Does Super Mario Galaxy prove that Nintendo values casuals over their core fans?

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bobderwood97_1

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#1 bobderwood97_1
Member since 2003 • 964 Posts

Well I just beat Super Mario Galaxy not too long ago and I must say, it was a really good game. However, I have loved the Mario games based off of three things: they are fun, creative and challenging. Although I feel that Mario Galaxy excelled at those first two parts, I personally think that it has undermined the third. Ever since I started the game I have been wondering when the difficulty was going to pick up. I have now beat the game and I am about 70 stars in to it; however, I still find that the difficulty is roughly the same as it was when I had only a handful of stars.

I found that the majority of the time that the game was relatively easy; however, during the times that there was a difficulty in the game it was curbed with coins, 1-up mushrooms, a bunch of star bits or a combination of the aforementioned items. There were times when I would collect the star bits, the 1-up mushroom, die, come back at a point very close to where I died pick up the mushroom again then the star bits and get another 1-up for collecting 50 star bits. In short, that means that for every two attempts at an area I would gain three lives. The game made it so that you could easily gain lives at a faster pace then you could lose them.

The challenge comets were not all that difficult either. For example, one time you have to race a shadow version of yourself, it's a water race and you go much faster while you are in the water then you do when you are on dry land, but during the middle of the race your shadow opponent decides that he is just going to leave the water and run on dry land, which gives you a big advantage and inevitably gives you the win and the star. There were also time trials, which would have you re-do a galaxy that you have already completed, but you must do it in a limited amount of time. That sounds challenging, but the problem is that they give you too much time, I would usually complete them I my first time with about a minute or so to spare.

Maybe I was wrong though, the last real Mario game that I had played was Mario 64 and that was years ago. I thought that maybe I have gotten better at video games over time and that the reason they were so challenging was only I was a little kid without gaming skills. Well after downloading Mario 3 off the VC and getting to world 6, I have easily confirmed this to not be the case. So why has Mario gotten so easy? I blame Nintendo's new target crowd, the casuals. I consider myself a normal, core-gamer. I don't consider myself hardcore or anything, but I do enjoy a good challenge; however, I don't think casuals might feel the same way. So here is my conspiracy-ish theory.

My idea of a casual gamer is either a non-gamer who wants to try videogames out or someone who does not play videogames all that much, but still purchases a few every now and then. Now during the short while someone like a casual plays a videogame they want to have a fun time where they will be entertained. Now, to add real challenge to a game makes it more difficult, normal gamers would easily rise to the challenge, but a casual might get frustrated and quit, thus giving them a negative view toward video gaming and discouraging them from purchasing any more games or getting them to advertise by word of mouth. I think that Nintendo kept this in mind when creating a game with their mascot character and thus purposefully made the game easier than normal.

Well that's what I think so far. I could be wrong and the game does get more difficult the closer you get to 120 stars, but until then I'll just have to play it and see if it does. Also, I know that this is blog material, but I am posting it here because I want to see how other people feel about this.

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Udsen

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#2 Udsen
Member since 2007 • 3389 Posts
Saturo Iwata doesn't care about core people.
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FreewayScruff

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#3 FreewayScruff
Member since 2008 • 626 Posts
Nintendo has never been about core gamers anyway. not since the wii anyway
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Hockey_Slayer

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#4 Hockey_Slayer
Member since 2004 • 3213 Posts
When I got to about 90 stars that's when it started getting hard for me. I still don't have them all, the game is not easy as some people make it seem.
Edit: And last I remember SM64 wasn't an hard game at all yet no one said anything about it.
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frankeyser

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#5 frankeyser
Member since 2004 • 5667 Posts
there are in fact 241 stars. you have a ways to go. i will say that playing as luigi is substantially harder due to the fact he slides everywhere. His higher jumping ability does make some levels easier.
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linkin_guy109

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#6 linkin_guy109
Member since 2005 • 8864 Posts
from what ive heard getting the last like 20 stars is supposed to be what makes the game what it is
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Ontain

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#7 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts

if difficulty was what core games are about i guess bioshock isn't a core game either.

