Getting up to Speed on the Xbox One eSRAM/Downclock Controversy

Here is a nice recap of what happened over at GAF, so you guys here can get the clear picture:

A recap of this thread:

- DF link for "X1 eSRAM performance increase by 88%"

- 1st couple pages of people saying good news, and others asking if it makes it better than PS4, and even some saying "CBOAT fail" - CBOAT Fail

- Some members finding that the math is wrong and in conclusion = Downclock!

- Same members stating that the DF article is pure PR from MS

- Finding out that DF's source is MS directly (pure speculation imo) due to a Tweet. Tweet Image

l2amza

So in the end, absolutely nothing has changed about the Xbox One's hardware specs. 

I think you have a basic misunderstanding of the original article and claims.

Theoretical maximums by their very nature do not factor in inefficacies. Hence the article saying real world improvements (e.g. factoring in inefficacies) was 133GB/s.

The valid point everyone keep making is if MS have found out a way to double the bandwidth of the ESRAM, that new figure would be exactly twice that (100% increase) of the initial 102GB/s theoretical max. But it's not, it's 88% increase, or 1.92x more. The figures just don't add up.

I think that DF just jumped the gun and wrote an article before they had clarified the finer details (and the audience for DF articles are all about the finer details). I don't believe that MS is lying, or have fabricated numbers, or even that this confirms a downclock. MS (or a dev privy to the info) just need to clarify the math behind it.

SPE

lol is this all people can do is repost neogaf content?

lol is this all people can do is repost neogaf content?

WilliamRLBaker

I still remember when the 360 came out and IGN posted a funny piece that turned out to be misunderstood PR. It worked years ago, why not do it again?

lol By Richard Leadbetter. :lol: He's still Leadbetter doing what he does best, lmao. After all these years it's hilarious how people are confused when Leadbetter hides behind a title of Digital Foundry. DF is basically him, and he's a joke. Leadbetter was once again so eager to write this piece, jumping the gun again. It is clear that Leadbetter wrote an article before he had clarified the finer details (the readers of DF are the target demographic that feed on finer details). He was happy to hear this PR, and jumped a bit to quick. This isn't a surprise to me, but others seem astounded by his behaviour...I forgot others are younger and perhaps just learning things. It's cycle, and meanwhile Leadbetter will carry one through a whole new generation of suckers.

Theoretical maximums are guess what? Theoretical. That means by their very nature inefficacies will not be factored. This is why the Leadbetter article sourced by apparently some PR is claiming real world improvements (exempli gratia factoring inefficacies) was 133 GB/s.

The extremely valid point people that care keep bringing up is if M$ have found out a way to double the bandwidth of the ESRAM in Xbox One, that new figure would be exactly twice that (100% increase) of the initial 102 GB/s theoretical maximum. However, this is not the case. Instead we see an 88% increase, or 1.92x. These numbers simply don't add up. This is SW though, so let's keep it light.

Leadbetter said, "Well-placed development sources..." in the article so who knows exactly where this all comes from, but looking at that tweet it's pretty reasonable to guess this was all PR. It's boring PR too. If it's not PR, it could be fanboy enthusiasm, or even legit, but we still don't know who the sources are, and it's not looking good at time goes on. Maybe that was the point. Oh goodness at that twitter pic though, lol.

The source was MS,there was a downgrade,and this is the reason why MS refuse to say the clock speed of the GPU,this is very simple,MS comes say our hardware is 800mhz since day one,we are on target,even if the GPU has less resources.

Instead what MS does.?

Contact DF and tell them that they now discover that the xbox one has even faster bandwidth based on read and writes,and stated a nunber,but they tell DF as if they were a developers source,(second scenario will be that DF knew it was MS and were told or pay to not say).

This remind me of online need it,DRM and no used games that lemmings refuse to admit,and that MS dance around for endless months only to confirms it at the end,and yet lemming don't see the similarities.

Now the fight is about downclocks and MS still refuse to come clean on spec and lemmings still don't believe it..

Not sure how anyone can buy a console and not know its true performance.

Thats like a car manufacturer hiding the MPG and horsepower of a new vehicle.  Obviously its terrible and thats why they're hiding it.

All companies try PR tricks like embellishing hardware specs but MS is shameless even in the face of being caught.

