Casual Vs Hardcore. Casual Wins

I'm John Carry on this one, so im not going to make any points, or voice my opinion.

Read it: http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/07/06/secret-to-the-casual/

and Go.

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

VoxteX

wise words..

[QUOTE="VoxteX"]

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

12345yon

wise words..

biased words.

i understand where he's coming from. one point that i thing was... well, decent was, "does ur game need a tutorial?" then the game is broken." he IS right that some of the greatest games of all time have simple, but intuitive gameplay. but his argument did start to fall apart when he made the mistake of saying that hardcore devs make games just to show off what they can do just for bragging rights.

i understood what the first poster said until he used the term "anti-Wii" those arent wise words at all.

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

VoxteX

And this anti-casual mindset also leads to some nice pompous attitudes....

[QUOTE="VoxteX"]

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

SpruceCaboose

And this anti-casual mindset also leads to some nice pompous attitudes....

agreed. please vortex, u seem like a smart guy, id like to hear what u have to say after uve opened ur mind to what this casual supporter has to say.

Off topic: How was bioshock "dumbed" down? hopesfall2own

it was multiplat :roll:

aaanyway why can't casuals andharcores COEXIST?

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Off topic: How was bioshock "dumbed" down? crunchUK

it was multiplat :roll:

aaanyway why can't casuals andharcores COEXIST?

Are you serious? The game didn't even have an inventory system and the combat and game in general was far too easy. System Shock 2 had a whole research system and many other features that were taken out when Bioshock was made. Most likely because it was "consolized" but also to be a much more approachable game for casuals.

Take a look at this faq: http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/185706/27508

The game had 5 abilities: hack, repair, modify, maintain, and research. All of these were upgradable and useful in many ways. You could repair weapons that broke, upgrade them, hack stuff, etc. Barely any of this made it to Bioshock.

The game had stats: Strength, Endurance, Psi, Agility, and Cyber. Each one provided different benefits and provided a nice level of customization.

The game had several TIERS of Psi (magic) abilities. It wasn't just simple "you're at this point in the game here's this new ability". Each tier you had to make a choice of which ability you wanted and once again added greatly to the depth of the game.

Need more explanation?

Also, if you're still reading, I believe that casuals and non-casuals can coexist just fine and always have. The problem I have is the recent phenomenon of "casualizing" popular video game franchises that deserve proper sequels. I've never seen it happen before until just this generation. I have nothing against the Wii; the market is there so the supply will be there.

[QUOTE="VoxteX"]

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

SpruceCaboose

And this anti-casual mindset also leads to some nice pompous attitudes....

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

VoxteX

[QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="hopesfall2own"]Off topic: How was bioshock "dumbed" down? VoxteX

it was multiplat :roll:

aaanyway why can't casuals andharcores COEXIST?

Are you serious? The game didn't even have an inventory system and the combat and game in general was far too easy. System Shock 2 had a whole research system and many other features that were taken out when Bioshock was made. Most likely because it was "consolized" but also to be a much more approachable game for casuals.

Take a look at this faq: http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/185706/27508

The game had 5 abilities: hack, repair, modify, maintain, and research. All of these were upgradable and useful in many ways. You could repair weapons that broke, upgrade them, hack stuff, etc. Barely any of this made it to Bioshock.

The game had stats: Strength, Endurance, Psi, Agility, and Cyber. Each one provided different benefits and provided a nice level of customization.

The game had several TIERS of Psi (magic) abilities. It wasn't just simple "you're at this point in the game here's this new ability". Each tier you had to make a choice of which ability you wanted and once again added greatly to the depth of the game.

Need more explanation?

Also, if you're still reading, I believe that casuals and non-casuals can coexist just fine and always have. The problem I have is the recent phenomenon of "casualizing" popular video game franchises that deserve proper sequels. I've never seen it happen before until just this generation. I have nothing against the Wii; the market is there so the supply will be there.

the reason y the indusrty has recently started casualizing sequals is that video games is such a rapidly growing medium, that publishers see the opportunity to bring in more consumors. even if if it means simplifying games in order for it to appeal to a more casual crowd. result: bringing more money and growth to the indusrty

its simple logic.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"][QUOTE="VoxteX"]

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

Shinobishyguy

And this anti-casual mindset also leads to some nice pompous attitudes....

:lol:

the reason y the indusrty has recently started casualizing sequals is that video games is such a rapidly growing medium, that publishers see the opportunity to bring in more consumors. even if if it means simplifying games in order for it to appeal to a more casual crowd. result: bringing more money and growth to the indusrty

its simple logic.

mrjam0

And i dont get any enjoyment out of a company's sales. If the gameplay is compromised due to sales and a wider audience, it seems reasonable to complain about it.

Its simple logic.

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

VoxteX

You say Wii is dumbing down gaming yet it was the 360/PS3 which dumbed down Oblivion and Bioshock.

If you haven't noticed by the other topic, Wii has yet to dumb down a game.

Everything is getting casual now and it's annoying.

I don't like games that takes all my time to play.I play around 2-3 hours maximum.

I have the PS3 and play maingly fighting games and I plan to get a Wii soon.

