EGM writer's choice words for GT5.

I havent played GT5 before but I have heard that it is supposed to be one of the most realistic driving experiences ever. But a writer who featured GT5 in EGM thinks otherwise...

"I have always felt that Gran Turismo cars oversteer and dont weigh enough, leaving them feeling stiff and unrealistic. The obvious measuring stick is the physics engine in the Forza series, which is particularly gratifying in tight corners, where the weight is shifted over the wheel base. I know that many GT5 fans wont agree with me, and this game for them will probably feel right at home."

"Kart Racing is fun in GT5, but it further cemented my opinion about the physics engine being in dire need of an overhaul".

Is he right? Is the Forza series the obvious measuring stick in physics? Is GT5 in "dire need of an overhaul"?

dude link man because people will want a linkpain_naruto

so its not as good as they are touting..... Forza the definitive racer is going to win out ...

Several racing fanatic groups have praised the physics. There was even an instance where an actual racer played the game. He got almost the exact same time on the simulation as in real life. There's more saying that the physics are great then there is saying they aren't.hexashadow13

[QUOTE="hexashadow13"]Several racing fanatic groups have praised the physics. There was even an instance where an actual racer played the game. He got almost the exact same time on the simulation as in real life. There's more saying that the physics are great then there is saying they aren't.DJ_Lae

yep and maybe this is why they delayed without a release date...

[QUOTE="DJ_Lae"][QUOTE="hexashadow13"]Several racing fanatic groups have praised the physics. There was even an instance where an actual racer played the game. He got almost the exact same time on the simulation as in real life. There's more saying that the physics are great then there is saying they aren't.ProjectNatalFan

yep and maybe this is why they delayed without a release date...

I havent played GT5 before but I have heard that it is supposed to be one of the most realistic driving experiences ever. But a writer who featured GT5 in EGM thinks otherwise...

"I have always felt that Gran Turismo cars oversteer and dont weigh enough, leaving them feeling stiff and unrealistic. The obvious measuring stick is the physics engine in the Forza series, which is particularly gratifying in tight corners, where the weight is shifted over the wheel base. I know that many GT5 fans wont agree with me, and this game for them will probably feel right at home."

"Kart Racing is fun in GT5, but it further cemented my opinion about the physics engine being in dire need of an overhaul".

Is he right? Is the Forza series the obvious measuring stick in physics? Is GT5 in "dire need of an overhaul"?

gaming25

[QUOTE="DJ_Lae"][QUOTE="hexashadow13"]Several racing fanatic groups have praised the physics. There was even an instance where an actual racer played the game. He got almost the exact same time on the simulation as in real life. There's more saying that the physics are great then there is saying they aren't.ProjectNatalFan

yep and maybe this is why they delayed without a release date...

[QUOTE="gaming25"]

I havent played GT5 before but I have heard that it is supposed to be one of the most realistic driving experiences ever. But a writer who featured GT5 in EGM thinks otherwise...

"I have always felt that Gran Turismo cars oversteer and dont weigh enough, leaving them feeling stiff and unrealistic. The obvious measuring stick is the physics engine in the Forza series, which is particularly gratifying in tight corners, where the weight is shifted over the wheel base. I know that many GT5 fans wont agree with me, and this game for them will probably feel right at home."

"Kart Racing is fun in GT5, but it further cemented my opinion about the physics engine being in dire need of an overhaul".

Is he right? Is the Forza series the obvious measuring stick in physics? Is GT5 in "dire need of an overhaul"?

ChiChiMonKilla

[QUOTE="pain_naruto"]dude link man because people will want a linkgaming25

How can a car feel like it is both oversteering and stiff?

The physics feel fine in Prologue, weight can be adjusted, as can other aspects of the vehicle.

It sounds to me like he finds Forza easier, thus to him it feels better. But easier =/= more realistic.

That statement encapsulates everything I've felt was..."off" about the physics engine in the Gran Turismo series.

Forza has always felt tighter, more weighty than GT and that's because it's extremely easy to oversteer in the GT series. Even slight movements of the analog stick can result in catastrophic loss of control at high speeds and when you move to correct, you end up over-correcting and spinning out. In Forza, that's not a problem I have anywhere near as often and when I do end up oversteering and spinning out, I feel like it's more a result of my own errors as a driver and less of a legitimate fault in the physics engine.

I got my hands on the kiosk demo at Gamestop yesterday, and it felt very similar to previous GT games (which to me, isn't a good thing; the driving model there is archaic by modern standards). I tried driving with no assists, and normal tires in the Enzo around the Nurburgring... I lost control almost whenever I tried to turn. "Throttle control" isn't even an issue, its the pure lack of grip the tires give. My other big problem was that the face buttons were used for acceleration/deceleration, and the triggers were used for shifting (I *really* hope that the triggers can be used for accel/decel). On top of that, there was no clutch-shifting option and the shifting animation was very weird (the hands spent more time on the shifters than on the wheel, even in corners).

Plus, any bump was heavily over-emphasized, and the car was just shaking uncontrollably at times. Either they are trying to make you "feel" more like you are in an actual car (much like how they used over-emphasized braking motion in GT4), or their physics model is really off. I'll probably go with the former... though, it is weird considering that is something you would normally "feel" while driving, not see.

