Casual Vs. Hardcore is Totally Meaningless

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BoloTheGreat

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#1 BoloTheGreat
Member since 2008 • 3483 Posts

Do not fear, this is not as long a read as Acitic's rabling novel :P but i am kind of covering similar ground.

The falacy of casual Vs. Hardcore is something that does not just exisit with the confines of System wars, so called gaming 'analisits' use the false dycotomny too make their predicitons, just last week patcher was spouting something about the 'Casual' market and gaming 'Journalists' use the term constantly, just look at last weeks invisible walls and you will hear the term repeatedlty.

Why is it totally redundant? Well Demographics.

Let me explain; The 'Hardcore' gamer (and i use that term losely) playing Persona 3 or the Last Remnant you can proabaly bet isn't the same guy playing STALKER; Clear Sky. The people playing peggle might not be the same as the people playing games like "Let's go to the movies". There is not just one block of one gamers who like all the "Hardcore" Stuff there are certain groups who like certain combinations of things and tend to like certain genres/ stlyes of games,I persoanlly think JRPGs suck balls but that's a whole other thread.

Do games 'Analists' think they are the same mystical casual person? Well this is kind of par for the course, we all probabaly know people like patcher are a joke but what i find dangerious is this moving into the mind of developers.

Case in point; Hose of the dead overkill, awesome game 'Hardcore' but sold like crap. does this mean all hardcore games won't seel on the Wii? No!! The game is a spoof horror move rail shooter, a very niche crowd by anyones definition. People were also surprised by the sales of Mad Wrold, but why? It was a 5 hour ultra violent, Arthouse game with even more focused niche appeal, on a mass market system. When the Wii gets a title that is actually really good (im looking at you Conduit!) that has mass appeal it sells (see nintendo games) becuase it fits a very large chunk of the market regardless. Same with games like Halo 3, it outsold Bionic commando for a reason. Both are 'hardcore' but both inhabit different places in the market place.

This only surpises people when you start talking in 'Hardcore' instead of demographics in the market. It's dumb to even lump games together, the kids playing CoD; MW will most likely not be playing Sins of a Solar empire (i play both but im a PC and general gaming nut, that's my place in the market). Even pretty Genres don't have the same market, Someone who is addicted to Halo 3 online is not neceserally going to buy Arma 2. I could go on forever, Tekken heads will not automatically love CnC4. The Dude who loved GTA4 is likey not quing up to play the latest Japanese Bullet Hell title.

If i can see this so can the so called analysts, there is to much oversimplification on this board, across all sites, with gaming jouralists and analysts. It's just wrong to lump people into two groups.

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BoloTheGreat

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#2 BoloTheGreat
Member since 2008 • 3483 Posts
Do i have to insult the PS3 to get responces on this board?! :?
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BoloTheGreat

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#3 BoloTheGreat
Member since 2008 • 3483 Posts
I guess i do..... :(
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Frozzik

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#4 Frozzik
Member since 2006 • 3914 Posts

I pretty much agree. Although i myself do play The last Remnant and Clear Skies, Peggle, Bookworm Adventures and SoaSE is one of my all time favourite games lol.

You are right though.

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cheapfghtghfdgd

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#5 cheapfghtghfdgd
Member since 2009 • 53 Posts
call of duty is more casual than quake that's a fact it's not meaningless because it's fact.
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Shinobishyguy

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#6 Shinobishyguy
Member since 2006 • 22928 Posts

dem casuals be taking er jabs!

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cheapfghtghfdgd

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#7 cheapfghtghfdgd
Member since 2009 • 53 Posts
hardcore fps dont exist anymore it's all casual fps now i give up on video games. just play the real shooters i grew up with.
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Vaasman

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#8 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15876 Posts

This

=/=

This

Therefore the labeling is not meaningless.

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gameofthering

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#9 gameofthering
Member since 2004 • 11286 Posts

Heres a question for hardcore gamers :P

what was the first video game?

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Frozzik

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#10 Frozzik
Member since 2006 • 3914 Posts

Heres a question for hardcore gamers :P

what was the first video game?

gameofthering

my first game was that silly pong game thing. The one with the twisty pad lol. Can't remember how old i was. I don't call myself as hardcore though.

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BoloTheGreat

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#11 BoloTheGreat
Member since 2008 • 3483 Posts

Heres a question for hardcore gamers :P

what was the first video game?

gameofthering

Cathode Ray Amusmanet Device.

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Vaasman

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#12 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15876 Posts

Heres a question for hardcore gamers :P

what was the first video game?

gameofthering

It largely depends on what you would consider a "video game", but my answer is the cathode ray tube amusement device.

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gameofthering

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#13 gameofthering
Member since 2004 • 11286 Posts

[QUOTE="gameofthering"]

Heres a question for hardcore gamers :P

what was the first video game?

Vaasman

It largely depends on what you would consider a "video game", but my answer is the cathode ray tube amusement device.

