Big Brother is watching us, Microsoft and Sony's EULA

Taken from the Sony EULA:

However, we reserve the right in our sole discretion to monitor and record your online activity and communication throughout PSN and to remove any content from PSN at our sole discretion, without further notice to you. Any data collected in this way, including the content of your voice and text communications, the time and location of your activities, and your Online ID and IP address, may be used by us to enforce the PSN Terms of Service and passed to the police or other appropriate authorities.Sony EULA

The same can be found in the MS EULA.

Thoughts and opinions? Is this acceptable in light of the patriot act? How about for the rest of the world? Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it if I owned a PS3. I'm sure things are handled with the greatest of discretion. However I can perfectly understand that some people don't like the idea.

Seems to me like they might be doing this to crack down on the possibilities of pedophiles before the launch of HOME. I mean it's essentially the same thing as letting children walk into a chat room and talking to adults. The more I keep reading about it, the more I think that is what it's about.

They are just trying to cover their arse because of LBP, incase child porn or something to that effect shows up in the game.POJO_MOFO

Oh my..you better think twice before you make a huge moving penis level now.

they can do whatever they want as long as they tell us that they're doing it. Which they just did.

DireToad

The problem with that is, who the hell reads the EULA? I know it's the consumers own responibility, but be honest. What percentage of the PSN users knows this you think?

Taken from the Sony EULA:

[quote="Sony EULA"]However, we reserve the right in our sole discretion to monitor and record your online activity and communication throughout PSN and to remove any content from PSN at our sole discretion, without further notice to you. Any data collected in this way, including the content of your voice and text communications, the time and location of your activities, and your Online ID and IP address, may be used by us to enforce the PSN Terms of Service and passed to the police or other appropriate authorities.Arsuz

Thoughts and opinions? Is this acceptable in light of the patriot act? How about for the rest of the world? Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it if I owned a PS3. I'm sure things are handled with the greatest of discretion. However I can perfectly understand that some people don't like the idea.

For your information, the patriot act isn't global, and Sony is a japanese company. They're in their full right to monitor and store all information about you. That said, with Sony's past, i would be carefull not to use the web browser for anything too specific.

From xbox live's user agreement:

"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features of the Service. These communications may be monitored; however, we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so. You understand that these communications can be recorded and used by others."

"However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your messages and may disclose information about you, including contents of messages, if we deem it necessary to: (1) conform to legal requirements or respond to legal process, (2) ensure your compliance with this contract, or (3) protect the rights, property, or interests of Microsoft, its employees, its customers or the public."

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Taken from the Sony EULA:

[quote="Sony EULA"]However, we reserve the right in our sole discretion to monitor and record your online activity and communication throughout PSN and to remove any content from PSN at our sole discretion, without further notice to you. Any data collected in this way, including the content of your voice and text communications, the time and location of your activities, and your Online ID and IP address, may be used by us to enforce the PSN Terms of Service and passed to the police or other appropriate authorities.Arsuz

Thoughts and opinions? Is this acceptable in light of the patriot act? How about for the rest of the world? Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it if I owned a PS3. I'm sure things are handled with the greatest of discretion. However I can perfectly understand that some people don't like the idea.

I could have sworn MS does the exact same thing if you play on Live. Of course I'm assuming you are a lem based on your sig.

That said, with Sony's past, i would be carefull not to use the web browser for anything too specific. stappy

From xbox live's user agreement:

"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features of the Service. These communications may be monitored; however, we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so. You understand that these communications can be recorded and used by others."

"However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your messages and may disclose information about you, including contents of messages, if we deem it necessary to: (1) conform to legal requirements or respond to legal process, (2) ensure your compliance with this contract, or (3) protect the rights, property, or interests of Microsoft, its employees, its customers or the public."

DarkCloud79

So micrisoft also has it. I'm a bit surprised there wasn't an uproar because of this. I personally wouldn't give a rat's ass, but I know the privacy/security debate is a fierce one, here in Europe anyway. Don't know about the US.

From xbox live's user agreement:

"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features of the Service. These communications may be monitored; however, we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so. You understand that these communications can be recorded and used by others."

