Do people actually still believe blu-ray is needed for gaming?

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bluebrad1974

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#1 bluebrad1974
Member since 2005 • 5162 Posts
Heavenly Sword is 6 hours long. Warhawk is what, a around 2GB? Oblivion had 12 square miles of landscape and fit on a DVD9. Do people still actually believe that blu-ray is needed for current gen gaming? Also, do people still actually believe that the extra space on a BR disc isn't being used for uncompressed data, that includes sound, CGI,region free voice acting and coding. Where are the massive 80 hour epics that sony implied would normally be made for the ps3 using blu-ray?
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Art_424

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#2 Art_424
Member since 2004 • 1745 Posts

Dont tell that to Cows, thats one of many, of the purchasing justifications they have.8)

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XxX_Slython_XxX

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#3 XxX_Slython_XxX
Member since 2004 • 691 Posts
Well, to be fair, Blue Dragon did come on 3 discs.
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yoshi_64

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#4 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts

I fail to see the negativity against Blu-Ray as a format for games. Truely, it adds more to the cost of the system, since all must be installed with Blu-Ray drives in order to play the games. That's about all I can see. What's wrong now? Cost will come down, and les we forget... Blu-Ray is just an upgrade to DVD. Technology has always been about moving forward, upgrading, and giving more. More data, more power, more processing, etc, etc.

DVD has a limit but Blu-Ray opens a canvas for game artists because they have more data to put more content on, more animations, backgrounds, particle effects, textures, etc. Composers can create more music and have it come out crisper and clearer now, due to the more larger datat size.

Frankly, the term "needed" is quite redundant to be coming from anyone who wants to have better technology and be moving forward.

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Sir_Crocidile

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#5 Sir_Crocidile
Member since 2004 • 389 Posts
I never believed it was needed for gaming. I thought at one point it would be the future of storage, but not after I saw a video about holographic data storage nor after seeing another video about nano data storage. Not sure if those are the correct terms but its the concept at least.
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Art_424

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#6 Art_424
Member since 2004 • 1745 Posts

Well, to be fair, Blue Dragon did come on 3 discs.XxX_Slython_XxX

Youd be surprised to know that many lemms dont really care to swap discs, as long as it isnt every hour. Final Fantasy had the same going on the PS2 and nobody complained.

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XxX_Slython_XxX

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#7 XxX_Slython_XxX
Member since 2004 • 691 Posts

[QUOTE="XxX_Slython_XxX"]Well, to be fair, Blue Dragon did come on 3 discs.Art_424

Youd be surprised to know that many lemms dont really care to swap discs, as long as it isnt every hour. Final Fantasy had the same going on the PS2 and nobody complained.

Nah, I don't care either. But in the future more storage will probobly be needed for games 10+ hours.

I sure hope MS starts allowing people to download ACTUAL games and stuff.

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yoshi_64

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#8 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts

[QUOTE="XxX_Slython_XxX"]Well, to be fair, Blue Dragon did come on 3 discs.Art_424

Youd be surprised to know that many lemms dont really care to swap discs, as long as it isnt every hour. Final Fantasy had the same going on the PS2 and nobody complained.

Final Fantasy did on PS2? Wow.. I wonder when that happened? :|

There were a few games that were multiple discs on the PS2. I can say that Star Ocean: Tillt he End of Time was one of them, but the others I don't remeber so well. Regardless, it wasn't too frequent on the PS2. It should basically be something that's eradicated this gen, but maybe it won't be for one system that may have HD Cutscenes and so on...

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no_submission

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#9 no_submission
Member since 2007 • 961 Posts

Yes

Thread obliterated.

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GrlGmr

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#10 GrlGmr
Member since 2003 • 4179 Posts

DVD has a limit but Blu-Ray opens a canvas for game artists because they have more data to put more content on, more animations, backgrounds, particle effects, textures, etc. Composers can create more music and have it come out crisper and clearer now, due to the more larger datat size.

Frankly, the term "needed" is quite redundant to be coming from anyone who wants to have better technology and be moving forward.

yoshi_64

Have we seen any games thatreally took advantage of that extra space, though? No. I don't think we've seen a single game on the PS3 that couldn't have been done on the 360 using one DVD9.

