Does't Blu ray harm game developers, and hence the quality of games.

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yuna707

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#1 yuna707
Member since 2004 • 562 Posts
Currently, the cheapest 25 gb blu ray disc i could fine, was 17 USD. Cut the middleman, buy in bulk e.t.c. and its probably around 12 USD. Thats 12 dollars less per game that could've been spent improving.So for every 1 million games sold, the developer loses 12 USD!
Isn't this contradictory to blu-ray helping gaming improve. If companies are forced to spend more initially, it means they have to cut corners!

In the meantime, Blu Ray is expensive, turning away developers to the Wii/Xbox 360, or forcing them to cut corners. There are many small dedicated game companies, who can't afford, or are unwilling to cut corners. Blu ray is an ultimatum- sacrifice your vision of your game, or eek out profits. Developers who turn to the X360/Wii, are less likely to develop for the PS3 in the future, because even when the costs die down, they will have more experience with the console they were virtually FORCED too.
It reminds me of the N64/Ps1 situation, where the catridges forced many developers to turn to the PS1.(Catridges were more expensive for one thing). Blu ray could FORCE developers to turn away from the PS3, and when the costs die down, the DAMAGE will be done. The problems of Blu ray seem short term but could leave lasting scars. HIGHER COSTS means either less quality or less profit. Which is detrimental to many smaller developers, meaning they are much more likely to seek lower expenses in developing Wii/xbox 360 or PS2.

Developers who have already developed, or in the proccess, are getting burned by the cost, which would leave them with bad experiences with the PS3, which may be enough to deter them from developing for the PS3 again.
 

http://www.supermediastore.com/blue-ray-blu-ray-dvd-media-recorder.html
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ProductNumber49

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#2 ProductNumber49
Member since 2006 • 3840 Posts
Currently, the cheapest 25 gb blu ray disc i could fine, was 17 USD. Cut the middleman, buy in bulk e.t.c. and its probably around 12 USD. Thats 12 dollars less per game that could've been spent improving.So for every 1 million games sold, the developer loses 12 USD!
Isn't this contradictory to blu-ray helping gaming improve. If companies are forced to spend more initially, it means they have to cut corners!

http://www.supermediastore.com/blue-ray-blu-ray-dvd-media-recorder.html
yuna707
good point, never thought of that
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BigDizz

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#3 BigDizz
Member since 2004 • 2592 Posts

Long stretch for a bad bash.

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AfterShafter

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#4 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

Long stretch for your bad bash.

BigDizz
Explain? Do Blu Ray disks cost less than he is claiming? I really don't know.   He's being a little sensationalist with his premise, and I am 95% sure he's a fanboy just trying to bash, but that doesn't mean his premise is wrong.
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tegovoltio

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#5 tegovoltio
Member since 2004 • 9280 Posts
You see, I'll give you a hint,

When you go to the grocery store/supermarket, whatever any article costs you is not the same that it costs to the provider.

So you don't know how much the devs. get blank BRs for.
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yuna707

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#6 yuna707
Member since 2004 • 562 Posts
A 20% increase in production costs, would deter many developers, or force them to cut corners. Hence if new developers or undecided developers, might not want to develop for the PS3. even when Blu ray discs costs come down, those than based their decisions beforehand, would have no experience developing for the bloated cell proccessor, and be another turn-off
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cobrax25

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#7 cobrax25
Member since 2006 • 9649 Posts
manufacturing Disks is always very cheap, I dont know about Blue-Ray, but DVD is like 5 cents. But if Blue-Ray isnt that expensive, then I doubt there is so much of a difference.
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yuna707

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#8 yuna707
Member since 2004 • 562 Posts
You see, I'll give you a hint,

When you go to the grocery store/supermarket, whatever any article costs you is not the same that it costs to the provider.

So you don't know how much the devs. get blank BRs for.
tegovoltio
Hint Hint, damage control. I'm being very generous by giving developers a 30% reduction off the cheapest RRP disc.
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Dragonblade01

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#9 Dragonblade01
Member since 2004 • 5747 Posts
it might hinder it at first (maybe, i don't know) but it won't be a problem for sure when the price comes down (which it inevitably will)
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BigDizz

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#10 BigDizz
Member since 2004 • 2592 Posts
[QUOTE="BigDizz"]

Long stretch for your bad bash.

AfterShafter

Explain? Do Blu Ray disks cost less than he is claiming? I really don't know.   He's being a little sensationalist with his premise, and I am 95% sure he's a fanboy just trying to bash, but that doesn't mean his premise is wrong.

