CES 2008: Metal Gear Solid 4 frame rate in flux on PS3 (plus two new vids)

As always take with a grain of salt.

http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=5369

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-98063.aspx(Videos)

Sony Corp. demonstrated Konami Corp.'sfor the Playstation 3 on Mon. at the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, NV.

The latest build of the next Metal Gear entry held a frame rate at 30 frames per second and 60 frames depending on the amount of action displayed on-screen.

The show floor demonstration showcased the outdoor warzonefeatured last Aug. at the E for All Expo in Los Angeles.

When the on-screen visuals held less action and focused on nearby buildings the action locked at 60 frames per second. However, when bullet fire, grenades, smoke, and debris filtered the screen, the action fell to 30 frames per second.

The frame rate flux was barely noticable, however, at a higher frame rate, textures held much sharper detail.

The non-playable cinematic portions of the title were locked at 60 frames per second. The movie showcased at the show floor featured Old Snake speaking to Otacon through a remote device.

In Oct., Konami delayed the title to Q2 of 2008 to make further improvements to the quality of the game.

OH NOES

there is still plenty of work to be done on this game. especially for prepping it for its 360 release

EDIT: i also loved how the enemies can poke through walls. thats a huge tactical advantage to clip the environment

OH jeez...this is a hundred post thread waiting.

I saw this yesterday. It has 30 FPS in some places and 60 FPS in others. I don't see the issue.

Dropping to 30 frames in intense effects shouldn't even be mentioned when referring to a console game. It's not bad at all.

Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."Blue-Sphere

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."Arnalion

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

[QUOTE="Arnalion"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."Koalakommander

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

Dropping to 30 frames in intense effects shouldn't even be mentioned when referring to a console game. It's not bad at all.

Koalakommander

You will notice a drop from 60fps to 30fps.

dont forget its still the TGS build from last september.

frame rate will prolly be locked at 30fps for the final version....... maybe 60 :) but I dont think a 3rd person game like mgs need it

[QUOTE="Arnalion"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."Koalakommander

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

[QUOTE="Arnalion"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."Koalakommander

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

Please stop spouting this nonsense. This was debated last year when Madden hit with it's 30fps vs 60 fps versionsand there is just so much information on the internet proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the human eye can detect far, far, FAAARRRRR more then 30 FPS that to continue to support this load of bunk is just plain sad. Research done by many organizations, including the USAF, have shown the human eye can detect FPS into the hundreds.

That said, Bioshock for the 360did the same trick as MGS4 locking the framerate at 30 fps during action sequences and 60 fps for the rest and the game looked silky smooth. I expect MGS4 to run just as beautifully.

[QUOTE="Koalakommander"]

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

Awinagainov

What? That doesn't have anything to do with PS3 fans.When you go to the theater to watch a movie, the screen is black for half of the time, but you don't notice. It's the absolute threshold for the human eye. Being a fanboy does not change science, so don't be a fanboy about it.

thats AWESOME

as long as it stays above 30 for the vast majority of the game, i'm sold.

[QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="Arnalion"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."myke2010

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

Please stop spouting this nonsense. This was debated last year when Madden hit with it's 30fps vs 60 fps versionsand there is just so much information on the internet proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the human eye can detect far, far, FAAARRRRR more then 30 FPS that to continue to support this load of bunk is just plain sad. Research done by many organizations, including the USAF, have shown the human eye can detect FPS into the hundreds.

That said, Bioshock for the 360did the same trick as MGS4 locking the framerate at 30 fps during action sequences and 60 fps for the rest and the game looked silky smooth. I expect MGS4 to run just as beautifully.

Here's why people notice dips in madden. It is running at 30 fps -- so when it reaches its slowdown periods, they are noticeable because the game is dipping below30 fps.

MGS4 is running a 60 fps. During its slowdowns, it dips to a low of 30. Noticeable? Barely. Anything out of the ordinary for a console game? Not really.

[QUOTE="myke2010"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="Arnalion"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."Koalakommander

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

Please stop spouting this nonsense. This was debated last year when Madden hit with it's 30fps vs 60 fps versionsand there is just so much information on the internet proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the human eye can detect far, far, FAAARRRRR more then 30 FPS that to continue to support this load of bunk is just plain sad. Research done by many organizations, including the USAF, have shown the human eye can detect FPS into the hundreds.

That said, Bioshock for the 360did the same trick as MGS4 locking the framerate at 30 fps during action sequences and 60 fps for the rest and the game looked silky smooth. I expect MGS4 to run just as beautifully.

Here's why people notice dips in madden. It is running at 30 fps -- so when it reaches its slowdown periods, they are noticeable because the game is dipping below30 fps.

