Everything that is wrong the the PS3 (This is UNACCEPTABLE)

Read and comprehend.

MS chose not to make a HDD standard in every unit. That is their problem.

Sony does have a HDD standard in every unit. Therefore, they don't need BD which is nothing more than storage....which MS doesn't have in all their units.

And excuse me....since when have PC games been limited to 9GB? More than 1 disk...That's the point.

Good grief.

SUD123456

OK do you think that either MS or Sony can get away with multi disk games. I agree with you that yes there are HDD blah blah but consoles are not supposed to be PCs. Say you install a 25G game how many can you have on a HDD and still have d/l content which bot are relying upon to make money.

The pt. of consoles is turn on play, not boot up install then play. Of course BD is not essential then again nierther are highend processors, its just a big advantage that you have the whole game on disk and have enough space on your HDD to d/l stuff off live and PSN. Thats the main reason the HDD are there.

One of the reasons the PS3 is not out performing the 360 in performance and visuals could be the fact BluRay and the Cell were not designed specifically for the PS3. While the Cell may have been inspired by the PS3 concept it was also designed to be placed in TVs (which is why Toshiba aided Sony in its development).

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that by tyring to design the Cell to be implemented in more than one device Sony, Toshiba, and IBM (I think) may have "hurt" its gaming processing capabilities.

"We would be playing FF13, MSG4, and GT5"

No, we wouldn't.

-Spock-

Actually its quite possible. PS3 was suppose to launch in Spring 06 remember? Your not gonna use the excuse that the devs got the dev kits on launch day are you? :shock:

Right now, developing next-gen games is VERY expensive, so creating more content or adding more hours of gameplay increases game costs and development time.

Obviously as developers familiarize themselfs with the tools, they will be able to decrease development time and reduce costs, which will allow resources to be diverted to content production, making use of BR extra space.

OK do you think that either MS or Sony can get away with multi disk games. I agree with you that yes there are HDD blah blah but consoles are not supposed to be PCs. Say you install a 25G game how many can you have on a HDD and still have d/l content which bot are relying upon to make money.

The pt. of consoles is turn on play, not boot up install then play. Of course BD is not essential then again nierther are highend processors, its just a big advantage that you have the whole game on disk and have enough space on your HDD to d/l stuff off live and PSN. Thats the main reason the HDD are there.

Izzy12345

How much do you think it costs Sony to put a BD player in a PS3? How much does it cost them to put in a 80 GB drive?

Now imagine they skipped the BD player and just put in a larger HDD. How big do you think that could be?

Do you have any idea how cheap HDD are? Would a 500 GB drive be enough for you?

LMAO. They could put a HUGE HDD and still price the damn thing lower.

How many games could you have stored?...gee....would dozens at a time be enough for you?

Economically it is a no-brainer to choose HDD storage for gaming over BD or HD-DVD for Sony.

But then again, BD has nothing whatsoever to do with gaming.

some people have no patience

[QUOTE="Izzy12345"]

OK do you think that either MS or Sony can get away with multi disk games. I agree with you that yes there are HDD blah blah but consoles are not supposed to be PCs. Say you install a 25G game how many can you have on a HDD and still have d/l content which bot are relying upon to make money.

The pt. of consoles is turn on play, not boot up install then play. Of course BD is not essential then again nierther are highend processors, its just a big advantage that you have the whole game on disk and have enough space on your HDD to d/l stuff off live and PSN. Thats the main reason the HDD are there.

SUD123456

How much do you think it costs Sony to put a BD player in a PS3? How much does it cost them to put in a 80 GB drive?

Now imagine they skipped the BD player and just put in a larger HDD. How big do you think that could be?

Do you have any idea how cheap HDD are? Would a 500 GB drive be enough for you?

LMAO. They could put a HUGE HDD and still price the damn thing lower.

No, they couldn't. They are using 2.5 inch drives to keep the size of the system down, thats an important distinction because 2.5 inch drives don't get NEARLY as big as desktop PC drives.

The best you would be looking at would be 120GB and thats between 15-30 games that can be on the system at any one point in time. Plenty for lots but not nearly enough for me.

Also it wouldn't be cheaper because it wouldn't be able to scale as effectively. Notebook drives already are operating under economy of scale.

The very assets that Sony is marketing for its PS3 are the very reasons it is inferior to the Xbox 360.

I am referring to its Blu-Ray capabilities and The Cell Processor

Blu-Ray - This was supposed allow for longer and more detailed games. Then Cows realized that multi-plats would not benefit because developers would not take the time to use the space. However, this was where Sony's exclusive titles would shine and really show the benefit of Blu-ray for gaming.

Results: Motorstorm - Sony's highly exclusivetitle which many claimed would convert the non-believers. This title proved to be a massive flop mainly due to the lack of content. A lack of racing tracks and split screen seemed unexplainable considering Blu-ray allowed the game to clock in at many gigs over dvd-9 capability. Sony's next two highly touted exclsives - Lair and Uncharted - both lost a little steam when their respected developers clocked the game length at 10-12 hrs. Why are Sony's exclusive titles nearing on the short side of gaming???

In addition,why are all of the PS3's exclusives too big to fit on a dvd? Well, its because the Blu-ray drive read speed that is in every PS3 is TOO SLOW. This is next gen? Why does the same game in my PS3 take twice as long to load than in my 360? This is next gen?

Graphics - If it weren't for the PS3's Blu-Ray capabilities holding it up, the PS3 would have been released one year earlier. We would be playing FF13, MSG4, and GT5. The PS3 would have a much larger install base. The effects of using last gen RSX would nothave been as obviousand the RSX would be better optimized by now.What is the Blu-Ray advantage??? All I see is an inflated price tag and a better chance for Sony at winning the movie format war.

