Eurogamer: Monster Hunter 4 Succeeds Where Destiny Failed

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#1  Edited By deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

Loot is the new level up. A few years ago, people posted about their fourth prestige on Facebook, most probably humming Call of Duty's butt-rock progression jingle as they did so. Come 2015, and my Twitter feed is cut with great swathes of pictures of Destiny's tooled-up future-warriors, owners boasting about their new exotic codpiece, screenshots saturated by more purple than a Prince album cover.

There's a case to be made that this is among gaming's most insidious trends. The line-graph of levelling up - fair pay for a good day's play - has been replaced with what amounts to gambling, your time used as the chips. Loot games are predicated on chance - the feeling of achievement at finding the perfect rocket launcher is far greater than a number going up by one, not least because, often, it'll be the only way you can meaningfully progress through the game. But there's the nagging possibility that it won't come for hours of practically unrewarded busywork.

Of course, if you're happy to put in the time, this is no real issue - particularly when it's put into a game that can feel as good simply to play as Destiny - but it opens some troubling doors for less scrupulous designers. Take Dragon Age: Inquisition's multiplayer. The majority of its characters are locked behind incredibly rare drops, but spend a little real money and you can buy loot booster packs. It's a mere probability increase, you're never promised a rare reward, and what was a time-bet suddenly becomes a higher-stakes affair.

All of which is to say that loot can be done so much better. Well, it has been done better, it's just that the west, players and developers alike, have yet to fully realise ('realise' in this case being used to mean 'creating a land-conquering commercial success').

Monster Hunter is a series that not only gets loot right, but makes its acquisition the beating heart of the entire game, and never more so than in its latest iteration. Like its predecessors, there are no levels in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, no steady climb in stats to go alongside your constant process of acquisition. Weapon and armour abilities are all you have to rely on as a player, meaning making newer, better items is your only means of progression. Alongside that comes the realisation that loot drops are as much a puzzle as they are a reward.

If your new bowgun needs spider mandibles to make, you head to the nearest mega-spider nest and smash its skittering resident in the face with a hammer until one of those mandibles can be more easily sawn off. It's that reactive loot, rewarding your thinking with the correct drops, that makes the feeling of achievement so much more tangible. This isn't to say there isn't an element of chance at work - plants, berries and ores are semi-randomised with every visit to an area, and the rarest items carved from monsters are either sparse or simply impossible to obtain without working out which piece of the beast to concentrate your attacks on.

The difference here is that you're not waiting for the electric bear-lizard you've been pummelling to fall over and spill a much-needed lance from its guts - barring some very rare examples, you'll be building every item you want from scratch, scrabbling together multiple elements to make the piece you want. Chance here is part of a wider scheme, not the be-all and end-all of success. It means that a full, five-piece armour set, particularly, is a document of the time you spent building it - and that time can be spent in so many different ways.

Monster Hunter 4 does a great job of introducing a narrative thrust to a series that's always struggled to tell a story, but its greatest work is in turning its gaudy, ludicrous costumes and weaponry into stories themselves. To nab an idea from Eurogamer's own Mr. Donlan, every item you earn involves a single ritual:

  1. Deciding what you want to build.
  2. Working out how to do so.
  3. Amassing and equipping the items you need to survive going out to do so.
  4. Collecting the myriad loot you need to do so.
  5. Doing so.

Often, you'll realise halfway through this process (hopefully at the third point, but usually at the fourth) that you simply can't handle your next target, at which point you start a new, nested ritual to build the armour or weapon you need to continue with the first.

Destiny and its ilk works off of the warm feeling of being done a favour - firing high-calibre rounds into a boss until the Great Algorithm In The Sky deigns you deserving of a new hat. Monster Hunter forces you to earn even the smallest upgrade, and the satisfaction is so much greater for the effort. You're not betting your time here, you're investing it.