I still remember when the 360 came out and IGN posted a funny piece that turned out to be misunderstood PR. It worked years ago, why not do it again?

lol By Richard Leadbetter. :lol: He's still Leadbetter doing what he does best, lmao. After all these years it's hilarious how people are confused when Leadbetter hides behind a title of Digital Foundry. DF is basically him, and he's a joke. Leadbetter was once again so eager to write this piece, jumping the gun again. It is clear that Leadbetter wrote an article before he had clarified the finer details (the readers of DF are the target demographic that feed on finer details). He was happy to hear this PR, and jumped a bit to quick. This isn't a surprise to me, but others seem astounded by his behaviour...I forgot others are younger and perhaps just learning things. It's cycle, and meanwhile Leadbetter will carry one through a whole new generation of suckers.

Theoretical maximums are guess what? Theoretical. That means by their very nature inefficacies will not be factored. This is why the Leadbetter article sourced by apparently some PR is claiming real world improvements (exempli gratia factoring inefficacies) was 133 GB/s.

The extremely valid point people that care keep bringing up is if M$ have found out a way to double the bandwidth of the ESRAM in Xbox One, that new figure would be exactly twice that (100% increase) of the initial 102 GB/s theoretical maximum. However, this is not the case. Instead we see an 88% increase, or 1.92x. These numbers simply don't add up. This is SW though, so let's keep it light.

Leadbetter said, "Well-placed development sources..." in the article so who knows exactly where this all comes from, but looking at that tweet it's pretty reasonable to guess this was all PR. It's boring PR too. If it's not PR, it could be fanboy enthusiasm, or even legit, but we still don't know who the sources are, and it's not looking good at time goes on. Maybe that was the point. Oh goodness at that twitter pic though, lol.

SolidTy

Yeah, but who is this guy? Leadbetter has proven himself to be knowledgeable and impartial in my eyes. If he has any degree of bias I would actually say he seems to heap a little too much praise on PS3 exclusives.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

I still remember when the 360 came out and IGN posted a funny piece that turned out to be misunderstood PR. It worked years ago, why not do it again?

lol By Richard Leadbetter. :lol: He's still Leadbetter doing what he does best, lmao. After all these years it's hilarious how people are confused when Leadbetter hides behind a title of Digital Foundry. DF is basically him, and he's a joke. Leadbetter was once again so eager to write this piece, jumping the gun again. It is clear that Leadbetter wrote an article before he had clarified the finer details (the readers of DF are the target demographic that feed on finer details). He was happy to hear this PR, and jumped a bit to quick. This isn't a surprise to me, but others seem astounded by his behaviour...I forgot others are younger and perhaps just learning things. It's cycle, and meanwhile Leadbetter will carry one through a whole new generation of suckers.

Theoretical maximums are guess what? Theoretical. That means by their very nature inefficacies will not be factored. This is why the Leadbetter article sourced by apparently some PR is claiming real world improvements (exempli gratia factoring inefficacies) was 133 GB/s.

The extremely valid point people that care keep bringing up is if M$ have found out a way to double the bandwidth of the ESRAM in Xbox One, that new figure would be exactly twice that (100% increase) of the initial 102 GB/s theoretical maximum. However, this is not the case. Instead we see an 88% increase, or 1.92x. These numbers simply don't add up. This is SW though, so let's keep it light.

Leadbetter said, "Well-placed development sources..." in the article so who knows exactly where this all comes from, but looking at that tweet it's pretty reasonable to guess this was all PR. It's boring PR too. If it's not PR, it could be fanboy enthusiasm, or even legit, but we still don't know who the sources are, and it's not looking good at time goes on. Maybe that was the point. Oh goodness at that twitter pic though, lol.

kalipekona

Yeah, but who is this guy? Leadbetter has proven himself to be knowledgeable and impartial in my eyes. If he has any degree of bias I would actually say he seems to heap a little too much praise on PS3 exclusives.

He has proven the opposite of that in my eyes, and he has done so for a very long time...but to each their own. I believe the exact opposite of what you believe, but I'm not going to regurgitate old SW arguments you missed in SW that I was invested in over the many years I've been here in this thread tonight.