The Cell - This is THE single most hyped component of the PS3. However, what has this 'super computer processor' yielded??? It has yielded the ability for Cows and developers alike to give EXCUSES for PS3 game delay after delay. IN ADDITION, the cell is even the PRIMARY excuse for the reason that multi-plat games are graphically worse. All in the name of "difficulty" and "sophistication."

What are the cell advantages? Well so far the 360's processor has been shown to put out better frame rates and produce better AI. Why the cell? Because it can help out a slightly gimped gpu? Well its not doing good enough, it is to blame for delay after delay, and it is lacking in some very important areas (AI anyone?)

septicvirus

Well actually the Cell is far better than the Xenon. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful.

The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are a lot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(two reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. -That's six reasons why the PS3 is technically superior.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379

Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts.

In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! Don't you lemmings forget it!!!!!

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"][QUOTE="Izzy12345"]

I disagree with you, you say blu-ray would allow for longer games that was never said by anyone. Games just like music and TV all tend to be lumped in at certain times, I mean games are typically 10-12hrs long, songs are usually around 3.5 minutes etc.. The Blu-ray allows devs to put longer cutscenes like for RPGs, bonus content and for a game like LBP alot more levels and extra tools. The fact that it is 50G allows you to put the data with as little compression as possible. Meaning higer quality.

Izzy12345

Sorry but that's just completely incorrect. I dont know what forum you've been on for the past year, but cows have claimed relentlessly that blu-ray would give them longer, more content-filled games. Heck, didn't you see the onslaught of posts claiming GTA4 would be three times the size if it weren't for the xbox 360?

And even if you did deny all of that and say it's nothing to do with length, but quality... sub that into his post and he's still right. The PS3 hasn't shown any greater quality than the xbox 360 or PC.

Hmmm... when I said anyone I meant official Sony people or developpers not fanboys. Second just because the format gets bigger does not mean the content gets longer. CDs hold alot more music the Vinyl yet songstypically fall in that 3.5 minute range. The same is to be said about games 10-12 hrs.

Your also right that qunatity is not quality but that is on an individual personal basis. The fact that you say PS3 hasn't shown greater quality is because it has not had the time to fully be exploited by devs. I mentioned that earlier. But you need to define what you mean by quality. If it is in terms of gameplay thats up to devs not PS3 the PS3 does not make games. If you are talking about the hardware give it time I told you, comparing 2nd gen to first gen portsis not fair.

The following posts are both legitimate because there were both devs and fanboys touting the advantages of the Blu-ray over DVD-9 BEFORE the PS3 launched. But soon after all supporting devs received their final PS3 dev-kits, a large percentage of those outrageous claims fell silent leaving only fanboys hyping "teh potential" of the PS3 lineup.

Now the industry has a humble approach towards the PS3's performance but Ninja is right, the industry was in a uproar over the smoke and mirrors campaign of Sony and the PS3. Only after the fact that Sony was caught with its pants down (E3 06) can people accept the fact that the components of the PS3 (Cell, RSX, Blu-ray) are just proprietary parts of the system, nothing special to revolutionize gaming.

Game On...

I wish people would realize why Sony used Blu-Ray in the PS3. It had nothing to do with games at all. They wanted their format to suceed, and they knew no matter what the PS3 was going to sell just because it is the 3rd playstation. They used put Blu-Ray in it just to increase sales and guarentee a victory. It worked.

As for the Cell, they were very smart with the Cell. The Cell is extremely powerful, it has power that wont be tapped for years because developers have never developed on such a platform. It generates very little heat, and is cheaper to make. Also, Sony realized that developers will need more than just a powerful GPU to make the next gen of games. With advancements in A.I., physics, and overal game design, Sony knew that developers would need a much more powerful CPU to keep games innovative and unique. We will see this pay of later in the gen when heavy CPU reliant games are released for the PS3 that just can't be done on the Xbox 360. Sure the 360 may have prettier games later in the gen, but the CPU in the PS3 will allow developers to create deeper, more invovled gaming experiances. It is only up to the devs to tap that power.

We would be playing FF13, MSG4, and GT5. The PS3 would have a much larger install base. septicvirus

[QUOTE="Izzy12345"][QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"][QUOTE="Izzy12345"]

I disagree with you, you say blu-ray would allow for longer games that was never said by anyone. Games just like music and TV all tend to be lumped in at certain times, I mean games are typically 10-12hrs long, songs are usually around 3.5 minutes etc.. The Blu-ray allows devs to put longer cutscenes like for RPGs, bonus content and for a game like LBP alot more levels and extra tools. The fact that it is 50G allows you to put the data with as little compression as possible. Meaning higer quality.

FatalDomain

Sorry but that's just completely incorrect. I dont know what forum you've been on for the past year, but cows have claimed relentlessly that blu-ray would give them longer, more content-filled games. Heck, didn't you see the onslaught of posts claiming GTA4 would be three times the size if it weren't for the xbox 360?

And even if you did deny all of that and say it's nothing to do with length, but quality... sub that into his post and he's still right. The PS3 hasn't shown any greater quality than the xbox 360 or PC.

Hmmm... when I said anyone I meant official Sony people or developpers not fanboys. Second just because the format gets bigger does not mean the content gets longer. CDs hold alot more music the Vinyl yet songstypically fall in that 3.5 minute range. The same is to be said about games 10-12 hrs.

Your also right that qunatity is not quality but that is on an individual personal basis. The fact that you say PS3 hasn't shown greater quality is because it has not had the time to fully be exploited by devs. I mentioned that earlier. But you need to define what you mean by quality. If it is in terms of gameplay thats up to devs not PS3 the PS3 does not make games. If you are talking about the hardware give it time I told you, comparing 2nd gen to first gen portsis not fair.

The following posts are both legitimate because there were both devs and fanboys touting the advantages of the Blu-ray over DVD-9 BEFORE the PS3 launched. But soon after all supporting devs received their final PS3 dev-kits, a large percentage of those outrageous claims fell silent leaving only fanboys hyping "teh potential" of the PS3 lineup.