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DarthaPerkinjan

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#11 DarthaPerkinjan
Member since 2005 • 1326 Posts

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

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yoshi_64

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#12 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts
[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

DVD has a limit but Blu-Ray opens a canvas for game artists because they have more data to put more content on, more animations, backgrounds, particle effects, textures, etc. Composers can create more music and have it come out crisper and clearer now, due to the more larger datat size.

Frankly, the term "needed" is quite redundant to be coming from anyone who wants to have better technology and be moving forward.

GrlGmr

Have we seen any games thatreally took advantage of that extra space, though? No. I don't think we've seen a single game on the PS3 that couldn't have been done on the 360 using one DVD9.

Oh, really now? I believe in R:FOM there was a level that took about 4 GBs of data alone. I'll try to find the link, and may I remind you R:FOM did a very good job showcasing the PS3's power and specialties.

Now, with that in mind. You're just looking at the now. Yes, I realize cows say "wait" and you may think i'm saying that. However, not every dev is focusing on the PS3 in respect either. If anything is gonna do it, it's gonna be a PS3 exclusive. Not a multi plat game, which the PS3 pretty much has except for about 5 games.

Also, may I remind you that technology has always been about the future and improving on the now. Blu-Ray is definately a step-up. It allows more data storage, something that is definitely useful for today's HD games. Scoff now, but that doesn't deny what I say to be true. It will happen, and maybe even say...next year or so. We haven't seen any yet, but we've seen some indications on some. Don't be closed minded. The PS3's Blu-Ray support could very well give the games a "Next-gen" feel that the 360 couldn't without losses.

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Danm_999

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#13 Danm_999
Member since 2003 • 13924 Posts

It really depends which sort of game, since Blu-ray is useful for certain things, and not others.

For games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy, it's a god sent, since it allows them to pack in more CGI and audio. For others, namely FPS, sports, racing etc it isn't, since those games don't generally have space constraint issues.

That said, you need to look at the sort of games you buy the PS3 for to judge whether or not Blu-ray is worth it for you. If your buying a whole bunch of multiplats, it's just not worth the extra price and higher loading times.

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LEGEND_C4A

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#14 LEGEND_C4A
Member since 2003 • 3186 Posts

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

DarthaPerkinjan

what! Halo 3 is on multiple disks? link please....

who the hell cares if a developer has peace of mind? just make great games and stop the bullsh**.

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Wil4hire

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#15 Wil4hire
Member since 2007 • 650 Posts

Heavenly Sword is 6 hours long. Warhawk is what, a around 2GB? Oblivion had 12 square miles of landscape and fit on a DVD9. Do people still actually believe that blu-ray is needed for current gen gaming? Also, do people still actually believe that the extra space on a BR disc isn't being used for uncompressed data, that includes sound, CGI,region free voice acting and coding. Where are the massive 80 hour epics that sony implied would normally be made for the ps3 using blu-ray?bluebrad1974

Seriously. You sound like you are afraid of technology.. Since when did people NOT want more space on their media?? I do believe the 360's elite version has an 120gb hard drive? Why go bigger??!?!? I'm sure you were happy with your floppy discs as well?

Sony Won the BETA war. Not for consumers, but for people who work for a living. Every MOVIE you have watched, every TV SHOW you have watched, every PORN(well most) That you have watched have been on BETA TAPES at one time or another to get to DVD/VHS/VCD etc. Every company in PRODUCTION uses beta tapes.

More space is a good thing.

FYI Warhawk is 756mb.

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DarthaPerkinjan

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#16 DarthaPerkinjan
Member since 2005 • 1326 Posts
[QUOTE="DarthaPerkinjan"]

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

LEGEND_C4A

what! Halo 3 is on multiple disks? link please....

who the hell cares if a developer has peace of mind? just make great games and stop the bullsh**.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/795/795238p1.html

I see 3 DVDs there. All 3 DVDs could have been fitted onto one SINGLE LAYERblu-ray disc

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Art_424

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#17 Art_424
Member since 2004 • 1745 Posts

Halo 3 on multiple discs?:shock:

Link pls.!

