Defending the PS4 Pro as a legit 4k console, if you don't think it's a 4k console then enter and get schooled!!!

TLDR; Scroll down

I keep reading this drama about the the PS4 Pro is not a legitimate 4k console because it doesn't run enough games in native 4k. Ok, I understand why that would be a concern and why the marketing may bother some but that's only because you're not thinking it through. There is one important FACT you are forgetting that will change your entire perspective on everything.

First of all, there is really no such thing as a 4k console or a 4k PC or a 4k anything. It doesn't exist, nothing can just run 4k now and going forward into the future. You can only have a 4k console if developers agree to keep graphics static at a certain point that allows for that. In other words, graphics that the PS4 Pro can run at 4k and they stay like that going forward. If graphics are going to get better while the hardware stays the same, very soon the hardware will no longer be good enough for 4k.

Ok since there is no such thing as 4k anything, then why call the PS4 Pro a 4k console? Because Sony has to market it and design it for the most popular displays on the market going forward. 4k televisions were wildly popular while 1080p tvs were being phased out when the PS4 Pro launched. Was Sony supposed to market their PS4 Pro to the dying 1080p technology?

Let's take a high end PC and pretend it was a console just to make my point. Let's say this PC is as high end as it gets so it has an i7 8700k CPU and a GTX 1080 ti GPU. For argument's sake let's say this is a legit 4k machine because it runs every game in 4k 60 even though sometimes you have to turn down settings to get there in some games.

A year from now when more demanding games are released, this monster high end PC will no longer be powerful enough to really play future games in 4k 60 fps. I'm talking about the top games of 2018, 2019 and going forward. Any machine, console or PC eventually becomes not powerful enough to run the top graphics AAA games at 4k 60 because graphics keep increasing dramatically.

A console has to be marketed at the HD television technology that is currently dominating the market because a console is tailored for the living room. When Sony released the PS4 Pro, it was the best console in the world for your 4k HDR television. 4k TVs were also taking off like crazy at the time so it would be absurd for Sony to market at dying 1080p televisions. Of course a year later it's not running that many games in 4k because of course, it's a year old console.

As games get more graphically intense and as a result more demanding on the hardware, the PS4 Pro will be running at lower and lower resolutions but so will the Xbox One X as well. And you know what, so will that PC you built in 2017.

It is dishonest to just say a high end PC is the best and runs everything 4k and great. That is true but you forgot to mention that you have to upgrade again this year when those demanding games are released so it can continue to run games in 4k 60. PC gamers conveniently don't factor that in. Instead they want to have their cake and it eat too. They argue that they have the best graphics ever 4k 60 always, now and in the future. While at the same time they argue that PCs are cheaper than consoles and you DON'T HAVE TO UPGRADE every year, PC GPUs last years just fine. You can't have both arguments, which is it guys?

A console is a fixed hardware so there is no upgrading until you upgrade with an entirely new console so you can't compare directly. The PS4 Pro was very powerful for the $$$ when it was released in 2016 and the Xbox One X was very powerful for the $$$ when it released last year. Both consoles will run games worse as time moves forward, deal with it. Eventually you will want to upgrade to a next gen console but that doesn't mean it was fraudulent to call the PS4 Pro a 4k console. That's exactly what it is and what it was targeted at.

TLDR;

The PS4 Pro at launch was a great console with a lot of power for $400 and yes was the best console you can buy for a 4k HDR television. Of course a year later and going forward it will run less and less games at 4k but that's only because games are getting more graphically intense and demanding on hardware. If graphics are going to get better while the hardware stays the same, very soon the hardware will no longer be good enough for 4k. Same is true about the Xbox One X, in a year it won't run maybe any top AAA games in native 4k and things will worsen as time goes by. That's why you have new consoles in the future to upgrade to, to catch up to the games that are getting better every day. It's ridiculous to claim the PS4 Pro is not a 4k console because new games are released later that are so demanding it can't run them even close to 4k. So what, that's what it's all about, get over it.

Oh, it's a round about way for TC to defend calling the X1X a true 4k console

Go blog it

PS4 is marketed as a Dynamic 4k console. Seems easy to comprehend. Xbox One X labels it as 4K Ultra HD console meaning:

"A game has a 2160p frame buffer output. That includes Native 4K, Checkerboarding, and Dynamic Resolution."

