Can we really dismiss the GI Article's 360 failure rate due to "fanboyism&q
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1. How come Microsoft hasn't provided any actual numbers/percentages from their own data? It would seem to me that if the number was blown way out of proportion then the easiest possible solution would be to provide actual numbers. People can argue all day long on whether or not they want to believe MSes numbers, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. The Fat Lady sings and everyone goes home. 2. The PS3 and Wii's numbers are equally likely to be the victim of "fanboyism." In an egalitarian sense, all the numbers could have been blown out of proportion, but the 360's were 5 times more prone to this behaviour inexplicably? That makes even less sense than the assertion that the 360 could be %50+ faulty. 3. Game Informer, one would assume, polled American gamers. America is the 360's strongest market and enjoys some comfortable amount of domination over, at least, the Playstation 3. Wii owners, being far more prolific and less inclined for HD gaming, have little to no vested interest in smattering the 360 out of the blue. So, in order to pass the numbers off as some gross mechanization of fanboyism, one simply must assume that game Informer has somehow some way found an inordinate amount of "360 haters" in spite of its ubiquitous position in said market.. Perhaps I am missing something, here. Feel free to explain why I am wrong.Shewgenja
1. microsoft has before gave numbers
2.its not 54%
3.why would people believe something, that might not even have used 5000, polls like this shouldnt be trusted. game informer even said they polled people who DIDNT OWN a xbox 360
I don't know, my launchday 360 has never RROD, more than likely it's somewhere between what GI and microsoft said
[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]1. How come Microsoft hasn't provided any actual numbers/percentages from their own data? It would seem to me that if the number was blown way out of proportion then the easiest possible solution would be to provide actual numbers. People can argue all day long on whether or not they want to believe MSes numbers, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. The Fat Lady sings and everyone goes home. 2. The PS3 and Wii's numbers are equally likely to be the victim of "fanboyism." In an egalitarian sense, all the numbers could have been blown out of proportion, but the 360's were 5 times more prone to this behaviour inexplicably? That makes even less sense than the assertion that the 360 could be %50+ faulty. 3. Game Informer, one would assume, polled American gamers. America is the 360's strongest market and enjoys some comfortable amount of domination over, at least, the Playstation 3. Wii owners, being far more prolific and less inclined for HD gaming, have little to no vested interest in smattering the 360 out of the blue. So, in order to pass the numbers off as some gross mechanization of fanboyism, one simply must assume that game Informer has somehow some way found an inordinate amount of "360 haters" in spite of its ubiquitous position in said market.. Perhaps I am missing something, here. Feel free to explain why I am wrong.gamer-adam1
1. microsoft has before gave numbers
2.its not 54%
3.why would people believe something, that might not even have used 5000, polls like this shouldnt be trusted. game informer even said they polled people who DIDNT OWN a xbox 360
#3 is the most important point. If they polled 5000 people and not all of them owned a 360 than one can assume there were alot of people who dont own one that might have said they had one in the past that went RROD. You know just to be a dick or a fanboy about it. The Game Informer crowd who actually read the magazine probably have a higher rate of fanboyism. I think the number for the 360 is higher than any other console on the market but its nowhere near 54%. I used to own a couple 360's and personally I was lucky enough to never have a single problem. I am not much of a fan of the system anymore, I prefer to get the PS3 in the near future.[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]1. How come Microsoft hasn't provided any actual numbers/percentages from their own data? It would seem to me that if the number was blown way out of proportion then the easiest possible solution would be to provide actual numbers. People can argue all day long on whether or not they want to believe MSes numbers, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. The Fat Lady sings and everyone goes home. 2. The PS3 and Wii's numbers are equally likely to be the victim of "fanboyism." In an egalitarian sense, all the numbers could have been blown out of proportion, but the 360's were 5 times more prone to this behaviour inexplicably? That makes even less sense than the assertion that the 360 could be %50+ faulty. 3. Game Informer, one would assume, polled American gamers. America is the 360's strongest market and enjoys some comfortable amount of domination over, at least, the Playstation 3. Wii owners, being far more prolific and less inclined for HD gaming, have little to no vested interest in smattering the 360 out of the blue. So, in order to pass the numbers off as some gross mechanization of fanboyism, one simply must assume that game Informer has somehow some way found an inordinate amount of "360 haters" in spite of its ubiquitous position in said market.. Perhaps I am missing something, here. Feel free to explain why I am wrong.gamer-adam1