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Sir_Crocidile

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#18 Sir_Crocidile
Member since 2004 • 389 Posts
[QUOTE="LEGEND_C4A"][QUOTE="DarthaPerkinjan"]

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

DarthaPerkinjan

what! Halo 3 is on multiple disks? link please....

who the hell cares if a developer has peace of mind? just make great games and stop the bullsh**.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/795/795238p1.html

I see 3 DVDs there. All 3 DVDs could have been fitted onto one SINGLE LAYERblu-ray disc

Just wanted to point out IGN clearly states that's the collectors edition. I am pretty sure the generic version is one disc.

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E M I N 3 M

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#19 E M I N 3 M
Member since 2002 • 2615 Posts
[QUOTE="Art_424"]

[QUOTE="XxX_Slython_XxX"]Well, to be fair, Blue Dragon did come on 3 discs.yoshi_64

Youd be surprised to know that many lemms dont really care to swap discs, as long as it isnt every hour. Final Fantasy had the same going on the PS2 and nobody complained.

Final Fantasy did on PS2? Wow.. I wonder when that happened? :|

There were a few games that were multiple discs on the PS2. I can say that Star Ocean: Tillt he End of Time was one of them, but the others I don't remeber so well. Regardless, it wasn't too frequent on the PS2. It should basically be something that's eradicated this gen, but maybe it won't be for one system that may have HD Cutscenes and so on...

Not to mention, for whatever reason, PS2 had p!ss poor compression. Most of the games that were multiplat last gen were half the size(gb's) on Xbox than they were on PS2...And everything looked & sounded better on Xbox. BD is going to make devs lazy & spread data/code all over the disc, which ispart of the reason PS3 multiplats take longer to load.
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desktopdefender

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#20 desktopdefender
Member since 2007 • 1415 Posts
[QUOTE="LEGEND_C4A"][QUOTE="DarthaPerkinjan"]

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

DarthaPerkinjan

what! Halo 3 is on multiple disks? link please....

who the hell cares if a developer has peace of mind? just make great games and stop the bullsh**.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/795/795238p1.html

I see 3 DVDs there. All 3 DVDs could have been fitted onto one SINGLE LAYERblu-ray disc

thats for all the Legendary edtion stuff......the standard only has one disk

But i see ur point

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RedMarzBoy

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#21 RedMarzBoy
Member since 2004 • 1298 Posts
When the PS2 first came out most games were on CDROM for it. But later on it became clear that DVD was needed and preferred. I'm not sure if the same will happen to Bluray. But if it does I expect it to happen within the next 2 years just like it did on PS2 not this soon.
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Heil68

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#22 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60819 Posts

Yes

Thread obliterated.

no_submission
Oh the carnage!!!!
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GrlGmr

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#23 GrlGmr
Member since 2003 • 4179 Posts

[QUOTE="GrlGmr"]

Have we seen any games thatreally took advantage of that extra space, though? No. I don't think we've seen a single game on the PS3 that couldn't have been done on the 360 using one DVD9.

yoshi_64

Oh, really now? I believe in R:FOM there was a level that took about 4 GBs of data alone. I'll try to find the link, and may I remind you R:FOM did a very good job showcasing the PS3's power and specialties.

Now, with that in mind. You're just looking at the now. Yes, I realize cows say "wait" and you may think i'm saying that. However, not every dev is focusing on the PS3 in respect either. If anything is gonna do it, it's gonna be a PS3 exclusive. Not a multi plat game, which the PS3 pretty much has except for about 5 games.

Also, may I remind you that technology has always been about the future and improving on the now. Blu-Ray is definately a step-up. It allows more data storage, something that is definitely useful for today's HD games. Scoff now, but that doesn't deny what I say to be true. It will happen, and maybe even say...next year or so. We haven't seen any yet, but we've seen some indications on some. Don't be closed minded. The PS3's Blu-Ray support could very well give the games a "Next-gen" feel that the 360 couldn't without losses.

Notice that I didn't say we hadn't seen any games that could not have FIT on a DVD9, only games that could not have been done on DVD9. I seem to remember hearing that there was a lot of redundant data on the Blu-Ray discs to make up for the PS3's slower seek times. I mean, really... I hate to bring up this comparison again, but look at Resitance. Does it really look that much better than GeoW? Does it really scream out "THIS GAME HAS 5 TIMES THE STORAGE SPACE OF GEARS?" No, it doesn't.