SOURCE

Personally, it sounds like it- whereas Destiny just appears to be a grind for the hell of it, a repetitious motion that you know amounts to nothing that you are still going through simply because the game holds your OCD to ransom, Monster Hunter balances the prospect of loot and drops with actually earning what you want- this is still a game in which you craft loot, but what you get is exactly what you deserve, nothing more, nothing less.

It really is an amazing game, and Capcom have finally realized the series' longstanding vision.

Have you picked it up yet? What do you think?

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eNT1TY

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#2 eNT1TY
Member since 2005 • 1319 Posts

"Often, you'll realise halfway through this process (hopefully at the third point, but usually at the fourth) that you simply can't handle your next target, at which point you start a new, nested ritual to build the armour or weapon you need to continue with the first."

This part sucks immensely for me. I tolerate it the 1st few times but eventually drives me away from the games. Crafting secondary and even tertiary sets just to complete your intended set (that only lasts the next two or three major encounters before obsolescence) is grindy and boring; if core gameplay weren't so fun i wouldn't even bother with the games. But yeah, this is always the wall i encounter that at some point makes me think "why bother?" Then i'll go play something else till the itch arises to revisit. I will certainly concede that any small amount of progress is hard-earned and joyfully celebrated, it's just that for me it is a little too "hard-earned".

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#3 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

well done capcom

a masterpiece that couldnt be achieved on the psp

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#4 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@KBFloYd said:

well done capcom

a masterpiece that couldnt be achieved on the psp

Sure it could, the best Monster Hunter game is still on the PSP (I assume 4 Ultimate will be better in the end but as of right now, Freedom Unite is still the best).

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#5 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts

Waiting on that wiiu announcement.

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#6 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

Sure it could, the best Monster Hunter game is still on the PSP (I assume 4 Ultimate will be better in the end but as of right now, Freedom Unite is still the best).

did freedom unite get a 9.0?

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#7 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@KBFloYd said:

@charizard1605 said:

Sure it could, the best Monster Hunter game is still on the PSP (I assume 4 Ultimate will be better in the end but as of right now, Freedom Unite is still the best).

did freedom unite get a 9.0?

Nah, but who cares about the score?

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KBFloYd

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#8  Edited By KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

@KBFloYd said:

@charizard1605 said:

Sure it could, the best Monster Hunter game is still on the PSP (I assume 4 Ultimate will be better in the end but as of right now, Freedom Unite is still the best).

did freedom unite get a 9.0?

Nah, but who cares about the score?

its good for fanboy ammo and to justify opinons :)

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Blabadon

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#9 Blabadon
Member since 2008 • 33030 Posts

Destiny has good gameplay, Monster Hunter doesn't.

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#10 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64054 Posts

@Blabadon said:

Destiny has good gameplay

No it does not. Decent mechanics, the actual gameplay is fucking lame.

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#11 Blabadon
Member since 2008 • 33030 Posts

@jg4xchamp: Fine, Monster Hunter's mechanics blow

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#12 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64054 Posts

@Blabadon said:

@jg4xchamp: Fine, Monster Hunter's mechanics blow

Whatever, as long as we're not acting like Destiny's gameplay is anything short of the dog shit that it is.

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#13  Edited By deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@Blabadon said:

@jg4xchamp: Fine, Monster Hunter's mechanics blow

No they don't. The only thing about Monster Hunter that used to be problematic was the controls, which is no longer true.

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#14 cablemodemx2
Member since 2003 • 1000 Posts

I'm still waiting for Capcom, at the very least, to release it for the WiiU.

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#15 Fuhrer_D
Member since 2011 • 1136 Posts

I guess they don't play Diablo (400+ hours on D3: RoS on the Xbox One) over at Eurogamer. With that said, I'll be picking up MH4 as long as it makes its way to the Wii U.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#16  Edited By deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

Oh for ****'s sake, Capcom, just put this game out on Wii U. Clearly there's an audience, and it not like 3DS to Wii U ports cost that much, either.