1. microsoft has before gave numbers
2.its not 54%
3.why would people believe something, that might not even have used 5000, polls like this shouldnt be trusted. game informer even said they polled people who DIDNT OWN a xbox 360
1. When did they give those numbers and under what pretense? 2. It may or may not be. 3. Okay, it still shows the public is acutely aware of the hardware problems all the same. Which is every bit as big a problem as an actual 54% failure rate.[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]1. How come Microsoft hasn't provided any actual numbers/percentages from their own data? It would seem to me that if the number was blown way out of proportion then the easiest possible solution would be to provide actual numbers. People can argue all day long on whether or not they want to believe MSes numbers, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. The Fat Lady sings and everyone goes home. 2. The PS3 and Wii's numbers are equally likely to be the victim of "fanboyism." In an egalitarian sense, all the numbers could have been blown out of proportion, but the 360's were 5 times more prone to this behaviour inexplicably? That makes even less sense than the assertion that the 360 could be %50+ faulty. 3. Game Informer, one would assume, polled American gamers. America is the 360's strongest market and enjoys some comfortable amount of domination over, at least, the Playstation 3. Wii owners, being far more prolific and less inclined for HD gaming, have little to no vested interest in smattering the 360 out of the blue. So, in order to pass the numbers off as some gross mechanization of fanboyism, one simply must assume that game Informer has somehow some way found an inordinate amount of "360 haters" in spite of its ubiquitous position in said market.. Perhaps I am missing something, here. Feel free to explain why I am wrong.Shewgenja
1. microsoft has before gave numbers
2.its not 54%
3.why would people believe something, that might not even have used 5000, polls like this shouldnt be trusted. game informer even said they polled people who DIDNT OWN a xbox 360
1. When did they give those numbers and under what pretense? 2. It may or may not be. 3. Okay, it still shows the public is acutely aware of the hardware problems all the same. Which is every bit as big a problem as an actual 54% failure rate.along time ago, cant remember they said it was below 33%
. everyone knows theres a hardware problem, but they sell a mag, that is for all system owners, they have no prof about the amount of people owned a 360. and than we dont know if people just wanted to screw around and lie
1. When did they give those numbers and under what pretense? 2. It may or may not be. 3. Okay, it still shows the public is acutely aware of the hardware problems all the same. Which is every bit as big a problem as an actual 54% failure rate.[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="gamer-adam1"]
1. microsoft has before gave numbers
2.its not 54%
3.why would people believe something, that might not even have used 5000, polls like this shouldnt be trusted. game informer even said they polled people who DIDNT OWN a xbox 360
gamer-adam1
along time ago, cant remember they said it was below 33%
. everyone knows theres a hardware problem, but they sell a mag, that is for all system owners, they have no prof about the amount of people owned a 360. and than we dont know if people just wanted to screw around and lie
That takes us back to square one.. The 360 is far more popular in America (at least, certainly at the time of the poll) so what reasoning is there behind the assumption that the 360 got singled out? .. 5 to 1, no less..
[QUOTE="gamer-adam1"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"] 1. When did they give those numbers and under what pretense? 2. It may or may not be. 3. Okay, it still shows the public is acutely aware of the hardware problems all the same. Which is every bit as big a problem as an actual 54% failure rate.Shewgenja
along time ago, cant remember they said it was below 33%
. everyone knows theres a hardware problem, but they sell a mag, that is for all system owners, they have no prof about the amount of people owned a 360. and than we dont know if people just wanted to screw around and lie
That takes us back to square one.. The 360 is far more popular in America (at least, certainly at the time of the poll) so what reasoning is there behind the assumption that the 360 got singled out? .. 5 to 1, no less.. because the ps3 is far more popular in america then its other regions? alot of the information doesn't match in the poll if 54% have had such huge problems why are only 3% unwilling to buy another?
i agree, the real numbers are probably higher then 54%
Whats most disturbing about the fanboy aspect of this article is that its titles, "Epic Fail" and has to do with the performance of ALL THREE consoles... it is not slanted in any way of singleing out the 360. So right off the bat, any thread you read that comes close to, "GI calls the 360 and Epic Fail" is bollocks and down right wrong.
