Every play your way game should look up to FC3 (No spoilers)

No Far Cry 3 spoilers in the thread please.

I've said it, every single game that is labeled as "play your way" should try to set the bar higher than FC3.

FC3 succeeds where others have failed because it actually rewards you for whichever way you want to play and doesn't punish you for not following certain way.

Take dishonored for example, games like dishonored piss me off, sure I loved dishonored, but it's almost as if the devs were trying to play a joke on me.

They give you all these amazing tools to kill, a bunch of weapons, powers and enviromental hazards that could be combined to devise amazing and lethal plans, letting you know that you can play your way, and then, they troll you by actually letting you know that you can play whichever way you want to play, but you best damn play on the way the devs think is the best, because if you dont you'll get the bad ending.

Or deus ex, where the combat way offers you pretty much no xp when compared to the hacker's path.

Now, people will say "duuuuude but its better in dishonored because it's more realistic! real life has consequences for your actions, so does dishonored!".

First of all: these games dont have to be "realistic".

Secondly: Real life consequences are far more variable.

And last but not least: why do they have to make the consequences be getting the bad ending? why couldn't they just have increased the number of enemies, their awareness and such? im aware that this already happens in dishonored, but im saying that IT SHOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT HAPPENS, they shouldn't give you a bad ending simply because you played the way you thought it was best.

See in Far Cry 3, killing the enemy in a stealthy way grants you more xp because it's harder, but there is even this sense of satisfaction, the enemies are ruthless pirates, not just guards doing their jobs trying to bring food to the table, so no moral qualms about killing them, the animations are brutal, the takedowns are swift, varied and can be chained and lead to multiple kills with the proper skills, and the best of all? the game doesn't punish you if you dont want to play that way, and every way is still satisfying.

In dishonored, you either use all the tools you are given and get the bad ending, or you just bore to tears by choking everyone, Hell, I would have no problem with that, if they would have increased the options you get in the stealth/pacifist run, only 2 ways to knock out opponents in a non lethal way...by choking them from behind, or shooting them with a sleeping dart.

TL;DR "play your way" games should be more like far cry which actually allow you and encourage you to play whichever way you want without punishing you for not following the path the devs thought best.

And no morality system anymore, seriously just get rid of morality systems in games.

I have to admit, I loved attacking outposts. stealth/assault or both were very fun. Now im just letting some outposts live so i can kill the patrols without end. Fun times.

Only one complaint.....LET ME PUT C4 ON CARS and dont let the AI act like it is a gunshot when I try and plant some in a base.

It is odd that some games award more xp for being stealthy. I often find that the easiest path is stealth, all you really need is a bit more patience. Breaking stealth in some games can make them harder and greatly increases the chance of death, Metro 2033 (mainly in the nazi held terrritories) and Deus Ex : HR fall into this area. Dishonered is an exception to this in that the guards are very easy to murder your way through with very little effort, getting caught out carries very little risk to the player but it does affect the ending.

I do agree that Far Cry 3 is a good example of devs really letting the player find their own way but it's one of the few real sandbox games out there. Skyrim is another good example of being left to your own devices without too much dev prodding. Metro : Last Light also promises more sandbox action in the outside areas, which are reportedly going to make up about 40% of the games. So it could turn out to be a good mix of sandbox and Linearity

I have to admit, I loved attacking outposts. stealth/assault or both were very fun. Now im just letting some outposts live so i can kill the patrols without end. Fun times.

Only one complaint.....LET ME PUT C4 ON CARS and dont let the AI act like it is a gunshot when I try and plant some in a base.

MW2ismygame

Thats one reason I hate the scoring system in the new Hitman. It punishes you if you kill anyone but the target. I understand their aim; that they want you to sneak through undetected without killing but there are other fun ways to progress through a level and I don't want to be punished for it.

In blood money, I would sneak through levels taking out as many guards as I could and hiding the bodies without being detected which was loads of fun.

*reads title*

.... WUT? *scratches head*

I love play your way games and 2012 was a great year for them with Hitman (sorta), Dishonored and Far Cry:D

Haven't played Far Cry 3 so I am not sure if that affects my ability / qualification to reply...

Your point is kinda interesting, but the reasons you are using to back it up with didn't convince me in the slightest.

Now, people will say "duuuuude but its better in dishonored because it's more realistic! real life has consequences for your actions, so does dishonored!".