MGS4 is running a 60 fps. During its slowdowns, it dips to a low of 30. Noticeable? Barely. Anything out of the ordinary for a console game? Not really.

[QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="myke2010"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="Arnalion"]

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Topic title's a little misleading, since they say it's "barely noticeable."myke2010

It depends much on the player. Some people can play a game running at 10-20 fps and not notice the lagg.
A ditch from 60 to 30 fps would a blind cow notice.

The human eye can't tell the difference after 30 fps (could be lower). There's slowdown in almost every game when you clutter the screen with to many effects -- and dropping down to 30 isn't bad at all.

Please stop spouting this nonsense. This was debated last year when Madden hit with it's 30fps vs 60 fps versionsand there is just so much information on the internet proving beyond a shadow of a doubt the human eye can detect far, far, FAAARRRRR more then 30 FPS that to continue to support this load of bunk is just plain sad. Research done by many organizations, including the USAF, have shown the human eye can detect FPS into the hundreds.

That said, Bioshock for the 360did the same trick as MGS4 locking the framerate at 30 fps during action sequences and 60 fps for the rest and the game looked silky smooth. I expect MGS4 to run just as beautifully.

Here's why people notice dips in madden. It is running at 30 fps -- so when it reaches its slowdown periods, they are noticeable because the game is dipping below30 fps.

MGS4 is running a 60 fps. During its slowdowns, it dips to a low of 30. Noticeable? Barely. Anything out of the ordinary for a console game? Not really.

The new Samsung TV's run at 120Hz not 120 FPS. Most movies run at a locked speed of 24 FPS, meaning it won't go up or down. Now, the reason why it seems clearer on a 120hz tv is because the refresh rate is much faster

So staying at 60fps mostly, but dropping to 30fps others? Wow. Not bad. Games like heavenly sword can barely stay at 25fps, not alone 60fps.

Konami is taking their time, and its showing. Hopefully, this is the one ps3 game that shines.

The new Samsung TV's run at 120Hz not 120 FPS. Most movies run at a locked speed of 24 FPS, meaning it won't go up or down. Now, the reason why it seems clearer on a 120hz tv is because the refresh rate is much faster

aaron6581230

Hz=FPS.

[QUOTE="aaron6581230"]

The new Samsung TV's run at 120Hz not 120 FPS. Most movies run at a locked speed of 24 FPS, meaning it won't go up or down. Now, the reason why it seems clearer on a 120hz tv is because the refresh rate is much faster

BobHipJames

Hz=FPS.

usually. but in some tv cases not always thanks to the engine the tv uses. idk mabe this tv has a bravia like engine where that would be true, then it would be like computer monitor, but says normal sdtvs and 4 year old hdtvs are mostly locked at 24fps.

Darn.

I want the WHOLE game to be 60 fps.

What is going on here?

The Wii can do 60 fps and the other consoles can't?

The frame rate flux was barely noticable, however, at a higher frame rate, textures held much sharper detail.

gmastersexay

Hold on a minute.....WHAT?

Why would the textures hold more detail at a higher framerate? At a higher framerate, theoretically you would have to have LESS texture detail and less geometry so that the GPU was less strained by the amount of things/quality it had to render. That doesn't even make any sense. I would assume that, if anything, the textures would be higher quality at lower framerates because the GPU was less able to render the higher res textures and thus would take a performance hit.

It's called performance vs quality. You take one or the other. You can't have it both ways.

This editor probably just didn't understand what was happening....this actual effect is called dynamic LOD (level of detail). The "sharper detail" textures have nothing to do with the framerate. The only reason they were probably sharper is because, like the editor pointed out earlier, the higher framerate was held in close-up environments where the dynamic LOD is going to provide a higher res or sharper texture than at long distance where the dynamic LOD will cause it to lose detail.

Honestly, though, those of you trying to say that we can't notice the difference between 60 FPS and 30 FPS need to get your eyes checked. Anyone who has EVER played a game with a dynamic framerate or with frame drops can tell you that this is BS. I can certainly tell the difference, and I'm certainly not superhuman.

But as far as the 60-30 FPS frame drops....that's actually spectacular performance. As some have brought up, games like Halo and Resistance run at 30 FPS, and so did Gears of War and most other games this gen....60 FPS usually isn't very achieveable, and this game will run at at least 720p resolution, unlike COD4 which had to make a resolution sacrifice to maintain its 60 FPS.

As long as it runs at at least 30 FPS no one will care. 30 FPS....yeah, we sure can notice it, but it's certainly extremely bearable. Keep in mind that this game will not be a fast paced FPS like Resistance or Halo....probably even significantly slower paced for 90% of the game than Gears of War.