I'm sure sony would supply blu ray to a dev for a promised exclusive these days LoL

:lol:

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yuna707

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#11 yuna707
Member since 2004 • 562 Posts
[QUOTE="BigDizz"]

Long stretch for your bad bash.

AfterShafter
Explain? Do Blu Ray disks cost less than he is claiming? I really don't know. He's being a little sensationalist with his premise, and I am 95% sure he's a fanboy just trying to bash, but that doesn't mean his premise is wrong.

Fanboy trying to bash? I'm not being sensationalistic, I'm taking it from a financial viewpoint, and hereby pointing out the hypocrisy of Blu ray
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Twisted_Hawk

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#12 Twisted_Hawk
Member since 2005 • 579 Posts
it might hinder it at first (maybe, i don't know) but it won't be a problem for sure when the price comes down (which it inevitably will)Dragonblade01
Fanboy
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tegovoltio

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#13 tegovoltio
Member since 2004 • 9280 Posts
You see, I'll give you a hint,

When you go to the grocery store/supermarket, whatever any article costs you is not the same that it costs to the provider.

So you don't know how much the devs. get blank BRs for.
tegovoltio
Uhh so tell me, do you know how devs. get blank BR supplied? and the price?
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AfterShafter

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#14 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
[QUOTE="AfterShafter"][QUOTE="BigDizz"]

Long stretch for your bad bash.

BigDizz

Explain? Do Blu Ray disks cost less than he is claiming? I really don't know.   He's being a little sensationalist with his premise, and I am 95% sure he's a fanboy just trying to bash, but that doesn't mean his premise is wrong.

I'm sure sony would supply blu ray to a dev for a promised exclusive these days LoL

:lol:

I've never heard of any console developer supplying storage mediums to game developers for free ever, under any circumstances. Do you have any evidence to the contrary, or just speculation and a big stupid looking smiley?
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Dragonblade01

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#15 Dragonblade01
Member since 2004 • 5747 Posts
[QUOTE="Dragonblade01"]it might hinder it at first (maybe, i don't know) but it won't be a problem for sure when the price comes down (which it inevitably will)Twisted_Hawk
Fanboy


oh dear
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AfterShafter

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#16 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
[QUOTE="AfterShafter"][QUOTE="BigDizz"]

Long stretch for your bad bash.

yuna707
Explain? Do Blu Ray disks cost less than he is claiming? I really don't know. He's being a little sensationalist with his premise, and I am 95% sure he's a fanboy just trying to bash, but that doesn't mean his premise is wrong.

Fanboy trying to bash? I'm not being sensationalistic, I'm taking it from a financial viewpoint, and hereby pointing out the hypocrisy of Blu ray

But looking at it very short term. If you were giving an honest assessment of the situation, I suspect you'd try and factor in future decreases in cost of a Blu Ray disk which is bound to happen... But instead you're sitting here doing what looks like casting judgement on the entire PS3 lifespan, which to me, seems a bit hasty - Blu Ray will decrease in cost *significantly* before the end of the PS3's lifespan. I think you're a fanboy trying to troll. That doesn't mean I think you're completely wrong, just thta I think you're pushing your case a little further than its merits warrant.
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Perception1

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#17 Perception1
Member since 2006 • 1010 Posts
Got a question

The PS3 reads DVD's as well, so couldn't some companies just release some games on DVD if thats the case?


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AfterShafter

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#18 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
Got a question

The PS3 reads DVD's as well, so couldn't some companies just release some games on DVD if thats the case?


Perception1
Several PS3 games have already been small enough to fit on a DVD... None of them have been on DVDs. We'll see if any developers actually put them on DVDs.
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tegovoltio

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#19 tegovoltio
Member since 2004 • 9280 Posts
Got a question

The PS3 reads DVD's as well, so couldn't some companies just release some games on DVD if thats the case?


Perception1
[QUOTE="Perception1"]Got a question

The PS3 reads DVD's as well, so couldn't some companies just release some games on DVD if thats the case?


AfterShafter
Several PS3 games have already been small enough to fit on a DVD... None of them have been on DVDs. We'll see if any developers actually put them on DVDs.

They can't because Sony made it so that devs. could only dev. on BR
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cobrax25

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#20 cobrax25
Member since 2006 • 9649 Posts
Got a question

The PS3 reads DVD's as well, so couldn't some companies just release some games on DVD if thats the case?