First of all: these games dont have to be "realistic".lightleggy

Secondly: Real life consequences are far more variable.

And last but not least: why do they have to make the consequences be getting the bad ending? why couldn't they just have increased the number of enemies, their awareness and such? im aware that this already happens in dishonored, but im saying that IT SHOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT HAPPENS, they shouldn't give you a bad ending simply because you played the way you thought it was best.

Im about half way through and I have to say it's a highly rewarding open world experience. Clearing outposts is insanely fun, varied and well worth the time to plot out and execute your attack. I'm not comparing the playability of these two games, but the I get the same feeling when I play FC3 as I did with the Assassin creed games... there are so many little carrots hanging at the end of the stick waiting for you to grab its ridiculous. Ubi Montreal nailed it.

I'm enjoying it so far. I really dig the stealth. You get excellent feedback on how exposed you are. Lots of fun. The takedown moves are ridiculously forgiving though.

Far Cry is great but the AI is lacking and After you take every outpost and finish side missions theres pretty much nothing to do. Those are my only real complaints but it was still my GOTY last yearmems_1224

in Far Cry 2 there were too many outposts to the point where they got annoying and in Far Cry 3 there are too few :P

I'm enjoying it so far. I really dig the stealth. You get excellent feedback on how exposed you are. Lots of fun. The takedown moves are ridiculously forgiving though.

heretrix

[QUOTE="mems_1224"]Far Cry is great but the AI is lacking and After you take every outpost and finish side missions theres pretty much nothing to do. Those are my only real complaints but it was still my GOTY last yearR4gn4r0k

in Far Cry 2 there were too many outposts to the point where they got annoying and in Far Cry 3 there are too few :P

Haven't played Far Cry 3 so I am not sure if that affects my ability / qualification to reply...

Your point is kinda interesting, but the reasons you are using to back it up with didn't convince me in the slightest.

[QUOTE="lightleggy"]
So? Different strokes for different blokes.

Some games aren't "realistic", some games are (to some degree). It's true that they don't have to be, but it's also true that if they try to be anyway, one can't objectively say that it hurts them in some way. Sure, you personally may not like it, but duh, there is a lot of people who might prefer it that way (and given that Dishonored was quite a success, there is probably a lot of them).

Just for the sake of diversity, I think that it is great that there are both the games with harsher / more restrictive consequences like Dishonored and games with "lighter" consequences (based on your description) like Far Cry 3. That way both the people who want "lighter" consequences and people who want harsher consequences can get what they want...

Secondly: Real life consequences are far more variable.SciFiRPGfan

You don't say... Real life was, is and always will be far more complex and varying than any game developed ever because of mere fact, that such game will always be only part of it.

But just because the developers don't have enough resources to put the type of consequences you like in their game, it doesn't mean that they should stop trying putting the consequences they like and think that they can implement. For the people like me for example, it is better if the game has at least some consequences rather than none.

And what kind of argument is it anyway? When did inabilitiy to make something completely "realistic" stop the developers from trying to make it at least as "realistic" as they could?

And last but not least: why do they have to make the consequences be getting the bad ending? why couldn't they just have increased the number of enemies, their awareness and such? im aware that this already happens in dishonored, but im saying that IT SHOULD BE THE ONLY THING THAT HAPPENS, they shouldn't give you a bad ending simply because you played the way you thought it was best.

To me, it made sense that killing all those guards resulted in "worse" / "darker" ending both because of plague which probably spread more easily in places with more dead bodies (not to mention the rats) and because of the effect it must have had on the morale and behaviour of the townsfolk. Just imagine that "someone" in your town supposedly with supernatural powers would be killing dozens of policemen and / or other people... How long do you think it would take before the people would go nutts? And now compare it with the situation when that "someone" would be avoiding any violence as much as possible and actually helping some civilians (by pacifying criminals).

No, I think that "darker" / "worse" ending because of all those murders was actually very good idea. It brought another element to the game - the responsibility of a player for consequences. It also helped with the role-playing...

I agree that non-lethal approach could use more variety though. Maybe in this regard Far Cry 3 is indeed better.

As for morality systems, I am not a big fan of unified morality / karma systems, but I definitely want my actions to have consequences in the games. Preferebly different with respect to different characters / factions and such.

I would have no issue with the guys giving a darker ending, if that would be the only thing they had given you.