SMG has some very tough levels. sure there's plenty of extra lives but so what? that just allow you to skip the boring parts and get back to trying to beat the level. the mix of difficulties and variety of level designs were great.

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m_machine024

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#8 m_machine024
Member since 2006 • 15874 Posts
Yeah go try to get the stars and we'll see. (Not flaming.) The last stars aren't so easy.
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mjarantilla

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#9 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.
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bobderwood97_1

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#10 bobderwood97_1
Member since 2003 • 964 Posts

there are in fact 241 stars. you have a ways to go. i will say that playing as luigi is substantially harder due to the fact he slides everywhere. His higher jumping ability does make some levels easier.frankeyser

Wow, I did not know that there was 241 stars, I was under the impression that there were only 120.

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Hockey_Slayer

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#11 Hockey_Slayer
Member since 2004 • 3213 Posts

[QUOTE="frankeyser"]there are in fact 241 stars. you have a ways to go. i will say that playing as luigi is substantially harder due to the fact he slides everywhere. His higher jumping ability does make some levels easier.bobderwood97_1

Wow, I did not know that there was 241 stars, I was under the impression that there were only 120.

Yea you play as Luigi.
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bobderwood97_1

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#12 bobderwood97_1
Member since 2003 • 964 Posts

if difficulty was what core games are about i guess bioshock isn't a core game either.

SMG has some very tough levels. sure there's plenty of extra lives but so what? that just allow you to skip the boring parts and get back to trying to beat the level. the mix of difficulties and variety of level designs were great.

Ontain

But Bioshock has differnet levels of difficulty, yes you are basicly given infinate lives, but thats because its a shooter and not a platformer. I only rented bioshock and beat it on normal, and although I thought that overall it was relitivly easy, I thought that it still had some challenging parts, i.e. big daddys.

When I play a platformer I like it to feel ballanced between dificulty and amount of lives, not that I can screw up as much as I want and have virtually no concequences.

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WllDan7

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#13 WllDan7
Member since 2004 • 2581 Posts

[QUOTE="frankeyser"]there are in fact 241 stars. you have a ways to go. i will say that playing as luigi is substantially harder due to the fact he slides everywhere. His higher jumping ability does make some levels easier.bobderwood97_1

Wow, I did not know that there was 241 stars, I was under the impression that there were only 120.

Pick that controller back up and go play. It is only a casual game if you just gets the first 60. The prankstars and higher levels bring up the difficulty.

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bobderwood97_1

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#14 bobderwood97_1
Member since 2003 • 964 Posts

Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.mjarantilla

Examples?

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UDA1983

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#15 UDA1983
Member since 2005 • 859 Posts
[QUOTE="bobderwood97_1"]

[QUOTE="frankeyser"]there are in fact 241 stars. you have a ways to go. i will say that playing as luigi is substantially harder due to the fact he slides everywhere. His higher jumping ability does make some levels easier.WllDan7

Wow, I did not know that there was 241 stars, I was under the impression that there were only 120.

Pick that controller back up and go play. It is only a casual game if you just gets the first 60. The prankstars and higher levels bring up the difficulty.

Actually it's 242 stars...

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travt-down

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#16 travt-down
Member since 2008 • 1549 Posts

You know 70 is only a bit more than half of 120. And 120 is only half the game....

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Ontain

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#17 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts
[QUOTE="Ontain"]

if difficulty was what core games are about i guess bioshock isn't a core game either.

SMG has some very tough levels. sure there's plenty of extra lives but so what? that just allow you to skip the boring parts and get back to trying to beat the level. the mix of difficulties and variety of level designs were great.

bobderwood97_1

But Bioshock has differnet levels of difficulty, yes you are basicly given infinate lives, but thats because its a shooter and not a platformer. I only rented bioshock and beat it on normal, and although I thought that overall it was relitivly easy, I thought that it still had some challenging parts, i.e. big daddys.

