for the misinformed

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=81785777&postcount=2692

More PS4 vs XB1 power threads. 

PS4 is better GAMING platform than Xflop. The only question is by how much.

• How can drivers in console still be un-finished and the hardware not final when they've gone into mass production?
• DirectX has been on the platform since the start, it's not buggy or "poor" it just works due to shared codebase. They also released their mono driver during E3 which is the specially optimised version of DirectX for the platform. So saying they have been late with drivers is flat out wrong.
• They mention "without optimisation". To me, that means someone is working these numbers out without a real kit, and is literally speculating for EDGE for their page views in this upcoming next-gen war. There is more offloaded inside the X1 to special CPU's than there is in the PS4 also.
• 6 more CU's mean the whole console is 50% faster does it? Its a very well known fact that extra CU's dramatically decrease the efficiency of multi-threading tasks and the shader cores them selves. Its not a linear performance gain, it depends on many factors. I'm not saying the PS4 GPU hasn't got more CU's which it has. What about if I say the PS4 GPU is going to have a lot more to work on outside of games compared to the X1. This includes video encoding, video decoding and even like Mark Cerny said, a lot of the audio tasks will be offloaded to the GPU due to the fact that the GPU is a parralel processing unit which isn't effected by GDDR latency in the same way as the CPU is. Those extra CU's are starting to become less and less without the custom architecture to back them up. Oh and the developers have a lot more leg work managing the threading and task handling of the GPU.
• Memory reads are 50% faster? From what? I can tell you as a fact that if its the CPU doing the memory read, it would be a heck lot slower. Even if its the GPU doing the read, it the developer doesn't implement the switching of tasks while waiting for GDDR return, then it'll still be slower. It depends how deep the OpenGL wrapper goes.

By any means, I'm not saying the PS4 doesn't have more of a GPU, because it does. The thing is though, it needs that GPU when you've got a CPU crippled by GDDR latency. Audio processing (not be confused by the audio encoder in the PS4) will have to be off-loaded to the GPU, a lot of the physics will be handled by the GPU. Those extra CU's start decreasing and decreasing and when you've got a CPU which you have to think a lot about because they've put GDDR in there, then you're starting to see what Albert Penello is saying.

1st point:  Driver updates are constant.  What parallel dimension is this person coming from?  Graphics cards are shipped and sold with TONS of driver updates afterward!  My GeForce 285GTX STILL gets updated periodically.

2:I would be MUCH more concerned about the XBone if they were NOT updating its toolchains since E3.  That should be a work in constant progress, just like optimizing and fine-tuning the drivers.  To lean back on their updates by looking at it with a past frame of reference tells me that he is either fully aware that he is pulling the wool over your eyes or he is too goddamn ignorant of game development to be making this post in the first place.

3:He just contradicted himself here.  Obviously, code would need to be written to call out to specific hardware.  He should have caught his own snap on this.  He just blurted out a big reason why games need to be reworked more to run on the XBone than they do for the PS4.

4: Ubisoft's The Crew development team already said they have a lot of GPU-compute headroom with the PS4 that they do not with the XBox One.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

5: Do a google search for "clamshelling" and "GDDR5" and see what develops ;)

A thread about a post on another forum?MonsieurX

Better than the gibberish from a typical Tighaman topic, but still bad.

In fact, with all the hub-bub a few months ago about how they had to completely bullshit their way through the Kinect demonstrations at their unveiling conference, how can we NOT come to the conclusion that their firmware was not undergoing revision up to this point?  What an utter load of malarky!

Hey, Microsoft.  If everything was fleshed out at E3, like this post claims, then why weren't all games running on XBox One hardware instead of overspecc'd PCs?

Never heard of Neogaf.freedomfreak

It is like System Wars, except you get banned for trolling.

More PS4 vs XB1 power threads. 

psymon100

We should have known the "Power" Struggle between Lems and Cows would continue after Gen 7.

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Never heard of Neogaf.StrongBlackVine

It is like System Wars, except you get banned for trolling.

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"]Never heard of Neogaf.freedomfreak

It is like System Wars, except you get banned for trolling.

The majority of useful information that gets posted here is taken from there.

[QUOTE="psymon100"]

More PS4 vs XB1 power threads. 

LegatoSkyheart

We should have known the "Power" Struggle between Lems and Cows would continue after Gen 7.

I can't imagine the launch titles will settle the score either. Oh well. At least these threads which discuss the power on paper are always so fresh and interesting. They never ever bore me. OK now hang on I just have to find a pic...

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[QUOTE="freedomfreak"][QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

It is like System Wars, except you get banned for trolling.

StrongBlackVine

The majority of useful information that gets posted here is taken from there.

