Developers are abandoning better franchises for inferior ones, NIOH and ghost of Tsushima rant

Both are recent new IP from studios that were known for other WAAY BETTER franchises.

SP created the amazing, super fun and explosive infamous. This franchise was something else, and to me is a very unique experience that, to this date, remains a reason to own ps4 imo. Now lets look at Ghost of Tsushima, visually stunning, probably the prettiest game on Sony floor yesterday but God, gameplay looks ass, very clunky and cinematic beyond fun, not sure why people are hyping it for. I am super disappointed with this one.

Team ninja are known for Ninja gaiden, probably the best action adventure/hack and slash game created in past 20 years. Ninja gaiden 2 and 3 were massive let down, not because gameplay but because everything around it, mainly balance issues and unimaginative level design. Nioh is the total opposite, everything about screams quality aside from slow and clunky gameplay. We have been getting more and more of dark soul clones and abandoned the really entertaining games. I cant even fathom how amazing it is if we get a new ninja gaiden game with Nioh quality setting.

Two major let down that really speaks volume about how developers think these days. Abandon fast, explosive and fun gameplay for slowed, more tactical and visually stunning games. The market is getting over saturated and only losers are gamers.

Why do you assume SP won't make another Infamous?

And blame KOEI Tecmo for Nioh 2, not Team Ninja.

I liked Nioh alot but id rather see another Ninja Gaiden... outside of that i disagree with you. Ghost of Tsushima looks absolutely amazing to me. The combat was brutal and it reminded me of a mix of Nioh and Tenchu with insane visuals. Why have them make another Infamous when Insomniac is making Spiderman... it makes no sense.

Infamous had three full games plus a couple of DLC expansions, and while great, it's definitely time for something new.

Ninja Gaiden was ran into the freakin' ground, was utter garbage by the end, good riddance.

I am very happy with the new IPs from both these devs. Yet to play Nioh but heard nothing but good things, and Ghosts of Tsushima was my "surprise" game of E3, looks exceptional!

It isn't developers pushing for these game designs but the whiny gamers in forums that shit on everything. Souls like games seemed like a safe alternative to making a Ninja Gaiden game people might make a fit about. Nioh also presented an opportunity to rehabilitate Team Ninja's image after Itagaki's departure, which took a hit after NG3 and Metroid Other M. And I actually liked Metroid Other M, seems the biggest things people were hung up on were outside their control, like the story aspect

I'm hoping DMC5 does really well and that its success leads to more hack and slash games ..... like a new Ninja Gaiden.

So you want to pigeonhole developers to making games from the same IP over and over ad infinite? No bueno, G.I. Jose.

I really don’t think that’s a fair statement. Gamers continually say that they want new IP’s. I loved Ninja Gaiden, never played the third one, however that third game got a pretty poor reception so I can’t blame them for at least taking a break from it. It’s great and all to want to see a franchise that one enjoys get more games but sometimes developers just simply might not have a creative idea to push it forward.

As for Infamous I just never felt that it was all that great of a franchise. I played the first one and had fun with it but just never really felt all that interested in keeping up with the games. I am way more interested in Ghosts of Tsushima then I’ve ever been in Infamous.

Nioh is one of the best games I've ever played. IMO it's better than Ninja Gaiden, funny how opinions work eh?

Why would they keep doind the same franchises over and over? They are not Nintendo.

Always thought Infamous sucked tbh. Ghost of Tsushima is probably my 2nd most anticipated game right now after RDR2 and easily the best looking game SP has ever come up with.

Nioh is awesome. never played Ninja Gaiden though.

Infamous is not that great of a series, Ghost looks more interesting to me

While extremely loud and whingey, we aren't a large group in the grand scheme of things. COD would have died a decade ago if forums affected things.

I say give us both. Ninja Gaiden AND Nioh.

Are devs no allowed to switch it up?

My concern is their SP new franchise doesn't look as fun/explosive as Infamous.

I am praying for this. This and Bayonetta 3 are probably the last 2 of their kind

@2mrw: So it fails and we go back to Infamous. What's the problem?

