different perspectives on business from Sony and Microsoft fan base(in response)

Let me preficit this by saying BOTH Xbox 360 and PS3 are great consoles, with a long list of great games. Both consoles have many options that offer their customers a wide verity of good services. Thus, neither console is inthemselves better than the other, in respects to games.  

Sony and Microsoft have diverged in their approach to selling the console and services to its fan base. Both companies are in business and the games industry to make a profit. They go about it in a different way, each trying to make profits. 

From the prospective of the fan base it seems that Sony's base does not take much in the way of total money willing to give the company, while microsoft fan base seems eager to give microsoft what ever price microsoft demands. 

Sony is taking the high road and that they aren't in it for the money, if you think this you are more delusional than Sony thinking they could buy Apple. :lol: 

get real, this is a business and every corporation involved is doing it solely for profit, and will strategize their efforts based on the market.

I've got news - If MS goes "casual" and makes more money than Sony this generation, guess what Sony is doing NEXT generation.  

THE_Rob_Himself

1. http://www.gamespot.com/news/300-xbox-360-spring-bundle-revealed-6404674 (the cost of the console $299.99 with ONE month free LIVE LOL :shock: )
2. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/10/11/microsoft-now-selling-320-gb-hard-drive-separately.aspx (wow bigger HDD but not included! :lol: )
3. http://n4g.com/news/976706/each-xbox-360-sold-nets-microsoft-115-in-profits ( wow those profits are just rolling in and peope just love giving microfost their money)
4. http://www.techspot.com/news/23612-microsoft-makes-tiny-profit-on-xbox-360-hardware.html (microsoft has been making a profit for a while now on each console sold ;) )
5. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/05/hardware-analysis-suggests-the-xbox-360-hdd-is-overpriced/ (But people like to OVERPAY microsoft :o :D )
6. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368510,00.asp (increase in live gold) (Live is SO good with its Ads and now with commercials that they HAVE to raise the price :) )
7. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/13/1924238/the-ugly-profitable-details-about-xbox-live-advertising  (still people love for microsfot to make money, and microsoft goes ABOVE AND BEYOND to make money. :cry: :shock: )
8. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116941-TV-Style-Commercials-Coming-to-Xbox-Live ;)  (yes this is good for gaming...Why dont Sony, and valve do the same?)
9. http://gamerlimit.com/2009/11/microsoft-sued-for-blocking-third-party-memory-cards/ (microsoft is over charging for memory cards and blocks out Cheaper Choice)
10. http://www.industrygamers.com/news/xbox-360-red-ring-of-death-abating/  (rate of failures) :cool:
11. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Lawsuit,news-2779.html ("Apparently, the company knew about the problem as far back as November 2005.")
12. http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2003776998_xbox06.html ("The cost of the warranty program should not keep the company's Xbox unit... rom turning a profit..." Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell said.
13. http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=737026&postcount=172  ( Microsoft believes that Money over free DLC is important) :roll:
14. http://gamerant.com/red-dead-redemptions-liars-cheats-dlc-details-revealed-bow-36654/  (microsoft allows some free DLC but restrictions on how many)
15. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/02/14/203247/xbox-360-game-patching-costs-40000 :|
16. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/microsoft-comes-under-fire-for-five-figure-xbox-360-patch-fee/ (really, is this the a good thing for anyone except microsoft's pocket book?) :twisted: ;)
17. http://www.destructoid.com/wanna-know-why-the-xbox-360-isn-t-getting-the-titan-pack-for-ut3--122331.phtml (Limites on DLC) :P
18. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/12/11/distribution-mistake-means-free-halo-4-dlc-for-everyone.aspx  (WOW free DLC .. oh it was a mistake)
19. http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/microsoft-apologizes-to-halo-4-players-with-free-dlc-then-bans-them/  (LOL microsoft :twisted: )
20. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104609-Microsoft-Drops-Xbox-Live-Silver-Creates-Xbox-Live-Free  (Yes FREE its FREE :P )

 microsoft is just GOING out of its way to MILK everyone they can for as much as they can.  Sony is in the business to make money just like all businessess are but they just have not SUNK to  microsoft's level of greed and rip people off.  