The point is, so far we haven't seen anything that really takes advantage of the extra size that the Blu-Ray disc provides. The potential is there, yes, but none of the games we've seen so far has done much in the way of taking advantage of it in ways that benefit gamers directly. What we've got so far is a bunch of short but very pretty games which could easily have fit on a DVD9 with texture and audio compression or some minor alterations at best.

I'm not denying the potential benefits of a larger storage medium, but it has yet to be used in any type of effective, meaningful way.

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LEGEND_C4A

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#24 LEGEND_C4A
Member since 2003 • 3186 Posts
[QUOTE="DarthaPerkinjan"]

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

LEGEND_C4A

what! Halo 3 is on multiple disks? link please....

who the hell cares if a developer has peace of mind? just make great games and stop the bullsh**.

thank you for the link..

is this official? is the game actually on 2 disks? interesting indeed, but is it really a big deal. I'm gonna play this game to death!

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deactivated-5dd711115e664

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#25 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

Heavenly Sword is 6 hours long. Warhawk is what, a around 2GB? Oblivion had 12 square miles of landscape and fit on a DVD9. Do people still actually believe that blu-ray is needed for current gen gaming? Also, do people still actually believe that the extra space on a BR disc isn't being used for uncompressed data, that includes sound, CGI,region free voice acting and coding. Where are the massive 80 hour epics that sony implied would normally be made for the ps3 using blu-ray?bluebrad1974

How is this possible? A Sony hater making a BR bashing thread and not using the cliched Oblivion excuse?! Wow. I thought lemmings were impervious to the TONS of threads mentioning how Oblivion cut numerous corners to make the massive game fit on a DVD.

It's good to know that lemmings are finally thinking for themselves and making logical and rational arguements instead of repeating the same misinformation and cliched excuses over and over again.

Oh wait...

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xXHackettXx

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#26 xXHackettXx
Member since 2006 • 3560 Posts
Blue Ray isnt needed but its nice to know if a game was so huge that it needed it, it could have the room.
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Poop_Slash

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#27 Poop_Slash
Member since 2007 • 499 Posts

Heavenly Sword is 6 hours long. Warhawk is what, a around 2GB? Oblivion had 12 square miles of landscape and fit on a DVD9. Do people still actually believe that blu-ray is needed for current gen gaming? Also, do people still actually believe that the extra space on a BR disc isn't being used for uncompressed data, that includes sound, CGI,region free voice acting and coding. Where are the massive 80 hour epics that sony implied would normally be made for the ps3 using blu-ray?bluebrad1974

Warhawk is a 700-800 MB game for **** sake... Just wanna throw that out.

The Blu-ray Version of Warhawk is not actually Spinning. But it installs a 700 MB File on to the HDD and reads from that. :lol:

In other words It s a hunka hunka burning dog crap.

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snorlaxmaster

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#28 snorlaxmaster
Member since 2005 • 1490 Posts

[QUOTE="XxX_Slython_XxX"]Well, to be fair, Blue Dragon did come on 3 discs.Art_424

Youd be surprised to know that many lemms dont really care to swap discs, as long as it isnt every hour. Final Fantasy had the same going on the PS2 and nobody complained.

If it doesn't freakin' matter, shouldn't systems still use cartrages?? I fail to see your logic. :?
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boyinfridge

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#29 boyinfridge
Member since 2006 • 1796 Posts

blu-ray isnt realy needed at the moment HS has been in development since 2003 and it has still come in short thats because gamestake so much more time to develop now all is in HD.

Can you imagine how long and how much it would have cost to make a game like heavenly sword and it be 15 hours long? you would have a hard time making a profit from a game like that.