Now the industry has a humble approach towards the PS3's performance but Ninja is right, the industry was in a uproar over the smoke and mirrors campaign of Sony and the PS3. Only after the fact that Sony was caught with its pants down (E3 06) can people accept the fact that the components of the PS3 (Cell, RSX, Blu-ray) are just proprietary parts of the system, nothing special to revolutionize gaming.

Game On...

For your first part about Blu-ray maybe you can ask the PGR4 people if they can fit their full game on the DVD. Second for your cell argument is cell as mainstream as 360 which is similar to PC architecture, no. Is the 360's graphics gonna improve by leaps and bounds next year, no. The PS3 has plenty of room to improve on its graphics give it some time to be fully exploited like 360. Then we can discuss it further.

I wish people would realize why Sony used Blu-Ray in the PS3. It had nothing to do with games at all. They wanted their format to suceed, and they knew no matter what the PS3 was going to sell just because it is the 3rd playstation. They used put Blu-Ray in it just to increase sales and guarentee a victory. It worked.

As for the Cell, they were very smart with the Cell. The Cell is extremely powerful, it has power that wont be tapped for years because developers have never developed on such a platform. It generates very little heat, and is cheaper to make. Also, Sony realized that developers will need more than just a powerful GPU to make the next gen of games. With advancements in A.I., physics, and overal game design, Sony knew that developers would need a much more powerful CPU to keep games innovative and unique. We will see this pay of later in the gen when heavy CPU reliant games are released for the PS3 that just can't be done on the Xbox 360. Sure the 360 may have prettier games later in the gen, but the CPU in the PS3 will allow developers to create deeper, more invovled gaming experiances. It is only up to the devs to tap that power.

Wasdie

Sony is notorious for having strong CPUs in their consoles but they always neglect to give the systems the proper amount of RAM to create the perfect harmony in their architecture. In turn the system has to rely on devs to hack their way to achieve the performance easily achieved by other consoles....the PS3 is no different!!! So the PS3 HAD the potential to become the "gift of the gods" system, but Sony crippled it and now the console yields comparable (sometimes sub par) results to the competition.

In a nutshell Sony has the engine of a Ferrari under the hood of their car, unfortunately their are using go-kart tires and expect devs to work a miracle to win a race.

Game On.....

For your first part about Blu-ray maybe you can ask the PGR4 people if they can fit their full game on the DVD. Second for your cell argument is cell as mainstream as 360 which is similar to PC architecture, no. Is the 360's graphics gonna improve by leaps and bounds next year, no. The PS3 has plenty of room to improve on its graphics give it some time to be fully exploited like 360. Then we can discuss it further.

Izzy12345

Of course the PS3 has room to improve...IT HASNT SHOWN ANYTHING IMPRESSIVE AS OF YET THIS GEN!!!! When you are on the bottom you have nowhere to go but up!!

As for the comment about capacity, there will always be a devs complaining about capacity, its what they do well....If you wanna throw stones, what about the comment from Kojima-san that said the 25gb Blu-ray disc may be too small for MGS4?!?!? For every dev that makes a comment about capacity, another will create a blockbuster on the "inferior" format to void the previous rants of the complaining dev....its all relative!

Game On...

You know whats more unnaceptable...thet 360 failure rate being as high as it is, and myself being on my 4th.jt8b2z

Exactly, Im on my 3rd. Dont hate on blu ray or cell its new technology you have to be patient. Games have learning curves and so does new technology. The Ps3's chipset is superior you just gota give devs time to figure out how to write code thats optimized to use all the spe's and extra space to there advantage.

Well, from a tech junkie's point of view, the PS3 is a bargain as a Blu Ray player. It has one of the better Blu Ray drives and also HDMI 1.3 output, something only found in the $600+ players. And I got a good deal when I got the 5 free Blu Rays along with the price drop. So I got a really cheap, really good Blu Ray/DVD up convertingplayer with a PS3 built in. Thanks Sony!afmsquid

Fair enough, well said..

Unfortunately, most of the PS3 buyers thought they were getting a great video game system just as they did with the PS1/PS2 with added perks. Instead they got a tech-heads wet dream of a good inexpensive home theater system.....that can play games!

Game On...

[QUOTE="Izzy12345"]

For your first part about Blu-ray maybe you can ask the PGR4 people if they can fit their full game on the DVD. Second for your cell argument is cell as mainstream as 360 which is similar to PC architecture, no. Is the 360's graphics gonna improve by leaps and bounds next year, no. The PS3 has plenty of room to improve on its graphics give it some time to be fully exploited like 360. Then we can discuss it further.

FatalDomain

Of course the PS3 has room to improve...IT HASNT SHOWN ANYTHING IMPRESSIVE AS OF YET THIS GEN!!!! When you are on the bottom you have nowhere to go but up!!

As for the comment about capacity, there will always be a devs complaining about capacity, its what they do well....If you wanna throw stones, what about the comment from Kojima-san that said the 25gb Blu-ray disc may be too small for MGS4?!?!? For every dev that makes a comment about capacity, another will create a blockbuster on the "inferior" format to void the previous rants of the complaining dev....its all relative!

Game On...

huh, you say it has not shown anything impressive this gen, ok, although for something that is so hard to develop for it comes close to 360 on similar titles, just BTW those titles are second gen 360 vs. first gen ports for PS3. So if the PS3 has nowhere to go but up it would seem the up is better than the 360.

hmm I did not hear Kojima complaing and also BD is 50G so I dont see the big deal.

The ability to use external hdd's makes ps3 sexy, its built to last and remotely accessing ps3 and whatevers on my external hdd with my psp is killer. Homes gona rock . Warhawks gona rock, UT3 too :D . 08-09 game lineup makes me drool, Hasnt broke down on me once...

You think ps3 is crippled by having 2x 256 ram instead of 1x 512? Its actually an advantage and the tflops advantage over 360 shows this.