I think they really never bothered with making a super good NG game after NGB. There too many areas they could improve upon and the flaws are glaringly clear imo.

Infamous 1 was only the tip of the iceberg, 2 and 2nd son are way more open and fun.

They are, point is this change doesn't look positive imo.

It will only take 6 years and major damage to their reputation ... sure lets go for it.

Well dude you got no other option.

Most people didn't like Second Son compared to the old games.

Can anyone find this E3 floor demo of Tsushima at all?

That's fair. But we're seeing more IPs enter the market, and more than that, more quality IPs. I can't speak for GoT, as it isn't out, but Nioh was a great addition to the types of game that From has mostly been praised for.

@2mrw: Ninja Gaiden II was an excellent game in my opinion however it just needed a bit more time to refine a few elements in its gameplay regarding certain enemies. The game itself though was fantastic. I think it was rushed a little bit because of all the stuff going on behind the scenes with Itagaki and management.

As for Infamous I just never felt compelled enough to want to play the following games, the first one pretty much satisfied me enough to be done with it.

Nioh is a proven hit. TeamNinja helped KOEI finished the project they started for ps3. Ghost of Tsushima we still need to learn more about it cause sony's definition of deep dive is a scripted cut or vertical slice. No body went up there to talk about the mechanics. Could be a dud or could bring back those back in the days ps2 gems "Way of The Samurai". Infamous is done man move on.

The fighting mechanics seemed to be where GoT fell apart. There were flashy "finishers," but in terms of the run up to the fight it seemed rather limited. It seems to live-and-die on the fight mechanics from the presentation, so hopefully we see more.

Yeah but one could speculate there some sort stance timing and counter going on. And the dual at the end of the mission turned into a 3d fighting game that sort of thing. Or as you say none of that matter it was just as simple as it looked lol. Other than that we know its an open world game and nobody got up there to talk about it. The fighting does not have to be deep or good for people to like games in this forum. It is why I say lets hear more about the damn game. Smash bros was a deep dive this was not a deep dive.

If it took cues from Nioh, with stances being impactful to gameplay, then holy shit... That would be amazing. If it were a Tenchu homage, then holy shit... As it stands, there are too many questions. At least it laid the groundworks for what could be an excellent game.

Plus Sucker Punch are very capable devs.

I have faith SP will deliver with Ghosts. I liked what I saw and am going to keep looking for more of it.

Ninja Gaiden stopped being really great once Itagaki left imo. 3 was meh. Not bad but nowhere near the level of the first and a good drop from the second. Nioh was so great to me because they brought some of that combat flash and fluidity to the Souls formula. As much as I enjoyed souls games the combat is just swing my weapon like a hack. Nioh gave me the sense I am a badass along with the punishing combat. I'm all in for Nioh2.

I found with Nioh that you could be more on the offensive due to the ability to switch stances. Though I did find the standard enemies to be more of an annoyance. With Dark Souls, you had to wait to NG+ or ++ to really just not give a shit. Just run around and smash everyone with your biggest weapon.

I never got + LOL I move on to another game so easily. I like the idea of needing to be vigilant in these types of games but I like combos and the look of a trained combatant. In souls, whether I choose Knight or any other class to start, everyone just hacks the same way with their weapon. The combat is only compelling because of the damage one hit against causes. If the enemies were doing pittance with each hit like in GoW 2005? Game wouldn't be all that fun.

lol, i'm largely the same, but my bro likes them and always drags me back. He's getting married in a month, but just got a wicked Artorias tattoo on his shoulder. I've never been open about gaming heavily, but I was seriously jealous.

Definitely true... Most people just go same build. I'm usually Dex/Str, so usually swords/spears. Though i've seen some amazing Int/Fth builds. Most PVP I see are heavy Str builds.

WTF?

GoT is my game of Sony's conference. And I thought the general consensus for Infamous is good, but nothing special.

@lundy86_4: Well builds are of course going to play a role. But I was referring mostly to the visually basic attacking. Its weak in Souls games. I prefer the fact Nioh made the stances and the actual moves can be seen in Kendo.