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foxhound_fox

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#30 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
IIRC, Daggerfall came on a handful of floppy discs and had 161,000 square miles of space... Blu-ray is great for storing uncompressed HD media... that's it. How that relates to gaming is anyone interpretation.
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GARRYTH

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#31 GARRYTH
Member since 2005 • 6870 Posts

please don't use oblivion for an excample because the yuse the same things over and over again. if they just used blu-ray for that i bet there would beway more than 2differant looking caves. the cities buildings would look differant ect. so are you saying blu-ray is not good. to me there are many reason that blu-ray is BETTER than dvd's for games.

1. scratch proof

2. more storage.

3. same price (games wise)

4. can read more data at a time.

5. true hd

6. better cases (i now my opinion but still)

is that a nuff reason why blu-ray is better.

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GARRYTH

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#32 GARRYTH
Member since 2005 • 6870 Posts
IIRC, Daggerfall came on a handful of floppy discs and had 161,000 square miles of space... Blu-ray is great for storing uncompressed HD media... that's it. How that relates to gaming is anyone interpretation.foxhound_fox
read my post above there is more than one reason why it is better.
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Timstuff

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#33 Timstuff
Member since 2002 • 26840 Posts

Why do some people assume that more disc space is supposed to = longer game by default? There's a heckuvalot that can be done with more disc space than just making a game longer. It can also mean more detailed, varied animations, more detailed game worlds, better audio, etc. There is no single thing that more disc space improves drastically because it just overall improves the developement process. Having more space to work with is ALWAYS a good thing, no matter how you try to spin it.

If you want to be legalistic, no Blu-Ray isn't "needed," but neither is a 3.2 GHz processor, the fanciest new video card, or even a hard drive. Developers can always scrap by with the bare minimum if they're required to from day one, but when you give people better tools, they can make better games. None of the next-gen enhancements are "needed" (just ask sheep, lol), but the more they have to work with, the better a game they can put together.

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foxhound_fox

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#34 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
read my post above there is more than one reason why it is better.GARRYTH


Yet you never mentioned the read speed bottleneck. The one that is forcing developers to cache data on the harddrive to speed up loading times. Imagine what using a standard HDD for caching and DVD9's could do for console gaming... look what its done for PC gaming.

1. If you handle your discs carefully, this isn't a problem.
2. standard high-capacity HDD's give even more storage and faster access speeds
3. Increases development costs in time spent learning how to use Blu-ray
4. Proof? Last I heard, the Blu-ray on the PS3 had a very slow read speed that bottlenecked the other hardware and caused increased load times.
5. As long as the hardware (CPU/GPU) renders the picture at a HD resolution, it is HD, the storage medium has nothing to do with it.
6. Ooo... wow... no cases >>>> cases

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legendbyname

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#35 legendbyname
Member since 2007 • 361 Posts

this whole thread is ridiculous. I have never once seen anyone say blu-ray is "needed". You can't deny the pros blu-ray gives so stop whining. The only thing you complain about is price and dvd players were more expensive than the ps2 when they first came out.  You would have said the same thing about dvds 6 years ago if you werent 15 years old

/deletethread 

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shaggymcp

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#37 shaggymcp
Member since 2003 • 2896 Posts
While I don't believe that its "NEEDED" I would say that you would have to be an idiot to believe that its not a benefit.
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ff7isnumbaone

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#38 ff7isnumbaone
Member since 2005 • 5352 Posts

Heavenly Sword is 6 hours long. Warhawk is what, a around 2GB? Oblivion had 12 square miles of landscape and fit on a DVD9. Do people still actually believe that blu-ray is needed for current gen gaming? Also, do people still actually believe that the extra space on a BR disc isn't being used for uncompressed data, that includes sound, CGI,region free voice acting and coding. Where are the massive 80 hour epics that sony implied would normally be made for the ps3 using blu-ray?bluebrad1974

its depends on what kind of things the developer wants to put on it. But I dont develop games, i play them. Do you develop games for ps3? lol regular old fanboys thinking their devs. Only lemmings.

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deactivated-5dd711115e664

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#39 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

You make some good points. Unfortunately your bad points are extremely horrible and ill-informed.

[QUOTE="GARRYTH"]read my post above there is more than one reason why it is better.foxhound_fox


Yet you never mentioned the read speed bottleneck. The one that is forcing developers to cache data on the harddrive to speed up loading times. Imagine what using a standard HDD for caching and DVD9's could do for console gaming... look what its done for PC gaming.

