Compromised PSN account with $500 charges, Sony disputes chargeback

I feel that this might be questioned as an attack on Sony from someone who wants to see Sony fail, I'm not a fanboy. I don't think they should get away with continuously reaming their fans up the ass for their continuous security breaches. I've also has several of my threads where I discussed at length how Sony tends to release a console with some specific features advertised and slowly chip away at them being closed by a certain moderator here who frankly has a low grasp of the language. Here's proof I don't hate Sony. I feel that this something that a lot of us need to see, it's also a fascinating read for anyone who had the displeasure of having to deal with their already very hard to find Sony Customer Support.

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

-

"In August, my PSN account was hacked and I found $500 in charges made on my card. Sony strings me along for a month, promising a full refund, but ultimately tells me that my only recourse is a chargeback. I issue the chargeback, but Sony disputes and inexplicably wins. Details inside." - serfbufo from Reddit

SUMMARY

For those of you who don't want to read the entire thing, here's a brief summary:

• An unknown attacker gains access to my PSN account and makes approximately $500 in charges to my debit card. Sony has a history of security breaches.
• Because of Sony's policy of banning accounts from which chargebacks arise, I try to get my money back from Sony without resorting to a chargeback, a process where a bank officially files fraudulent charges against a merchant.
• Every step of the way, Sony's representatives promise me my $500 back, yet I only ever see $230 of it.
• Eventually, Sony tells me that the remaining money cannot be refunded due to a ridiculous technicality. (They apparently cannot process refunds for banned accounts, and the attacker created a sub-account that they suggested I request be banned.)
• Sony's representative tells me that "literally" the only way to get my money back is a chargeback. I tell my bank to issue the chargeback.
• Sony disputes the chargeback using extremely questionable logic that doesn't even address the fraudulent nature of the original charges, and somehow wins.
• Currently, I am in the process of re-filing the claim, this time trying to make it very clear that it is a case of fraud, not whatever Sony claims it is.

Full title and source: In August, my PSN account was hacked and I found $500 in charges made on my card. Sony strings me along for a month, promising a full refund, but ultimately tells me that my only recourse is a chargeback. I issue the chargeback, but Sony disputes and inexplicably wins. Details inside.

Personally, when I tried to get a hand on Sony's Customer Support, I had to spend a lot of time trying to find it. There simply isn't any for my region, the Middle East. Despite Sony having sites up for my region, they didn't bother to put a Customer Support service for us. For them, it's just simple to do a Google-Translation quality translations websites to cash in on the region without getting any of the following services. For us, Arabs, we have to use the American Customer Support, which is gonna take a lot of your time to find. Even then, you get such a quality service of being able to tell the agent your problem, and then literally have them hang up on you, which is what happened to me.

Nintendo, on the other hand, when Mario Maker's online services didn't work out and the game was pretty much dead weight for me and I wanted the costs refunded, everything went buttery smooth. I told them I couldn't call them, and they simply set up a call back for me. After dealing with Sony's crap, I felt appreciated and I felt I had a voice which is a change from Sony's disgusting behavior.

It seems like, the only times Sony are willing to give you back what is rightfully yours, is when they get a ton of bad publicity from crap like this. Every time I read a thread like this, I get reminded why I removed my Credit Card info from my PSN account, and only resort to using Pre-paid codes from Amazon.

B-b-but dat Uncharted 4! And teh 1080 Pee!

It's a necessary risk you take with buying the best console this gen.

Everyone has their stories about why game companies from Xbox to Sega to Nintendo to Playstation to Activision to EA to Ubisoft to Steam to Origin to Blizzard to Capcom to Konami are bad. They call these companies up, the encounter doesn't go well, and then people feel they have to side up.

Reading a reddit forum post. I just can't be bothered to get worked up for the millions of posts by people with some beef with XYZ company each year.

It's anecdotal though and i'm not a fan of being manipulated by something I can't prove. Meh. If this is true, it sucks and I feel for the person. I hope it works out, sincerely. I have my own anecdotal stories about Walmart, DelTaco, Target, and gaming company things (Nintendo, Xbox, Sony, Sega, EA, Gamestop, etc) too. We all handle it differently.

Posting my opinion on something that may be a made up story with faux outrage takes too much time.