I think you are having a bit of fun with that post, and I wish you well with that.

This actual debate has been tackled in great fury over at NeoGaf if you really want to engage the issue, or Leadbetters lol reputation...because I'm not your man in 2013. It's true what GXGear said, SW is like a time machine if you read this affair over there, and trying to go over this all again here.

Happy gaming.

whatever happened to the Oban blitter rumor that turned out to be utter BS. 384GB of bandwith matched with 3 soc 2 Venus and one Mars for 4 teraflops. Back to the real world i don't even think MS know what the VCR can do, imo at the end of the day both X1 and PS4 have the same cpu's and both have 8gb or ram. PS4 has faster ram and more usable ram, and a 40% stronger GPU. 

lol is this all people can do is repost neogaf content?

WilliamRLBaker

NeoGaf>>>>>>>>>>>Gamespot

NeoGaf>>>>>>>>>>>Gamespot

heeweesRus

lol this thing again does cows can't wait till console out 

lol is this all people can do is repost neogaf content?

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="kalipekona"]

 

Leadbetter has proven himself to be knowledgeable and impartial in my eyes. 

SolidTy

He has proven the opposite of that in my eyes, and he has done so for a very long time...but to each their own.

All I see is a bunch of fanboys getting pissed of. One side calling him a fanboy of the other side and the other side doing the opposite. The only opinion a fanboy can accept after all is the opinion he has. You're not doing it right unless you praise the company I praise. 

Can the CPU access the eSRAM, being the eSRAM part of the GPU? Did they implement something for this?

Im not wondering on a bandwith lvl, CPU doesnt need that much. But certain assets need to be accessed from memory both by the CPU and GPU, and if the CPU cant read/write the eSRAM the data needs to be copied to the DDR3 too.

Unless they use the eSRAM for cache only, that would make things simpler.

ohhhhh so confusing! Y u do this MS?

nah.. ill just get a PS4 so i dont need to stress out.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

lol is this all people can do is repost neogaf content?

Tadgerot

That sucks. I don;t trust gaf for tech info that much anymore because of this.

[QUOTE="Tadgerot"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

lol is this all people can do is repost neogaf content?

super600

That sucks. I don;t trust gaf for tech info that much anymore because of this.

You have been quoting them for percentages and tech information for quite some time. Are you saying this new unknown poster's one post has completely disrupted your modus operandi?

Does this have anything to do with how a large number of Gaf themselves have been talking about Xbox One lately by any chance?

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

He has proven the opposite of that in my eyes, and he has done so for a very long time...but to each their own. I believe the exact opposite of what you believe, but I'm not going to regurgitate old SW arguments you missed in SW that I was invested in over the many years I've been here in this thread tonight.

I think you are having a bit of fun with that post, and I wish you well with that.

This actual debate has been tackled in great fury over at NeoGaf if you really want to engage the issue, or Leadbetters lol reputation...because I'm not your man in 2013. It's true what GXGear said, SW is like a time machine if you read this affair over there, and trying to go over this all again here.

Happy gaming.

edidili

All I see is a bunch of fanboys getting pissed of. One side calling him a fanboy of the other side and the other side doing the opposite. The only opinion a fanboy can accept after all is the opinion he has. You're not doing it right unless you praise the company I praise. 

What if pray tell Leadbetter actually is a fanboy himself?

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="Tadgerot"] You have this spot on. People are asking where the 88% comes from, the move engines I suspect. As for NeoGaf I have lost respect for them, simply the way they run there business is strange. It took me god knows how long before the staff finally signed me up so I could post. When I had the chance to post I posted infomation from my sauce regarding the mem compression/decompression (I had infomation to back my claims from someone who works for AMD), this was before the XBO reveal so this info was not out there yet ( or if it was NeoGaf where not discussing it). Before I could post emails backing up my infomation I was perma banned for 'insider nonesence'. I took this on the chin and sent the staff and email saying something along the lines of, " ok I have been banned because you don't Beleive me, when this infomation is fully out in the wild, will you reverse your decision'. I received nothing back. When the info was out in the wild, I sent the staff another email saying something like ' ok, now the info is out in the wild, I can no longer be banned for insider nonsense as what I predicted has come true, to this date still no reply' My point being if I was not banned and they would have allowed me to prove what I was saying was true, then we could have been discussing it long ago. People read Gaf, like I once did and think its the holy grail, but if they are so keen to dismiss jr members who have solid valid infomation then how can they be trusted to tell the facts. Lets face it, there is a select group of people on Gaf and they are very picky who they let in so so speak. Seems like a great idea as you will only have quality discussion regarding accurate infomation,right? Wrong, if Gaf pushes away infomation like mine, how many others have they done it too... In short Gaf is missing out on upto date info because there mods love to hit the big red buttons to soon, even worse is that when the mods are proven wrong they will not admit it and reverse the decision. In which case it leave gaf with only selective infomation.SolidTy

