force feedback analogue sticks?

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crunchUK

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#1 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

well i was living my life when i had an awesome brainwave: what if you were to make a force feeback analogue stick??come on, that would own, instead of your gun recoiling, the analogue stick actually moves upwards, or when you skid in a car, the annalogues stick actually moves, or like, in a fighting game, you get hit and get jarred backwards.

so what do you think is this an amazing idea or what? :D. i think it would make a great leap for the next generation.

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locopatho

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#2 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. But pretty cool nonetheless.
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crunchUK

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#3 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. But pretty cool nonetheless.locopatho

LAWSUIT? :O meaning someone has already invented it???

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mr_mozilla

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#4 mr_mozilla
Member since 2006 • 2381 Posts
:o That's an awesome idea! Tho I imagine it would be hard to implement while keeping the controller small enough, and it would eat lot of power in wireless pads. Still, I'd buy one.
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foxhound_fox

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#5 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. But pretty cool nonetheless.crunchUK

LAWSUIT? :O meaning someone has already invented it???


Someone most likely already owns a vague patent that could be interpreted as your idea.
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mjarantilla

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#6 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

well i was living my life when i had an awesome brainwave: what if you were to make a force feeback analogue stick??come on, that would own, instead of your gun recoiling, the analogue stick actually moves upwards, or when you skid in a car, the annalogues stick actually moves, or like, in a fighting game, you get hit and get jarred backwards.

so what do you think is this an amazing idea or what? :D. i think it would make a great leap for the next generation.

crunchUK

What's the point? Vibrate does pretty much the same thing, but stronger.

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crunchUK

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#7 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="locopatho"]Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. But pretty cool nonetheless.foxhound_fox

LAWSUIT? :O meaning someone has already invented it???


Someone most likely already owns a vague patent that could be interpreted as your idea.

hehe i'm 15 how am i supposed to "invest" in it and such and whatnot??? i just thought that it would be incredibly exciting. hell i'd say more evolutiuonary than wiimote.

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crunchUK

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#8 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"]

well i was living my life when i had an awesome brainwave: what if you were to make a force feeback analogue stick??come on, that would own, instead of your gun recoiling, the analogue stick actually moves upwards, or when you skid in a car, the annalogues stick actually moves, or like, in a fighting game, you get hit and get jarred backwards.

so what do you think is this an amazing idea or what? :D. i think it would make a great leap for the next generation.

mjarantilla

What's the point? Vibrate does pretty much the same thing, but stronger.

i mean like a force feedback wheel. ever tried one of those? it forcefully steers to one dircetion or another when you skid or something. sure they're much bigger motors but then how much stonger is your arm compared to your thumb??

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BubbyJello

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#9 BubbyJello
Member since 2007 • 2750 Posts
Could be cool.
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JPOBS

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#10 JPOBS
Member since 2007 • 9675 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"]

well i was living my life when i had an awesome brainwave: what if you were to make a force feeback analogue stick??come on, that would own, instead of your gun recoiling, the analogue stick actually moves upwards, or when you skid in a car, the annalogues stick actually moves, or like, in a fighting game, you get hit and get jarred backwards.

so what do you think is this an amazing idea or what? :D. i think it would make a great leap for the next generation.

mjarantilla

What's the point? Vibrate does pretty much the same thing, but stronger.

If by vibrate you mean rumble, then no it doesnt even come close to what he's saying.
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bobbetybob

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#11 bobbetybob
Member since 2005 • 19370 Posts
Sounds alright but it'd be better if the whole gamepad did it rather than the sticks, it'd be too easy to have the stick slip out from your thumb if it flyies off the right after being hit. If the whole pad had like 20 different vibration points that'd be better, and say you get hit from your right hand side in a fighting game then the pad rumbles on the right. Stuff like that would be cool.
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qweewewq

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#12 qweewewq
Member since 2008 • 70 Posts
terrible idea why the hell would you want to fight the analog? lol
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crunchUK

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#13 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

terrible idea why the hell would you want to fight the analog? lol qweewewq

:roll::roll::roll:

ever heard of immersion?? enhancing gameplay??