Sony is NOT taking the "HIGH road"  but they are not charging just to play games online, or use Netflex... Sony is not charging for propritary HDD. Sony IS allowing Valvs steam service to work on PSN so Valve can better serve its customers, Sony allows Free DLC.  But again Sony is a corporation so they ARE greedy, NO one is blind to that fact. Sony's fan base just refuses to get MILKED, or nickle and dimed. 

after reading numerous comments, post in defence of microsoft actions in all cases I can only conclude that microsoft fan base is in support of microsoft's actions.

SONY launch price $500.00 and 600 PS2 BC Bluray, WiFi  Buy 1TB HDD From anyone... ETC....

Micrsoft launches the PROPRITARY Xbox 360 $300.00 and $400.00 dollars 20GB HDD (this only matters as You can NOT upgrade to any HDD ONLY MS HDD) NO Wifi, and Live cost $50.00 a year, and you NEED live just to play online and use Netflex!!! (this is FREE on PS3) 

Now lets see $50 a year for 5years + $60 for 3years (till nov 2013) = 300+180 = $480 (lest say huge discount every year and only pay $30.00 for 8 years = $240.00

So comparing 600.00 to (400.00+480= $880.00) ($400+240= $640) what Xbox 360 offers its no comparsion.  

Granted Xbox 360 is a good console and has good games, My Xbox 360 gets more use than MY PS3 ATM but Im not blind to the fact the Microsoft would love to rip me a new one.  Microsoft just finds a way to nickle and dime costumers to death.  Sony has not did that yet and I do not think they will do it next time. 

Holy sh!t, you have a lot of free time. Then again, what am I saying, I make hype threads.Blabadon

You sure make a lot of hype threads.. leave some for others :cry:

[QUOTE="Blabadon"]Holy sh!t, you have a lot of free time. Then again, what am I saying, I make hype threads.finalstar2007

You sure make a lot of hype threads.. leave some for others :cry:

Let me preficit this by saying BOTH Xbox 360 and PS3 are great consoles, with a long list of great games. Both consoles have many options that offer their customers a wide verity of good services. Thus, neither console is inthemselves better than the other, in respects to games.

Sony and Microsoft have diverged in their approach to selling the console and services to its fan base. Both companies are in business and the games industry to make a profit. They go about it in a different way, each trying to make profits.

From the prospective of the fan base it seems that Sony's base does not take much in the way of total money willing to give the company, while microsoft fan base seems eager to give microsoft what ever price microsoft demands.

[QUOTE="THE_Rob_Himself"]

Sony is taking the high road and that they aren't in it for the money, if you think this you are more delusional than Sony thinking they could buy Apple. :lol:

get real, this is a business and every corporation involved is doing it solely for profit, and will strategize their efforts based on the market.

I've got news - If MS goes "casual" and makes more money than Sony this generation, guess what Sony is doing NEXT generation.

