Graphics are fundemental to a next-gen system

Ok- dont get me wrong- I personally think that Nintendo have done a very brave thing with the Wii & so far its paid off. the Wiimote certainly adds a new dimension to its games- but graphically the console isnt a leap beyond the original Xbox which is 6 years old.

Now the reason why people buy next-gen machines is because the technology inside them is more advanced which allows for mainly better graphics but also AI & audio. But like i said the main talking point is about the graphics- the machine with the best graphics doesnt always- win- the machine thats affordable, released on time & has a good lineup of games usually comes out tops & the PS1 & PS2 show this.

The reason why i bought my Xbox360 was because i knew that it has better graphics than my old Xbox- sure i thought my Xbox was great & i loved playing on it for hours & hours- but if i look back now at those games- they are just not as appealing anymore- YES ive played them a lot- but if u just look at the graphics on them its surprising how dated they look.

Improving the graphics is all about immersion - you want the game to feel more 'real'- the AI & audio also help too- but thats the fundemental reason why people want better & better graphics- imagine having a top end PC & playing Half-life2 with the settings turned all the way down- its not nearly as much fun is it?

Yes the Wii-mote is a lot of fun- but if u ask me after time you do get used to it & i personally see nothing wrong with playing on a keyboard & mouse or gamepad. no matter how cool the bowling on the Wii is- its never going to be the same as real bowling- close- but not close enough.

Remember video games arent real-life & while we would like the games to look more & more real- having the games actually play more 'real' is a mixed-blessing & not wanted by everyone.

Theres nothing "brave" about the Wii. It was a financial lock.

They are making profit on every console they sell, so it is virtually impossible for them to "lose" money on such a console regardless of how hard it fell in sales. Tie that in which a cheap price tag and Nitendos top shelf first party games and the Wii is a brilliant strategy.

Unfortunately all this comes at a price. A price i'm not convinced is worthwhile for our beloved industry.

your wrongpintabear49blue

well if im wrong theny why do we even need new generations of consoles?

Theres nothing "brave" about the Wii. It was a financial lock.

They are making profit on every console they sell, so it is virtually impossible for them to "lose" money on such a console regardless of how hard it fell in sales. Tie that in which a cheap price tag and Nitendos top shelf first party games and the Wii is a brilliant strategy.

Unfortunately all this comes at a price. A price i'm not convinced is worthwhile for our beloved industry.

KirbyFan10101

That's not true, there was a certain amount of fixed cost associated with researching and developing the Wii. Setting up factories meant building a certain number of units. Given the initial Wii shortages, and the long delays in ramping up production, there's actually evidence that Nintendo did not see a stellar financial success. They took a calculated risk, and when it paid off, they ramped up production to meet the huge surge in demand.


Like everything in business, the Wii was a gamble - a calculated, meticulously researched gamble, where the cost of failure was minimized as much as possible, but still a gamble.

your wrongpintabear49blue

Is that ur response in every thread?

Sorry, I have to disagree. The fundamental reason of owning a dubbed 'next-gen' machine would be to play games that aren't accessable to gamers from what's currently available.

The Wii is testament to the point that power and graphics aren't the only reason to own one. It's also shines the reason that any console can house great games no matter the cost.

What's really should be the driving force of 'next-gen' are the games. Mind you there are alot of great games but hardly anything different from what I've played before. The amount of Sequels, ports and multiplats being churned out is a huge consern of mine.

[QUOTE="pintabear49blue"]your wronga4reak

Is that ur response in every thread?

Every thread he doesn't have the attention span to read.

nintendo choosing the wii as its next-gen console was a risk, and i compliment them on that.

graphics are fundamental. but what does it matter when you're having fun? and during gameplay, graphical differences become less apparent. not in the visual sense, but once you're playing the game, as long as you're having fun, the graphics just become 2nd place. its like who cares about graphics, this is fun.

i suppose for some, graphics is a real biggie. you can't blame people's personal opinions but i just think graphics will never be no.1 priority.

ofcourse they are along with all the ohter things ...

but of all the things to become better the games sure do play the same 9 times out of ten..

and the wii is doing the same things too they just use a different controller.