You just gota give it afew more months to warm up IMO. :D

[QUOTE="jt8b2z"]You know whats more unnaceptable...thet 360 failure rate being as high as it is, and myself being on my 4th.DrAwsomeness

i'm on 4 too

im on my first and i brought it to my friends house in a duffel bag

( i had a towel under it if that makes a difference)

[QUOTE="jt8b2z"]You know whats more unnaceptable...thet 360 failure rate being as high as it is, and myself being on my 4th.DazKurupt

Exactly, Im on my 3rd. Dont hate on blu ray or cell its new technology you have to be patient. Games have learning curves and so does new technology. The Ps3's chipset is superior you just gota give devs time to figure out how to write code thats optimized to use all the spe's and extra space to there advantage.

Im on my 3rd 360 as well (no regrets, I have a good warranty). As a consumer investing in a product I dont have to be patient. When a console hits the market it should have what interests you to purchase the console....GAMES!!! Im not talking about a entire lineup of AAA games, but at least something worth the price of admission with good titles in the near future. Its bad enough we have to wait a year or longer for great games on a systems that is dev friendly and you want us (consumers) to wait even longer because a company has the inability to create dev friendly electronics as well as lack the knowledge to use it themselves?!?!? You dont get kudos for putting everything including the kitchen sink into a product if devs cant work the damn thang without reinventing the wheel....

By the time devs figure out the PS3 this gen will be over. The "next gen" started Nov 2005 and will probably be over in fall 2010 or 2011. While a few years may seem like enough time for the PS3 to shine, it hasnt even pulled into the starting gate to begin its metamorphosis in a great console...time is running out for the PS3!

Game On...

The truth has been spoken!! Ps3 is a total joke shame all the cows are to hypnotized by the Sony hype to realize it.Nugtoka

What are you puffing on? PS3 is like closest a console has come to being a gaming pc. Once the system has been around awhile people while realize it.

Blu ray is still great for gaming no matter why its in the ps3 , reads more data stores more data=good.

This the same kinda talk when ps2 was to have dvd. It still rocked and dvd became a standard mediumso quickly because of ps2.

[QUOTE="DazKurupt"]

[QUOTE="jt8b2z"]You know whats more unnaceptable...thet 360 failure rate being as high as it is, and myself being on my 4th.FatalDomain

Exactly, Im on my 3rd. Dont hate on blu ray or cell its new technology you have to be patient. Games have learning curves and so does new technology. The Ps3's chipset is superior you just gota give devs time to figure out how to write code thats optimized to use all the spe's and extra space to there advantage.

Im on my 3rd 360 as well (no regrets, I have a good warranty). As a consumer investing in a product I dont have to be patient. When a console hits the market it should have what interests you to purchase the console....GAMES!!! Im not talking about a entire lineup of AAA games, but at least something worth the price of admission with good titles in the near future. Its bad enough we have to wait a year or longer for great games on a systems that is dev friendly and you want us (consumers) to wait even longer because a company has the inability to create dev friendly electronics as well as lack the knowledge to use it themselves?!?!? You dont get kudos for putting everything including the kitchen sink into a product if devs cant work the damn thang without reinventing the wheel....

By the time devs figure out the PS3 this gen will be over. The "next gen" started Nov 2005 and will probably be over in fall 2010 or 2011. While a few years may seem like enough time for the PS3 to shine, it hasnt even pulled into the starting gate to begin its metamorphosis in a great console...time is running out for the PS3!

Game On...

You speak as if they dont have a killer line up and havnt had any games at all come out... Sure they could have given devs more tools way back when they got there first kits I dont deny they need better strategy on keeping devs up to date on the new technology advancements they introduce.

Seriously though just slapping some cookie cutter parts into a box vs developing new technology.... I reward the new tech even thoughI know it will take time to see the benifits. Sonys consoles arent left out in the cold after 4 years eitherthey outlast the competitors every generation so far...even last gen when they burst b4 MS.

[QUOTE="FatalDomain"][QUOTE="Izzy12345"]

For your first part about Blu-ray maybe you can ask the PGR4 people if they can fit their full game on the DVD. Second for your cell argument is cell as mainstream as 360 which is similar to PC architecture, no. Is the 360's graphics gonna improve by leaps and bounds next year, no. The PS3 has plenty of room to improve on its graphics give it some time to be fully exploited like 360. Then we can discuss it further.

Izzy12345

Of course the PS3 has room to improve...IT HASNT SHOWN ANYTHING IMPRESSIVE AS OF YET THIS GEN!!!! When you are on the bottom you have nowhere to go but up!!

As for the comment about capacity, there will always be a devs complaining about capacity, its what they do well....If you wanna throw stones, what about the comment from Kojima-san that said the 25gb Blu-ray disc may be too small for MGS4?!?!? For every dev that makes a comment about capacity, another will create a blockbuster on the "inferior" format to void the previous rants of the complaining dev....its all relative!

Game On...

huh, you say it has not shown anything impressive this gen, ok, although for something that is so hard to develop for it comes close to 360 on similar titles, just BTW those titles are second gen 360 vs. first gen ports for PS3. So if the PS3 has nowhere to go but up it would seem the up is better than the 360.

hmm I did not hear Kojima complaing and also BD is 50G so I dont see the big deal.

Thats funny how you are making excuses for the PS3 (first gen vs second gen games), the Xbox 1 had no trouble making its name known graphically in a market saturated by Sony last gen. The Xbox 1 came out the gate showing the world it was superior, so why does the rules change with Sony and its PS3?!? We as gamers are hearing a bunch of excuses and told we should compromise from the lack of performance from the PS3. I said it once, I will say it a million times...If the PS3 was not the successor of the PS2, the world would have let this system die immediately after launch, but its a Sony so it OK!

Game On...

ROTFLOL.......

My gosh, here is a "pat yourself on the back" thread.