There is definitely a lot of depth there... but it has me wondering how "accurate" to real life the physics actually are, considering in "real" racing sims like GTR2, I've never had that kind of problem with grip and spinning out before.

I got my hands on the kiosk demo at Gamestop yesterday, and it felt very similar to previous GT games (which to me, isn't a good thing; the driving model there is archaic by modern standards). I tried driving with no assists, and normal tires in the Enzo around the Nurburgring... I lost control almost whenever I tried to turn. "Throttle control" isn't even an issue, its the pure lack of grip the tires give. My other big problem was that the face buttons were used for acceleration/deceleration, and the triggers were used for shifting (I *really* hope that the triggers can be used for accel/decel). On top of that, there was no clutch-shifting option and the shifting animation was very weird (the hands spent more time on the shifters than on the wheel, even in corners).

Plus, any bump was heavily over-emphasized, and the car was just shaking uncontrollably at times. Either they are trying to make you "feel" more like you are in an actual car (much like how they used over-emphasized braking motion in GT4), or their physics model is really off. I'll probably go with the former... though, it is weird considering that is something you would normally "feel" while driving, not see.

There is definitely a lot of depth there... but it has me wondering how "accurate" to real life the physics actually are, considering in "real" racing sims like GTR2, I've never had that kind of problem with grip and spinning out before.

foxhound_fox

How can throttle control not be an issue when you are using face buttons? In GT5:P the buttons are fully mappable, so of course you can use trigger. The kiosk was probably set for GT fans, who would be used to the face buttons, but I find them unusable for a racing game.

How can throttle control not be an issue when you are using face buttons? In GT5:P the buttons are fully mappable, so of course you can use trigger. The kiosk was probably set for GT fans, who would be used to the face buttons, but I find them unusable for a racing game.

Pug-Nasty

1 man contradicts what every other person who has played the game says, and we believe him?

Gotta love SW. :lol:

1 man contradicts what every other person who has played the game says, and we believe him?

Gotta love SW. :lol:

Pbjb989

[QUOTE="gaming25"][QUOTE="pain_naruto"]dude link man because people will want a linkpain_naruto

That statement encapsulates everything I've felt was..."off" about the physics engine in the Gran Turismo series.

Forza has always felt tighter, more weighty than GT and that's because it's extremely easy to oversteer in the GT series. Even slight movements of the analog stick can result in catastrophic loss of control at high speeds and when you move to correct, you end up over-correcting and spinning out. In Forza, that's not a problem I have anywhere near as often and when I do end up oversteering and spinning out, I feel like it's more a result of my own errors as a driver and less of a legitimate fault in the physics engine.

The_Game21x

You're just making things up. It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

[QUOTE="Pbjb989"]

1 man contradicts what every other person who has played the game says, and we believe him?

Gotta love SW. :lol:

The_Game21x

Heh, pretty much all I've heard since the physics demo came out that GT5's new physics engine was great.

I'm no expert, I don't play many sims, but it felt good to me.

There are more professional opinions out there though. Link.

"the Time Trial Challenge allows us to try out the new driving physics, and man, this thing handles like a dream."

"The new driving model is, from what I can make of it right now, phenomenal. It'll take some time with another few dozen cars to see how it holds up across multiple vehicle models, but if this is a sign of what's to come, Polyphony has outdone itself."

Couple more here.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

That statement encapsulates everything I've felt was..."off" about the physics engine in the Gran Turismo series.

Forza has always felt tighter, more weighty than GT and that's because it's extremely easy to oversteer in the GT series. Even slight movements of the analog stick can result in catastrophic loss of control at high speeds and when you move to correct, you end up over-correcting and spinning out. In Forza, that's not a problem I have anywhere near as often and when I do end up oversteering and spinning out, I feel like it's more a result of my own errors as a driver and less of a legitimate fault in the physics engine.

zero_snake99

You're just making things up. It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

Yes, my opinion disagrees with your so obviously, I'm making things up. I couldn't possibly be drawing from years of experience with the franchise as a whole. No sir... I'm making things up to denigrate the franchise. Right :roll:

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="Pbjb989"]

1 man contradicts what every other person who has played the game says, and we believe him?

Gotta love SW. :lol:

gaming25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

zero_snake99

This is true.

I got my hands on the kiosk demo at Gamestop yesterday, and it felt very similar to previous GT games (which to me, isn't a good thing; the driving model there is archaic by modern standards). I tried driving with no assists, and normal tires in the Enzo around the Nurburgring... I lost control almost whenever I tried to turn. "Throttle control" isn't even an issue, its the pure lack of grip the tires give. My other big problem was that the face buttons were used for acceleration/deceleration, and the triggers were used for shifting (I *really* hope that the triggers can be used for accel/decel). On top of that, there was no clutch-shifting option and the shifting animation was very weird (the hands spent more time on the shifters than on the wheel, even in corners).