1. If you handle your discs carefully, this isn't a problem.
2. standard high-capacity HDD's give even more storage and faster access speeds
3. Increases development costs in time spent learning how to use Blu-ray
4. Proof? Last I heard, the Blu-ray on the PS3 had a very slow read speed that bottlenecked the other hardware and caused increased load times.
5. As long as the hardware (CPU/GPU) renders the picture at a HD resolution, it is HD, the storage medium has nothing to do with it.
6. Ooo... wow... no cases >>>> cases

1. I agree. However, sometimes discs can get scratched simply from use. I've seen discs for popular games get scratched simply from going in and out of the feeder so often. However, I've never heard of these shallow scratches affecting the game. On the other hand, this is directed to the other guy, the reason BR HAS to be more scratch resistant is because unlike CDs and DVDs (and HD-dvd) it doesn't have the protective layer of plastic covering the think metal layer that holds the info. The BR discs are the direct layer exposed so it HAS to be more scratch resistant.

2. True, but we aren't going to be downloading full games like Oblivion OR Killzone 2 any time soon. So we still need to buy games on proper storage discs OR we will have to start installing games which many of us can't stand.

3. This is simply wrong. It doesn't cost anything to "learn how to use BR." The extra costs comes into needed new manufactruing equipment to make the discs. Also, the extra costs we keep hearing about have nothing to do with BR, but with the push for graphics and realism in gaming...which requires more staff, more technology, etc to make a game and all that drives up the costs. It doesn't drive up developer costs to then put the game on BR. Especially since most developers don't print the discs themselves anyway.

4. BR doesn't bottleneck hardware, although you could make the point that the slower read time increases load times. However, after playing Oblivion for the 360, or KOTOR for Xbox, I wouldn't exactly say that those load times are worth bragging about. When people argue over load times it's like arguing over which is the better tasting turd...your still just eating turds. People used to bash the lack of a HDD in the PS2 vs. the Xbox and used load times as an excuse. Yet i've never seen a PS2 with loading like KOTOR had and I've never seen an Xbox title with ZERO loading like Jak and Daxter or Rathcet and Clank had.

5. This is also completely incorrect. HD video and sound, by their very nature, contain much more information and therefore require more space. While there is some hardware that can "upscale" or fill in the missing data, it isn't true HD and will never be considered a proper substitute. It's like comparing a real Picasso to a copy and saying they should both have the same value. Except one is REAL and has real benefits while the other is fake. There is a reason that Wav files take up more space than MP3s...because the sound quality is better. While MP3s can come extremely close, people with a discerning ear will always be able to tell the difference. And no artist will ever say MP3 should forever replace WAVs for CDs because it's "close enough."

Also, people tend to make the arguement that we can just compress the data and make it fit. This is another ignorant statement because ANY compression results in some loss of information which is therefore a downgrade of the original format. The whole point of HD video and now sound is that you get the most complete information of what was originally recorded. Any time you start compressing that, you lose something and that is why HD takes up way more space. Anything else isn't true HD and is just an imposter meant to make people feel they are getting the same quality as people with real HD. They aren't, but most of them won't know the difference anyway.

6. I agree the cases arguement is lame.

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deactivated-5dd711115e664

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#40 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

Why do some people assume that more disc space is supposed to = longer game by default? There's a heckuvalot that can be done with more disc space than just making a game longer. It can also mean more detailed, varied animations, more detailed game worlds, better audio, etc. There is no single thing that more disc space improves drastically because it just overall improves the developement process. Having more space to work with is ALWAYS a good thing, no matter how you try to spin it.

If you want to be legalistic, no Blu-Ray isn't "needed," but neither is a 3.2 GHz processor, the fanciest new video card, or even a hard drive. Developers can always scrap by with the bare minimum if they're required to from day one, but when you give people better tools, they can make better games. None of the next-gen enhancements are "needed" (just ask sheep, lol), but the more they have to work with, the better a game they can put together.

Timstuff

When people have no real arguement but feel the need to defend their biases anyway, they often tend to create straw men falacies.

