. You are right. I never really checked out handhelds before.

[QUOTE="Sonick54"][QUOTE="squirrel337"]

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]Casuals are the industry.squirrel337

Yes but nongamers are not and those are the ones nintendo is pulling in with the wii.

Since when do you define one or the other?

From your last post, YOU think casuals are the ones who bought a ps2.

Wanna know what I think? I think casuals are the same people who bought the ps2 that are abuying the wii.

I think casuals are buying the wii too. I also think that the wii is bringing in new people(non-gamers). People that don't even think of gaming as a hobby but rather just something new and hip. I love gaming, it's my only hobby. It's something I just could not live without. I don't like casual games. I am fine with the ones that came out before the wii. But now it seems like there are more casual games. Not just more of them but ****er ones too. Well that is it. I have nothing else to say. Please try to understand I don't hate on any one I just don't want to see my Half Lifes, Halos, GTAs and UTs become a thing of the past.

Ah I love reading all those upset sheep in the reply section.

Typical sheep. "Nintendo is awesome..shut up..it sells, blah blah blah."

Bread_or_Decide

Ah I love reading all those upset sheep in the reply section.

Typical sheep. "Nintendo is awesome..shut up..it sells, blah blah blah."

 

Bread_or_Decide

Just using the same logic cows did last gen :D

[QUOTE="squirrel337"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"]

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]As of right now I can't think of one hardcore game on the DS.mattbbpl

I don't know many DS games (not into handhelds) but it's getting a Ninja Gaiden game. You can't tell me Ninja Gaiden games aren't intended for the hardcore audience.

But you are not in control of Ryu Hayabusa.

I don't know enough about the game to confirm or deny. Either way, you can rest assured that the hardcore games will neither decrease in quality nor quantity. The laws of business say it won't happen.

But what happens when there is more money in casuals then there is in hardcore. Would the laws of business say that developers would switch to more casual games.(that is just my guess i know nothing about the laws od business)

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]

Ah I love reading all those upset sheep in the reply section.

Typical sheep. "Nintendo is awesome..shut up..it sells, blah blah blah."

 

Sonick54

Just using the same logic cows did last gen :D

I don't remember the PS2 being an underpowered console full of minigames and non-games.

[QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]

Ah I love reading all those upset sheep in the reply section.

Typical sheep. "Nintendo is awesome..shut up..it sells, blah blah blah."

 

Zhengi

Your one of them too. "NINTENDO WE LUV TEH WAGGLE TIS INNOVATION"

haha. Sheep on sheep.

Sheep on.

But what happens when there is more money in casuals then there is in hardcore. Would the laws of business say that developers would switch to more casual games.(that is just my guess i know nothing about the laws od business)

squirrel337

Nope. The laws of business state that the Wii is seeing a quick cash in now. This is because  of 1)Developers were caught off guard so there are very few titles in the Wii. This means a lot of bad games will sell pretty well since there is no competition among titles. and 2)Nintendo has widened their audience to include gamers who are just getting their feet wet and will buy the more causal games.

However, as these games become more and more prevalent, it will be harder for developers to make money off of them because the market will be saturated and the competition will be more fierce. Then they'll turn to the more hardcore audience because it's there's more profit to be had in the sector (since there is less competition there at that point). 

 Eventuall, these two sectors will even out and developers will cater to both of them until demand is filled.

 Such are the laws of business ;)

[QUOTE="Zhengi"][QUOTE="Bread_or_Decide"]

Ah I love reading all those upset sheep in the reply section.

Typical sheep. "Nintendo is awesome..shut up..it sells, blah blah blah."

Bread_or_Decide

Your one of them too. "NINTENDO WE LUV TEH WAGGLE TIS INNOVATION"

haha. Sheep on sheep.

Sheep on.

[QUOTE="squirrel337"]

But what happens when there is more money in casuals then there is in hardcore. Would the laws of business say that developers would switch to more casual games.(that is just my guess i know nothing about the laws od business)

mattbbpl

Nope. The laws of business state that the Wii is seeing a quick cash in now. This is because of 1)Developers were caught off guard so there are very few titles in the Wii. This means a lot of bad games will sell pretty well since there is no competition among titles. and 2)Nintendo has widened their audience to include gamers who are just getting their feet wet and will buy the more causal games.

However, as these games become more and more prevalent, it will be harder for developers to make money off of them because the market will be saturated and the competition will be more fierce. Then they'll turn to the more hardcore audience because it's there's more profit to be had in the sector (since there is less competition there at that point).

Eventuall, these two sectors will even out and developers will cater to both of them until demand is filled.

Such are the laws of business ;)

So you are saying that it is like a pendulum swinging back and forth. At one point there will be and equal number of casual and hardcoer games. I can see that happening. That actually sounds nice everyone being happy and all. BTY your avatar is the coolest I have seen on SW.

No, they arent a "threat" but it could lead to less hardcore oriented games, which most of us play.XaosII

My sentiments exactly.

So you are saying that it is like a pendulum swinging back and forth. At one point there will be and equal number of casual and hardcoer games. I can see that happening. That actually sounds nice everyone being happy and all. BTY your avatar is the coolest I have seen on SW.

squirrel337

Precisely.

Oh, and thanks :)