Did the PS2 have the best 3D platformers of all time?

I'm just thinking back to Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank and the Sly series. I believe all of them were exclusive to Sony and honestly, outside of the grand daddy Mario 64, what has Nintendo done in the realm of 3D platforming since? Minus that one game and none of Nintendo's properties in the genre touch what Sony was able to do for about 5 or 6 years.

Each one of those series' had a unique look, sound, game design and added something new to an ageing and at that time, repetitive genre. All Nintendo mustered up in that generation was Mario Sunshine. Yes, since then we've had Mario Galaxy 1/2 which I hold to be really good games but I don't feel they hold up to be as unique and innovation as the original JnD, Ratchet and Clank or even Sly Cooper.

Mario Galaxy 2 is better than Mario 64, and Galaxy 1 better than any 3d platformer outside Nintendo. So IMO, no.

lol

To me, Ps2 era was extremely disappointing in the 3D platformer genre. Fantastic game series like Spyro or Crash became horrible, great games like Pandemonium, Croc or Gex disappeared. Sure the Ps1 era had horrible games like Bubsy 3D, but it had so many fantastic games. And that's only talking about Ps, on the N64 there were so many fantastic 3D platformers compare dto the Gamecube and the Dreamcast was still around, having the only good 3D Sonic games on it.

They actually did have some of them. Since lets face it, other than Mario what 3D platformers are that great?

@soul_starter:

No, Uncharted wasn't released on ps2.

@bobrossperm:

Metroid, Donkey Kong Country

Not a platformer.

Though even if you stretched this one as far as you could, it would be a shitty platformer.

Not a platformer and not a 3d platformer.

You could stretch the definition of some older Metroid games as action platformers, but still 2d.

DKC hasn't had a 3d platformer since N64 and it sucked balls.

That's if you count Metroid Prime as a 3D platformer the same way Mario is. DKC is 2D.

@phbz:

Sure Mario Galaxy is a great platformer but not the best. Unless you only like kiddy games, there are plenty of great platformers out there. Crash, Jak and Daxter, Tomb Raider, Uncharted, God of War, Sonic.... Some gamers prefer more mature platformers.

@ConanTheStoner:

Oh you meant 3D platformers!!! Never mind.

And even if you did make that leap (which would be silly) Metroid Prime would be a shitty platformer if judged solely on its platforming merits.

Good to see you back around btw.

@ConanTheStoner:

Metroid Prime was actually a really good platformer for an fps. It incorporates a good amount of platforming aspects from the 2D Metroid games. It's an fps Metroid in every aspect.

Still not platformers lol.

I don't think you know much about this genre.

Cool so I guess Doom 4 is also a platformer.

While we're at it, lets throw in the Souls games too.

@killered3: As 37yo gamer I tend not to care how mature a game makes me feel, I prefer to go by how good are the gameplay and level design. And in my opinion those 3 games are at the very top of the 3d hierarchy.

To put Unchartered competing against a 3d Mario as best platformer sounds crazy to me. But to each its own.

No. Because Jak's sequels were kind of lame, the first game is good. Ratchet games were fun, Sly is fine. I'd take Mario 64 and Banjo over em though, and the Galaxy games are much better. Although the PS2 (like the other systems) did get Sands of Time, and Sands of Time is dope.

Poor quality platforming in Uncharted aside, it's not even an opinion "to each his own" thing.

The Uncharted games just aren't platformers lol. Might was well call them beat em ups because they have melee attacks, or stealth games because you can occasionally sneak.

He's going for an incredibly loose definition here.

Why thanks alot! good to be back. And yeah, Metroid Prime certainly shines in it's overall design rather than it's platforming. Though i will say Super Metroid is a really good playing 2D platformer, so there's a history ofg the franchise excelling in that department.

Yeah, some games straddle that action platformer line well, 2d Metroid and Castlevania both put forth some good examples.

But stacking up to the best pure platforming games in platforming chops, not so much.

Not even close, even for its own generation. The GameCube was a much better console for 3D platformers. Along with Mario Sunshine, the GameCube also had Sonic Adventure 1-2 and the better versions of Prince of Persia 1-3.