When I play a platformer I like it to feel ballanced between dificulty and amount of lives, not that I can screw up as much as I want and have virtually no concequences.

the consequence is that you lose time. lives don't mean much in most games these days since most you just load up from a save. lives are in SMG more as a nostalgia than anything. that's why when you load your game you're back to 4 lives. the challenge comes from getting all the stars. to do that you'll have to get through a lot of tough levels. (i thought some of the green stars were very tough)

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travt-down

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#18 travt-down
Member since 2008 • 1549 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.bobderwood97_1

Examples?

Most every game released post-SNES era are easy. Save points, unlimited continues, etc. That crap didnt fly back in the old days.

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Ontain

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#19 Ontain
Member since 2005 • 25501 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.bobderwood97_1

Examples?

R&C was reviewed to be ridiculously easy.

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mjarantilla

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#20 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.bobderwood97_1

Examples?

Just one example: Assassin's Creed. Hold down "Run," and you can go anywhere. Hold down "Parry," and you're invulnerable. I've never seen a game that worked so hard to be so easy before. At one point I fought off at least 25 guards standing outside Acre without taking a hit. And THIS game got a 9.0.

And corridor shooters have always been casual friendly. Short, instant-action campaigns that deliver action in brief bursts for the ADD-audience. Even multiplayer is like that: short and quick matches that favor impulse over intellect.

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bobderwood97_1

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#21 bobderwood97_1
Member since 2003 • 964 Posts
[QUOTE="bobderwood97_1"]

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.Ontain

You mean the new one, right? Because I thought that the old ones were kinda challenging.

Examples?

R&C was reviewed to be ridiculously easy.

You mean the new one, right? Because I thought the old ones were kinda challenging.

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bobderwood97_1

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#22 bobderwood97_1
Member since 2003 • 964 Posts
[QUOTE="bobderwood97_1"]

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.travt-down

Examples?

Most every game released post-SNES era are easy. Save points, unlimited continues, etc. That crap didnt fly back in the old days.

Well in Mario 3 if you lose all your lives you just start back at the beginning of the world your on, and your allowed to re-try as much as you want. That's a game from the old days that had (if I'm to put a name to it) checkpoints and unlimited continues (unless they updated the virtual console to have those things), and yet I find Mario 3 to be challenging.

Now I know that I might sound like I'm splitting hairs here, but I think that those things are ok, if implemented correctly. Save points and stuff like that do make games easier, but they reduce frustration too. The thing is balance between those two, and that's most important, keeping the challenge there while reducing frustration as much as possible. I thought that what I had played in Mario Galaxy had reduced the challenge too much, it was fun, but beating the final Bowser on my first try was actually a little disappointing. This is the first Mario game where I was able to do that.

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darkstar0155

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#23 darkstar0155
Member since 2005 • 154 Posts
[QUOTE="travt-down"][QUOTE="bobderwood97_1"]

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Is this a joke? Have you even SEEN the games coming out on other platforms? If SMG is casual friendly, then they're practically s....ok, I'll get permabanned if I say THAT, but yeah, the games on other platforms are ridiculously easy and casualized.bobderwood97_1

Examples?

Most every game released post-SNES era are easy. Save points, unlimited continues, etc. That crap didnt fly back in the old days.

Well in Mario 3 if you lose all your lives you just start back at the beginning of the world your on, and your allowed to re-try as much as you want. That's a game from the old days that had (if I'm to put a name to it) checkpoints and unlimited continues (unless they updated the virtual console to have those things), and yet I find Mario 3 to be challenging.