Like everything in business, the Wii was a gamble - a calculated, meticulously researched gamble, where the cost of failure was minimized as much as possible, but still a gamble.

subrosian

[QUOTE="pintabear49blue"]your wrongCwlHeddwyn

well if im wrong theny why do we even need new generations of consoles?

If it was about graphics we'd be playing Pac Man in HD.

Next gen is about advancing gaming.

Graphics can be part of this but it's also about controls, sound, gameplay, style, the way games are perceived in society, ...

And graphics don't have to be realistic to be good. Graphics can be a form of art. (XIII, Viewtiful Joe)

And if you look beyond the shooter, racer and sports sim genres, graphics don't matter that much.

MMORPG's are about community first.

Management simulations are about realistic business models.

Jump & Runs are about controls.

Adventures are about story.

Sure graphics matter but i still play Sam & Max or Day of the Tentacle rather than Myst.

And graphics don't have to be realistic to be good. Graphics can be a form of art. (XIII, Viewtiful Joe)Feisar76

agreed. if i recall correctly, okami was a great sucess.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]Like everything in business, the Wii was a gamble - a calculated, meticulously researched gamble, where the cost of failure was minimized as much as possible, but still a gamble. Teufelhuhn

If I'm not mistaken, Nintendo actually boosted the R&D heading for the Wii... For the life of me I can't find the link. :x

Ah, here it is... Link. It's not that big of a margin in 'increase' though. :?

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

Like everything in business, the Wii was a gamble - a calculated, meticulously researched gamble, where the cost of failure was minimized as much as possible, but still a gamble.

Teufelhuhn

That's true, which is backed by the low production numbers. They were keeping low, or no, backstock (inventory for them) on the Wii, simply because if it failed, they didn't want to be left footing the bill. I'm curious just how far they stuck their necks out though, that's something we'd need an insider peek into the company to find out.

The real question for Nintendo is - where do they go from here? I'm putting out a safe assumption that a handheld is the next move for them (before another console) but what will that handheld be? What will their next console be? Are they willing to take an even greater risk with their next console, will they blue ocean again?

I still feel the Wii was far more of a risk than was communicated by raw cash investment though - if the Wii had been a market failure, Nintendo would have forfeited another console cycle to Sony and Microsoft. They would have lost a great deal of potential profit, and essentially made this the third generation where they were a niche player. The opportunity cost of creating the Wii, over going with something more traditional, had the potential to be staggering. We will never know what could have been though, so I suppose that sort of thought wanders into an alley and sits by itself in the dark. "What could have been" is a phantom of the mind.

Watch now, the people saying Nintendo set a bad example will be partially right. Wii dominates this gen in sales, and next gen MS and Sony release consoles with no improvement over their current ones but with new motion sensing controllers on par with the Wii Mote, while Nintendo releases a a console with a much upgraded Wii Mote and the console is again a modern graphical powerhouse, ensuring the large market share they gained with the Wii stays with them next gen :P.

Now I'm just messing about,but I do think Nintendo's goal this gen was to vastly increase it's audience, far beyond the levels of it's competitors, so that a lot of these "non-gamers" can be eventually be converted to hardcore gamers, who of course would then be loyal to Nintendo, and support them next gen where I believe they'll re-enter the graphics race, with a console once again comparable to their rivals, but now with a huge loyal fanbase, maximizing profit.

IMO next gen consoles are about introducing a technology that was notpreviously available, most choose to improve graphics, sound, game depth etc, making the same games more entertaining and iteresting.

Nintendo decided to go a different way and change how the games are played, designing a console which makes the user more phisicaly involved, and with the growing concern over obesity who can blame them. Nintendo had to do something different, releasing a system with similar gameplay and graphics to the 360 or ps3 wasnt going to win them any new customers or convince the users of those systems to buy the Nintendo instead.

I think graphics are an important part of mostnext gen systems but, obviously by the sales figures theyre not the be all and end all. I bet the next Wii will have much better graphics though.

[QUOTE="KirbyFan10101"]

Theres nothing "brave" about the Wii. It was a financial lock.