That sucks. I don;t trust gaf for tech info that much anymore because of this.

You have been quoting them for percentages and tech information for quite some time. Are you saying this new unknown poster's one post has completely disrupted your modus operandi?

Does this have anything to do with how a large number of Gaf themselves have been talking about Xbox One lately by any chance?

I did that before I found out what the mods did to the user I quoted.I care little about their opinions about the xbox one.I read a lot of tech related things from B3D now a days.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

[QUOTE="super600"]

 

That sucks. I don;t trust gaf for tech info that much anymore because of this.

super600

You have been quoting them for percentages and tech information for quite some time. Are you saying this new unknown poster's one post has completely disrupted your modus operandi?

Does this have anything to do with how a large number of Gaf themselves have been talking about Xbox One lately by any chance?

I did that before I found out what the mods did to the user I quoted.I care little about their opinions about the xbox one.I read a lot of tech related things from B3D now a days.

The user you quoted is brand new, and let's be honest, we don't even know him from a glory hole in the wall. He told us his story (with no proof or evidence). If you dig we also can see that mods at Gaf considers him a lemming fanboy liar that got busted, and while they may have been harsh, we don't know their side of it, and what posts were deleted and PMed.

I'm just weary of a user we don't even know in general, so imagine my surprise when he sings a story and you completely change how you are going to approach information.

It's all good, I never thought quoting a different forum was the best approach when you did do it. I always thought it was sketchy when someone asked you where you heard something, you said, "I read it by some users at Gaf". That means you were cherry picking random forumers, and using that as your reasons on why X machine was powerful, and PS machine not so good, and Wii U good, etc.

That was already sketchy material you were quoting then, so if anything this change is good...but I'm just surprised a new (2 weeks?) account with only 52 posts at Gamespot with a anecdotal story (aka no evidence) has so much power over your posting habits. I'm glad you won't be referencing an entire forum as why you say what you say, but I didn't know the way to fix your habits were so easy... :P

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

You have been quoting them for percentages and tech information for quite some time. Are you saying this new unknown poster's one post has completely disrupted your modus operandi?

Does this have anything to do with how a large number of Gaf themselves have been talking about Xbox One lately by any chance?

SolidTy

I did that before I found out what the mods did to the user I quoted.I care little about their opinions about the xbox one.I read a lot of tech related things from B3D now a days.

The user you quoted is brand new, and let's be honest, we don't even know him from a glory hole in the wall. He told us his story (with no proof or evidence). If you dig we also can see that mods at Gaf considers him a lemming fanboy liar that got busted, and while they may have been harsh, we don't know their side of it, and what posts were deleted and PMed.

I'm just weary of a user we don't even know in general, so imagine my surprise when he sings a story and you completely change how you are going to approach information.

It's all good, I never thought quoting a different forum was the best approach when you did do it. I always thought it was sketchy when someone asked you where you heard something, you said, "I read it by some users at Gaf". That means you were cherry picking random forumers, and using that as your reasons on why X machine was powerful, and PS machine not so good, and Wii U good, etc.

That was already sketchy material you were quoting then, so if anything this change is good...but I'm just surprised a new (2 weeks?) account with only 52 posts at Gamespot with a anecdotal story (aka no evidence) has so much power over your posting habits. I'm glad you won't be referencing an entire forum as why you say what you say, but I didn't know the way to fix your habits were so easy... :P

Microsoft has such awful business practices and should take note from my company Sony©HiraiKazuo

[QUOTE="HiraiKazuo"]Microsoft has such awful business practices and should take note from my company Sony©shawn30