And again like others have said further optimization will be done before Q2 2008.

Darn.

I want the WHOLE game to be 60 fps.

What is going on here?

The Wii can do 60 fps and the other consoles can't?

Willy105

What are you talking about?

Very few games run at 60 FPS, whether on a high-end PC, the 360, the PS3, or the Wii....or for that matter, any console on earth running any game ever made.

Here's a few...COD4, GT5, Forza 2, Ninja Gaiden Sigma....and the last batch was even older. Like I said, VERY few games run at 60 FPS. Do you expect a miracle? A multi-thousand dollar high end PC with a quad core and a tri-SLI 8800 GTX GPU setup ran Crysis maxed with no AA/AF at about 35 FPS average....with lows at about 14 FPS. That's a drop of about 31 frames from the 45 FPS max.

The Wii....listen, if you tried to run Crysis, Call of Duty, GT5, or MGS4 on the Wii, it would melt. 'Nuff said.

[QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="aaron6581230"]

The new Samsung TV's run at 120Hz not 120 FPS. Most movies run at a locked speed of 24 FPS, meaning it won't go up or down. Now, the reason why it seems clearer on a 120hz tv is because the refresh rate is much faster

LibertySaint

Hz=FPS.

usually. but in some tv cases not always thanks to the engine the tv uses. idk mabe this tv has a bravia like engine where that would be true, then it would be like computer monitor, but says normal sdtvs and 4 year old hdtvs are mostly locked at 24fps.

Thanks for clarifying.

Dude, when there's explosions, smoke, debris, and bullets flying I won't be taking time to notice the 30FPS opposed to 60FPS. StephenHu

Absolutely not.....your eyes will detect it, that's for sure, but considering that this is only in hectic moments, that's actually FANTASTIC performance, for any game, on any rig.

Darn.

I want the WHOLE game to be 60 fps.

What is going on here?

The Wii can do 60 fps and the other consoles can't?

Willy105

The Wii's Graphics and Physics don't look like this.:|

The non-playable cinematic portions of the title were locked at 60 frames per second. The movie showcased at the show floor featured Old Snake speaking to Otacon through a remote device.gmastersexay

Is there a link to this video?

[QUOTE="Willy105"]

Darn.

I want the WHOLE game to be 60 fps.

What is going on here?

The Wii can do 60 fps and the other consoles can't?

Adrian_Cloud

The Wii's Graphics and Physics don't look like this.:|

A game made for Wii runs at 60 fps (like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Super Smash Bros. Brawl)

Why can't a game made for PS3 run at PS3? What games run at 60 fps for PS3 other than Gran Turismo HD?

A game made for Wii runs at 60 fps (like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Super Smash Bros. Brawl)

Why can't a game made for PS3 run at PS3? What games run at 60 fps for PS3 other than Gran Turismo HD?

Willy105

Did you read any of my posts?

Call of Duty 4 and Ninja Gaiden Sigma, so far.

Most games don't run at 60 FPS.

I guarantee you that the PS3 could smoke all of those Wii games at 2-4 times the framerate if optimized properly....

it has a more powerful GPU, much more RAM, and a much, much more powerful CPU.

Most of those games run well on the Wii because they're running at 480i/p resolution and they have much lower res textures, less complicated lighting/shading effects, no HDR, lower poly counts, draw distances, etc....

it's been well documented that a lot of third-party Wii titles drop below 60 FPS and the Wii is currently the reigning champion of ugliest console graphics....

[QUOTE="Willy105"]

A game made for Wii runs at 60 fps (like Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz, Super Smash Bros. Brawl)

Why can't a game made for PS3 run at PS3? What games run at 60 fps for PS3 other than Gran Turismo HD?

BobHipJames

Did you read any of my posts?

Call of Duty 4 and Ninja Gaiden Sigma, so far.

Most games don't run at 60 FPS.

I guarantee you that the PS3 could smoke all of those Wii games at 2-4 times the framerate if optimized properly....

it has a more powerful GPU, much more RAM, and a much, much more powerful CPU.

Most of those games run well on the Wii because they're running at 480i/p resolution and they have much lower res textures, less complicated lighting/shading effects, no HDR, lower poly counts, draw distances, etc....

it's been well documented that a lot of third-party Wii titles drop below 60 FPS and the Wii is currently the reigning champion of ugliest console graphics....

But they should.

That's all I am saying.

Is it that hard to understand?

mgs sucks, halo is much better.LaidToRestt

Well, after 20 plus years of gaming Halo series might be THE MOST OVERATED SERIES EVER!!