Ravenlore_basic

1. http://www.gamespot.com/news/300-xbox-360-spring-bundle-revealed-6404674 (the cost of the console $299.99 with ONE month free LIVE LOL :shock: )
2. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/10/11/microsoft-now-selling-320-gb-hard-drive-separately.aspx (wow bigger HDD but not included! :lol: )
3. http://n4g.com/news/976706/each-xbox-360-sold-nets-microsoft-115-in-profits ( wow those profits are just rolling in and peope just love giving microfost their money)
4. http://www.techspot.com/news/23612-microsoft-makes-tiny-profit-on-xbox-360-hardware.html (microsoft has been making a profit for a while now on each console sold ;) )
5. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/05/hardware-analysis-suggests-the-xbox-360-hdd-is-overpriced/ (But people like to OVERPAY microsoft :o :D )
6. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368510,00.asp (increase in live gold) (Live is SO good with its Ads and now with commercials that they HAVE to raise the price :) )
7. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/13/1924238/the-ugly-profitable-details-about-xbox-live-advertising (still people love for microsfot to make money, and microsoft goes ABOVE AND BEYOND to make money. :cry: :shock: )
8. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116941-TV-Style-Commercials-Coming-to-Xbox-Live ;) (yes this is good for gaming...Why dont Sony, and valve do the same?)
9. http://gamerlimit.com/2009/11/microsoft-sued-for-blocking-third-party-memory-cards/ (microsoft is over charging for memory cards and blocks out Cheaper Choice)
10. http://www.industrygamers.com/news/xbox-360-red-ring-of-death-abating/ (rate of failures) :cool:
11. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Lawsuit,news-2779.html ("Apparently, the company knew about the problem as far back as November 2005.")
12. http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2003776998_xbox06.html ("The cost of the warranty program should not keep the company's Xbox unit... rom turning a profit..." Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell said.
13. http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=737026&postcount=172 ( Microsoft believes that Money over free DLC is important) :roll:
14. http://gamerant.com/red-dead-redemptions-liars-cheats-dlc-details-revealed-bow-36654/ (microsoft allows some free DLC but restrictions on how many)
15. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/02/14/203247/xbox-360-game-patching-costs-40000 :|
16. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/microsoft-comes-under-fire-for-five-figure-xbox-360-patch-fee/ (really, is this the a good thing for anyone except microsoft's pocket book?) :twisted: ;)
17. http://www.destructoid.com/wanna-know-why-the-xbox-360-isn-t-getting-the-titan-pack-for-ut3--122331.phtml (Limites on DLC) :P
18. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/12/11/distribution-mistake-means-free-halo-4-dlc-for-everyone.aspx (WOW free DLC .. oh it was a mistake)
19. http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/microsoft-apologizes-to-halo-4-players-with-free-dlc-then-bans-them/ (LOL microsoft :twisted: )
20. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104609-Microsoft-Drops-Xbox-Live-Silver-Creates-Xbox-Live-Free (Yes FREE its FREE :P )

microsoft is just GOING out of its way to MILK everyone they can for as much as they can. Sony is in the business to make money just like all businessess are but they just have not SUNK to microsoft's level of greed and rip people off.

Sony is NOT taking the "HIGH road" but they are not charging just to play games online, or use Netflex... Sony is not charging for propritary HDD. Sony IS allowing Valvs steam service to work on PSN so Valve can better serve its customers, Sony allows Free DLC. But again Sony is a corporation so they ARE greedy, NO one is blind to that fact. Sony's fan base just refuses to get MILKED, or nickle and dimed.

after reading numerous comments, post in defence of microsoft actions in all cases I can only conclude that microsoft fan base is in support of microsoft's actions.

I must say that you raise a valid point my friend. And notice how in other threads, the MS suckups post by the scores. But here, the information and facts aren't really too favorable, so they remain silent. Suckers........

Lems are morons they don't understand there are different levels of greed. All companies want to make money but not all companies go about it the same way. M$ is light-years ahead of Sony in the greedy rip you off and nickle and dime you department. 

Sony does it too occasionally, but on average Sony gives it's costumers way better value and deals. M$ doesn't even try to hide it, it's ridiculous. As a company your supposed to do your best to camouflage your greed, the costumer is supposed to think it's getting a good deal even if it isn't, Sony does that, M$ just straight up robs you. 

Lems paid $400 for the 360 back in 2005. Then they had to buy a $100 wireless adapter and pay $50 per year for XBL. Every original 360 got RROD so they had to buy atleast 1 more which would be another $400 or $300 if it was a slim. Not to mention the overpriced hard drives that sell from $100-150. Multiply $50-60 a year for xbox live by 7 and lems have spent well over a thousand each this gen just for the console and online alone.

Heres the thing neither Sony or Microsoft care about you they care about your money so giving your allegiance to either company is stupid. Some people here act like Sony does nothing wrong and they give away everything for free. They sure didnt replace my broken PS2 for the disc reading issues.

I love when fanboys try to justify their purchases.

Let me preficit this by saying BOTH Xbox 360 and PS3 are great consoles, with a long list of great games. Both consoles have many options that offer their customers a wide verity of good services. Thus, neither console is inthemselves better than the other, in respects to games.  