PS3 is so technically superior, bluray is "So" needed, etc.... What a crock of crap. Do you guy's realize that this gen has about 4 for 5 more years left in it before the new crop of machines come out.

By the time developers learn some of the advantages, and work around the disadvantages of the PS3, this gen will be all but over. Give the head a shake, there is nothing special about what's upcoming for the PS3 in the next year or 2. And from the level developers are making on the PS3, by it's 5 year their will hardly be any difference.

Mix in the fact which you all seem to forget, is that the PS3 is not selling good. Developers are not gonna pour money into a system that is running in last place, whether it has a slight edge in power or not. Developers will not pour money into the smallest market, they develop for the system that sells the best, which is right now the 360. Wii(nies), don't bother with your last gen console, it sucks, period.

So tout all the power you want, deep down, you know it's just not there, nor are developers gonna waste time and money figuring out a rather new and complex way of developing for the PS3.

Had my 360 since March 2006 and going strong, playing the best gaming library of the "Next Gen", thank you very much.

why are people still saying blu-ray isn't necessary. Every week a new developer says that the have so much space with blu-ray and they aren't limited blah blah. Then comes the treads about how it isn't necessary and sony should just use hard drives with dvd 9. This is a joke why would sony step back with the ps3. first ps2 used dvd. I don't want a system that has the same drive as my ps2. i like upgrading if i'm going to spend the money on a ps3 it better have a new technology. Second a devolper knows more than a fanboy. If they like it why argue about it.jessie5788

So true. ps1 cd , ps2 dvd , ps3 blu ray, dont hate cause it outsells hd dvd 2 to 1...get over it. Sony invests in its next gen systems everytime cause they know it will reap rewards over time in the long run.

MS is half stepping in comparison, come on tack on an hd dvd... then tack on a bigger hdd and you cant even use an external hdd. Meh. I like my 360 sure but MS is trying to get $$$. 3 year extended waranty but only for red ring issues not scratching disc due to faulty optical drives = pay $100 for repair... come on.

[QUOTE="FatalDomain"][QUOTE="DazKurupt"]

[QUOTE="jt8b2z"]You know whats more unnaceptable...thet 360 failure rate being as high as it is, and myself being on my 4th.DazKurupt

Exactly, Im on my 3rd. Dont hate on blu ray or cell its new technology you have to be patient. Games have learning curves and so does new technology. The Ps3's chipset is superior you just gota give devs time to figure out how to write code thats optimized to use all the spe's and extra space to there advantage.

Im on my 3rd 360 as well (no regrets, I have a good warranty). As a consumer investing in a product I dont have to be patient. When a console hits the market it should have what interests you to purchase the console....GAMES!!! Im not talking about a entire lineup of AAA games, but at least something worth the price of admission with good titles in the near future. Its bad enough we have to wait a year or longer for great games on a systems that is dev friendly and you want us (consumers) to wait even longer because a company has the inability to create dev friendly electronics as well as lack the knowledge to use it themselves?!?!? You dont get kudos for putting everything including the kitchen sink into a product if devs cant work the damn thang without reinventing the wheel....

By the time devs figure out the PS3 this gen will be over. The "next gen" started Nov 2005 and will probably be over in fall 2010 or 2011. While a few years may seem like enough time for the PS3 to shine, it hasnt even pulled into the starting gate to begin its metamorphosis in a great console...time is running out for the PS3!

Game On...

You speak as if they dont have a killer line up and havnt had any games at all come out... Sure they could have given devs more tools way back when they got there first kits I dont deny they need better strategy on keeping devs up to date on the new technology advancements they introduce.

Seriously though just slapping some cookie cutter parts into a box vs developing new technology.... I reward the new tech even thoughI know it will take time to see the benifits. Sonys consoles arent left out in the cold after 4 years eitherthey outlast the competitors every generation so far...even last gen when they burst b4 MS.

Consoles have always been "cookie cutter" technology as you put it. Companies used PC tech and other systems and reconfigured them in a manner that would benefit gaming. By using technology that is known, you know the pros and cons of the system as well as the means to develop software properly. With Sony and its PS3 they have a gumbo pot full of technology they barely know how to use (which is why devs tools are scarce). The pros and cons of the PS3 remained a mystery until devs got a chance to use the devs kits which is why the smoke and mirrors campaign was believable. Now we see that devs are not interested in trying to figure out the PS3 when they can create their envisioned software on a dev friendly machine.

People mention MS dropping the Xbox 1 as if MS has a long track record of dropping support for its consoles (Sega). I will give credit where its due the PS1 and PS2 turned out to be great consoles that changed the face of gaming....The PS3 is the bastard child of those great consoles by undermining everything they stood for...GAMING!!!

Game On...

ROTFLOL.......

My gosh, here is a "pat yourself on the back" thread.

PS3 is so technically superior, bluray is "So" needed, etc.... What a crock of crap. Do you guy's realize that this gen has about 4 for 5 more years left in it before the new crop of machines come out.

By the time developers learn some of the advantages, and work around the disadvantages of the PS3, this gen will be all but over. Give the head a shake, there is nothing special about what's upcoming for the PS3 in the next year or 2. And from the level developers are making on the PS3, by it's 5 year their will hardly be any difference.

Mix in the fact which you all seem to forget, is that the PS3 is not selling good. Developers are not gonna pour money into a system that is running in last place, whether it has a slight edge in power or not. Developers will not pour money into the smallest market, they develop for the system that sells the best, which is right now the 360. Wii(nies), don't bother with your last gen console, it sucks, period.

So tout all the power you want, deep down, you know it's just not there, nor are developers gonna waste time and money figuring out a rather new and complex way of developing for the PS3.

Had my 360 since March 2006 and going strong, playing the best gaming library of the "Next Gen", thank you very much.

AgentVX

Actually the ps3 is outselling 360 in many regions despite the higher price tag.

