European Commissioner gives Microsoft one week to respond to 360 scratching woes

"While the Commissioner says the European Commissions doesn't have the "competencies" to force a recall at this time, she does say that she'll be "more than happy to act" if she finds legal grounds to do so.."

Does that mean she has yet to find legan grounds ?

06-01-2007

I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.Bansheesdie

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

When I saw the video of the Dutch tv show the hardware expert turned an operating 360 from standing to laying flat without warning people that it was a demonstration and to "not try this at home".

It does not excuse MS for poor design because they should have put together a better system,  but I remember thinking that here was a show trying to help people and they show the absolute worst thing you can do without warning them to not move it while its running. Proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not too worried about how badly the 360 was designed because after my experiences with most consumer electronics I always buy the extended warrenty. I didn't let going through three PS2's over a few years keep me from playing great PS2 titles. The games were worth the hassle and its the same with the 360.

When I saw the video of the Dutch tv show the hardware expert turned an operating 360 from standing to laying flat without warning people that it was a demonstration and to "not try this at home".

It does not excuse MS for poor design because they should have put together a better system, but I remember thinking that here was a show trying to help people and they show the absolute worst thing you can do without warning them to not move it while its running. Proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not too worried about how badly the 360 was designed because after my experiences with most consumer electronics I always buy the extended warrenty. I didn't let going through three PS2's over a few years keep me from playing great PS2 titles. The games were worth the hassle and its the same with the 360.

 

Riverwolf007

In the US we have a radio show called Clark Howard that helps with money. He points out that in most case buying a extended warranty is not worth it because over 99% of extended warranties never get used. The fact that a person is worried enoght about their XBox that they have to buy one is kinda bad. I have never bought a extended warranty and I have never wish I done so latter.

When I saw the video of the Dutch tv show the hardware expert turned an operating 360 from standing to laying flat without warning people that it was a demonstration and to "not try this at home".

It does not excuse MS for poor design because they should have put together a better system, but I remember thinking that here was a show trying to help people and they show the absolute worst thing you can do without warning them to not move it while its running. Proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not too worried about how badly the 360 was designed because after my experiences with most consumer electronics I always buy the extended warrenty. I didn't let going through three PS2's over a few years keep me from playing great PS2 titles. The games were worth the hassle and its the same with the 360.

 

Riverwolf007

This is indeed true, but well on that show I think I recall him testing for vibrations, and he put in an unevenly balanced disc at first. So everyone should've gotten from that that it is a test run and not to be done at home.

The scratching problem is a real nasty one. If it happens to you you might get all your game collection up-to-that-point destroyed and for people who have a library of 10+ games, I'd say this is more damaging as for example sending in the Xbox360 just to repair the 3 lights of doom. It's not that the Xbox360 scratches the DVDs in one run, no it does so through time, so you actually wont notice it until the DVD is more or less junk. That's why I mentioned, it could potentially damage whole libraries.  

Honestly it only shows that some Xbox360 are built with cheap components to begin with. Hell I can turn my outside DVD-RW drive while it's writing a DVD upside-down to the side and the DVD writing/reading process will be halted for this duration until the drive is stalble again. I guess is a veary chip tilt sensor in it, because the whole drive cost me a bit more as an internal one. So if Xbox360 actually used some of this, this might make more people happy.  

And normaly, the switching postions of the console should not cause scratches on the discs. It should not be done in operation, yes, but it also shouldn't scartch the stuff in the first place. I never had any problems with this stuff, not with any DVD player, not with my audio components while moving them around, while playing (ok movie hiks up, music spings, but no scatches).

Also Car audio systems don't scratch discs, at least the newer ones don't, and the car can travel bumpy roads. This "Don't tilt" is just a poor excuse, as said, the Xbox360 should not be tilted while operational, but if it is, it shouldn't mess up the discs in the first place, let alone mess them up, when it's just standing there doing nothing, as it was with the case on the TV. 

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

When I saw the video of the Dutch tv show the hardware expert turned an operating 360 from standing to laying flat without warning people that it was a demonstration and to "not try this at home".

It does not excuse MS for poor design because they should have put together a better system, but I remember thinking that here was a show trying to help people and they show the absolute worst thing you can do without warning them to not move it while its running. Proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not too worried about how badly the 360 was designed because after my experiences with most consumer electronics I always buy the extended warrenty. I didn't let going through three PS2's over a few years keep me from playing great PS2 titles. The games were worth the hassle and its the same with the 360.

 

HarlockJC

In the US we have a radio show called Clark Howard that helps with money. He points out that in most case buying a extended warranty is not worth it because over 99% of extended warranties never get used. The fact that a person is worried enoght about their XBox that they have to buy one is kinda bad. I have never bought a extended warranty and I have never wish I done so latter.