Sony and Microsoft have diverged in their approach to selling the console and services to its fan base. Both companies are in business and the games industry to make a profit. They go about it in a different way, each trying to make profits. 

From the prospective of the fan base it seems that Sony's base does not take much in the way of total money willing to give the company, while microsoft fan base seems eager to give microsoft what ever price microsoft demands. 

[QUOTE="THE_Rob_Himself"]

Sony is taking the high road and that they aren't in it for the money, if you think this you are more delusional than Sony thinking they could buy Apple. :lol: 

get real, this is a business and every corporation involved is doing it solely for profit, and will strategize their efforts based on the market.

I've got news - If MS goes "casual" and makes more money than Sony this generation, guess what Sony is doing NEXT generation.  

Ravenlore_basic

1. http://www.gamespot.com/news/300-xbox-360-spring-bundle-revealed-6404674 (the cost of the console $299.99 with ONE month free LIVE LOL :shock: )
2. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/10/11/microsoft-now-selling-320-gb-hard-drive-separately.aspx (wow bigger HDD but not included! :lol: )
3. http://n4g.com/news/976706/each-xbox-360-sold-nets-microsoft-115-in-profits ( wow those profits are just rolling in and peope just love giving microfost their money)
4. http://www.techspot.com/news/23612-microsoft-makes-tiny-profit-on-xbox-360-hardware.html (microsoft has been making a profit for a while now on each console sold ;) )
5. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/05/hardware-analysis-suggests-the-xbox-360-hdd-is-overpriced/ (But people like to OVERPAY microsoft :o :D )
6. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368510,00.asp (increase in live gold) (Live is SO good with its Ads and now with commercials that they HAVE to raise the price :) )
7. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/07/13/1924238/the-ugly-profitable-details-about-xbox-live-advertising  (still people love for microsfot to make money, and microsoft goes ABOVE AND BEYOND to make money. :cry: :shock: )
8. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116941-TV-Style-Commercials-Coming-to-Xbox-Live ;)  (yes this is good for gaming...Why dont Sony, and valve do the same?)
9. http://gamerlimit.com/2009/11/microsoft-sued-for-blocking-third-party-memory-cards/ (microsoft is over charging for memory cards and blocks out Cheaper Choice)
10. http://www.industrygamers.com/news/xbox-360-red-ring-of-death-abating/  (rate of failures) :cool:
11. http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Microsoft-Xbox-360-Lawsuit,news-2779.html ("Apparently, the company knew about the problem as far back as November 2005.")
12. http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2003776998_xbox06.html ("The cost of the warranty program should not keep the company's Xbox unit... rom turning a profit..." Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell said.
13. http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=737026&postcount=172  ( Microsoft believes that Money over free DLC is important) :roll:
14. http://gamerant.com/red-dead-redemptions-liars-cheats-dlc-details-revealed-bow-36654/  (microsoft allows some free DLC but restrictions on how many)
15. http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/02/14/203247/xbox-360-game-patching-costs-40000 :|
16. http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/07/microsoft-comes-under-fire-for-five-figure-xbox-360-patch-fee/ (really, is this the a good thing for anyone except microsoft's pocket book?) :twisted: ;)
17. http://www.destructoid.com/wanna-know-why-the-xbox-360-isn-t-getting-the-titan-pack-for-ut3--122331.phtml (Limites on DLC) :P
18. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/12/11/distribution-mistake-means-free-halo-4-dlc-for-everyone.aspx  (WOW free DLC .. oh it was a mistake)
19. http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/microsoft-apologizes-to-halo-4-players-with-free-dlc-then-bans-them/  (LOL microsoft :twisted: )
20. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104609-Microsoft-Drops-Xbox-Live-Silver-Creates-Xbox-Live-Free  (Yes FREE its FREE :P )

 microsoft is just GOING out of its way to MILK everyone they can for as much as they can.  Sony is in the business to make money just like all businessess are but they just have not SUNK to  microsoft's level of greed and rip people off.  