As far as the accuracy of the numbers... well 5,000 people, some of which dont even own the console they were asked about... the market has moved well over 100 million consoles between the three manufacturers this generation, worldwide. Game Informer calling a 13 year old kid with a sony slant and ask him "how many times has your 360 RROD'ed" and he answers 8, just might not be the most scientific of all data...
Im not suggesting that GI's article was written out of any malice or intent of contraversy. I just think you need to call it like it is, a gaming magazine looking to sell magazines and discussing a topic in gameing. outside of that, its pure speculation. Its like me writting an article for my local newspaper about chevy's breaking down post 2004 stands at 30% because I called a couple thousand people, some of which don't own a chevy and asked them... sounds silly when you put it in that context.
Great fodder for system wars though, huh? thank god system wars doesn't represent real life in any capacity whatsoever... (haha, that may be sig worthy)
what type of internet have you been visiting? fanboys are common online, system wars isn't the exclusive place for them. AS for that how many non-fanboys would have a game informer sub AND take part in a survey?People need to realise that console fanboys outside SW is a very small minority. Sure you might get a few fanboy answers but they would be very few.
JLF1
another thing you bring up failure rates would be more overblown....cows and sony them selves claim the ps3 is under 3# failure rate...yet we have near 11% for the ps3...thats bit more then less then 3%.
[QUOTE="JLF1"]what type of internet have you been visiting? fanboys are common online, system wars isn't the exclusive place for them. AS for that how many non-fanboys would have a game informer sub AND take part in a survey?People need to realise that console fanboys outside SW is a very small minority. Sure you might get a few fanboy answers but they would be very few.
WilliamRLBaker
Fanboys might be a very vocal demographic but they are far from the majority.
I can't give you an answer to your questions but I can say that subscribing to game informer or answering polls does not make you fanboy. I fankly don't see why any of those option would make you a fanboy
what type of internet have you been visiting? fanboys are common online, system wars isn't the exclusive place for them. AS for that how many non-fanboys would have a game informer sub AND take part in a survey?[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="JLF1"]
People need to realise that console fanboys outside SW is a very small minority. Sure you might get a few fanboy answers but they would be very few.
JLF1
Fanboys might be a very vocal demographic but they are far from the majority.
I can't give you an answer to your questions but I can say that subscribing to game informer or answering polls does not make you fanboy. I fankly don't see why any of those option would make you a fanboy
what type of internet have you been visiting? fanboys are common online, system wars isn't the exclusive place for them. AS for that how many non-fanboys would have a game informer sub AND take part in a survey?[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="JLF1"]
People need to realise that console fanboys outside SW is a very small minority. Sure you might get a few fanboy answers but they would be very few.
JLF1
Fanboys might be a very vocal demographic but they are far from the majority.
I can't give you an answer to your questions but I can say that subscribing to game informer or answering polls does not make you fanboy. I fankly don't see why any of those option would make you a fanboy
That would be the crux of the matter. It's not like we're talking about OPM or a console specific magazine. Game Informer has a wide subscription base.Shewgenja
Well it was a poll for all consoles not a poll exclusively for the 360 wasn't it?
I don't trust the poll myself but you can't scream "FANBOYS" every time a poll doesn't agree with you.
Besides if it is like you said that this poll was infested with fanboy voting then wouldn't that mean that the 360 would have a much less failure rate and the PS3 and Wii a much higher as there are more 360 owners out there that would vote against the Wii and PS3? As you said the 360 owners are a larger demographic in US which would mean that there are more 360 fanboys that would vote for the benefit of the 360.
PS3 and Wii failure rates are not 10% and 6% respectively. /thread
I expect it to be higher than usual for gamers because we use the machine more and put it through its paces. But not that high.
[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]
That would be the crux of the matter. It's not like we're talking about OPM or a console specific magazine. Game Informer has a wide subscription base.JLF1
Well it was a poll for all consoles not a poll exclusively for the 360 wasn't it?
I don't trust the poll myself but you can't scream "FANBOYS" every time a poll doesn't agree with you.
Besides if it is like you said that this poll was infested with fanboy voting then wouldn't that mean that the 360 would have a much less failure rate and the PS3 and Wii a much higher as there are more 360 owners out there that would vote against the Wii and PS3? As you said the 360 owners are a larger demographic in US which would mean that there are more 360 fanboys that would vote for the benefit of the 360.
I dismiss the article because their sample rate is approx .062 percent of all XBox 360's sold.