As far a Clark Howard goes my thinking is that a financial advisor would never waste his money on a game system or anything else frivolous of that sort. To me buying the warrenty even if it never gets used is buying piece of mind therefore its not a waste of money.

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.KrnDuDe

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Widespread would mean well over 50%. I hear about a few cases here and there, but I doubt it's a lot.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

When I saw the video of the Dutch tv show the hardware expert turned an operating 360 from standing to laying flat without warning people that it was a demonstration and to "not try this at home".

It does not excuse MS for poor design because they should have put together a better system, but I remember thinking that here was a show trying to help people and they show the absolute worst thing you can do without warning them to not move it while its running. Proof that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not too worried about how badly the 360 was designed because after my experiences with most consumer electronics I always buy the extended warrenty. I didn't let going through three PS2's over a few years keep me from playing great PS2 titles. The games were worth the hassle and its the same with the 360.

 

F-Minus

This is indeed true, but well on that show I think I recall him testing for vibrations, and he put in an unevenly balanced disc at first. So everyone should've gotten from that that it is a test run and not to be done at home.

The scratching problem is a real nasty one. If it happens to you you might get all your game collection up-to-that-point destroyed and for people who have a library of 10+ games, I'd say this is more damaging as for example sending in the Xbox360 just to repair the 3 lights of doom. It's not that the Xbox360 scratches the DVDs in one run, no it does so through time, so you actually wont notice it until the DVD is more or less junk. That's why I mentioned, it could potentially damage whole libraries.  

Honestly it only shows that some Xbox360 are built with cheap components to begin with. Hell I can turn my outside DVD-RW drive while it's writing a DVD upside-down to the side and the DVD writing/reading process will be halted for this duration until the drive is stalble again. I guess is a veary chip tilt sensor in it, because the whole drive cost me a bit more as an internal one. So if Xbox360 actually used some of this, this might make more people happy.  

And normaly, the switching postions of the console should not cause scratches on the discs. It should not be done in operation, yes, but it also shouldn't scartch the stuff in the first place. I never had any problems with this stuff, not with any DVD player, not with my audio components while moving them around, while playing (ok movie hiks up, music spings, but no scatches).

Also Car audio systems don't scratch discs, at least the newer ones don't, and the car can travel bumpy roads. This "Don't tilt" is just a poor excuse, as said, the Xbox360 should not be tilted while operational, but if it is, it shouldn't mess up the discs in the first place, let alone mess them up, when it's just standing there doing nothing, as it was with the case on the TV. 

Life is full of compromises.

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.KrnDuDe

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Ahhhummm!!!!  No it's not.  Scratched disks are rare, and 98% of the time it happens, it's when a user moves the console when the disk is spinning.

Who moves their console while they are playing games anyway? I treat my 360 with kid gloves and it unsurprisingly works fine.Idonomeus

this is not about moving console while disk is inside...xbox360 scratches the disks when playing vertically...

even though i love my 360 microsoft needs to get sewed....forced a recall of every single xbox unit and should make a competent system.  Im on my 3rd xbox 360 in less than 1 month...........blaznwiipspman1

FakeBoy Alert!!!  New account and all.  18 posts.

Who moves their console while they are playing games anyway? I treat my 360 with kid gloves and it unsurprisingly works fine.Idonomeus

[QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.AgentVX

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show.

Ahhhummm!!!! No it's not. Scratched disks are rare, and 98% of the time it happens, it's when a user moves the console when the disk is spinning.

nope...even xbox customer service said xbox360 is not meant to play games virtically, google it. 

[QUOTE="AgentVX"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.KrnDuDe

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show.

Ahhhummm!!!! No it's not. Scratched disks are rare, and 98% of the time it happens, it's when a user moves the console when the disk is spinning.

nope...even xbox customer service said xbox360 is not meant to play games virtically, google it. 

EDIT* and don't put it upside down either...

[QUOTE="KrnDuDe"][QUOTE="AgentVX"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.Riverwolf007

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show.

Ahhhummm!!!! No it's not. Scratched disks are rare, and 98% of the time it happens, it's when a user moves the console when the disk is spinning.

nope...even xbox customer service said xbox360 is not meant to play games virtically, google it.

EDIT* and don't put it upside down either...

huh? wat r u talking about? im saying xbox360 scratches the disk when its vertical even u dont move the console while playing the game.. 

This could in the end be real bad for M$ if they have to recall them...It could put them back in to the Red...If it has to be doneHarlockJC

That just by memory though I have not seen actual numbers for this for many months now.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"][QUOTE="AgentVX"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.KrnDuDe

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show.