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2017/06/11/new-packaging-icons-xbox/

So both console are basically the same, just marketed differently.

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/explore/ps4-pro/?emcid=pa-co-97927

@joshrmeyer: PS4 is advertised as a full on 4k console in the uk, with no mention of dynamic or checkerboard

Wow. You take forever to say nothing.

Now:

1 month ago:

he thinks it makes his posts seem more intelligent

I guess it's true... It is a 4K display signal after all. Though my raspberry pi 3 can also output a 4K signal, so..... semantics....

@tdkmillsy: Guess they are using the same definition of 4k that MS uses(qoutes from Xbox website): "A game has a 2160p frame buffer output. That includes Native 4K, Checkerboarding, and Dynamic Resolution."

I haven't seen that commercial here in the U.S., but the website is straight forward about the labels. If a game has the label "4K PRO" it'll be in native 4k. There's 2 other labels that are used for dynamic 4k, and checkerboarding etc. Whereas xbox just uses one label for all 3.

@tdkmillsy said:

@joshrmeyer: PS4 is advertised as a full on 4k console in the uk, with no mention of dynamic or checkerboard

Well, it does play games in 4K.

And for TC, PS3 got its best looking games on its last legs, not in the beginning.

I don't know why we have to be so fixated on whether it's a "true" 4K console or not

We could just accept both are some of the strongest consoles money can buy and will play games at higher resolutions.

@metalboi: See, told y’all.

@MonsieurX said:

@tdkmillsy said:

@joshrmeyer: PS4 is advertised as a full on 4k console in the uk, with no mention of dynamic or checkerboard

Well, it does play games in 4K.

And for TC, PS3 got its best looking games on its last legs, not in the beginning.

So does the Mighty X and a lot more than the Pro does.

I still think it was a half thought out measure meant more to sell their own brand of premium TVs than it was about boosting game percormance. I also think it was pushed early to help power PSVR.

If they wanted a good mid-gen upgrade they should have waited. That being said, if it's superior to the base PS4 then I would probably have gotten that instead of the base PS4 I got, but I got mine too early.

But I agree with sentiment that native 4K is overblown at this time, I think upscaling and supersampling techniques could and should be used to free up resources to enhance visual fidelity.

TC has some valid points but this is system wars most people here base their arguments on a imaginary universe. And that's fine.

I had a 4k PC and a Pro, its not 4k. 1440p is more than enough though.

For some reason my posts have you following me around in every thread. Seriously, do you not have anything better to do? Do you see me following you around anywhere?

Real question... If you had the option in a game such as Halo 6 or Gears 5 at 4k checkerboarding 60 fps, ultra settings, or Native 4k 60 fps(would probably be 30 but let's go with 60), medium settings.... Which option would you take?

You made a thread, I posted in the thread, that's how the forum works

We don't, it's just marketing bullsh!t and that only fanboys obsess over.

I agree with you, the only thing we have is Sony's upgraded console in 2016 and Microsoft's upgraded console in 2017. 4k is just a marketing buzz word, nothing more. The developers will make the game look the best they can within the limits of each console's hardware knowing they will most likely be outputting to a 4k HDR display.

New Lems making old Lems look bad

@Xplode_games:

Your tl:dr section was too long. Nice attempt though, better luck next time.

? You’re only saying this so that you can call the XboneX a True 4K Console. We see through your bullshit OP. No, neither of them are true 4K consoles, they are FauxK machines. You want true Native 4K you still need a PC.

@Xplode_games: Dude, you need a TL;DR for your TL;DR.

Lol. This is it exactly. Literally the first thought that went through my head when I read the thread title.

? EXPOSED!!

? It's almost like he's trolling but the sad thing is that he's serious with this. He honestly thinks we can't see through his bullshit.

That's like calling triple 4k monitors running on PC a true 12k.

@joshrmeyer: I would always prefer higher settings rather than a higher rez

Holy shit lol. He just keeps coming back to be mocked.