Never knew there was one before "Tennis for two"

You learn something new everyday :P

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shutdown_202

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#14 shutdown_202
Member since 2005 • 5649 Posts

This

=/=

This

Therefore the labeling is not meaningless.

Vaasman

but does that equal this

Bolo's point is something along those lines.

Anyway that was an interesting read and a unique angle to look it from. Agreed.

OT: What the hell happened to your 2009 pic thread? i need some lulz dammit.

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BoloTheGreat

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#15 BoloTheGreat
Member since 2008 • 3483 Posts
Thankyou shutdown that was my point exactly let me expand on that, Is Animal Crossing Hardcore or Casual? It's hard to tell with many games. And the "Funny Pictures 2009 Uber Eddition" thread is driffting somewhere in the ether, maybe someone should bump it....
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dakan45

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#16 dakan45
Member since 2009 • 18819 Posts
i know many hardcore games that get casualized sequels, because the truth is that in the end, the casual games win, more players = more sales.
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BoloTheGreat

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#17 BoloTheGreat
Member since 2008 • 3483 Posts

i know many hardcore games that get casualized sequels, because the truth is that in the end, the casual games win, more players = more sales.dakan45
Games not get "Casualised" they get tempered towards what people think are the mass audience, they get made more mainstream and try to become Callof Duty or such. CoD and Halo are not casual games yet they do feature quite a shallow (if not highly polished) game stlye, that's how they roll, that's how they are supposed to be. It's not the "Casual" gaming that's making these games get dumbed down at all, much of the time it is a combination of; Trying to emulate sucess, Switching to a more mass market platform (eg PC to 360). They are trying to apeal to a larger demographic that if it is on PS3/360 is hardly what i think of as 'casual'.

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#18 1080pOnly
Member since 2009 • 2216 Posts

[QUOTE="dakan45"]i know many hardcore games that get casualized sequels, because the truth is that in the end, the casual games win, more players = more sales.BoloTheGreat

Games not get "Casualised" they get tempered towards what people think are the mass audience, they get made more mainstream and try to become Callof Duty or such. CoD and Halo are not casual games yet they do feature quite a shallow (if not highly polished) game stlye, that's how they roll, that's how they are supposed to be. It's not the "Casual" gaming that's making these games get dumbed down at all, much of the time it is a combination of; Trying to emulate sucess, Switching to a more mass market platform (eg PC to 360). They are trying to apeal to a larger demographic that if it is on PS3/360 is hardly what i think of as 'casual'.

If you ask me it's the attitude ofour generation that is ruining games. No one wants to think anymore, just slob on their couch with challengeless games. Everything must be now, now, now and nothing is worth working towards. Video games are simply following the trend of everything else in this world, simplified for instant gratification.

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HenriH-42

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#19 HenriH-42
Member since 2007 • 2113 Posts

[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"]

[QUOTE="dakan45"]i know many hardcore games that get casualized sequels, because the truth is that in the end, the casual games win, more players = more sales.1080pOnly

Games not get "Casualised" they get tempered towards what people think are the mass audience, they get made more mainstream and try to become Callof Duty or such. CoD and Halo are not casual games yet they do feature quite a shallow (if not highly polished) game stlye, that's how they roll, that's how they are supposed to be. It's not the "Casual" gaming that's making these games get dumbed down at all, much of the time it is a combination of; Trying to emulate sucess, Switching to a more mass market platform (eg PC to 360). They are trying to apeal to a larger demographic that if it is on PS3/360 is hardly what i think of as 'casual'.

If you ask me it's the attitude ofour generation that is ruining games. No one wants to think anymore, just slob on their couch with challengeless games. Everything must be now, now, now and nothing is worth working towards. Video games are simply following the trend of everything else in this world, simplified for instant gratification.

Agreed.

It's making me sad :(

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Wartzay

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#20 Wartzay
Member since 2006 • 2036 Posts

[QUOTE="1080pOnly"]

[QUOTE="BoloTheGreat"] Games not get "Casualised" they get tempered towards what people think are the mass audience, they get made more mainstream and try to become Callof Duty or such. CoD and Halo are not casual games yet they do feature quite a shallow (if not highly polished) game stlye, that's how they roll, that's how they are supposed to be. It's not the "Casual" gaming that's making these games get dumbed down at all, much of the time it is a combination of; Trying to emulate sucess, Switching to a more mass market platform (eg PC to 360). They are trying to apeal to a larger demographic that if it is on PS3/360 is hardly what i think of as 'casual'.

HenriH-42

If you ask me it's the attitude ofour generation that is ruining games. No one wants to think anymore, just slob on their couch with challengeless games. Everything must be now, now, now and nothing is worth working towards. Video games are simply following the trend of everything else in this world, simplified for instant gratification.

Agreed.

It's making me sad :(

not all games!

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osan0

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#21 osan0
Member since 2004 • 18260 Posts
i see it like this. hardcore and casual is all meaningless drivel. there are games and gamers and thats it. some are good games..some arent. some interest me...some dont. i pick up the good games that interest me and thats it.