5000 out of approx. 8 Million is .o62 percent, not a valid sample rate by any means and irresponsible to print as "fact" in regards to overall.
[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]
That would be the crux of the matter. It's not like we're talking about OPM or a console specific magazine. Game Informer has a wide subscription base.Shewgenja
Well it was a poll for all consoles not a poll exclusively for the 360 wasn't it?
I don't trust the poll myself but you can't scream "FANBOYS" every time a poll doesn't agree with you.
Besides if it is like you said that this poll was infested with fanboy voting then wouldn't that mean that the 360 would have a much less failure rate and the PS3 and Wii a much higher as there are more 360 owners out there that would vote against the Wii and PS3? As you said the 360 owners are a larger demographic in US which would mean that there are more 360 fanboys that would vote for the benefit of the 360.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y the point! Unless Game Informer conducted their polls at Sony ****stores, there is very little reason to believe the 360 was singled out 5:1 due to fanboyism.
There's no way to prove either way and that's the problem. We have no way of knowing just how slanted GI's poll is. We don't know what demographic GI serves. Maybe their Playstation readership is much higher than their 360 readership. We don't know. And since they didn't fact check their information, their poll is in no way scientific and can't be used. If you want to believe a non scientific poll then I have a machine that turns lead to gold that I'll sell you.
[QUOTE="Shewgenja"][QUOTE="JLF1"]
Well it was a poll for all consoles not a poll exclusively for the 360 wasn't it?
I don't trust the poll myself but you can't scream "FANBOYS" every time a poll doesn't agree with you.Besides if it is like you said that this poll was infested with fanboy voting then wouldn't that mean that the 360 would have a much less failure rate and the PS3 and Wii a much higher as there are more 360 owners out there that would vote against the Wii and PS3? As you said the 360 owners are a larger demographic in US which would mean that there are more 360 fanboys that would vote for the benefit of the 360.mythrol
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y the point! Unless Game Informer conducted their polls at Sony ****stores, there is very little reason to believe the 360 was singled out 5:1 due to fanboyism.
There's no way to prove either way and that's the problem. We have no way of knowing just how slanted GI's poll is. We don't know what demographic GI serves. Maybe their Playstation readership is much higher than their 360 readership. We don't know. And since they didn't fact check their information, their poll is in no way scientific and can't be used. If you want to believe a non scientific poll then I have a machine that turns lead to gold that I'll sell you.
Oh, and I actually agree. That's why my first argument was essentially "Why hasn't MS debunked it with actual numbers?" At this point, it would be the logical thing for them to do.
I have no idea what the total percentage is but I still, to this date, have never meet a 360 owner in person that hasn't had a RROD at least once. (over 20)
Do I think it's 100%, definitely not.... But I don't believe for one second it's under 10%.
[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y the point! Unless Game Informer conducted their polls at Sony ****stores, there is very little reason to believe the 360 was singled out 5:1 due to fanboyism. Shewgenja
There's no way to prove either way and that's the problem. We have no way of knowing just how slanted GI's poll is. We don't know what demographic GI serves. Maybe their Playstation readership is much higher than their 360 readership. We don't know. And since they didn't fact check their information, their poll is in no way scientific and can't be used. If you want to believe a non scientific poll then I have a machine that turns lead to gold that I'll sell you.
Oh, and I actually agree. That's why my first argument was essentially "Why hasn't MS debunked it with actual numbers?" At this point, it would be the logical thing for them to do. Because it serves them no purpose right now in doing so. If they release numbers it won't matter what it is, people will complain. 16%? Far too high. They also have released TWO completely new SKU's since the original. It would make no sense to release hardware failure numbers for an old sku. That can only potentially hurt sales of your new one as people are confused about which had the failure rates. And finally, while this story is popular in SW and forums around the net populated by fanboys, it hasn't broke across the mainstream news media so it has very little chance of causing much harm as it stands now. If we saw this story break across Good Morning America, you can bet that MS would reply. There's simply no need to right now, it only does more to hurt them.That's so weird because out of 47 consoles of friends of mine, only 4 have RROD. Strange how these things work.I have no idea what the total percentage is but I still, to this date, have never meet a 360 owner in person that hasn't had a RROD at least once. (over 20)
Do I think it's 100%, definitely not.... But I don't believe for one second it's under 10%.
FragTycoon
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