In dishonored, the devs give you a ridiculous amount of tools, weapons and enviromental hazards that can be combined to make kills in at least 100 different ways, they give you a ****load of destructive power, and then they tell you "ok here you go, have all these weapons, but dont use them because you'll get the bad ending!"

and the other option? only 2 ways to take down your opponent.

As for the "citizens fearing the crazy dude killing cops", that aspect could have been fixed by stating that the cops were corrupt, bad men who just wore a noble outfit.

There are no non-lethal takedown in FC3 btw, you always have to kill them :P enemies are pirates, yarr.

But the stealth system is still great, it's amazing to pick enemies from afar and watch as their partners lose their ****

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

I'm enjoying it so far. I really dig the stealth. You get excellent feedback on how exposed you are. Lots of fun. The takedown moves are ridiculously forgiving though.

TheEroica

Yea, the gameplay wasn't nearly as good in Far Cry 2 though. Far Cry 3 nailed it in the gameplay department.mems_1224

Exactly. The outposts became a challenge and not a bore where you wanted to drive through as fast as possible. Far Cry 3s gameplay is just much better

how much easier is the combat path in deus ex than compared to the stealth path? and you want more, or if not equal exp for it? Led_poison

[QUOTE="mems_1224"]Far Cry is great but the AI is lacking and After you take every outpost and finish side missions theres pretty much nothing to do. Those are my only real complaints but it was still my GOTY last yearR4gn4r0k

in Far Cry 2 there were too many outposts to the point where they got annoying and in Far Cry 3 there are too few :P

[QUOTE="MW2ismygame"]

I have to admit, I loved attacking outposts. stealth/assault or both were very fun. Now im just letting some outposts live so i can kill the patrols without end. Fun times.

Only one complaint.....LET ME PUT C4 ON CARS and dont let the AI act like it is a gunshot when I try and plant some in a base.

lightleggy

You guys are crazy, I planted C4 on cars all the damn time. After I unlocked all the skills, my main base takeover strategy involved driving a C4 filled car right into a base and than going nuts with a grenade launcher and invincibility syringe.

Thats one reason I hate the scoring system in the new Hitman. It punishes you if you kill anyone but the target. I understand their aim; that they want you to sneak through undetected without killing but there are other fun ways to progress through a level and I don't want to be punished for it.

In blood money, I would sneak through levels taking out as many guards as I could and hiding the bodies without being detected which was loads of fun.

RR360DD

It's way to easy to just use your sniper in Farcry 3. It grants you three times as much XP for taking over strongholds and you get head shot bonuses.

Deus Ex did it great as you only get XP by completeling missions.

It's way to easy to just use your sniper in Farcry 3. It grants you three times as much XP for taking over strongholds and you get head shot bonuses.

Deus Ex did it great as you only get XP by completeling missions.

toast_burner

[QUOTE="Led_poison"]how much easier is the combat path in deus ex than compared to the stealth path? and you want more, or if not equal exp for it? dommeus

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

It's way to easy to just use your sniper in Farcry 3. It grants you three times as much XP for taking over strongholds and you get head shot bonuses.

Deus Ex did it great as you only get XP by completeling missions.

lightleggy

The A.I was so dumb that posed little to no threat, you just move a few metres to the side. In fact it made it easier to kill them as they then all move out into the open.

It's been a while since i played Deus Ex but I don't recall getting XP for hacking. I know you do in Hum,an revolution but I'm pretty sure you don't in Deus Ex.

I would have no issue with the guys giving a darker ending, if that would be the only thing they had given you.

In dishonored, the devs give you a ridiculous amount of tools, weapons and enviromental hazards that can be combined to make kills in at least 100 different ways, they give you a ****load of destructive power, and then they tell you "ok here you go, have all these weapons, but dont use them because you'll get the bad ending!"

and the other option? only 2 ways to take down your opponent.lightleggy

As for the "citizens fearing the crazy dude killing cops", that aspect could have been fixed by stating that the cops were corrupt, bad men who just wore a noble outfit.

And obviously they respawned as soon as you moved on.dommeus

That was really dumb. It reminds me of games where you close the door behind you, go back in and all enemies you just killed have magically returned :o

Thats one reason I hate the scoring system in the new Hitman. It punishes you if you kill anyone but the target. I understand their aim; that they want you to sneak through undetected without killing but there are other fun ways to progress through a level and I don't want to be punished for it.

In blood money, I would sneak through levels taking out as many guards as I could and hiding the bodies without being detected which was loads of fun.

RR360DD