Consoles to blame for no KOTOR 3 - KOTOR 2 set it up

The ending (and indeed the story) of KOTOR 2 spoke of revan heading off into distant space telling his space pirate bro to hold the fort. KOTOR 3 would have you starting off as the exile after the end of KOTOR 2 tracking him down and meeting him. Sadly, it wasn't to be.

"The entire second game is littered with clues as to 'why didn't Revan destroy the infrastructure here? What was he trying to make sure was still intact? What did he/she see that no one else saw?' I thought that was giving a nice nod to 'wait a minute, Revan realises there's an even larger force at work here, and he's focusing his efforts on that and keeping the big picture in mind'. That was one thing - the idea that there was a larger, global conspiracy." That third game would cast you as "the Exile" and allow you to track Revan's path. "Whether you encounter him or not..." he pauses, wary of spoilers in case the game ever happens in the future. "The idea was that even before the 'modern day' Sith came into being in The Old Republic ... there were even more distant Sith Lords that were considered the true Sith, and the idea that they were still lurking out there in the galaxy waiting for a chance to strike, kind of like the Shadows in Babylon 5, I thought would be a cool finale for that Old Republic trilogy."

 The reason? As with most bad things in gaming.

"It could have had something to do with new consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360 - arriving and engines needing redoing, which would have been expensive and time consuming, points out Dan Spitzley, then senior programmer, now lead programmer at Obsidian. "That's a good point," concedes Avellone. "Thanks, consoles, thank you."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side

kotor 2's about a decade old.

"It could have had something to do with new consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360 - arriving and engines needing redoing, which would have been expensive and time consuming, points out Dan Spitzley, then senior programmer, now lead programmer at Obsidian. "That's a good point," concedes Avellone. "Thanks, consoles, thank you."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side

uninspiredcup

KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 are my two favorite games of all time, and KOTOR 3 would be amazing. But that is a weak bullshit argument.

To say that you can't make a game because your engine needs to be retooled is downright shameful. Does Obsidian not update their graphic engines, or maybe was that why KOTOR 2 had so many graphical issues?

I thought KOTOR 3 wasn't happening because of TORtanic, above all else. Kind of like how there isn't going to be a Warcraft 4 because of WoW.

No, obsidian is to blame.

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.

They released a terribly half assed game full of bugs, they just basically retreaded the exact same thing bioware did, they scrapped some of the main characters section and storyline, and they never released the entire ending for the game. It was a piss poor game from obsidian and the sales and recognition of the franchise suffered for it because that is what obsidian always does, kill a exsisting franchise that is handed to them.

Fallout new vegas was a god awful mess that caused a years worth of bad press. Instead of making more the franchise went into hibernation.

Dungeon siege 3 was a game no one liked and was terrible, thus the franchise died off.

Neverwinter nights 2 was inferior to everything bioware did before them and thus ended the franchise.

And when they tried to create their own IP it was shit canned and dumped in the bargain bin in less than a month with sega stating they wouldnt publish any sequels.

So you can blame the developer for making a game that ruined the chances for KOTOR3.

So, basically LucasArts continued to screw over Knights of the Old Republic.

First by rushing the second game out the door in time for Christmas leaving it unfinished and an unfortunate stain on Obsidian's record (like how Bethesda rushed out Fallout: New Vegas) and now this news.

LucasArts, on one hand I miss your games, but on another you really didn't do anything praise-worthy in recent years. Maybe it was good that Disney shut you down. Sure, Star Wars 1313 looked great but maybe someday another developer will return to it (I hope).

kotor 2's about a decade old.

uninspiredcup

No, obsidian is to blame.

 

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.

 

They released a terribly half assed game full of bugs, they just basically retreaded the exact same thing bioware did, they scrapped some of the main characters section and storyline, and they never released the entire ending for the game. It was a piss poor game from obsidian and the sales and recognition of the franchise suffered for it because that is what obsidian always does, kill a exsisting franchise that is handed to them.