Also, it would stop all this whining from all these people on System Wars ]:-<

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#17  Edited By finalfantasy94
Member since 2004 • 27442 Posts

really sounds no different from other loot type game. You keep killing something till you get your items and that can be a grind at times. I remember playing god eater and kept killing the same thing over and over waiting for a drop to make a better sword.

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#18 Planeforger  Online
Member since 2004 • 20088 Posts

@finalfantasy94: It's a little different to mindless grinding, since how you play influences what drops you get.

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#19 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

this is exactly what i've been saying on bungie's forums. the grinding in MH4 is fun, yes, fun grinding... It has the co-op, LOADS of challenging content for your endgame character and hundreds of hours of playtime. Destiny had nothing else but one raid which gets boring after ~5 runs. This is why im so interested in MH series and want it baaaaaaad on pc or ps4.

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#21 Desmonic  Moderator
Member since 2007 • 19990 Posts

@charizard1605: Yeah, except for that part where Destiny sold more than the last 2 MH (in Japan) put together :P Dat grind thirst is real bro!

But yeah MH is likely the better loot game. Wonder how it compares to the likes of Diablo ( just in terms of loot/rewards).

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#22  Edited By LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

A lot of my friends talked a lot about Destiny when it launched and it sparked my interest in Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate again because of how much the game seemed to remind me of Monster Hunter.

They keep talking about getting into parties (usually of 4) and going on "raids" to beat some big monster or enemy just to get one piece of loot to complete their armor set and I was like "Hey that's sounds like Monster Hunter." and they just go "What? Yeah Whatever." and then I kind of cry inside because no one plays Monster Hunter.... :(

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#23 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 36059 Posts

The game is awesome, although it has been way too easy for my taste. It might be because I have 800 hours of gametime on MH3U and I'm just good, though. I'm currently 25 hours in and haven't had a single problem with anything.. And I feel way too powerful for the quests that I'm on.. Oh well, hope it gets better later in the game!

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#24 jsmoke03
Member since 2004 • 13719 Posts

cant compare the 2 since the basic mechanic of destiny is that its an fps. i dont know how many dude bro's want to play monster hunter

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#25 DaBrainz
Member since 2007 • 7959 Posts

Yeah the loot system in destiny isn't very complex, but when all is said and done both games require killing the same handful of bosses over and over again until you get what you want.

Personally I think guildwars had implemented loot the best and that was 10 years ago.

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#26 no-scope-AK47
Member since 2012 • 3755 Posts

If the game is fun people will play. I see people crying about grinding but diablo 3 has shown that grinding can be fun if done right.

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#27 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts

I'd be interested in this were it available on iOS.

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Ballroompirate

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#28  Edited By Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26695 Posts

The reason why Destiny sucks compared to MH4 Ultimate, is MH4 actually has farming and grinding to the point of perfection while Destiny's farming and grinding ether gets nerfed or just straight up blows.

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#29 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@musicalmac: Whereas I don't understand why it needs to be on iOS, you can still get Freedom Unite on it. In my opinion it's the best game in the series, so give it a go. Albeit Monster Hunter with touch controls...

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#30 TilxWLOC
Member since 2011 • 1164 Posts

@jsmoke03 said:

cant compare the 2 since the basic mechanic of destiny is that its an fps. i dont know how many dude bro's want to play monster hunter

Well, if you want Monster Hunter with guns, Peace Walker has some Monster Hunter crossover missions.

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#31 Mr_Huggles_dog
Member since 2014 • 7805 Posts

Never played Monster Hunter....looks like a game I could enjoy.

Destiny is a great game as well....guess enjoying both of them is the smart thing to do.

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#32  Edited By lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@mr_huggles_dog said:

Destiny is a great game as well....

lol, good one

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#33 TheGreatGeneral
Member since 2014 • 717 Posts

Another game series that got big on a Sony plattform, thank you Sony.

I dont get how Heil can make this kind of post all the time.