Hardly anything in the genre reaches Mario's fluidity though other than something like Super Meat Boy or Ori and The Blind Forest. Those are the best in the genre when it comes to the playing. And when you start looking into the 3D platformer genre, it's even more bleak. Jak and Daxter is actually quite high up that bill, so is Ratchet and Clank. But they are a far cry from Mario at it's best.

There were some half decent 3D platformers on PS2, but none of them touch the coat tails of Super Mario Galaxy 2 or Super Mario 3D World. Those are the true champions of the genre in my opinion.

In any case, 2D platformers still remain superior.

Blinx is good as almost any platformer on the PS2.

@ConanTheStoner:

What do you consider a platformer? It sounds like we're on different perspectives.

Oh my lord. This is adorable.

No.

I bought the Ratchet & Something remake for my PS4 and I didn't even finish it. The design in 64 alone is years ahead. And with Galaxy and 3D world being so full of innovative designs, just no.

The only 3D platforming game that came somewhat close to being as enjoyable as a Nintendo 3D platformer for me was Banjo Kazooie. And even that was clearly inferior but still very enjoyable despite its flaws.

No, we're trying to compare good platformers fam.

Banjo & Tooie say....

Thread/ :P

All great games. The PS2 had a great collection of 3D action platformers.

I like the N64 and Wii for platformers both 2D and 3D, personally. Titles like Mario 64, Conker, Banjo Kazooie 1/2 with titles such as Mario 64 offering more of a precision platforming experience. The Wii has some great titles too such as Mario Galaxy 1/2, De Blob 1/2 and Sonic Colors.

I guess it depends what kind of platformers you are into, though the 3D platformers mentioned by soul_starter tend to be more action oriented platforming games with challenges centered around some additional mechanic such as shooting or stealth rather than precision platformers like the Mario titles.

The Mario Galaxy series is one of the best 3D purely platforming games released for me. It has hints of action but it's primarily about judging distances and jumping tricky gaps.

@ConanTheStoner:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_game

If this is the definition of platforming then all of the games I mentioned are well within the genre. Well technically they would be action platformers.

@killered3:

I guess the difference is the weight and importance of this mechanic: whether or not it is utilized as the primary challenge.

Take, for example Uncharted. If we consider it a platforming game; it's close to on-rails with most of the challenge automated and you just having to point in the direction. (Though I am to understand U4 is slightly more involved.)

A game more commonly considered platforming puts guiding the character over a gap as its PRIMARY challenge; elements of this challenge include knowledge of the game's physics and judging distances as well as reflexes.

I would consider something like Megaman or Ratchet and Clank to be action platformers as the challenge is divided alongside primary challenges found in other genres, which the article you have linked mentions. Shooting enemies, a collection of weapons and ammo are as core to the game-loop as jumping gaps. Uncharted though? As the platforming is so heavily outweighed by other elements and is barely part of the core challenge: I would only see it as a difference in kind (A break from the core mechanics) rather than a significant part of the core challenge.

Ocarina of Time has shooting with a bow in first person, but I wouldn't say Ocarina of Time is a first person shooter.

Another great example is Metroid Prime. There is plenty of debate whether or not it's a FPS game, though if you look at the Wiki page it is down as a 'First Person Action Adventure' game. This is because the core challenge comes from puzzle solving and exploring just as much as it does from shooting. In fact, the shooting is targeted for you in that game, making it really not the primary challenge.

@KungfuKitten:

Mario 64 years ahead? Man, the game design was simple as ****! You had a large level, goals that unlock stars and things to jump on. There were alot less things to jump on than the 2D games.

@killered3:

The only 3D platformer before Mario 64 was Jumping Flash.

Mario 64 may appear simple but it completely set the standard for the genre that followed it, which is not a simple thing to do by any means.

Also the function of enemy placement in 2D games in way different than 3D games. Enemies play a completely different role.

@jumpaction:

That just puts platforming as nonexistent because modern games are more complex. For one thing, no Uncharted level in any game was a straight line. You have to free climb mountains, buildings, clear gaps, climb and jump your way to the next firefight. The old Tomb Raiders were ALL about jumping platforms, judging distances and planning jumps. Even God of War has this! Sure, it's not the only challenge you face but that's because modern games have more than one basic element. As great as the Mario Galaxies are, Nintendo is stuck in the past.