 

Fallout new vegas was a god awful mess that caused a years worth of bad press. Instead of making more the franchise went into hibernation.

 

Dungeon siege 3 was a game no one liked and was terrible, thus the franchise died off.

 

Neverwinter nights 2 was inferior to everything bioware did before them and thus ended the franchise.

 

And when they tried to create their own IP it was shit canned and dumped in the bargain bin in less than a month with sega stating they wouldnt publish any sequels.

 

So you can blame the developer for making a game that ruined the chances for KOTOR3.

 

 

Gargus

And no one here even slightly thinks it's the $200 million to make MMO that killed KOTOR3?

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.Gargus

Because the sexbox 360 and PS3 not around. obv. That and console gamers had never played a DnD or proper (at least 1/4 close to a pc RPG) before.

It's very much like when consoles got Goldeneye or Halo. Even though they are average at best and barely work, it's a FPS on console. Massive overpraise. Pc master race however, not impressed.

I will still have hope that KOTOR 3 will be made one day.tagyhag

Why would you spoil KOTOR 2's ending in the first sentence of the thread?Blabadon

Could have just made it on a licensed engine.

Or their own, they would have had to retool it someday anyway. Crap excuse.

"It could have had something to do with new consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360 - arriving and engines needing redoing, which would have been expensive and time consuming, points out Dan Spitzley, then senior programmer, now lead programmer at Obsidian. "That's a good point," concedes Avellone. "Thanks, consoles, thank you."

Translation:
We suck at developing (any) engines so we blame our incompetence on consoles. We'd rather give you a 10 year old engine than put actual effort into a game, or invest 300 million into TORtanic.

[QUOTE="Blabadon"]Why would you spoil KOTOR 2's ending in the first sentence of the thread?bbkkristian

"It could have had something to do with new consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360 - arriving and engines needing redoing, which would have been expensive and time consuming, points out Dan Spitzley, then senior programmer, now lead programmer at Obsidian. "That's a good point," concedes Avellone. "Thanks, consoles, thank you."

Translation:
We suck at developing (any) engines so we blame our incompetence on consoles. We'd rather give you a 10 year old engine than put actual effort into a game, or invest 300 million into TORtanic.

DrTrafalgarLaw

No, obsidian is to blame.

 

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.

 

They released a terribly half assed game full of bugs, they just basically retreaded the exact same thing bioware did, they scrapped some of the main characters section and storyline, and they never released the entire ending for the game. It was a piss poor game from obsidian and the sales and recognition of the franchise suffered for it because that is what obsidian always does, kill a exsisting franchise that is handed to them.

 

Fallout new vegas was a god awful mess that caused a years worth of bad press. Instead of making more the franchise went into hibernation.

 

Dungeon siege 3 was a game no one liked and was terrible, thus the franchise died off.

 

Neverwinter nights 2 was inferior to everything bioware did before them and thus ended the franchise.

 

And when they tried to create their own IP it was shit canned and dumped in the bargain bin in less than a month with sega stating they wouldnt publish any sequels.

 

So you can blame the developer for making a game that ruined the chances for KOTOR3.

 

 

Gargus

Fallout New Vegas was not a "god awful mess". It was superior to its predecessor in just about every way conceivable.

Dungeon Siege 3 came out six years after the second, and it hasn't even been out two years, so clearly you're jumping the gun on any future entries.

I never played the original NWN, but NWN2 was often praised over the original for its story, dialogue, characters etc.

KotOR 2 was rushed to production by Lucasarts, not allowing Obsidian enough time to complete their own game. After which they were unable to talk about it due to NDA.

But clearly you have a bone to pick with Obsidian, so I doubt there was much point even posting this response.

So lets get this straight...

two games were created with a 3rd game a possilibity and the reason it wasn't made isn't because they couldn't put the game on the older consoles thus netting them money from all the fans that own said consoles...It was because they feared releasing those games on the older consoles and thus being overshadowed by the release of the newer consoles, and Lucas arts a mutli billion dollar company couldn't be knackered to create a new engine for the new consoles?