Sony is NOT taking the "HIGH road"  but they are not charging just to play games online, or use Netflex... Sony is not charging for propritary HDD. Sony IS allowing Valvs steam service to work on PSN so Valve can better serve its customers, Sony allows Free DLC.  But again Sony is a corporation so they ARE greedy, NO one is blind to that fact. Sony's fan base just refuses to get MILKED, or nickle and dimed. 

after reading numerous comments, post in defence of microsoft actions in all cases I can only conclude that microsoft fan base is in support of microsoft's actions.

Lems paid $400 for the 360 back in 2005. Then they had to buy a $100 wireless adapter and pay $50 per year for XBL. Every original 360 got RROD so they had to buy atleast 1 more which would be another $400 or $300 if it was a slim. Not to mention the overpriced hard drives that sell from $100-150. Multiply $50-60 a year for xbox live by 7 and lems have spent well over a thousand each this gen just for the console and online alone.

NathanDrakeSwag

 Lolo, nope. I never bought the wireless adapter and when I got RROD MS sent me a new 360, so no cost at all. Never bought another hard drive either. Both of those items were things you COULD buy not things you ABSOLUTELY had to have to play any of their games. I do pay for Gold, roughly 3 bucks a month. I'll live with that :)shawn30

ITS like this its not the money though $3.00 a month X... How many months since 2005 does equal quite a bit.  but still not the ire to me as is the whole treatment form microsoft. 

Sure many people do not need more than 20GB for their HDD

And yes many people DID not and DO not need the Wi/Fi

Also, Microsoft AFTER being forced or nearly forced to cover the cost of RROD consoles it was not a big deal to send the console back 1 or a few times. 

And yes there are other devices that can play Netflex, hulu, .... 

And sure ads around a paid for Live dashboard is not biggie.

And what are a few commerciales now and again, once in a while. 

In the end the fact is that microsoft did not have to go this route of nickle and diming its customers at all. In the end it ALL ADDS UP, and microsoft just looks VERY greedy for doing it ALL.  

Sony does a LOT of things wrong, They make PLENTY of stupid mistakes, and they are a GREEDY company. No DOUBT about it. 

SO in the end I just do not support the actions and the way that microsoft is doing business. 

But since the console is great, and the games are great I own a Xbox 360.  Just do not support microsoft with anything.  

[QUOTE="shawn30"] Lolo, nope. I never bought the wireless adapter and when I got RROD MS sent me a new 360, so no cost at all. Never bought another hard drive either. Both of those items were things you COULD buy not things you ABSOLUTELY had to have to play any of their games. I do pay for Gold, roughly 3 bucks a month. I'll live with that :)Ravenlore_basic

ITS like this its not the money though $3.00 a month X... How many months since 2005 does eqal quite a bit.  but still not the ire to me as is the whole treatment form microsoft. 

Sure many people do not need more than 20GB for their HDD

And yes many people DID not and DO not need the Wi/Fi

Also, Microsoft AFTER being forced or nearly forced to cover the cost of RROD consoles it was not a big deal to send the console back 1 or a few times. 

And yes there are other devices that can play Netflex, hulu, .... 

And sure ads around a paid for Live dashboard is not biggie.

And what are a few commerciales now and again, once in a while. 

In the end the fact is that microsoft did not have to go this route of nickle and diming its customers at all. In the end it ALL ADDS UP, and microsoft just looks VERY greedy for doing it ALL.  

Sony does a LOT of things wrong, They make PLENTY of stupid mistakes, and they are a GREEDY company. No DOUBT about it. 

SO in the end I just do not support the actions and the way that microsoft is doing business. 

But since the console is great, and the games are great I own a Xbox 360.  Just do not support microsoft with anything.  

not reading, my topic was locked. I guess this one will be too. 

holy **** you take this way too seriously :lol:

Lems paid $400 for the 360 back in 2005. Then they had to buy a $100 wireless adapter and pay $50 per year for XBL. Every original 360 got RROD so they had to buy atleast 1 more which would be another $400 or $300 if it was a slim. Not to mention the overpriced hard drives that sell from $100-150. Multiply $50-60 a year for xbox live by 7 and lems have spent well over a thousand each this gen just for the console and online alone.

NathanDrakeSwag

not reading, my topic was locked. I guess this one will be too. 