Perception1
Pretty sure Sony doesnt allow it. Which makes sence, since they are trying to push the Blue-Ray format.
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AfterShafter

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#21 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
[QUOTE="tegovoltio"] They can't because Sony made it so that devs. could only dev. on BR

Well, that would explain it. Have any documentation about this?
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#22 Tamarind_Face
Member since 2007 • 2270 Posts
Currently, the cheapest 25 gb blu ray disc i could fine, was 17 USD. Cut the middleman, buy in bulk e.t.c. and its probably around 12 USD. Thats 12 dollars less per game that could've been spent improving.So for every 1 million games sold, the developer loses 12 USD!
Isn't this contradictory to blu-ray helping gaming improve. If companies are forced to spend more initially, it means they have to cut corners!

http://www.supermediastore.com/blue-ray-blu-ray-dvd-media-recorder.html
yuna707
Wow you dont have any idea what you are talking about...by the way your a girl? i like girls:oops:
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AfterShafter

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#23 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
Wow you dont have any idea what you are talking about...by the way your a girl? i like girls:oops:
Tamarind_Face
Refute his/her points, perhaps?
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yuna707

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#24 yuna707
Member since 2004 • 562 Posts
In the meantime, Blu Ray is expensive, turning away developers to the Wii/Xbox 360, or forcing them to cut corners. There are many small dedicated game companies, who can't afford, or are unwilling to cut corners. Blu ray is an ultimatum- sacrifice your vision of your game, or eek out profits. Developers who turn to the X360/Wii, are less likely to develop for the PS3 in the future, because even when the costs die down, they will have more experience with the console they were virtually FORCED too.
It reminds me of the N64/Ps1 situation, where the catridges forced many developers to turn to the PS1.(Catridges were more expensive for one thing). Blu ray could FORCE developers to turn away from the PS3, and when the costs die down, the DAMAGE will be done. The problems of Blu ray seem short term but could leave lasting scars. HIGHER COSTS means either less quality or less profit. Which is detrimental to many smaller developers, meaning they are much more likely to seek lower expenses in developing Wii/xbox 360 or PS2
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AfterShafter

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#25 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts

In the meantime, Blu Ray is expensive, turning away developers to the Wii/Xbox 360, or forcing them to cut corners. There are many small dedicated game companies, who can't afford, or are unwilling to cut corners. Blu ray is an ultimatum- sacrifice your vision of your game, or eek out profits. Developers who turn to the X360/Wii, are less likely to develop for the PS3 in the future, because even when the costs die down, they will have more experience with the console they were virtually FORCED too.
It reminds me of the N64/Ps1 situation, where the catridges forced many developers to turn to the PS1.(Catridges were more expensive for one thing). Blu ray could FORCE developers to turn away from the PS3, and when the costs die down, the DAMAGE will be done. The problems of Blu ray seem short term but could leave lasting scars. HIGHER COSTS means either less quality or less profit. Which is detrimental to many smaller developers, meaning they are much more likely to seek lower expenses in developing Wii/xbox 360 or PS2
yuna707
Well, several factors to consider... For one, 30% is an incredibly small margin to factor in for the middleman. In many technology sales, Middlemen count for up to 90% of the cost (do some reading on production costs of a $2000 laptop for kicks).

I'm not saying you're wrong, but immediate fees are weighed against both short term technology advantages (Blu Ray does have a storage benefit - not worth much, I agree, but worth something, especially for marketing) and long term investment. To further explain long term investment, if at this very moment, the console that company X expects to win in the long term costs them more to develop for, then in the long term it is better to support that console rather than jump for the cheaper current medium. Sure it costs more now, but establishing a name on what they expect to be the winning console is worth more than a higher development fee in the short term.

Now, I don't expect the PS3 to win... I don't rule out the possibility, but I don't expect it. Developers have a lot of information we don't though, so who knows - maybe developing in Blu Ray is the best projected long term investment, whether we know it or not. Even though I think your point is a valid one, and many of the idiots raising token fanboy opposition to it are really just a bunch of fanboys, I still think you're missing some of the variables with your evaluation of the situation.