And this is the consoles fault how? 

Also the PC was still there, why not just release it on the PC?

Seems like a pretty piss poor excuse.

No, obsidian is to blame.

 

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.

 

They released a terribly half assed game full of bugs, they just basically retreaded the exact same thing bioware did, they scrapped some of the main characters section and storyline, and they never released the entire ending for the game. It was a piss poor game from obsidian and the sales and recognition of the franchise suffered for it because that is what obsidian always does, kill a exsisting franchise that is handed to them.

 

Fallout new vegas was a god awful mess that caused a years worth of bad press. Instead of making more the franchise went into hibernation.

 

Dungeon siege 3 was a game no one liked and was terrible, thus the franchise died off.

 

Neverwinter nights 2 was inferior to everything bioware did before them and thus ended the franchise.

 

And when they tried to create their own IP it was shit canned and dumped in the bargain bin in less than a month with sega stating they wouldnt publish any sequels.

 

So you can blame the developer for making a game that ruined the chances for KOTOR3.

 

 

Gargus

Whoa whoa whoa ...

KOTOR2 was awesome.

As was NWN2, far superior to NWN

Dungeon Siege 3 was trash though

Kinda doesn't explain why they decided to make a PC-only MMO instead...

Besides, KOTOR started on consoles. (i.e. on the original Xbox)

[QUOTE="Gargus"]

No, obsidian is to blame.

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.

They released a terribly half assed game full of bugs, they just basically retreaded the exact same thing bioware did, they scrapped some of the main characters section and storyline, and they never released the entire ending for the game. It was a piss poor game from obsidian and the sales and recognition of the franchise suffered for it because that is what obsidian always does, kill a exsisting franchise that is handed to them.

Fallout new vegas was a god awful mess that caused a years worth of bad press. Instead of making more the franchise went into hibernation.

Dungeon siege 3 was a game no one liked and was terrible, thus the franchise died off.

Neverwinter nights 2 was inferior to everything bioware did before them and thus ended the franchise.

And when they tried to create their own IP it was shit canned and dumped in the bargain bin in less than a month with sega stating they wouldnt publish any sequels.

So you can blame the developer for making a game that ruined the chances for KOTOR3.

dommeus

Fallout New Vegas was not a "god awful mess". It was superior to its predecessor in just about every way conceivable.

Dungeon Siege 3 came out six years after the second, and it hasn't even been out two years, so clearly you're jumping the gun on any future entries.

I never played the original NWN, but NWN2 was often praised over the original for its story, dialogue, characters etc.

KotOR 2 was rushed to production by Lucasarts, not allowing Obsidian enough time to complete their own game. After which they were unable to talk about it due to NDA.

But clearly you have a bone to pick with Obsidian, so I doubt there was much point even posting this response.

Yeah it was a god awful mess. Unless you are completely forgetting the fact it was damned near unplayable for the better part of a year due the insanely massive amounts of bugs. Which was illustrating my point of obsidian releasing buggy games since KOTOR2 was known for them plauging the game as well.

2 years and no one has heard even a peep out of a new dungeon siege from gas powered or obsidian. Yeah that series is done. You cant really argue this since your banking on the possibility that eventually someone somewhere might make a new dunegon siege. Technically if you wanted you could argue this 100 years from now because who knows, in 101 years someone might make a new one.

Neverwinter nights was a inferior version to be sure as you can see by the general consensus here on gamespots forums http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25996640

A developer blaming someone else for a bad product they put out? Come on, this happens constantly. Of course it isnt obsidians fault for making a crap shit turd of a game. Just like it isnt gearboxes fault duke nukem was terrible or aliens colonial marines, haze devs made a shit game and actually blamed the ps3 for the game being no fun, developers hate DRM and microtransaction it is all the fault of used games they are forced to do it, spec ops guys blame 2k for making them put multiplayer in the game thus making the game not as good as it could be, blah blah blah.

No I dont have a bone to pick with them, I simply do not like shit developers and they have proven time and time again that they are mediocre at best.