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PS2_ROCKS

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#14 PS2_ROCKS
Member since 2003 • 4679 Posts
That is an interesting idea. Battery life would probably take a hit with an additional 4 motors for the feedback though.
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qweewewq

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#15 qweewewq
Member since 2008 • 70 Posts

[QUOTE="qweewewq"]terrible idea why the hell would you want to fight the analog? lol crunchUK

:roll::roll::roll:

ever heard of immersion?? enhancing gameplay??

forcefeed back was lame as crap on daytona usa arcades.

muchless analog stick.

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R4gn4r0k

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#16 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 48964 Posts
Wouldn't the problem be that your thumb just slides of the stick then ?
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crunchUK

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#17 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

That is an interesting idea. Battery life would probably take a hit with an additional 4 motors for the feedback though.PS2_ROCKS

yeah they'd have to be wired i guess but who cares i actually prefer wired controllers bercause i throw my 360 controller on my bed (with white covers) and spend ages and ages searching for it

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br0kenrabbit

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#18 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18091 Posts
I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.
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crunchUK

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#19 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

Wouldn't the problem be that your thumb just slides of the stick then ?R4gn4r0k

i don't see how it would do that easily. at least with 360s inward going thumbsticks (concave amirite?)

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crunchUK

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#20 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts

I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.br0kenrabbit

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

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br0kenrabbit

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#21 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18091 Posts

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.crunchUK

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

The problem there is that thumbsticks have such a small direction of travel, any force feedback would completly overwhelm whatever control input you're trying to provide.
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crunchUK

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#22 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.br0kenrabbit

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

The problem there is that thumbsticks have such a small direction of travel, any force feedback would completly overwhelm whatever control input you're trying to provide.

nah it's all a question of balance

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br0kenrabbit

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#23 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18091 Posts
[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.crunchUK

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

The problem there is that thumbsticks have such a small direction of travel, any force feedback would completly overwhelm whatever control input you're trying to provide.

nah it's all a question of balance

Obviously you haven't used a Force Feedback stick.
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crunchUK

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#24 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.br0kenrabbit

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

The problem there is that thumbsticks have such a small direction of travel, any force feedback would completly overwhelm whatever control input you're trying to provide.

nah it's all a question of balance

Obviously you haven't used a Force Feedback stick.

guess again

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br0kenrabbit

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#25 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18091 Posts
[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="crunchUK"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.crunchUK

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

The problem there is that thumbsticks have such a small direction of travel, any force feedback would completly overwhelm whatever control input you're trying to provide.

nah it's all a question of balance

Obviously you haven't used a Force Feedback stick.

guess again

Then you'd know one of the results of force feedback is that it moves your controller. With the limited range of thumbsticks, the range of movement, however small, would be exaggerated due to their small input range. It's math, don't try and argue.
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angelkimne

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#26 angelkimne
Member since 2006 • 14037 Posts

Weird.

But cool nonetheless. I would love to see how it would play out...

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river_rat3117

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#27 river_rat3117
Member since 2003 • 3474 Posts
sounds like alot of broken analog sticks to me. people trying to hard to keep the stick in place and snap! now its broke.
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crunchUK

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#28 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="crunchUK"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="crunchUK"]

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"]I have a force-feedback stick, that happens to be analog. Microsoft Force Feedback Pro.br0kenrabbit

yeah but i mean thumbstick.

The problem there is that thumbsticks have such a small direction of travel, any force feedback would completly overwhelm whatever control input you're trying to provide.

nah it's all a question of balance

Obviously you haven't used a Force Feedback stick.

guess again

Then you'd know one of the results of force feedback is that it moves your controller. With the limited range of thumbsticks, the range of movement, however small, would be exaggerated due to their small input range. It's math, don't try and argue.

so? you can easily limit the "range" of the force feedback, or just make a tumbstick with more degrees of pushing forward. also you are pushing against it. with a force feedback wheel it goes entirely to the end in some cases. the point is you are going against it.