"However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your messages and may disclose information about you, including contents of messages, if we deem it necessary to: (1) conform to legal requirements or respond to legal process, (2) ensure your compliance with this contract, or (3) protect the rights, property, or interests of Microsoft, its employees, its customers or the public."

DarkCloud79

Microsoft does not store your IP though. If someone got a hold of your IP, they'd be able to cause quite abit of damage. And they only monitor your messages, not everything you do on LIVE. Sony does that, though.

I could have sworn MS does the exact same thing if you play on Live. Of course I'm assuming you are a lem based on your sig.

darthogre

I don't own an XBOX360, but I added it to the topic title.

lol Who cares... It's a game console, what could you possibly be doing? If this was on the PC I'd be a little freaked tho.Eddie-Vedder

What you do on a PC is heavily monitored as well. Its not hard for an ISP to track your IP and report what you are doing. They do keep detailed records of you at all times.

I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.Floppy_Jim

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

[QUOTE="DarkCloud79"]

From xbox live's user agreement:

"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features of the Service. These communications may be monitored; however, we cannot monitor the entire Service and make no attempt to do so. You understand that these communications can be recorded and used by others."

"However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your messages and may disclose information about you, including contents of messages, if we deem it necessary to: (1) conform to legal requirements or respond to legal process, (2) ensure your compliance with this contract, or (3) protect the rights, property, or interests of Microsoft, its employees, its customers or the public."

stappy

Microsoft does not store your IP though. If someone got a hold of your IP, they'd be able to cause quite abit of damage. And they only monitor your messages, not everything you do on LIVE. Sony does that, though.

They store IP's for cheating and for advertisement purposes, why wouldn't they for reporting offensive behavior?

And what else would tey monitor? They can monitor the messages and voice chats, they use the gamertag for study purposes, what welse is there.

The agreements are pretty much the same for both services.

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.SpruceCaboose

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

You hereby authorise us to provide such content, services or software and agree that, to the extent permitted by applicable law, we are not liable for any loss of data, content, function or utility.Sony EULA

[QUOTE="Sony EULA"]You hereby authorise us to provide such content, services or software and agree that, to the extent permitted by applicable law, we are not liable for any loss of data, content, function or utility.Arsuz

Seriously? Even though i only own a PSP, it pisses me off. That's like saying, "If we screw up, it's your own fault for trusting us"

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.SpruceCaboose

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

Look under number 11-

http://www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreements/15

From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that PSN and content offered through PSN, your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into PSN. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data located on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.Floppy_Jim

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

Look under number 11-

http://www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreements/15

From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that PSN and content offered through PSN, your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into PSN. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data located on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.

Oh that is so weak. Sony better believe I will be *politely discussing* this with them if it ever bricks my system.

Microsoft and Sony have every right to have a terms of service agreement for XBL and PSN . Plus Sony had to build in some things to deal with LBP 's user content .

Taken from the Sony EULA:

[quote="Sony EULA"]However, we reserve the right in our sole discretion to monitor and record your online activity and communication throughout PSN and to remove any content from PSN at our sole discretion, without further notice to you. Any data collected in this way, including the content of your voice and text communications, the time and location of your activities, and your Online ID and IP address, may be used by us to enforce the PSN Terms of Service and passed to the police or other appropriate authorities.Arsuz

The same can be found in the MS EULA.

Thoughts and opinions? Is this acceptable in light of the patriot act? How about for the rest of the world? Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it if I owned a PS3. I'm sure things are handled with the greatest of discretion. However I can perfectly understand that some people don't like the idea.

You wanna talk to your gf over psn or something??

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.SpruceCaboose

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

Look under number 11-

http://www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreements/15

From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that PSN and content offered through PSN, your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into PSN. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data located on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.

Oh that is so weak. Sony better believe I will be *politely discussing* this with them if it ever bricks my system.

I know, it's disgraceful. But after the 2.40 update bricked a lot of consoels, I think Sony offered to fix them for free. So I wonder why they would go back on that.

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.SpruceCaboose

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

I have read that before too, it says so before every firmware update if I'm not mistaken. :?