[QUOTE="VoxteX"]

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

Silenthps

You say Wii is dumbing down gaming yet it was the 360/PS3 which dumbed down Oblivion and Bioshock.

If you haven't noticed by the other topic, Wii has yet to dumb down a game.

I agree with you completely. Nintendo isn't to blame, it's the industry itself. There has been a large paradigm shift and developers are now focusing on making games more accessible so they can sell more copies. This may be good for them as they make more money, but we, as gamers, still have a legitimate complaint. But I do believe that the Wii also had a large role in creating the shift towards "casualizing" games. I think I'm just going to stick with PC from now on since it seems to deliver exactly what I want.

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

VoxteX

Tetris would be considered a 'hardcore' game, imo... if hardcore/casual games existed, which they do not.

As for your real gamer comment, Real gamers play games. Thats it, Sure, We, as gamers,like to and enjoy being challenged and engrossed in a story. But thats not all a game is, a game that is all story is just an interactive book/movie. Again, I'll state this as I have MANY MANY times before, Hardware does not define casual/hardcore. Its the software, and the people who play that software that does. The Wii isn't any more or less hardcore or casual than the PS2/GCN/XBOX/PS3/XBOX360 is.

I state the PS2 there because it was by far the most 'casualizing' bit of hardware on the market. By that I mean having the most casual selection of software, and thats WHY it won(same with the ps1).

The Wii creates a market for games for EVERYONE. That is Nintendo's plan, that is Nintendo's genius and its working. Detracting from the hardcore REAL game market? I point back to Tetris again, by your defintion its not a hardcore game, so its not a real game eh? Tell that to the millions of gamers that they its not a game.

You sir, I doubt has ANY idea what a true hardcore gamer is and think just because you play games that require you to push 50 buttons to shoot someone makes you hardcore. No sir, you're not. Tell me you've ever stayed up 3 days with little to no sleep playing ANY game non sto and I'll call you a liar. I, however, can say I have. I've had my internet provider suspend my internet because I was using it too much(back in the dial up days I say). In case you're wondering what I was playin, No not WoW, TetriNET is where its at(or was).

why should it be VS....why not AND?

as a gamer of almost 20 years (so thats 19 for all the smart asses out their :P)......i dont care. i played endless ocean and, know what? i enjoyed it. i want another one with a bigger ocean and more exploring please. i enjoy peggle from time to time and ive been addicted to puzzle quest.

if ppl want to hem themselves into a smal sector of gaming then fair enough....but its goign to be a very small gaming world.

this casual V hardcore business is just plain nonsensical gibberish...there games and thats all that matters.

just like i would urge ppl who are just getting interested to try something like okami...or if they want to jump in the deep end then baldurs gate....i would also urge so called hardcore gamers to give the casual games a go. because heres the dirty little secret....not all casual games are putrid trash. theres actually quite a few enjoyable ones.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="VoxteX"]

What a stupid article and really lengthy as well. He tries to compare the Wii to an easy-to-approach professor and the 360/PS3 to a professor that enthrones himself (this is talking about college professors). This comparison makes no sense.

Casual games tend to have weak/no stories, very easy difficulties, and gimmicky style play. Most real gamers (hardcore gamers) DO NOT LIKE THESE GAMES. We like to be challenged and engrossed in the story. We can conquer "complicated" controls because in the end they allow us to accomplish what we want with great precision. This is why people are anti-casual (anti-Wii).

The Wii creates a market for gimmicky games, potentially detracting from the hardcore (read: REAL) game market that most of us have grown up with and enjoy. It also leads to the 'dumbing' down of games (see Oblivion and Bioshock) which, with our style of play, creates a less enjoyable game.

If only most gamers knew the greatness of System Shock 2 and weren't stuck with Bioshock...

VoxteX

You say Wii is dumbing down gaming yet it was the 360/PS3 which dumbed down Oblivion and Bioshock.

If you haven't noticed by the other topic, Wii has yet to dumb down a game.

I agree with you completely. Nintendo isn't to blame, it's the industry itself. There has been a large paradigm shift and developers are now focusing on making games more accessible so they can sell more copies. This may be good for them as they make more money, but we, as gamers, still have a legitimate complaint. But I do believe that the Wii also had a large role in creating the shift towards "casualizing" games. I think I'm just going to stick with PC from now on since it seems to deliver exactly what I want.

I'm John Carry on this one, so im not going to make any points, or voice my opinion.

Read it: http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/07/06/secret-to-the-casual/

and Go.

mrjam0

Can i please have my 5 minutes back for reading that junk

[QUOTE="mrjam0"]the reason y the indusrty has recently started casualizing sequals is that video games is such a rapidly growing medium, that publishers see the opportunity to bring in more consumors. even if if it means simplifying games in order for it to appeal to a more casual crowd. result: bringing more money and growth to the indusrty

its simple logic.

XaosII

And i dont get any enjoyment out of a company's sales. If the gameplay is compromised due to sales and a wider audience, it seems reasonable to complain about it.

Its simple logic.

ur statement holds no logic. its called business. listen to a podcast. read an article or two. u'll see what kind of pressure developers r under.