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lightningbugx

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#26 lightningbugx
Member since 2005 • 627 Posts
I doubt it is the manufacturing cost of a Blu-Ray disc that is harming developers.  I believe it is the licensing cost that Sony needs in order to recoup the manufacturing costs of each PS3.
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#27 Tamarind_Face
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In the meantime, Blu Ray is expensive, turning away developers to the Wii/Xbox 360, or forcing them to cut corners. There are many small dedicated game companies, who can't afford, or are unwilling to cut corners. Blu ray is an ultimatum- sacrifice your vision of your game, or eek out profits. Developers who turn to the X360/Wii, are less likely to develop for the PS3 in the future, because even when the costs die down, they will have more experience with the console they were virtually FORCED too.
It reminds me of the N64/Ps1 situation, where the catridges forced many developers to turn to the PS1.(Catridges were more expensive for one thing). Blu ray could FORCE developers to turn away from the PS3, and when the costs die down, the DAMAGE will be done. The problems of Blu ray seem short term but could leave lasting scars. HIGHER COSTS means either less quality or less profit. Which is detrimental to many smaller developers, meaning they are much more likely to seek lower expenses in developing Wii/xbox 360 or PS2
yuna707
You didnt even answer my question,:(

Maybe you dont like me:cry:

PS: Blu ray pwns
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Bgrngod

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#28 Bgrngod
Member since 2002 • 5766 Posts
This entire thread all hinges on what devs/publishers have to pay for blank BDR disks. Anyone have any clue what percentage of your $60 goes toward buying the media its on?
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Tiefster

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#29 Tiefster
Member since 2005 • 14639 Posts
1 BD may cost $17 but its better than wasting the money for extra packaging and extra DVD9s for a 19 + GB game.  More space is always good for developers even if it is a Sony format.
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yuna707

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#30 yuna707
Member since 2004 • 562 Posts
1 BD may cost $17 but its better than wasting the money for extra packaging and extra DVD9s for a 19 + GB game. More space is always good for developers even if it is a Sony format.Tiefster
You're kidding me, right? Dvds are like 20 c, and extra packaging does not contribute anywhere near as much as BD disc. It is unknown how much is the raw price of BD, but even with a 100% markup, 8.50 is quite the sum, considering how most businesses have small profit margins,
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#31 mestizoman
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[QUOTE="tegovoltio"]You see, I'll give you a hint,

When you go to the grocery store/supermarket, whatever any article costs you is not the same that it costs to the provider.

So you don't know how much the devs. get blank BRs for.
yuna707
Hint Hint, damage control. I'm being very generous by giving developers a 30% reduction off the cheapest RRP disc.

:(

please, you dont have any clue what your talking about

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jwcyclone15

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#32 jwcyclone15
Member since 2005 • 1149 Posts
manufacturing Disks is always very cheap, I dont know about Blue-Ray, but DVD is like 5 cents. But if Blue-Ray isnt that expensive, then I doubt there is so much of a difference.cobrax25

If anything Sony gives them some sort of discount....
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ninjiijitsu

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#33 ninjiijitsu
Member since 2007 • 670 Posts
Someone said on the ps3 gamefaqs board, that sony were providing blu-ray for free.
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lightningbugx

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#34 lightningbugx
Member since 2005 • 627 Posts
Someone said on the ps3 gamefaqs board, that sony were providing blu-ray for free.ninjiijitsu


Not true.  I can say that the disc is free, but you have to pay $30 per game in licensing fees.
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#35 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts
[QUOTE="yuna707"][QUOTE="AfterShafter"][QUOTE="BigDizz"]

Long stretch for your bad bash.

AfterShafter
Explain? Do Blu Ray disks cost less than he is claiming? I really don't know. He's being a little sensationalist with his premise, and I am 95% sure he's a fanboy just trying to bash, but that doesn't mean his premise is wrong.

Fanboy trying to bash? I'm not being sensationalistic, I'm taking it from a financial viewpoint, and hereby pointing out the hypocrisy of Blu ray

But looking at it very short term. If you were giving an honest assessment of the situation, I suspect you'd try and factor in future decreases in cost of a Blu Ray disk which is bound to happen... But instead you're sitting here doing what looks like casting judgement on the entire PS3 lifespan, which to me, seems a bit hasty - Blu Ray will decrease in cost *significantly* before the end of the PS3's lifespan. I think you're a fanboy trying to troll. That doesn't mean I think you're completely wrong, just thta I think you're pushing your case a little further than its merits warrant.

I agree. Still, looking at the situation at this point in time. Whether or not you're a believer of the HD to soon to be in the market situation, do you think Blu-ray could lead itself into that path? I would also like to know about the cost. Can somebody provide some facts about it?
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ArisShadows

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#36 ArisShadows
Member since 2004 • 22784 Posts
[QUOTE="Tamarind_Face"]Wow you dont have any idea what you are talking about...by the way your a girl? i like girls:oops:
AfterShafter
Refute his/her points, perhaps?