Now I know that I might sound like I'm splitting hairs here, but I think that those things are ok, if implemented correctly. Save points and stuff like that do make games easier, but they reduce frustration too. The thing is balance between those two, and that's most important, keeping the challenge there while reducing frustration as much as possible. I thought that what I had played in Mario Galaxy had reduced the challenge too much, it was fun, but beating the final Bowser on my first try was actually a little disappointing. This is the first Mario game where I was able to do that.

i think that most 3d games are easy(with a few exceptions) its just that they are longer. Most of those old 2d games were harder than most games in 3d but shorter. I think alot of it is the fact that in 3d you can just run around alot of the obstacles/enemies in your way but when your playin in 2d you have to deal with the problems in front of you. From what i remember, i think mario 64 and galaxy are just about even when it comes to difficulty. Although i think galaxy might barely beat it out with all the post 60star challenges that definitly get harder as you cross the 100 star mark. Im pretty sure i beat bowser on my first try in mario 64 aswell. Although from the time i put in with sunshine (never finished) i think that sunshine is harder than 64 and galaxy.

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MrDziekuje

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#24 MrDziekuje
Member since 2004 • 7730 Posts
There's 242 stars (121 for both characters) and the difficutly gets upped big time when you get to the last twenty or thirty for each of them. Plus Lugi's whole game is a bit harder. I doubt there's a casual out there willing to sit through all of that. Hell, I'm still working at it little by little (I'm into other games atm).
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Silenthps

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#25 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts
some of the stars in mario galaxy are extremely hard. some had me thinking they were next to impossible
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YellowPik

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#26 YellowPik
Member since 2004 • 14169 Posts
Everything Ive heard about the game is that it gets really hard at the end, or at least once you get near 100%. Either way, difficulty is over rated. I'd rather have a quality game that I could easily enjoy, than a hard mediocre game.
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#27 dam999
Member since 2005 • 100 Posts
i got bored after about 40 stars it was so easy just thought whats da point now with super mario 64 that was challenging n u really wanted 2 get all 120 stars with galaxy its like yeah so what
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JPOBS

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#28 JPOBS
Member since 2007 • 9675 Posts
they thought today's controllers were to difficult for the casual gamer to pick up and easily enjoy and become accustomed to, thus the change for wii controls. Likewise, this has transfered over to games. why would they make challenging games on a console designed with the gaming illiterate in mind?
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#29 beast667
Member since 2005 • 3397 Posts
some of the stars in mario galaxy are extremely hard. some had me thinking they were next to impossibleSilenthps
the purple coin star in Toy Galaxy must have took me 20 tries at least.
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#30 Shinobishyguy
Member since 2006 • 22928 Posts

1. first 60 or so stars are cake. The last 60 or so end up becoming difficult

2. 2d platformers as a whole have always been harder than 3d platformers.

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Pangster007

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#31 Pangster007
Member since 2004 • 4426 Posts
[QUOTE="WllDan7"][QUOTE="bobderwood97_1"]

[QUOTE="frankeyser"]there are in fact 241 stars. you have a ways to go. i will say that playing as luigi is substantially harder due to the fact he slides everywhere. His higher jumping ability does make some levels easier.UDA1983

Wow, I did not know that there was 241 stars, I was under the impression that there were only 120.

Pick that controller back up and go play. It is only a casual game if you just gets the first 60. The prankstars and higher levels bring up the difficulty.

Actually it's 242 stars...

What i was about to say...
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#32 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64054 Posts
The thing is the game gets harder the closer you get to 120. After that there is playing the game as Luigi. Who is faster and jumps farther, but he slows down slower as well and his timing is different on each level versus Mario.

But the way the game is designed, the way the game is filled with so much content, the way Nintendo focused on every little detail i think Nintendo did a great job and Miyamoto still makes games for the core gamers. Just because Mario isnt Ninja Gaiden hard doesnt mean its not a core game.

Mario Galaxy was well done, had alot of effort put into it, felt refreshing, was the only game IMO that didnt have some kind of major dissapointment last year, and was my GOTY personally.
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hiphops_savior

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#33 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts
Not another thread that's accusing Nintendo of "selling" out.
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#34 goblaa
Member since 2006 • 19304 Posts
Getting those last 20 stars is really really hard....especially as luigi.