Ahhhummm!!!! No it's not. Scratched disks are rare, and 98% of the time it happens, it's when a user moves the console when the disk is spinning.

nope...even xbox customer service said xbox360 is not meant to play games virtically, google it.

EDIT* and don't put it upside down either...

huh? wat r u talking about? im saying xbox360 scratches the disk when its vertical even u dont move the console while playing the game.. 

I guess this topic is a little redundant as there already was a 133 post thread going on including all the test videos (just watch them to end all this "oh my, he's turning the 360 while a disc is running inside":

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?board_id=314159282&topic_id=25670863 

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.KrnDuDe

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Except its never happened to me or anyone I know and its almost never reported on the support forums. Unlike the RROD. Its pure BS or idiots moving the console when its on IMO.

[QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.TOAO_Cyrus1

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Except its never happened to me or anyone I know and its almost never reported on the support forums. Unlike the RROD. Its pure BS or idiots moving the console when its on IMO.

[QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.TOAO_Cyrus1

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show.

Except its never happened to me or anyone I know and its almost never reported on the support forums. Unlike the RROD. Its pure BS or idiots moving the console when its on IMO.

Just check out the thread I posted and try to say that again.... 

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.orangeonxbox

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Except its never happened to me or anyone I know and its almost never reported on the support forums. Unlike the RROD. Its pure BS or idiots moving the console when its on IMO.

 I'm sorry, but you need to consult the manual to find out if you can move the console while a game is moving inside? If people lack the commen sense to not move a console with a game running inside then they are dumb....

Also Car audio systems don't scratch discs, at least the newer ones don't, and the car can travel bumpy roads. This "Don't tilt" is just a poor excuse, as said, the Xbox360 should not be tilted while operational, but if it is, it shouldn't mess up the discs in the first place, let alone mess them up, when it's just standing there doing nothing, as it was with the case on the TV. 

F-Minus

 The disc in your car audio system don't move at 8000 rpm.

[QUOTE="orangeonxbox"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.DXGreat1_HGL

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Except its never happened to me or anyone I know and its almost never reported on the support forums. Unlike the RROD. Its pure BS or idiots moving the console when its on IMO.

 I'm sorry, but you need to consult the manual to find out if you can move the console while a game is moving inside? If people lack the commen sense to not move a console with a game running inside then they are dumb....

 Exactly. People just seem to think they can do whatever they want to their electronics, and if something goes wrong, it's the manufacturer's fault. Not to say that the 360 doesn't have hardware faults, but seriously, this one shouldn't be an issue. I've had my 360 for 6 months now, and it has neither broken down (as all the other 360s on this forum seem to), nor has it scratched even one disc I've put in it (and I play with it standing vertically 100% of the time). If you're knocking it around, or even moving it to a horizontal position while playing, and a disc gets scratched, that's your problem; I fail to see why you can't just wait three seconds, turn off the system, and then move it.

Here's what M$ should do:

Problem solved;)

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"][QUOTE="KrnDuDe"]

06-01-2007[QUOTE="Bansheesdie"]I doubt the scratching is wide spread enough for the Commissioner to be able to effectively do anything.orangeonxbox

yes it is, which is why it was even on the tv show. 

Except its never happened to me or anyone I know and its almost never reported on the support forums. Unlike the RROD. Its pure BS or idiots moving the console when its on IMO.

:lol: Your fault. The instruction manual is not meant to be skipped over or read partially when you feel like it. It is there to warn you, it says so on THE FIRST PAGE. Just because something is on Page 2 or 12 or 22 does not make it less important. It's your duty as consumer to learn everything about the console.

This is seriously one of the most ludicrous things I've read against Microsoft, I almost want to put it in my sig. :lol:

[QUOTE="F-Minus"]

Also Car audio systems don't scratch discs, at least the newer ones don't, and the car can travel bumpy roads. This "Don't tilt" is just a poor excuse, as said, the Xbox360 should not be tilted while operational, but if it is, it shouldn't mess up the discs in the first place, let alone mess them up, when it's just standing there doing nothing, as it was with the case on the TV.

Pripyat

The disc in your car audio system don't move at 8000 rpm.

No real issue here, the laser scratches the disc not the centrifugal force. The vibrations come from the motor in the drive ansd presumably from the coolers inside the xbox360. The funny part tho is that my DVD-RW drives rotate the discs faster (24,000 RPM 48x write speed)  as the Xbox360 drive yet as said I can throw them in the air, turn them around anything I like, while operational - they will halt the disc stop it's spinning "reading/writing" until it's safe and stable again and then continue whatever it was doing.

On a side note, the DVDs are not perfectly ballanced to start with, but they are no way so heavily out of ballance that the spinning could cause such enormous vibrations.