[QUOTE="AgentVX"]

ROTFLOL.......

My gosh, here is a "pat yourself on the back" thread.

PS3 is so technically superior, bluray is "So" needed, etc.... What a crock of crap. Do you guy's realize that this gen has about 4 for 5 more years left in it before the new crop of machines come out.

By the time developers learn some of the advantages, and work around the disadvantages of the PS3, this gen will be all but over. Give the head a shake, there is nothing special about what's upcoming for the PS3 in the next year or 2. And from the level developers are making on the PS3, by it's 5 year their will hardly be any difference.

Mix in the fact which you all seem to forget, is that the PS3 is not selling good. Developers are not gonna pour money into a system that is running in last place, whether it has a slight edge in power or not. Developers will not pour money into the smallest market, they develop for the system that sells the best, which is right now the 360. Wii(nies), don't bother with your last gen console, it sucks, period.

So tout all the power you want, deep down, you know it's just not there, nor are developers gonna waste time and money figuring out a rather new and complex way of developing for the PS3.

Had my 360 since March 2006 and going strong, playing the best gaming library of the "Next Gen", thank you very much.

DazKurupt

Actually the ps3 is outselling 360 in many regions despite the higher price tag.

Please enlighten us all on those special regions... Guam, Turkey, that small island that time forgot?!?!?

Game On...

why are people still saying blu-ray isn't necessary. Every week a new developer says that the have so much space with blu-ray and they aren't limited blah blah. Then comes the treads about how it isn't necessary and sony should just use hard drives with dvd 9. This is a joke why would sony step back with the ps3. first ps2 used dvd. I don't want a system that has the same drive as my ps2. i like upgrading if i'm going to spend the money on a ps3 it better have a new technology. Second a devolper knows more than a fanboy. If they like it why argue about it.jessie5788

See, right here is just stupid fanboy talk. He/she goes on talking about not wanting "last gen" stuff, but is playing with a last gen controller without rumble. Oh, I forgot, rumble is last gen.........and the motion control, LOL, boy, that sure turned up to be a great feature..........ROTFLOL........

Go play resistance, or Motorstorm. I know there launch titles, but the only decent games right now for a system that is sorely missing, ahhhh, well, games. Oh, I forgot, you can watch bluray movies on your gaming system, one that won't even support java applets. The bluray player is already out of date on the PS3, and I won't mention those longer load times. At least with those longer load times, you can cook some KD before the level loads.

[QUOTE="DazKurupt"][QUOTE="FatalDomain"][QUOTE="DazKurupt"]

[QUOTE="jt8b2z"]You know whats more unnaceptable...thet 360 failure rate being as high as it is, and myself being on my 4th.FatalDomain

Exactly, Im on my 3rd. Dont hate on blu ray or cell its new technology you have to be patient. Games have learning curves and so does new technology. The Ps3's chipset is superior you just gota give devs time to figure out how to write code thats optimized to use all the spe's and extra space to there advantage.

Im on my 3rd 360 as well (no regrets, I have a good warranty). As a consumer investing in a product I dont have to be patient. When a console hits the market it should have what interests you to purchase the console....GAMES!!! Im not talking about a entire lineup of AAA games, but at least something worth the price of admission with good titles in the near future. Its bad enough we have to wait a year or longer for great games on a systems that is dev friendly and you want us (consumers) to wait even longer because a company has the inability to create dev friendly electronics as well as lack the knowledge to use it themselves?!?!? You dont get kudos for putting everything including the kitchen sink into a product if devs cant work the damn thang without reinventing the wheel....

By the time devs figure out the PS3 this gen will be over. The "next gen" started Nov 2005 and will probably be over in fall 2010 or 2011. While a few years may seem like enough time for the PS3 to shine, it hasnt even pulled into the starting gate to begin its metamorphosis in a great console...time is running out for the PS3!

Game On...

You speak as if they dont have a killer line up and havnt had any games at all come out... Sure they could have given devs more tools way back when they got there first kits I dont deny they need better strategy on keeping devs up to date on the new technology advancements they introduce.

Seriously though just slapping some cookie cutter parts into a box vs developing new technology.... I reward the new tech even thoughI know it will take time to see the benifits. Sonys consoles arent left out in the cold after 4 years eitherthey outlast the competitors every generation so far...even last gen when they burst b4 MS.

Consoles have always been "cookie cutter" technology as you put it. Companies used PC tech and other systems and reconfigured them in a manner that would benefit gaming. By using technology that is known, you know the pros and cons of the system as well as the means to develop software properly. With Sony and its PS3 they have a gumbo pot full of technology they barely know how to use (which is why devs tools are scarce). The pros and cons of the PS3 remained a mystery until devs got a chance to use the devs kits which is why the smoke and mirrors campaign was believable. Now we see that devs are not interested in trying to figure out the PS3 when they can create their envisioned software on a dev friendly machine.

People mention MS dropping the Xbox 1 as if MS has a long track record of dropping support for its consoles (Sega). I will give credit where its due the PS1 and PS2 turned out to be great consoles that changed the face of gaming....The PS3 is the bastard child of those great consoles by undermining everything they stood for...GAMING!!!

Game On...

Nintendo and sega didnt use cookie cutter tech and nintendo still doesnt , even the pc parts 360 uses are somewhat modified.

PS2 was talked about the exact same way as ps3 as being a bastard...

Fact is ps3 will be devoloped 4 for a long time to come and the games do get better overtime and you can expect something killer to come out 5 years from now. Like god of war 2 did on ps2.

Look at epic and UT3 they love ps3 and psn's less restrictive structurelook at how rockstar is developing exclusives for ps3 after gta4. 360 has madden 08 at 60 fps though .... yippie you can have your cruddy multi plat EA superiority heh its just due to ea saving a buck anyway.