I know, it's disgraceful. But after the 2.40 update bricked a lot of consoels, I think Sony offered to fix them for free. So I wonder why they would go back on that. Floppy_Jim

I dont know, but I really dodged a bullet on that one. I usually wait a day or two to update my consoles to avoid that type of stuff, but I was so excited for 2.40 I snatched it as quick as I could.

I got lucky.

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I know, it's disgraceful. But after the 2.40 update bricked a lot of consoels, I think Sony offered to fix them for free. So I wonder why they would go back on that. carljohnson3456

I dont know, but I really dodged a bullet on that one. I usually wait a day or two to update my consoles to avoid that type of stuff, but I was so excited for 2.40 I snatched it as quick as I could.

I got lucky.

After reading this agreement, I'm going start doing that now. After 3 RROD's I'm determined never to have a console break on me again.

The term Big Brother means government.DragonFlyJ

My good man, I know very well what big brother means. It's the name of a fictional dictator in the book "1984", written by George Orwell to depict the frightening possibility of a totalitarian regime. However, in normal day life it's a term often used for someone who is following your every move. For example the real life soap "Big Brother".

In order to use XBL or PSN you have to agree to them

Seems to me like they might be doing this to crack down on the possibilities of pedophiles before the launch of HOME. I mean it's essentially the same thing as letting children walk into a chat room and talking to adults. The more I keep reading about it, the more I think that is what it's about.

carljohnson3456

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]lol Who cares... It's a game console, what could you possibly be doing? If this was on the PC I'd be a little freaked tho.SpruceCaboose

What you do on a PC is heavily monitored as well. Its not hard for an ISP to track your IP and report what you are doing. They do keep detailed records of you at all times.

It's not the same thing. They don't monitor or logg any messages you've sent. They only monitor what connections you've made.
In Sweden is this specified as personal information. They aren't allowed to give it away to anyone except the police and that for a real good reason.

[QUOTE="Arsuz"]

Taken from the Sony EULA:

[quote="Sony EULA"]However, we reserve the right in our sole discretion to monitor and record your online activity and communication throughout PSN and to remove any content from PSN at our sole discretion, without further notice to you. Any data collected in this way, including the content of your voice and text communications, the time and location of your activities, and your Online ID and IP address, may be used by us to enforce the PSN Terms of Service and passed to the police or other appropriate authorities.stappy

Thoughts and opinions? Is this acceptable in light of the patriot act? How about for the rest of the world? Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it if I owned a PS3. I'm sure things are handled with the greatest of discretion. However I can perfectly understand that some people don't like the idea.

For your information, the patriot act isn't global, and Sony is a japanese company. They're in their full right to monitor and store all information about you. That said, with Sony's past, i would be carefull not to use the web browser for anything too specific.

dam i was about to use my PS3 web browser to search for "how to build weapons of mass destruction" ... o well :roll: :P

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]I think that agreement also states that Sony are no longer held responsible if a firmware update kills your PS3. Which is BS if you ask me.SpruceCaboose

That bit of info would make me very mad. Do you have where it says that?

Look under number 11-

http://www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreements/15

From time to time, it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain content to you to ensure that PSN and content offered through PSN, your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system or other SCEA-authorized hardware is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Some content may be provided automatically without notice when you sign into PSN. Such content may include automatic updates or upgrades which may change your current operating system, cause a loss of data or content or cause a loss of functionalities or utilities. Such upgrades or updates may be provided for system software for your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system, the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system, or other SCEA-authorized hardware. Access or use to any system software is subject to terms and conditions of a separate end user license agreement found at http://www.us.playstation.com/termsofuse. You authorize SCEA to provide such content and agree that SCEA shall not be liable for any damages arising from provision of such content or maintenance services. It is recommended that you regularly back up any data located on the hard disk that is of a type that can be backed up.

Oh that is so weak. Sony better believe I will be *politely discussing* this with them if it ever bricks my system.

Says nothing about bricking your system. It specifically says the loss of data or content. A bricked PS3 is also cover with a warranty.I saved you phone call.