Sometimes these stories have elements of truth until inspected. A partial truth (like the ban was real, or there was a loss of money), as many of these forum gaming "stories" have to do with a protagonist that is completely innocent and the big bad wolf of a company is out to get them. Sometimes these stories are real. Other times they are crafty fanboy stories, or worse, some scummy hacker or no-good doer (gaming sharing gone wrong!!!!) were up to no good in their neighborhood and got caught hustling.

If it's a legit case, take it up with the courts. It looks though that the last update reveals he's getting his money back. Whether or not his story is as he claims, it's going to work out mostly due to pressure. One story we aren't hearing is the other side. What do they know and why were they working against him? It could be incompetence, but it could be something else. Either way, without hearing everything, I'm never eager to pass an early, ignorant judgement. Don't worry though, there are millions of others ready and willing.

@SolidTy: I don't understand why you are deflecting with "what if this is a lie" type of responses. This is such an odd deflection of criticism and of well recorded, and documented reports that Sony do indeed have a shitty way of handling compromised accounts as a result of their frequent security breaches. PSN have come under fire, consistently for it. Do you really find this hard to believe? If you do, then you're simply naive.

Edit: You seem to have edited your post, so it's only natural I do the same instead of double posting. As you seem to be very confused, and misguided. I suggest reading the thread in its entirety before you write it off, and instead of saying dumb things like "If it's a legit case, take it up with the courts." He goes through exactly why he wrote it. There's audio, and transcripts, he couldn't have made it up.

Not believing everything you read on the internet is pretty naive indeed!

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/reviews/credit-debit-atm-card-stolen/

The money is gone, dude.

Sony can't help you if you wasted your time with them rather then the bank.

Wow, you really jump to every conclusion you can, don't you? Notice I didn't call you any names or call you dumb for posting a thread based on another forum (I don't believe that is allowed as past threads were locked).

That explains why you made a thread based on another forum. It's naive to read every encounter on a forum and assume what you are reading is 100% legitimate. You'll learn that with time. We don't know IF there was editing done on his end to promote his side (doctoring), and we don't know the other variables involved including the companies concerns with his account. Maybe there was none, and this guy is a nice dude, but I'm not going to assume that like you have done.

You ask a sentence, and before I give an answer you assume my answer and then tell me my answer is wrong. I never answered. It's a peculiar way to converse.

I already stated that I have my own personal stories regarding bad customer service with Sony, Nintendo, and Xbox. Also other companies. I am not on the side of any company when it comes to the consumer. THAT SAID, I've also seen a lot of unscrupulous, sketchy people do bad things and have the companies pay for it. I am always going to approach these "stories" with skepticism that I gained with experience.

You seem to be very confused and misguided...and part of that is because you have assumed I have a stance one way or the other. I don't. I don't have enough information to have a stance. That was my point. My other point is these stories constantly pop up over and over. I have been reading "stories" like this regarding these gaming companies for at least two decades, since the 1990s. I have read far more if I count all the Gamestop, Walmart, Game, BestBuy, EB Games, Hollywood Video, Game Crazy, Target, Kmart, KFC, Starbucks, Taco Bell, McDonald's and other company stories. Sometimes they are real, sometimes they are fake.

Shitty things happen. What we don't know if the whole story, just this dude's side of it. If everything he said is true I hope he gets everything he is due. That said, I can't say with 100% confidence this dude is legit, I don't know him. I know that the customer service is pretty terrible across the board though from my own experience in calling these companies. I especially dislike when I'm talking to someone that is outsourced and I can't understand them. I had an hour long conversation with such an employee last year and it should have been 5-10 minute topes. It's another internet story and I'm not going to pretend to be outraged or troll.

Either way, it seems this reddit forumer is getting what he wants (unbanned and money back) so the case seems to be resolved.

@SolidTy: You kept on editing your post, you have at least edited that post of yours 5 times already. The original one was only a couple of lines that were

"It's anecdotal though and i'm not a fan of being manipulated by something I can't prove. Meh. If this is true, it sucks and I feel for you." Something like that, you didn't even realize it wasn't me. You didn't bother to even check the link, or read the quote. You absolutely put zero effort, and went down to the comment to try and discredit the post and imply that "I was lying." Think before you post next time.

it seems this reddit forumer is getting what he wants (unbanned and money back) so the case seems to be resolved.

By gamers FOR gamers, the SONY way to current gen 8 console leader.