So true. ps1 cd , ps2 dvd , ps3 blu ray, dont hate cause it outsells hd dvd 2 to 1...get over it. Sony invests in its next gen systems everytime cause they know it will reap rewards over time in the long run. DazKurupt

Ummm, and this has to gaming, how???

MS is half stepping in comparison, come on tack on an hd dvd... then tack on a bigger hdd and you cant even use an external hdd. Meh. I like my 360 sure but MS is trying to get $$$. 3 year extended waranty but only for red ring issues not scratching disc due to faulty optical drives = pay $100 for repair... come on. DazKurupt

Tell me exactly, what's MS position in "HD DVD" please. I thought this was Toshiba's little project. Besides rooting for HD DVD, I don't see much if any money from MS going to HD DVD.

Scratching disc issue, lol, please.........hasn't been a huge issue.

And please tell us since you so seemed to be concerned with hardware issues, what exactly happens when you little BluRay player on the PS3 dies, and your out of your warranty. Ummmm, that's right, have to buy a whole new PS3. WOW, tell me who the sucker is.....????

[QUOTE="jessie5788"]why are people still saying blu-ray isn't necessary. Every week a new developer says that the have so much space with blu-ray and they aren't limited blah blah. Then comes the treads about how it isn't necessary and sony should just use hard drives with dvd 9. This is a joke why would sony step back with the ps3. first ps2 used dvd. I don't want a system that has the same drive as my ps2. i like upgrading if i'm going to spend the money on a ps3 it better have a new technology. Second a devolper knows more than a fanboy. If they like it why argue about it.AgentVX

See, right here is just stupid fanboy talk. He/she goes on talking about not wanting "last gen" stuff, but is playing with a last gen controller without rumble. Oh, I forgot, rumble is last gen.........and the motion control, LOL, boy, that sure turned up to be a great feature..........ROTFLOL........

Go play resistance, or Motorstorm. I know there launch titles, but the only decent games right now for a system that is sorely missing, ahhhh, well, games. Oh, I forgot, you can watch bluray movies on your gaming system, one that won't even support java applets. The bluray player is already out of date on the PS3, and I won't mention those longer load times. At least with those longer load times, you can cook some KD before the level loads.

you reply made me laugh. stupid fanboy talk. i'm talking about the blu-ray format not the controller but i'll reply. last i heard sony putting rumble back it may be a rumor but i don't care. second you didn't make a intelligent reply about anything i said. blu ray being out of date?? first i heard that, i didn't hear developers maxing out 50gb. like i said before a developers > fanboy(you)

[QUOTE="DazKurupt"] So true. ps1 cd , ps2 dvd , ps3 blu ray, dont hate cause it outsells hd dvd 2 to 1...get over it. Sony invests in its next gen systems everytime cause they know it will reap rewards over time in the long run. AgentVX

Ummm, and this has to gaming, how???

MS is half stepping in comparison, come on tack on an hd dvd... then tack on a bigger hdd and you cant even use an external hdd. Meh. I like my 360 sure but MS is trying to get $$$. 3 year extended waranty but only for red ring issues not scratching disc due to faulty optical drives = pay $100 for repair... come on. DazKurupt

Tell me exactly, what's MS position in "HD DVD" please. I thought this was Toshiba's little project. Besides rooting for HD DVD, I don't see much if any money from MS going to HD DVD.

Scratching disc issue, lol, please.........hasn't been a huge issue.

And please tell us since you so seemed to be concerned with hardware issues, what exactly happens when you little BluRay player on the PS3 dies, and your out of your warranty. Ummmm, that's right, have to buy a whole new PS3. WOW, tell me who the sucker is.....????

More capacity and more data read = good for games , like some pc games require optical drives that arent bootsy 2 speeds same thing. More data on disc means more data in game.

Theres been multiple law suits over the scratching and ive experienced it on 3 different consoles ...thats pretty big...

Nintendo and sega didnt use cookie cutter tech and nintendo still doesnt , even the pc parts 360 uses are somewhat modified.

PS2 was talked about the exact same way as ps3 as being a bastard...

Fact is ps3 will be devoloped 4 for a long time to come and the games do get better overtime and you can expect something killer to come out 5 years from now. Like god of war 2 did on ps2.

Look at epic and UT3 they love ps3 and psn's less restrictive structurelook at how rockstar is developing exclusives for ps3 after gta4. 360 has madden 08 at 60 fps though .... yippie you can have your cruddy multi plat EA superiority heh its just due to ea saving a buck anyway.

DazKurupt

You really believe that Nintendo and Sega reinvented the wheel to make their consoles? How sad...

All multiplat games have been subpar on the PS3 (except Oblivion) why only mention Madden 08'?

Fact you dont know how long Sony will support the PS3 with its lagging sales in the market...

Yes the PS2 was ridiculed about BEFORE launch, but after it hit the market was praised non-stop....vice versa for the PS3!

Why would I need to wait 5 years from now for a killer app when one is already in stores (Bioshock) and another next month(Halo 3)?

This damage control is getting old and lame, just stop and admit Sony dropped the ball this gen....but hey the reason why they are still in the game this gen is because of Sony loyalist such as yourself:

"Its ok Sony, I know you crapped on all of our gaming hopes and dreams, we still gonna be here for ya when you get right!!!"

Love,

The Sony Fanboy

Game On...

[QUOTE="AgentVX"]

[QUOTE="jessie5788"]why are people still saying blu-ray isn't necessary. Every week a new developer says that the have so much space with blu-ray and they aren't limited blah blah. Then comes the treads about how it isn't necessary and sony should just use hard drives with dvd 9. This is a joke why would sony step back with the ps3. first ps2 used dvd. I don't want a system that has the same drive as my ps2. i like upgrading if i'm going to spend the money on a ps3 it better have a new technology. Second a devolper knows more than a fanboy. If they like it why argue about it.jessie5788

See, right here is just stupid fanboy talk. He/she goes on talking about not wanting "last gen" stuff, but is playing with a last gen controller without rumble. Oh, I forgot, rumble is last gen.........and the motion control, LOL, boy, that sure turned up to be a great feature..........ROTFLOL........