Damn, TCHBO :cool:RR360DD

• How can drivers in console still be un-finished and the hardware not final when they've gone into mass production?
• DirectX has been on the platform since the start, it's not buggy or "poor" it just works due to shared codebase. They also released their mono driver during E3 which is the specially optimised version of DirectX for the platform. So saying they have been late with drivers is flat out wrong.
• They mention "without optimisation". To me, that means someone is working these numbers out without a real kit, and is literally speculating for EDGE for their page views in this upcoming next-gen war. There is more offloaded inside the X1 to special CPU's than there is in the PS4 also.
• 6 more CU's mean the whole console is 50% faster does it? Its a very well known fact that extra CU's dramatically decrease the efficiency of multi-threading tasks and the shader cores them selves. Its not a linear performance gain, it depends on many factors. I'm not saying the PS4 GPU hasn't got more CU's which it has. What about if I say the PS4 GPU is going to have a lot more to work on outside of games compared to the X1. This includes video encoding, video decoding and even like Mark Cerny said, a lot of the audio tasks will be offloaded to the GPU due to the fact that the GPU is a parralel processing unit which isn't effected by GDDR latency in the same way as the CPU is. Those extra CU's are starting to become less and less without the custom architecture to back them up. Oh and the developers have a lot more leg work managing the threading and task handling of the GPU.
• Memory reads are 50% faster? From what? I can tell you as a fact that if its the CPU doing the memory read, it would be a heck lot slower. Even if its the GPU doing the read, it the developer doesn't implement the switching of tasks while waiting for GDDR return, then it'll still be slower. It depends how deep the OpenGL wrapper goes.

By any means, I'm not saying the PS4 doesn't have more of a GPU, because it does. The thing is though, it needs that GPU when you've got a CPU crippled by GDDR latency. Audio processing (not be confused by the audio encoder in the PS4) will have to be off-loaded to the GPU, a lot of the physics will be handled by the GPU. Those extra CU's start decreasing and decreasing and when you've got a CPU which you have to think a lot about because they've put GDDR in there, then you're starting to see what Albert Penello is saying.Shewgenja

1st point:  Driver updates are constant.  What parallel dimension is this person coming from?  Graphics cards are shipped and sold with TONS of driver updates afterward!  My GeForce 285GTX STILL gets updated periodically.

 

2:I would be MUCH more concerned about the XBone if they were NOT updating its toolchains since E3.  That should be a work in constant progress, just like optimizing and fine-tuning the drivers.  To lean back on their updates by looking at it with a past frame of reference tells me that he is either fully aware that he is pulling the wool over your eyes or he is too goddamn ignorant of game development to be making this post in the first place.

 

3:He just contradicted himself here.  Obviously, code would need to be written to call out to specific hardware.  He should have caught his own snap on this.  He just blurted out a big reason why games need to be reworked more to run on the XBone than they do for the PS4.

 

4: Ubisoft's The Crew development team already said they have a lot of GPU-compute headroom with the PS4 that they do not with the XBox One.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

 

5: Do a google search for "clamshelling" and "GDDR5" and see what develops ;)

[QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

• How can drivers in console still be un-finished and the hardware not final when they've gone into mass production?
• DirectX has been on the platform since the start, it's not buggy or "poor" it just works due to shared codebase. They also released their mono driver during E3 which is the specially optimised version of DirectX for the platform. So saying they have been late with drivers is flat out wrong.
• They mention "without optimisation". To me, that means someone is working these numbers out without a real kit, and is literally speculating for EDGE for their page views in this upcoming next-gen war. There is more offloaded inside the X1 to special CPU's than there is in the PS4 also.
• 6 more CU's mean the whole console is 50% faster does it? Its a very well known fact that extra CU's dramatically decrease the efficiency of multi-threading tasks and the shader cores them selves. Its not a linear performance gain, it depends on many factors. I'm not saying the PS4 GPU hasn't got more CU's which it has. What about if I say the PS4 GPU is going to have a lot more to work on outside of games compared to the X1. This includes video encoding, video decoding and even like Mark Cerny said, a lot of the audio tasks will be offloaded to the GPU due to the fact that the GPU is a parralel processing unit which isn't effected by GDDR latency in the same way as the CPU is. Those extra CU's are starting to become less and less without the custom architecture to back them up. Oh and the developers have a lot more leg work managing the threading and task handling of the GPU.
• Memory reads are 50% faster? From what? I can tell you as a fact that if its the CPU doing the memory read, it would be a heck lot slower. Even if its the GPU doing the read, it the developer doesn't implement the switching of tasks while waiting for GDDR return, then it'll still be slower. It depends how deep the OpenGL wrapper goes.