@pandadropkicks: Same. And I'm not trying to compare the consoles. I'm taking each separately and seeing what can be squeezed out of them. If native 4k is going to be pushed, effects and performance will need to be sacrificed. Now talking about both consoles, what if a developer saw the Pro couldn't do native 4k and decided to do 1080p but checkboarding. Going by DF, it's virtually impossible to see the difference to the naked eye vs native 4k. But requires way less power. Same game, same developer... Sees the X can achieve native 4k but will have to lower the frame rate or settings down to say, medium, instead of high(Assume Pro uses high at 1080p checkerboard). You'll end up with 2 near identical looking games as far as resolution is concerned but the Pro would actually look and possible perform better, all because of a more efficient way of displaying resolution via checkerboarding. My point: native 4k is a total waste unless nothing is sacrificed to get there... Like indie games or sports games.

@joshrmeyer: I honestly agree. I'm scared that Xbox is only focusing on native 4k because it sounds good from a marketing perspective, when in reality, I would much rather have either checkerboarding or dynamic scaling with a higher framerate and higher settings

Even if it could render its games at 4K the "pro" doesn't have the necessary ram architecture to render the textures at 4K, unlike the mighty X.

Can anyone summon up that gif where the X vs PS4 is outed in this epic lightning strike performed by this Zeus-like character?

@tdkmillsy said:

@MonsieurX said:

@tdkmillsy said:

@joshrmeyer: PS4 is advertised as a full on 4k console in the uk, with no mention of dynamic or checkerboard

Well, it does play games in 4K.

And for TC, PS3 got its best looking games on its last legs, not in the beginning.

So does the Mighty X and a lot more than the Pro does.

Thanks for confirming it's a 4k machine

I don't care.

But the performance options are something for which I can advocate.

The ownage is strong here, you should start preparing your next failed thread

Your threads are awful. Even your TLDR is TLDR.

You have to realize that this is up to the developer. It's not that the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X can't run games in higher settings and fps at lower resolutions. The hardware can do whatever the developers program it to do, within the limitations of course. Right now they are emphasizing high resolutions and maybe sometimes this compromises the overall graphical image. I agree that this is a problem but I disagree that it is caused in any way by the hardware.

The problem if you think there is a problem is with what the developers have decided is the best way to optimize the graphics. I think they should give multiple options such as a high framerate mode and also a ultra settings mode at lower res on demanding games that would otherwise run at medium in 4k. All of this can be done, it's just up to the developers to give us those options.

On PC two people can have the exact same PC but one prefers high resolutions even if it means cutting down settings while another person may prefer ultra settings even if they have to reduce the resolution significantly to get there. On PC it's not a problem because you play how you want and I play how I want. On consoles, we can only play how the developer gives us the games. In other words, this is a console problem not a hardware problem per se.

I think this is a great discussion to have so that Microsoft and Sony can reach a solution with developers so that we as consumers get the most popular options in all of our games. The reason Microsoft and Sony are giving us so much resolution is because they are under the false belief that is what us gamers want. They are getting that from all of the years cows were using resolution to own xbox on forums such as these. You can't blame them really for thinking this is what we want but now it's time to start saying the truth so we can actually get what we really want.

Yep, sadly.

Having said that, everyone knows that the X is much more of a 4k console than the Pro. Enough said.

lol

Wrong. Both the Pro and the X are 4K consoles. The only way you can get the benefit from either console is to have it hooked up to a 4K TV which makes them BOTH 4k consoles. There is not such thing as 1440P or 1800P TVs so to use the consoles properly you need a 4K TV. Pretty damn simple people!

I really do not understand why you people can't figure out this very simple concept. BTW both consoles are awesome!

@Xplode_games: Yeah you pretty much said what I was trying to say. The point I was getting at though was with MS pushing 4k so much and their machine more capable of hitting it, developers may choose to go that route. Which without options could make the gameplay experience actually worse than if try would of went with a different method, like checkerboarding. Sony doesn't seem to be pushing for native as much. I've also read that the Pro was developed with checkerboarding in mind. See where I'm getting at? Sometimes the thing you strive for(resolution in this case) is actually a crutch. Hopefully developers continue to do what's best for the game and MS first party will focus less on native 4k and just on better graphics and performance.

@pandadropkicks: Kinda backfired on MS. PS4 did 1080p on nearly all games without a problem with performance aside from a few games that should have probably been 900p. I think MS was trying to do that with 4k but it just isn't going to happen.

@jahnee: What with people on this site using the adjective "mighty" before X all the time? Lol. Reminds me of "Nintendo" and "Super Nintendo"... Clearly two different consoles. An adjective isn't needed everytime. As I told someone else... The mighty mouse console lol.