@jumpaction: good explanation, it's one you shouldn't have had to make but it explains it.

Uncharted is not a platformer lol

@killered3:

I don't agree. 3D platformers still exist. (Mario, Ratchet and Clank, Tearaway) and the upcoming Yooka-Laylee are all examples of some genre of platformer (action, adventure or just pure).

The climbing that I experienced in Uncharted 2 was largely an automated affair. You move along a ledge until you can't move any further. The character stops immediately. You do not fall. You move the stick forward, you tap jump. You make the jump.

That to me is not a platforming challenge as all the hard work of judging the distance is done for you. You nearly cannot fail with an indicator that you made the right decision evident before you made the jump as Drake moves his hand out to the oncoming ledge to show there is another ledge he can grab onto. Because all the challenge is done for you, I would not say it is a platforming game. To me, it's a third person shooter first with action/adventure elements included in light puzzles.

I haven't played it but I understand Uncharted 4 has more involved platforming elements but I heard they are still fairly lightweight with most of the platforming still that sort of automated style.

The same reasons The Legend of Zelda aren't considered platformers are the same reason the Uncharted series isn't considered a platformer. Although they include elements that exist in platforming games, it is by no means an integral part of the challenge.

Again, I wouldn't call Mario a shooter just because he shoots fireballs.

As pointed out in this thread already, Nintendo has the best platformers of all time and a lot of them. Sony had some back in the day but not on the level of Ninty.

That's not enough games though to be considered.

You can play Mario Galaxy 1&2 on the PS2? Mario 64 too?

Well damn. The King just became mightier.

I think N64 and PS2 had the best 3d platformers.

N64: Rayman 2, B&K, Mario 64, Conker, Gex

PS2: J&D, Psychonauts, R&C games, Rayman Rev

PS3 also had a bunch of great R&C games.

Hah. If that's a platformer (it's not) it's the slowest and most boring platformer..... 'Here let me die a few times while jumping to this rock. Woo made it *cut-scene*'

Mario Galaxy 2 is the best 3d platformer of all time... if it doesnt have this game in its line up, it can not be called the best of all time for this genre.

Two games though aren't really a compelling argument.

GD Thank You! This is actually the smartest person in here.

Can we not pretend that Jax, R&C, whatever are in the same league as Mario? I like the games too. I REALLY liked a lot of entries in the Crash series also. There's also several decent entries in the Croc, Gex, Bug!, Tak, and Spyro series' as well as two of my favorites that will not likely ever get any mention; Ape Escape & Pac-Man/Ghostly Adventures, but c'mon. They just don't hold a candle to the Mario 3D games. Even as much hate as Sunshine gets from people who never played it, is still better than a lot of games in the aforementioned series'.

AND...as stated...2D owns. It's seriously not even close.

Super Mario Galaxy 2 by itself has assured Mario has placed the lock and key on the genre for quite a while now. There's not a single Sony platformer which comes remotely close to it.

The f*ck?

@charizard1605:

Right?

The opening post is even halfway reasonable in that, while preposterous, it at least attempts some actual level of discourse and discussion, I can't hold that up against the guy (although then he says that MG1 and 2 don't hold up to Ratchet and Clank and I just don't know what to say).

The other dude in the thread, though, I'm not actually sure he understands what a platformer is lol.

Well first of all Jak 2 and 3 were shit and barely platformers. Sly 1 and 2 were good though and the Ratchet trilogy is awesome.

@jumpaction:

No, they pretty much are dead because the newer games are implementing more than just jumping from point to point. Even Ratchet and Clank, TearaWay and LittleBigPlanet are so much more than what your strict idea of a platformer entails.

I'm not sure what you mean by automated platforming with Uncharted though. Sure it's very strong on scripted events but if you play the game, you'll encounter more than enough situations where you have to figure your out your own path. This exaggerated idea that Uncharted is just a point A to B with little effort is a bullshit rumor and entirely inaccurate.

Sly 2 is an awesome game and my favorite 3D platformer on PS2, but it doesn't compete with Nintendo's best, Super Mario 64. Ratchet and Clank is also good but I wouldn't put it in the same league of games like Banjo Kazooie, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Super Mario Sunshine.