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cabjnico

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#29 cabjnico
Member since 2003 • 748 Posts

force feedbac analog sticks would be expensive and very fragile because they're too small to have it

and it'd be a pain in the ass

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ThePlothole

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#30 ThePlothole
Member since 2007 • 11515 Posts
It's an interesting idea. However the controller would have to be needlessly heavy+bulky in order to fit the extra motors and reinforced parts.
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PBSnipes

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#31 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts
It's a cool idea, but I don't see how it could be effectively implemented, at least not without making the controller prohibitively expensive.
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br0kenrabbit

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#32 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18091 Posts

so? you can easily limit the "range" of the force feedback, or just make a tumbstick with more degrees of pushing forward. also you are pushing against it. with a force feedback wheel it goes entirely to the end in some cases. the point is you are going against it.

crunchUK
You can't go against it instantly, you muscles don't work like that. The force must be present BEFORE you can counter-act it, and it's during this onset of force that the controller moves. Besides, hold your hand out in front of you and hold it perfectly still. You can't. Your muscles don't work on constant forces, they work by a series of contractions. This is why you can't hold your hand in front of you perfectly still. This is why you can't stand up straight without swaying slightly as your muscles work and relax to keep you upright.
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#33 Truth_Hurts_U
Member since 2006 • 9703 Posts
Hmm... When I am playing a shooter the last thing I want is my thumb pushing/pulling/vibrating making my aim messed up.
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crunchUK

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#34 crunchUK
Member since 2007 • 3050 Posts
[QUOTE="crunchUK"]

so? you can easily limit the "range" of the force feedback, or just make a tumbstick with more degrees of pushing forward. also you are pushing against it. with a force feedback wheel it goes entirely to the end in some cases. the point is you are going against it.

br0kenrabbit

You can't go against it instantly, you muscles don't work like that. The force must be present BEFORE you can counter-act it, and it's during this onset of force that the controller moves. Besides, hold your hand out in front of you and hold it perfectly still. You can't. Your muscles don't work on constant forces, they work by a series of contractions. This is why you can't hold your hand in front of you perfectly still. This is why you can't stand up straight without swaying slightly as your muscles work and relax to keep you upright.

again. steering wheel.

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br0kenrabbit

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#35 br0kenrabbit
Member since 2004 • 18091 Posts

again. steering wheel.

crunchUK
Are you even paying attention? The difference is if the force feedback makes you move a half-inch on the steering wheel, it's not a problem because the range of motion on the steering wheel is far greater than that of the thumbstick. If you move half an inch on the thumbstick, that's the entire range of the thumbstick. This is why force feedback REQUIRES a greater range of motion to be useful. Thumbsticks are just too limiting.
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mjarantilla

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#36 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="crunchUK"]

well i was living my life when i had an awesome brainwave: what if you were to make a force feeback analogue stick??come on, that would own, instead of your gun recoiling, the analogue stick actually moves upwards, or when you skid in a car, the annalogues stick actually moves, or like, in a fighting game, you get hit and get jarred backwards.

so what do you think is this an amazing idea or what? :D. i think it would make a great leap for the next generation.

JPOBS

What's the point? Vibrate does pretty much the same thing, but stronger.

If by vibrate you mean rumble, then no it doesnt even come close to what he's saying.

Actually, it does. Haptic technology allows vibrations that produce directional forces to simulate movement in that direction.

Force feedback on a steering wheel, or flight stick, or a gun peripheral (like in the game Sniper Scope), etc., that's fine, because those kinds of controllers are meant to simulate. Those make sense. But force feedback on an analog stick is a total waste of effort, because analog sticks are generic abstractions that don't simulate anything. Directional rumble is just as good.

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AAllxxjjnn

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#37 AAllxxjjnn
Member since 2008 • 19992 Posts
That wouldn't work.