No loss KOTOR 2 sucked.

Thanks consoles for:

-Killing KOTOR 3

-CoD and CoD Clones

-DLC

-Movie Games

-Paying for online (lol wtf?) 

-Paying for advertisements (lmao XBL)

Thanks consoles for:

 

-Killing KOTOR 3

Jankarcop

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Thanks consoles for:

 

-Killing KOTOR 3

princeofshapeir

read the OP genius.

Thanks consoles for:

 

-Killing KOTOR 3

-CoD and CoD Clones

-DLC

-Movie Games

-Paying for online (lol wtf?) 

-Paying for advertisements (lmao XBL)

Jankarcop

CoD started on PC...

As did "movie games" and paying for online. (see most MMO RPGs)

[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"][QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

Thanks consoles for:

 

-Killing KOTOR 3

Jankarcop

read the OP genius.

[QUOTE="uninspiredcup"]

"It could have had something to do with new consoles - PS3 and Xbox 360 - arriving and engines needing redoing, which would have been expensive and time consuming, points out Dan Spitzley, then senior programmer, now lead programmer at Obsidian. "That's a good point," concedes Avellone. "Thanks, consoles, thank you."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side

R3FURBISHED

KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 are my two favorite games of all time, and KOTOR 3 would be amazing. But that is a weak bullshit argument.

To say that you can't make a game because your engine needs to be retooled is downright shameful. Does Obsidian not update their graphic engines, or maybe was that why KOTOR 2 had so many graphical issues?

I think there was no KOTOR 3 because they were hell bent on making that piece of shit MMO known as The Old Republic. They wanted a nickle n dime model more than creating another classic. 

[QUOTE="dommeus"]

[QUOTE="Gargus"]

No, obsidian is to blame.

 

If the consoles were to blame then why did KOTOR1 get such a huge amount of praise and sold really well on consoles? It did so well it warranted a sequel which was also on consoles.

 

They released a terribly half assed game full of bugs, they just basically retreaded the exact same thing bioware did, they scrapped some of the main characters section and storyline, and they never released the entire ending for the game. It was a piss poor game from obsidian and the sales and recognition of the franchise suffered for it because that is what obsidian always does, kill a exsisting franchise that is handed to them.

 

Fallout new vegas was a god awful mess that caused a years worth of bad press. Instead of making more the franchise went into hibernation.

 

Dungeon siege 3 was a game no one liked and was terrible, thus the franchise died off.

 

Neverwinter nights 2 was inferior to everything bioware did before them and thus ended the franchise.

 

And when they tried to create their own IP it was shit canned and dumped in the bargain bin in less than a month with sega stating they wouldnt publish any sequels.

 

So you can blame the developer for making a game that ruined the chances for KOTOR3.

 

 

Gargus

Fallout New Vegas was not a "god awful mess". It was superior to its predecessor in just about every way conceivable.

Dungeon Siege 3 came out six years after the second, and it hasn't even been out two years, so clearly you're jumping the gun on any future entries.

I never played the original NWN, but NWN2 was often praised over the original for its story, dialogue, characters etc.

KotOR 2 was rushed to production by Lucasarts, not allowing Obsidian enough time to complete their own game. After which they were unable to talk about it due to NDA.

But clearly you have a bone to pick with Obsidian, so I doubt there was much point even posting this response.

Yeah it was a god awful mess. Unless you are completely forgetting the fact it was damned near unplayable for the better part of a year due the insanely massive amounts of bugs. Which was illustrating my point of obsidian releasing buggy games since KOTOR2 was known for them plauging the game as well.

There were a few quest glitches, and some issues with slow down toward the end of the game, but most of the issues I had were patched out relatively quickly. Besides, nearly every game released on the Gamebryo engine is buggy to begin with (look at Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 3 etc). 

2 years and no one has heard even a peep out of a new dungeon siege from gas powered or obsidian. Yeah that series is done. You cant really argue this since your banking on the possibility that eventually someone somewhere might make a new dunegon siege. Technically if you wanted you could argue this 100 years from now because who knows, in 101 years someone might make a new one.