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#34 CWEBB04z
Member since 2006 • 4880 Posts

Haven't played Monster Hunter since Freedom Unite... won't get a 3DS so im gonna wait until Capcom releases it for the Vita.

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#35 CWEBB04z
Member since 2006 • 4880 Posts

Haven't played Monster Hunter since Freedom Unite... won't get a 3DS so im gonna wait until Capcom releases it for the Vita.

@charizard1605 said:

@KBFloYd said:

well done capcom

a masterpiece that couldnt be achieved on the psp

Sure it could, the best Monster Hunter game is still on the PSP (I assume 4 Ultimate will be better in the end but as of right now, Freedom Unite is still the best).

Monster Hunter on the PS2 is the best... It had online play, why Capcom decided not to incorporate online play in the PSP versions still baffles me.

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#36 Mr_Huggles_dog
Member since 2014 • 7805 Posts

@lostrib said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

Destiny is a great game as well....

lol, good one

So Monster Hunter sucks too?

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#37 lostrib
Member since 2009 • 49999 Posts

@mr_huggles_dog said:

@lostrib said:

@mr_huggles_dog said:

Destiny is a great game as well....

lol, good one

So Monster Hunter sucks too?

no idea

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#38 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

@musicalmac: Whereas I don't understand why it needs to be on iOS, you can still get Freedom Unite on it. In my opinion it's the best game in the series, so give it a go. Albeit Monster Hunter with touch controls...

Yeah, I just haven't splurged yet. Most of the games I play these days happen to be on my iPhone 6. That's why I mention it.

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funsohng

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#39  Edited By funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts

Destiny actually has better camera.

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#40 NVIDIATI
Member since 2010 • 8463 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

@musicalmac: Whereas I don't understand why it needs to be on iOS, you can still get Freedom Unite on it. In my opinion it's the best game in the series, so give it a go. Albeit Monster Hunter with touch controls...

Touch controls could be avoided with the use of a controller dock:

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#41 SolidGame_basic
Member since 2003 • 47551 Posts

Just started the game. I think I'm going to really like it.

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#42 turtlethetaffer
Member since 2009 • 18973 Posts

All this talk really makes me want to play MH4U. Maybe I'll pick it up when the semester ends.

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#43 musicalmac  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 25101 Posts

@NVIDIATI: I've been toying around with the idea of getting one. I just haven't quite pulled the trigger yet.

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#45 Big_Pecks
Member since 2010 • 5973 Posts

It's definitely weird to see Capcom develop something well and in a successful way compared to the rest of their franchises.

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#46 King_Dodongo
Member since 2006 • 3759 Posts

I hope this gets a WiiU version, for my sake.

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#47 Ghost120x
Member since 2009 • 6060 Posts

I have both and it's true.

Mh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Destiny

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#48 NVIDIATI
Member since 2010 • 8463 Posts

@musicalmac said:

@NVIDIATI: I've been toying around with the idea of getting one. I just haven't quite pulled the trigger yet.

Yeah, there is also very little selection right now in terms of MFi controllers for the iPhone 6 (note: Afterpad). Especially if you want a clamp-style controller like the MOGA Ace Power. Pricing of known brand controllers will also need to come down a considerable amount before they can take off. In some cases, these controllers go for ~$100. The only alternative outside of that is to purchase a lesser known brand and jailbreak your iPhone (unrealistic / not an option for most). Fortunately, as gaming continues to grow in the mobile industry, more devices will be launched in the near future.

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#49 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

@Big_Pecks: Capcom hasn't actually had a single misstep with the Monster Hunter franchise, to my knowledge.

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#50 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts

@charizard1605 said:

@Big_Pecks: Capcom hasn't actually had a single misstep with the Monster Hunter franchise, to my knowledge.

Here, maybe, but in Japan, it did.

They got flak for Portable 3 HD, and recent 4 Ultimate (mostly because the added contents were shit). Also, some problems with Frontier I heard.