Sony CS is pretty horrible, and they do seem to not really want to give refunds - even in obviously legitimate circumstances. Of course Sony isn't alone in this as far as digital storefronts go, but they are probably one of the worst. I think Microsoft is pretty bad too, to be fair.

They double billed me one year for PS+ - I had it as automatic renewal and they billed me twice (even though it only showed up as 12 months, a had two separate $49.99 charges on my account that were basically instantaneous, so it was obviously some kind of glitch). I told them about it - requested the refund that I was obviously due. It took forever to get it back, and when they finally gave me a refund - they were sure to let me know that "as a one time courtesy we will refund your account, but in the future no refunds will be issued".

I wanted to let them have it, as it was THEIR mistake that I was billed 2x - I was pretty pissed about the way they worded it - like they were doing me a favor after double billing me. But decided to leave well enough alone as it was probably just a script anyway.

I actually got a code for Free PS+ membership trial, and when I put the code in, it asked me for my CC. I was reluctant at first, but then I just put it and it tried to bill me, truly fucking scum.

@ultimateimp: Alright man.

I've said what I needed to say with my posts. On to the next thread.

Yes, that's what happened to me with Xbox Live and PS+ memberships in the past.

I don't like it either but it's been going on for years. You know something is up when they want your CC.

Yeah, MS does that too. Even when you sign up for trials, they are constantly putting you back to "automatic renewal". Sign up for 2 day live trail = automatic renewal back on. It's ridiculous. It's best to just not have a card saved at all, if you can avoid it.

Lately Amazon prime did the same thing. I *KNOW* I turned off automatic renewal, but somehow it automatically renewed anyway. I think when I downloaded the app to get a promo deal, downloading the app turns on auto renew. Fortunately with Amazon, it was an easy refund. I doubt I could get a refund from MS or Sony - hell Sony didn't even want to refund me when they double charged me LOL.

Sony probably has the worst customer service out of the big three (and really, in general, I can only think of Valve's customer service as being worse than their's), so I can't say I am surprised at this scumminess, though it does sadden me.

I've only had fraudulent charges through Sony (for around $50 or so), but the customer service was actually pretty helpful in my instance. That truly sucks for you, as it's a large amount of money to lose, but trivial enough where going to small-claims court is just a major pain in the ass.

Yeah, well. My post was a reply to your original post, so it doesn't apply anymore to your current one. I'm sorry for name-calling, I have nothing against you.

Account security should never be a "risk".

Really? I've had nothing but fast and great service from Valve the few times I've needed them. I bought some DLC for a game a few weeks ago and it was crazily overpriced for what it turned out to be. Asked for a refund, got it and got to keep the DLC. Thank you GabeN!

I've had good experiences with Valve the one time I ever needed their help- I'm just going by what everyone else has apparently gone through.

I've never had a problem with Sony's customer service, now MS on the other hand?..

It's funny to see how different peoples experience with customer service can be. My worst is Nintendo by a long shot. They gave me the runaround with the Wii years ago and then with a DS shortly after. I had an incredible interaction with Microsoft's customer service when getting the digital Halo 5 code from the CE switched over to a physical disk. I spoke with 2 different people who were very polite and helpful. They even expedited the shipment so I got it before release. They forgot to include some of the codes for some of the bonus content so they gave me some other hookups I'm not really gonna go in to too much detail about here. For an evil company that tries to screw over it's fanbase at every turn, they sure do have a great customer service group. Sony has been pretty good in the past too. No complaints but nothing to praise either.

$ony have officially earned their dollar sign and re-earned the mantle of the Cow. Good going $ony, finding every nook and cranny to rinse money out of. You have become just as corrupted as the competition now.

I personally enjoyed $ony forcing 10m GT5 owners to get GT6 by shutting down online servers. lol dem low blows.

Is this the 'Greatness' cows were waiting for xD.

EDIT: HAHAHAHA The low down dirty bastards at $ony needed to be threatened.

Update: I have contacted several news websites, such as Consumerist, Ars Technica, and Kotaku. Thanks to everyone for the kind words and advice. I would prefer to avoid engaging in further legal involvement unless it turns out that it cannot be helped.

Update 2: Sony has contacted me (I received an email from their Consumer Services department at 8:48pm EST) and we will try to reach a resolution tomorrow morning.