I think the fact you have blamed Obsidian for the death of the franchise is a little premature, that's all. Sure it wasn't a great game, but that doesn't mean the death of the franchise. Like I said, there was more than double the time between 2 and 3 than there has been since the third, so settle down. The "101 years" thing makes no sense.

Neverwinter nights was a inferior version to be sure as you can see by the general consensus here on gamespots forums http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/25996640

It may have been buggy, and required ridiculous specs on release, but like I said, it was often praised for its story, characters, dialogue etc. over the original.

A developer blaming someone else for a bad product they put out? Come on, this happens constantly. Of course it isnt obsidians fault for making a crap shit turd of a game. Just like it isnt gearboxes fault duke nukem was terrible or aliens colonial marines, haze devs made a shit game and actually blamed the ps3 for the game being no fun, developers hate DRM and microtransaction it is all the fault of used games they are forced to do it, spec ops guys blame 2k for making them put multiplayer in the game thus making the game not as good as it could be, blah blah blah

Thing is, I'm pretty sure Obsidian never spoke ill of Lucasarts, due to the NDA, and the fact they would likely face huge libel consequences if they did. I mean come on, if you've played KOTOR 2 then you MUST realise that it isn't complete. Do you honestly think Obsidian were like "f*ck finishing this game, I'm bored, let's go get drunk"? At the end of the day, their reputation suffered due to the games incomplete nature. Would they really shoot themselves in the foot like that, if a few months extra could have had the game out fully realised? 

No I dont have a bone to pick with them, I simply do not like shit developers and they have proven time and time again that they are mediocre at best.

So lets get this straight...

two games were created with a 3rd game a possilibity and the reason it wasn't made isn't because they couldn't put the game on the older consoles thus netting them money from all the fans that own said consoles...It was because they feared releasing those games on the older consoles and thus being overshadowed by the release of the newer consoles, and Lucas arts a mutli billion dollar company couldn't be knackered to create a new engine for the new consoles?

And this is the consoles fault how? 

WilliamRLBaker

I'm just curious as to why Bioware didn't do it instead. Sure, they were working on Mass Effect,  but I think KOTOR being a Star Wars licensed product would have don't much bigger numbers.

Sounds like they were just damn lazy and didnt want to make new shit for better looking games.

More like lazy ass devs are to blame.

The franchise died due to transition to crappy MMO genre. Elder Scrolls franchise bout to take a huge hit as well. Let it be a lesson to all developers: stop investing in one of the worst genres in gaming that is MMO.

I blame EA. The higherups don't know what people want. We didn't want an MMO, we didn't want MOH to turn into a weak COD clone and we didn't want a F2P C&C either.

The franchise died due to transition to crappy MMO genre. Elder Scrolls franchise bout to take a huge hit as well. Let it be a lesson to all developers: stop investing in one of the worst genres in gaming that is MMO.

Mr_BillGates

My thoughts exactly

My dear fellow, if ever a franchise was suited to MMO's, it's the Elder Scrolls. Also consoles are to blame. The developers themselfs have stated this. As developers have also blaimed them for the death of tactical shooters and a derpy derp of high quility strategy titles. Consoles.

My dear fellow, if ever a franchise was suited to MMO's, it's the Elder Scrolls. Also consoles are to blame. The developers themselfs have stated this. As developers have also blaimed them for the death of tactical shooters and a derpy derp of high quility strategy titles. Consoles.

uninspiredcup

This statement makes no sense.

Developers could still make hardcore tactical shooter and deep strategy games and make them only for PC...

Infact, some devs do that. (see ArmA and Total War series)

This topic is funny because 1st KoTOR was a console exclusive and 2nd the reason there is no KoTOR3 is TOR, a pc exclusive. 

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"][QUOTE="Blabadon"]Why would you spoil KOTOR 2's ending in the first sentence of the thread?Blabadon