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lordxymor

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#41 lordxymor
Member since 2004 • 2438 Posts

Something I posted in other blu-ray thread:

1080p isn't needed. 720p isn't needed. Rumble isn't needed. Analog sticks aren't needed. 5.1 audio isn't needed. complex physics, stunning graphics, etc... none of those things are needed.

You can make great games without those things, remember Snes and Atari?

Now, when you have those things, and you make them avaliable to developers, they WILL put them to good use, or maybe some of them won't and will prefer to make a 2D game in the middle of the freaking 7th generation and still the game can be just as successful and criticaly acclaimed as those multimilion multiyear MGS/Halo mega productions.

It's about giving the developers tools. How they use, and how successful they are using them is up to their efforts and imagination.

myself

If developers were to release modding tools and specifications in the begining of the development cycle, by the release date a game would have huge ammounts of user created content that could be shipping in the discs. THAT would be a good example of games 2.0.

Just imagine: UT3 with 20 official maps plus 200 user-created, 30 official weapons plus 100 user-created, 40 enemy models plus 150 user created, etc...

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DeadMan1290

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#42 DeadMan1290
Member since 2005 • 15754 Posts

I don't think Blu-Ray was needed this gen. IMO, it should've been out NextGen not now. But Sony did what they did and so far it's looking sort of good for Sony.

P.S: Philips Blu-Ray Player is way too expensive.

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caseypayne69

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#43 caseypayne69
Member since 2002 • 5396 Posts
Heavenly Sword has more audio data then a dvd9 can hold. Enough said.
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caseypayne69

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#44 caseypayne69
Member since 2002 • 5396 Posts
[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

DVD has a limit but Blu-Ray opens a canvas for game artists because they have more data to put more content on, more animations, backgrounds, particle effects, textures, etc. Composers can create more music and have it come out crisper and clearer now, due to the more larger datat size.

Frankly, the term "needed" is quite redundant to be coming from anyone who wants to have better technology and be moving forward.

GrlGmr

Have we seen any games thatreally took advantage of that extra space, though? No. I don't think we've seen a single game on the PS3 that couldn't have been done on the 360 using one DVD9.

Read my above post.

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#45 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
It's not needed, but I'm sure it's nice to have the extra space.
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DeadMan1290

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#46 DeadMan1290
Member since 2005 • 15754 Posts

Heavenly Sword has more audio data then a dvd9 can hold. Enough said.caseypayne69

So?

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caseypayne69

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#47 caseypayne69
Member since 2002 • 5396 Posts

Were DVDs 'needed' for last gen? No. Did they help out alot? Ye.s Were developers maxing out DVDs on the PS2? Yes

How many examples do you need of blu-ray being needed?

- PGR4 night tracks cut out due to DVD space

- FFXIII development staff quoting blu-ray space as reason they chose to make it on the PS3

- Unreal Tournament III staff saying PS3 version will have more maps

- Several PS3 games have been over 15 GBs

- Hideo Kojima wants a 50GB BD for Metal Gear Solid 4

- Several 360 games, namely Blue Dragon and Halo 3, are on multiple discs

I'd rather have a developer have peace of mind and have 10-15 GBs of blank space rather than have them sweat bullets by using last gen media

DarthaPerkinjan

/Thread good job.

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munsoned

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#48 munsoned
Member since 2006 • 3064 Posts

after owning a ps3 for about two months now i dont see why blue ray is needed for movies either.

my ps3 upscales my old dvds to 1080i. the blue ray movies i rented are in run in 1080i. i dont see much of a diffrence to be honest...

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snyper1982

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#49 snyper1982
Member since 2004 • 3407 Posts

I never believed it was needed for gaming. I thought at one point it would be the future of storage, but not after I saw a video about holographic data storage nor after seeing another video about nano data storage. Not sure if those are the correct terms but its the concept at least.Sir_Crocidile

I have heard nothing about Nano storgae, but holographic storage should be availible by the time next gen starts, and it puts BD to shame.

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akif22

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#50 akif22
Member since 2003 • 16012 Posts

it's not needed

360 has games like Oblivion that last for ages

whereas the PS3's titles so far haven't done anything with blu-ray .. look at Lair and Heavenly Sword .. they spend so much time on graphics that the games are way too short