They are making profit on every console they sell, so it is virtually impossible for them to "lose" money on such a console regardless of how hard it fell in sales. Tie that in which a cheap price tag and Nitendos top shelf first party games and the Wii is a brilliant strategy.

Unfortunately all this comes at a price. A price i'm not convinced is worthwhile for our beloved industry.

subrosian

That's not true, there was a certain amount of fixed cost associated with researching and developing the Wii. Setting up factories meant building a certain number of units. Given the initial Wii shortages, and the long delays in ramping up production, there's actually evidence that Nintendo did not see a stellar financial success. They took a calculated risk, and when it paid off, they ramped up production to meet the huge surge in demand.


Like everything in business, the Wii was a gamble - a calculated, meticulously researched gamble, where the cost of failure was minimized as much as possible, but still a gamble.

One could say they purposely generated those shortages to make it seem like if you didn't get one then, you'll never get one.

As a game buyer for a rental chain of stores this is what Nintendo has been known for doing previously with their AAA software. If I remember correctly they would specifically short ship and allocate their first party software during the holidays to purposely make it a buying frenzy for that specific title. The tatic is used by a lot of retailers as well so it's nothing new. Just don't fooled that this was all something done by mistake.....Nintendo was planning for a shortage that way it got more press and convinced customers they had to buy it the moment it was available.

Nintendo is incredibly brave. They're all about GAMING! While Microsoft and Sony are trying to trick you into wanting something you don't need, Nintendo is trying to keep consoles enjoyable. They're not trying to shove a digital download service down your throat nor are they trying to jam some new storage technology that will be completely worthless in 5 years. They know exactly what it will take to make great games and they positioned their technology as such, thus allowing gamers to save a fewbucks.

As far as their graphics go, they're good enough. RE4 looks awesome. While Super Paper Mario is far from a graphical showcase, it's style and art design make for a great visual experience.

It's sad that fanboys feel so ripped off by their PS3s, and to a lesser extent 360s, that they try to disparage the Wii. It's a wasted effort.

Oh and as far as the topic of the original poster, I also do not feel the Wii is truely next generation gaming system. Yeah, alot of Nintendo fans will say it has brought a new way to play games.....has it? I agree in some ways it's more intresting to play SOME sports games (if they ever release) but the core games that have driven the industry for years just do not work right with that controller.

Here is the why I believe Nintendo knows they can not keep the new controls for everything. Why would they make the SuperMelee fighting game compatiable with a normal controller? Probably because it plays better for the majority of people with a standard controller.....at least that's the assumption I have to make. Which means at that point if you play the game with a normal controller what then is the difference between the other consoles. Easy graphics, sound, AI, ect...all better on the other consoles. It's hard for me to be convinced that the new controls are the best thing since sliced bread when their top title (supermelee) is going to be compatiable with a normal controller.

The question I would like to see answered in the future is all of these new Wii owners who never played games previously, will they tire of this new hobby? My gut says yes, but it'll probably take a couple years. At that point the damage could be done and the majority of the development is geared towards what I precieve to be the inferior system. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted....

I didn't read the OP. It's some complaint about the Wii's graphics in comparison to the "gorgeous" 1080p on 360 and PS3 and remarkable graphics like Crysis, blah blah blah.

The Wii's hardware is stronger than any last gen console, and you can't tell me there weren't some great looking games last gen. If Xbox didn't come out last gen, you could've expected this gen's consoles to be no more powerful than the Wii. It's not Nintendo's fault that developers aren't utilizing the Wii hardware to its fullest.

Edit: @ above poster...

Gamers didn't exactly have a choice to make between controllers. Gamepads have been standard since Atari. There hasn't BEEN a new, functional main control scheme in many years. I can't see where you draw the assumption that players prefer using a gamepad when they haven't tried the Wiimote.

Oh and as far as the topic of the original poster, I also do not feel the Wii is truely next generation gaming system. Yeah, alot of Nintendo fans will say it has brought a new way to play games.....has it? I agree in some ways it's more intresting to play SOME sports games (if they ever release) but the core games that have driven the industry for years just do not work right with that controller.