Update 3: After speaking with a Sony representative on the phone, my account has been unbanned and I was told that I would be refunded in full. I later received an email from Sony stating that the refund had been sent to my card. I called my bank (BoA) to ask about the credit to my card, but they were unable to confirm that the payment had been sent. I have notified Sony of this and am awaiting a response.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/3t78j6/in_august_my_psn_account_was_hacked_and_i_found/

@sts106mat: I don't support PS+, so it wasn't that for me. Back when I tried to use this code, I never had a PS+.

@HalcyonScarlet: 3. Is typical Sony. Tell you what you want to hear. Not do it and make up some phoney excuse.

i had this happen with my xbox 360 account a few years back. Someone got into it somehow and spent all my points on digital items for a fifa game.

I lost a bit over 100 dollars worth, Microsoft did eventually give me the points back i lost, but it took over a month and they didn't even apologize for the problem. I haven't given them a thing since. Stayed clear of their console and their windows 10, and any game they make. I trust sony just as much. I did buy a game off their store once but it was after their hack, so i used a credit card that was near expiration because i knew that they would eventually screw up again and all my credit card info could be taken.

You can't trust their crappy security. I'll never buy a digital game off Sony or M$ again. Imagine the troubles people have in the future with all the data collection Windows 10 is doing, and when the microsoft servers get hacked or some rogue employee decides to copy all peoples personal information and sell it. Theres so much that is going to happen that will go wrong in the future, just nobody is safe.

Is anyone surprised that a company on the brink of extinction would be such a bunch of heartless penny pinchers?

@SolidTy: difference is with a bank and credit card company involving stores like Target, Walmart, Best Buy, Toys R Us, Amazon, etc, is there are actions one can take to get their money back from fraudulent usage and there's no leverage really that they can use against someone the same way a company like say Steam, Sony, MS, Nintendo or whoever can by banning the account that hundreds and thousands of dollars of owned content can be stripped from their possession should they choose not to play by those rules... yes, true not just something isolated to Sony sure but I'd say with areas regarding digital rights isn't quite the same as dealing with stores that deal in tangible goods, consumers still have recourse in those circumstances but less so with areas where rights are tied to accounts with stringent rules kept in place to make sure those companies get to keep those stolen revenues by threatening to strip users of their content if they try to right the wrong made against them.

This is not the first time a story has come like this about Sony. Its a real shame that they care that little for their customers.

Looking at this thread: Cows gonna moo and get milked.

Not the experience I had with Sony at all. When I signed up for PSN, it came with a notification that automatic renewal was turned on and had to be manually disabled. So I immediately went and turned it off, 13 months later I got charged for another year of PSN. I had planned on letting my sub expire since all of the gaming I had been doing was single player, I simply didn't need a sub at that time. So I jumped on a support chat with them, asked them how could I get charged if auto-renew was turned off, and after about 5-10 mins of discussion I was issued a 'one-time' credit to my credit card(not to my wallet). Since then I have removed my cc from my psn account, I'll use a card from a retail store from now on.

TL;DR... My experience with Sony CS was mostly positive.

@lamprey263: I agree. Which is why I buy physical console every chance I get. That said, I have hundreds of digital games and it's scary to consider how tight the controls are with the console companies.

It's not Sonys fault someones account was broken into, either they are halfwits who can't secure their shit or used the same details on multiple sites and one of them got their megabits taken. It's up to the bank to repay these charges, not Sony. Not sure why anyone would focus on Sony instead of the bank. Only a moron would do that.

"Mario Maker's online services didn't work out and the game was pretty much dead weight for me and I wanted the costs refunded"

- lol no wonder the Nintendo service was so much better, you were dealing with a direct transaction and they could actually do something.... Oh dear god what is the world coming to?

You really need all the information....and not only part....to make an informed opinion.

@Yams1980: Microsoft security is brutal these days.

I signed up to EA access for a month. Somehow you can do this on the console, however to cancel you need to go online to cancel the automatic renewel.

I forgot my password. Put all my data in get text messages etc... With codes then I get an email saying I didn't pass the security check for my own account. I don't think anybody will get access to your account anymore.

@JohnF111:

Sony have a history of security breaches.

Maybe the bank should have been contracted initially. However Sony handled the entire situation poorly, lied, gave poor advice and made stuff up.