Go play resistance, or Motorstorm. I know there launch titles, but the only decent games right now for a system that is sorely missing, ahhhh, well, games. Oh, I forgot, you can watch bluray movies on your gaming system, one that won't even support java applets. The bluray player is already out of date on the PS3, and I won't mention those longer load times. At least with those longer load times, you can cook some KD before the level loads.

you reply made me laugh. stupid fanboy talk. i'm talking about the blu-ray format not the controller but i'll reply. last i heard sony putting rumble back it may be a rumor but i don't care. second you didn't make a intelligent reply about anything i said. blu ray being out of date?? first i heard that, i didn't hear developers maxing out 50gb. like i said before a developers > fanboy(you)

I never said that bluray was out of date, now, did I? I said it's slow, has not much to do with gaming this gen, and all the touted benifits will only benifit the very few right now, or 5 years down the line. Bluray has killed the PS3 in term of sales, and will always be the system out of reach for the mainstream consumer until 4 or 5 years down the line, in which the new systems will be around the corner.

Bluray for a gaming system is the single worst thing Sony could of done, but the best for pushing a newcopy protected/restricted movie format down the consumers throats. But, thanks for trying!

More capacity and more data read = good for games , like some pc games require optical drives that arent bootsy 2 speeds same thing. More data on disc means more data in game.

Theres been multiple law suits over the scratching and ive experienced it on 3 different consoles ...thats pretty big...

DazKurupt

I won't disagree that more space is better, just that it's not needed this gen.

As for your comment on scratching on 3 different systems you've owned, your just lost credibility sport. Nobody I have ever played with online, or my friends list which is a small "22" has ever had a disc scratched. Your nothing more than a "lifer" on the fanboy forums, that will do anything to bash a console that I'm sure you don't even own. LOL, "pathetic" to say the least.....

Yet another fanboy around here who doesn't know crap about the Playstation 3.

[QUOTE="DazKurupt"]

Nintendo and sega didnt use cookie cutter tech and nintendo still doesnt , even the pc parts 360 uses are somewhat modified.

PS2 was talked about the exact same way as ps3 as being a bastard...

Fact is ps3 will be devoloped 4 for a long time to come and the games do get better overtime and you can expect something killer to come out 5 years from now. Like god of war 2 did on ps2.

Look at epic and UT3 they love ps3 and psn's less restrictive structurelook at how rockstar is developing exclusives for ps3 after gta4. 360 has madden 08 at 60 fps though .... yippie you can have your cruddy multi plat EA superiority heh its just due to ea saving a buck anyway.

FatalDomain

You really believe that Nintendo and Sega reinvented the wheel to make their consoles? How sad...

All multiplat games have been subpar on the PS3 (except Oblivion) why only mention Madden 08'?

Fact you dont know how long Sony will support the PS3 with its lagging sales in the market...

Yes the PS2 was ridiculed about BEFORE launch, but after it hit the market was praised non-stop....vice versa for the PS3!

Why would I need to wait 5 years from now for a killer app when one is already in stores (Bioshock) and another next month(Halo 3)?

This damage control is getting old and lame, just stop and admit Sony dropped the ball this gen....but hey the reason why they are still in the game this gen is because of Sony loyalist such as yourself:

"Its ok Sony, I know you crapped on all of our gaming hopes and dreams, we still gonna be here for ya when you get right!!!"

Love,

The Sony Fanboy

Game On...

They were the best consoles of there time and they didnt use same old pc parts .....cartridges and sega cd... 4 runner of even using discs...

Not all I have both consoles and play both and it goes both ways depending on the game imo.

Actually the ps3s sales have been strong especialy since the price cut and will only sell more each day heh.

No ps2 was getting bad press for at least 9 months after it was launched due to lack of games. I bought 1 at launch and remember and Time magazine did same type articles it did on ps3. Look at Times archives and see what i mean.

Who needs to wait 5 years you miss the point ..... In 5 years you will still see killer games on ps3 where as 360 not as likely.

I just tell it like it is cause thats the way it is bro I game on every platform and know whats what built my own rig that exceeds the performance of any console but still game on consoles due to the console games ....not being on pc...except bioshock , gears , halo they are on pc ....oh.

Yup I gots 360 but pre order bioshock on pc , Mass effect and halo 3 , 1st party exclusives main reason i purchase consoles.

Yet another fanboy around here who doesn't know crap about the Playstation 3.

whitetiger3521

LOL, the only crap I know about the PS3 is it is in LAST PLACE in console sales, multiplats run worse, online capabilities horrible compared to XBL, no rumble on the controller, brutal gaming library and that after my warranty runs out and the Bluray laser dies, that I don't have to buy a whole new expensive console.

[QUOTE="DazKurupt"]

More capacity and more data read = good for games , like some pc games require optical drives that arent bootsy 2 speeds same thing. More data on disc means more data in game.

Theres been multiple law suits over the scratching and ive experienced it on 3 different consoles ...thats pretty big...

AgentVX

I won't disagree that more space is better, just that it's not needed this gen.

As for your comment on scratching on 3 different systems you've owned, your just lost credibility sport. Nobody I have ever played with online, or my friends list which is a small "22" has ever had a disc scratched. Your nothing more than a "lifer" on the fanboy forums, that will do anything to bash a console that I'm sure you don't even own. LOL, "pathetic" to say the least.....

Dont get upset .... Its true the failure rates arent some make believe ..... I could prove it to you by scaning the repair papers i got when my 360 was repaired ...but i dont need to i have videos of my rig and consoles and notice in the second rig video the 360 is gone for repair... click ~rigs~ in my sig to see :D

Didn't you fancy mentioning the PS3's better qualities? There are many things wrong with the 360 and Wii too.SolidSnake35

Winner.