By any means, I'm not saying the PS4 doesn't have more of a GPU, because it does. The thing is though, it needs that GPU when you've got a CPU crippled by GDDR latency. Audio processing (not be confused by the audio encoder in the PS4) will have to be off-loaded to the GPU, a lot of the physics will be handled by the GPU. Those extra CU's start decreasing and decreasing and when you've got a CPU which you have to think a lot about because they've put GDDR in there, then you're starting to see what Albert Penello is saying.Tighaman

1st point:  Driver updates are constant.  What parallel dimension is this person coming from?  Graphics cards are shipped and sold with TONS of driver updates afterward!  My GeForce 285GTX STILL gets updated periodically.

 

2:I would be MUCH more concerned about the XBone if they were NOT updating its toolchains since E3.  That should be a work in constant progress, just like optimizing and fine-tuning the drivers.  To lean back on their updates by looking at it with a past frame of reference tells me that he is either fully aware that he is pulling the wool over your eyes or he is too goddamn ignorant of game development to be making this post in the first place.

 

3:He just contradicted himself here.  Obviously, code would need to be written to call out to specific hardware.  He should have caught his own snap on this.  He just blurted out a big reason why games need to be reworked more to run on the XBone than they do for the PS4.

 

4: Ubisoft's The Crew development team already said they have a lot of GPU-compute headroom with the PS4 that they do not with the XBox One.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

 

5: Do a google search for "clamshelling" and "GDDR5" and see what develops ;)

[QUOTE="Tighaman"][QUOTE="Shewgenja"]

• How can drivers in console still be un-finished and the hardware not final when they've gone into mass production?
• DirectX has been on the platform since the start, it's not buggy or "poor" it just works due to shared codebase. They also released their mono driver during E3 which is the specially optimised version of DirectX for the platform. So saying they have been late with drivers is flat out wrong.
• They mention "without optimisation". To me, that means someone is working these numbers out without a real kit, and is literally speculating for EDGE for their page views in this upcoming next-gen war. There is more offloaded inside the X1 to special CPU's than there is in the PS4 also.
• 6 more CU's mean the whole console is 50% faster does it? Its a very well known fact that extra CU's dramatically decrease the efficiency of multi-threading tasks and the shader cores them selves. Its not a linear performance gain, it depends on many factors. I'm not saying the PS4 GPU hasn't got more CU's which it has. What about if I say the PS4 GPU is going to have a lot more to work on outside of games compared to the X1. This includes video encoding, video decoding and even like Mark Cerny said, a lot of the audio tasks will be offloaded to the GPU due to the fact that the GPU is a parralel processing unit which isn't effected by GDDR latency in the same way as the CPU is. Those extra CU's are starting to become less and less without the custom architecture to back them up. Oh and the developers have a lot more leg work managing the threading and task handling of the GPU.
• Memory reads are 50% faster? From what? I can tell you as a fact that if its the CPU doing the memory read, it would be a heck lot slower. Even if its the GPU doing the read, it the developer doesn't implement the switching of tasks while waiting for GDDR return, then it'll still be slower. It depends how deep the OpenGL wrapper goes.

By any means, I'm not saying the PS4 doesn't have more of a GPU, because it does. The thing is though, it needs that GPU when you've got a CPU crippled by GDDR latency. Audio processing (not be confused by the audio encoder in the PS4) will have to be off-loaded to the GPU, a lot of the physics will be handled by the GPU. Those extra CU's start decreasing and decreasing and when you've got a CPU which you have to think a lot about because they've put GDDR in there, then you're starting to see what Albert Penello is saying.Shewgenja

1st point:  Driver updates are constant.  What parallel dimension is this person coming from?  Graphics cards are shipped and sold with TONS of driver updates afterward!  My GeForce 285GTX STILL gets updated periodically.

 

2:I would be MUCH more concerned about the XBone if they were NOT updating its toolchains since E3.  That should be a work in constant progress, just like optimizing and fine-tuning the drivers.  To lean back on their updates by looking at it with a past frame of reference tells me that he is either fully aware that he is pulling the wool over your eyes or he is too goddamn ignorant of game development to be making this post in the first place.

 

3:He just contradicted himself here.  Obviously, code would need to be written to call out to specific hardware.  He should have caught his own snap on this.  He just blurted out a big reason why games need to be reworked more to run on the XBone than they do for the PS4.

 

4: Ubisoft's The Crew development team already said they have a lot of GPU-compute headroom with the PS4 that they do not with the XBox One.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

 

5: Do a google search for "clamshelling" and "GDDR5" and see what develops ;)

Somebody should have informed you, this is a blog post ;)