@cainetao11: Ohhh, I gotcha. Yeah, that is really cool. From is really limited in their animation work. There are specific movesets for weapons, but all weapons fall within a category and act largely the same.

Told my bro about Nioh 2 being announced and he almost died.

Really ?! ... I thought 2nd son was amazing, it came up with new flaws but I really enjoyed it, and the 1st light DLC Horde mode was a spot on .... it did show massive potential to build on.

I do not have any other option, that's why I am ranting ..lol

It is a shame that fast paced games are losing ground to the slower, clunckier ones .... new IPs are great, Horizon is a prime example, but it did look great from day one and it was unique. Nioh and GoT are just a twist on demon soul formula.

I have no idea where I was going with that now. Proceed to ignore. I may have been totally wrong lol.

Very true, though like @cainetao11 and I were saying above, Nioh definitely opened the DS formula to wider varieties of play. IMO, it's now faster and more offensive as opposed to DS with the heavily defensive play. Most of DS new game, I spend running around corners with my shield raised. In terms of missing out on good old fast-paced hack 'n' slash, it does suck. At least we got Bayonetta 1 & 2 and now a new DMC in the works. For what that's worth.

What I liked about GoT, is that it drew from more difficult games like DS and Nioh, but also from older games like Tenchu... The ability to plan your attack. Though, we did basically see nothing.

To be honest Sucker Punch track record is what makes me still interested to see more. But things look concerning as of now, and I feel that my first impressions are usually a spot on in terms of what I will really enjoy or not.

Nioh does borrow a bit from the souls games but it does more to be original in itself. The fact it uses the face buttons for combat makes it feel like an old game like Ninja gaiden or Onimusha.

Hope they focus more on variety in levels this time.

As for Ghost, i am sold on it like crazy. That scene with the red tree and fire was great and i want to see more of it.

My biggest gripe was the one-on-one fighting, even though there was a group of enemies which is a classic kung-fu action movie cliche. I thought the building section was pretty cool, though the grappling and climbing seemed a little light and wonky.

I'm on the fence, though the one-on-one at the end in the petals looks f*cking gorgeous.

@2mrw: Well, it was smaller, less enemy variety and lame powers. Plus it was at the time that everyone hated the small moral choices it gave. Notice how Fallout 4 and ME Andromeda don't have those?

I agree that devs have been abandoning fast pace explosive action games. However, I am MUCH more excited for Ghost of Tsushima than Infamous.

I totally knowledge these issues. I still think using the powers was an absolute blast, especially in the fighting arena.

Fair enough. Wait and see then, but not super optimistic.

@2mrw: Oh for sure. Second Son and Last Light are my most favorite in the series just for how well they move around. Granted my only problem is in SS how late you get TV and concrete. By the time i got TV i had cleared all the islands of stuff to do and concrete i never used cause it is way limited. They should have just given us smoke, the best power of them all.

Game Developers can't be doing the same old shit every time, you gotta change up the formula and doing something new can bring improvements to the developers. Like what Guerrilla Games did from leaving Killzone franchise to start something new like Horizon, it turn out to be an awesome game!

Really it's like banging the same woman 50 times. That shit get's old. Change is good :)

Well, I'm for one that happy that they willing take a break and try new IPs

This.

Are we arguing in favor of sequelitis?

FACTS...The Witcher 3 if proof of this statement!

Ghost of Tsushima looks cluncky? did you even watch the game play footage? its one of the few games in existence that makes me consider the idea of getting a PS4, a huge step up from anything we have seen so far, including GOW and TLOU.

I understand loving Infamous etc....

But some times it's good for Devs to branch out and try different things.

If Naughty Dogs just stuck to platformers from their Crash Bandicoot days we would've never got the master pieces that are Last of Us and Uncharted

If Guerrilla Games just stuck to FPS then we wouldn't have gotten the master piece that was Horizon Zero Dawn

Insomniac is branching out and trying something different than their M.O with spiderman

So I like the fact that we are getting new IPs and hopefully they are successful enough to give something different than the same old same old franchise.