Plus, any bump was heavily over-emphasized, and the car was just shaking uncontrollably at times. Either they are trying to make you "feel" more like you are in an actual car (much like how they used over-emphasized braking motion in GT4), or their physics model is really off. I'll probably go with the former... though, it is weird considering that is something you would normally "feel" while driving, not see.

There is definitely a lot of depth there... but it has me wondering how "accurate" to real life the physics actually are, considering in "real" racing sims like GTR2, I've never had that kind of problem with grip and spinning out before.

foxhound_fox

Ok this is laughable at best.

First off, you're driving an ENZO with no assists. Second, using "normal" tires... I'm guessing either N or S tires... Third of all. Have you ever driven ANY sports car? Stiff suspension, especially at high speeds with shake a car to now end.

I frankly don't believe you have played GTR2 either. Keeping in mind GTR2 is still a very flawed game in comparison to newer sims, it's still a great sim that has many things spot on, INCLUDING the exessive shaking that is posed when driving a car.

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"] It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

bleehum

This is true.

Turn ABS and Traction control off?

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"]

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

That statement encapsulates everything I've felt was..."off" about the physics engine in the Gran Turismo series.

Forza has always felt tighter, more weighty than GT and that's because it's extremely easy to oversteer in the GT series. Even slight movements of the analog stick can result in catastrophic loss of control at high speeds and when you move to correct, you end up over-correcting and spinning out. In Forza, that's not a problem I have anywhere near as often and when I do end up oversteering and spinning out, I feel like it's more a result of my own errors as a driver and less of a legitimate fault in the physics engine.

The_Game21x

You're just making things up. It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

Yes, my opinion disagrees with your so obviously, I'm making things up. I couldn't possibly be drawing from years of experience with the franchise as a whole. No sir... I'm making things up to denigrate the franchise. Right :roll:

[QUOTE="bleehum"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"] It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

Pbjb989

This is true.

Turn ABS and Traction control off?

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"]

You're just making things up. It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

zero_snake99

Yes, my opinion disagrees with your so obviously, I'm making things up. I couldn't possibly be drawing from years of experience with the franchise as a whole. No sir... I'm making things up to denigrate the franchise. Right :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

Pbjb989

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

Pbjb989

Great vid. That looks simply amazing. It looks more realistic than Forza 3 to me. In Forza 3 its like the car is floating over the track.

You're just making things up. It's NEVER been easy to oversteer in GT. Not until the Time Trial... GT's physics problems have ALWAYS been because of lacking in ability to oversteer, even in vehicles there were RWD and high torque.

zero_snake99

Ok this is laughable at best.

First off, you're driving an ENZO with no assists. Second, using "normal" tires... I'm guessing either N or S tires... Third of all. Have you ever driven ANY sports car? Stiff suspension, especially at high speeds with shake a car to now end.

I frankly don't believe you have played GTR2 either. Keeping in mind GTR2 is still a very flawed game in comparison to newer sims, it's still a great sim that has many things spot on, INCLUDING the exessive shaking that is posed when driving a car.

zero_snake99

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

Pbjb989

[QUOTE="zero_snake99"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Yes, my opinion disagrees with your so obviously, I'm making things up. I couldn't possibly be drawing from years of experience with the franchise as a whole. No sir... I'm making things up to denigrate the franchise. Right :roll:

The_Game21x

Also, the writer speculates that it was Kaz's (the head dev for GT5) love for cars that got in the way of the interiors for the game on what the writer called "the task at hand". That sounds like a pretty baseless accusation if you ask me.

[QUOTE="Pbjb989"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

killa4lyfe

[QUOTE="killa4lyfe"][QUOTE="Pbjb989"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

gaming25

Doesn't matter if there is rumble in the controller, it's silly to call something less realistic because you need the most realistic interface to experience its full level of realism.

[QUOTE="gaming25"][QUOTE="killa4lyfe"] Well....yeah it kinda is really unrealistic. You can only feel most of those bumps if you're playing with a racing wheel.Pug-Nasty

Doesn't matter if there is rumble in the controller, it's silly to call something less realistic because you need the most realistic interface to experience its full level of realism.

PBjb989 was being sarcastic.

[QUOTE="killa4lyfe"][QUOTE="Pbjb989"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

It's just so unrealistic...

gaming25

I do not agree with the writer's statement. I haven't played GT1 or GT2 so I can't comment on their physics, but the cars in GT3, GT4, and Prologue all have a tendency to understeer, not oversteer. In GT4, the understeer is so bad that I find it unplayable; the cars don't corner and there is no way to adjust them so that they will. Prologue allows most of the cars to oversteer, after making certain adjustments, but the vast majority of the cars will understeer through the corners with default setups (most RWD cars will get power oversteer, if the driver decides to overload the rear tires on corner exit, but when properly driven, they will understeer on exit as well). The exceptions are the Elises, which do have a tendency to oversteer, especially on corner entry. I will agree that the cars do feel light weight. The GT5 demo that is in stores feels completely different from Prologue. The cars feel heavy. The rear end will come around if the car is pushed too hard through a corner. Proper donuts are finally possible. I think, for the most part, the demo feels a lot like PC sims (at least from what I could feel with a controller). I do not trust the writers opinion, and I believe GT5 will feel solid when it comes out.