THE_Rob_Himself

NOPE

After being here a while I have came to the conclusion that most Cows are ignorant gimps regardless of their gaming choice. Just reading through a few of Eddie-Vedder's threads will lower your I.Q. several points.

SONY launch price $500.00 and 600 PS2 BC Bluray, WiFi  Buy 1TB HDD From anyone... ETC....

Micrsoft launches the PROPRITARY Xbox 360 $300.00 and $400.00 dollars 20GB HDD (this only matters as You can NOT upgrade to any HDD ONLY MS HDD) NO Wifi, and Live cost $50.00 a year, and you NEED live just to play online and use Netflex!!! (this is FREE on PS3) 

Now lets see $50 a year for 5years + $60 for 3years (till nov 2013) = 300+180 = $480 (lest say huge discount every year and only pay $30.00 for 8 years = $240.00

So comparing 600.00 to (400.00+480= $880.00) ($400+240= $640) what Xbox 360 offers its no comparsion.  

Granted Xbox 360 is a good console and has good games, My Xbox 360 gets more use than MY PS3 ATM but Im not blind to the fact the Microsoft would love to rip me a new one.  Microsoft just finds a way to nickle and dime costumers to death.  Sony has not did that yet and I do not think they will do it next time. 

Ravenlore_basic

Both companies will try and nickle and dime you if they can. Sony will most likely because charging more fees when the PS4 launches. Sony is actually envious of Microsoft, as M$ is actually making a sizable profit with their online service. Sony ain't making much, which is why they are selling buildings just to appease their investors and stock holders. Both of the business strategy is different. We can easily tell which one is actually working and making a profit and which isn't.blackace

Heres the thing neither Sony or Microsoft care about you they care about your money so giving your allegiance to either company is stupid. Some people here act like Sony does nothing wrong and they give away everything for free. They sure didnt replace my broken PS2 for the disc reading issues.

coolnessmancool

Now on to free stuff. Sony is a differnt company this gen. If you don't have a ps3 and participate in psn you wouldn't know it, but they give massive amounts of games away for free. I got free games being a standard user, free dlc and expansions from devs as sony doesn't make devs charge for everything like ms does.

Lets also talk PS+ here... i don't pat for online play or betas or voice chat, etc... its all standard. PS+ gives me 13 free games to start and 4 new ones a month 3 for ps3 and 1 for vita monthly! My old free games from plus don't go away unless my account lapses...even then if I join again the games i had before are back.. so they don't disappear. Then there are the massive 50-75% discounts on games i get every week... these you keep if your plus lapses or not as you own them. i have bought full $60 games for $10-15 ... yeah... its that good.

Netflix and online are not behind a paywall. The psp+ service is the opposite of live as it gives...live blocks content and unlocks things that should be standard fare and are everywhere else. How do lems not understand that this stuff is available for free everywhere but 360? It boggles my mind. Then there are the fools who have never even owned a ps3 and they state how xlive is better and that is why they pay for it. But if you ask them why its better...they backpedel , and spew some bs about how ps sucks, but never give any reasons as to why and try to avoid the subject... its like they are delusional... or brainwashed ... I don't know. The only other place I have seen this is with Apple fanatics. Sony fans at least have a reason to be happy. Free stuff and a company who listens to them. They interact with the community all the time... does ms even do that anymore besides that one major dude? Sony has a whole blog that puts articles up every day.... I could go on and on about this.

After being here a while I have came to the conclusion that most Cows are ignorant gimps regardless of their gaming choice. Just reading through a few of Eddie-Vedder's threads will lower your I.Q. several points.

timbers_WSU

The same can be said for all rabid fans of any single system.  I don't mind any VALID or even simi valid argument, but it always gets down to Elementry arguments, and personal.  

"I think my consoles is the best because I say so."  " my way of thinking is JUST RIGHT"  "I know you are but what am I"  "Your console sucks"  

Again I think All consoles can bring great gaming to its base and to the gaming industry in general. Still, ALL companies sometimes make moves that harm the industry at the same time.  (at the same time gamers also harm the industry, and want as much given to them.)