Wow that was quite sexist.. So your saying females don't know as much as us males, I swear children today.. Agreed, refute.. --- By the way, interesting post, TC.
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#37 lilrush
Member since 2005 • 1695 Posts
lol 12 USD per blu-ray that's a good one. They don't pay what we pay. They don't even pay what the store pays, even when bought in bulk. They practically pay only for the plastic, and thats all. They probably don't even pay a dollar per blank blu-ray.
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#38 ArisShadows
Member since 2004 • 22784 Posts
lol 12 USD per blu-ray that's a good one. They don't pay what we pay. They don't even pay what the store pays, even when bought in bulk. They practically pay only for the plastic, and thats all. They probably don't even pay a dollar per blank blu-ray.lilrush
Wouldn't make a different. If we buy Item 'A' for 10 dollars and buy Item 'B' for 14 dollars.. but they buy them cheaper, how about Item 'A' 6 dollars, Item 'B' won't be equal or same price that of Item 'A'. So lets guess it 10 dollars.. Still higher, whether or not in bulk or our own buying. People say they get one thing cheaper than we do, but that factors still over for other items, too.
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#39 Aclar00_basic
Member since 2002 • 906 Posts
[QUOTE="yuna707"]Currently, the cheapest 25 gb blu ray disc i could fine, was 17 USD. Cut the middleman, buy in bulk e.t.c. and its probably around 12 USD. Thats 12 dollars less per game that could've been spent improving.So for every 1 million games sold, the developer loses 12 USD!
Isn't this contradictory to blu-ray helping gaming improve. If companies are forced to spend more initially, it means they have to cut corners!

In the meantime, Blu Ray is expensive, turning away developers to the Wii/Xbox 360, or forcing them to cut corners. There are many small dedicated game companies, who can't afford, or are unwilling to cut corners. Blu ray is an ultimatum- sacrifice your vision of your game, or eek out profits. Developers who turn to the X360/Wii, are less likely to develop for the PS3 in the future, because even when the costs die down, they will have more experience with the console they were virtually FORCED too.
It reminds me of the N64/Ps1 situation, where the catridges forced many developers to turn to the PS1.(Catridges were more expensive for one thing). Blu ray could FORCE developers to turn away from the PS3, and when the costs die down, the DAMAGE will be done. The problems of Blu ray seem short term but could leave lasting scars. HIGHER COSTS means either less quality or less profit. Which is detrimental to many smaller developers, meaning they are much more likely to seek lower expenses in developing Wii/xbox 360 or PS2.

Developers who have already developed, or in the proccess, are getting burned by the cost, which would leave them with bad experiences with the PS3, which may be enough to deter them from developing for the PS3 again.
 

http://www.supermediastore.com/blue-ray-blu-ray-dvd-media-recorder.html

Blank media cost to consumers has nothing to do with sales and cost per disk from movie or video game production
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#40 lilrush
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[QUOTE="lilrush"]lol 12 USD per blu-ray that's a good one. They don't pay what we pay. They don't even pay what the store pays, even when bought in bulk. They practically pay only for the plastic, and thats all. They probably don't even pay a dollar per blank blu-ray.ArisShadows
Wouldn't make a different. If we buy Item 'A' for 10 dollars and buy Item 'B' for 14 dollars.. but they buy them cheaper, how about Item 'A' 6 dollars, Item 'B' won't be equal or same price that of Item 'A'. So lets guess it 10 dollars.. Still higher, whether or not in bulk or our own buying. People say they get one thing cheaper than we do, but that factors still over for other items, too.

Yeah but he's still way off. It's like 1.40 US, just google blu-ray production cost.
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deactivated-61ff675e61178

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#41 deactivated-61ff675e61178
Member since 2004 • 12558 Posts
Yeah, it only costs about $1.50 per disc to mass produce Blu-Ray discs. :? They charge that much because it is new technology and they can get away with it. ;)
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#42 cheezisgoooood
Member since 2004 • 6130 Posts
Blu-Ray don't cost 12 dollars to manufacture...Why do people make topics about economics when they don't have a clue what they're talking about? Humans are disappointing.
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#43 Aclar00_basic
Member since 2002 • 906 Posts
Blu-Ray don't cost 12 dollars to manufacture...Why do people make topics about economics when they don't have a clue what they're talking about? Humans are disappointing.cheezisgoooood
Thank you...they would lose tons of money too, though im sure their yields are high, they would still lose a significant amount of money per disc for the warped or unusuable disc