Here is the why I believe Nintendo knows they can not keep the new controls for everything. Why would they make the SuperMelee fighting game compatiable with a normal controller? Probably because it plays better for the majority of people with a standard controller.....at least that's the assumption I have to make. Which means at that point if you play the game with a normal controller what then is the difference between the other consoles. Easy graphics, sound, AI, ect...all better on the other consoles. It's hard for me to be convinced that the new controls are the best thing since sliced bread when their top title (supermelee) is going to be compatiable with a normal controller.

The question I would like to see answered in the future is all of these new Wii owners who never played games previously, will they tire of this new hobby? My gut says yes, but it'll probably take a couple years. At that point the damage could be done and the majority of the development is geared towards what I precieve to be the inferior system. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted....

darthogre

Racing, Shooters, Puzzles, and Rhythm games are all genres that can easily be improved with the Wiimote. Brawl and Galaxy are off to prove that the Wiimote can be used more efficiently for other genres too.

Brawl is using 4 controller schemes because it can. There are many stubborn Melee players who did not want to switch over to the Wiimote for their favorite game, and lo and behold, Brawl supports all control types so anyone can play. We don't know anything about how the Wiimote is used, so your argument that it is worse than a conventional control scheme is null and void.

[QUOTE="pintabear49blue"]your wrongCwlHeddwyn

well if im wrong theny why do we even need new generations of consoles?

Agreed that the Wii is lacking in graphics but it does do a good job with what it has. But one thing about the Wii is it was designed only for games which makes it more suitable than the PS3 and 360, also it is not wasting power on other things while playing games.

You are incorrect and making an arguement based on faulty logic. You are makng an assumption that because the industry has always worked a certain way, it must mean that is what people want. This is not true. People make choices based on their spending and clearly there is a large number of people who want more than just expensive consoles with pretty graphics but always play the same games.

I know I did. I've been gaming longer than most people here have been alive. I've been gaming since consoles were invented and grew up in the arcades. And while I love graphics and sequals as much as the next person...I'm tired of the lack of innovative and original games. I'm still buying the MGS and FFs and Splinter Cell and GTA and so on, but they aren't as enjoyable as they were owhen they first became big. And why should they be, i guess, when nothing has changed but the graphics. It's boring.

Now I will admit I'm just as jaded towards Zelda and Mario. However, at least with the Wii I know something different will be available. Whether it's just mini-games and puzzles (which I hope is more than that), at least I know the Wii is going to offer me an experience I won't get on another console. And to me, a REAL gamer, that is the breath of fresh air I've been waiting for. I will still buy another console, but I can wait until they are cheaper. But there is no doubt that the WIi was a console i needed or else I may have quit gaming altogether before long. There is only so many times you can play the sme game before it gets boring...no matter what the title or graphical improvements are.

My basic point is that people never had a choice before. If they wanted to game they HAD to continuously buy the new hardware with better graphics. Or maybe there was a choice...the gameboy could be considered a choice, despite not being a competing product, and that has always sold incredible numbers. Maybe the GB's success was people asking for something more than just better graphics? Who knows. But now people have a choice I think their money is speaking louder than the words of all the haters put together.

Racing, Shooters, Puzzles, and Rhythm games are all genres that can easily be improved with the Wiimote. Brawl and Galaxy are off to prove that the Wiimote can be used more efficiently for other genres too.

Brawl is using 4 controller schemes because it can. There are many stubborn Melee players who did not want to switch over to the Wiimote for their favorite game, and lo and behold, Brawl supports all control types so anyone can play. We don't know anything about how the Wiimote is used, so your argument that it is worse than a conventional control scheme is null and void.

metroidfood

Now lets look at your response piece by piece:

You think Racing games are better on the Wii because of the controller? Oh really? You don't think an ACTUAL steering wheel is a better simulated experience than turning the wii mote horizontal? Top it off the realistic graphics makes you feel like you are driving. Hands down the Racing games are much better on X360/PS3.

Shooters......I'm really confused here. You say Wii easily improves the genre with the Wiimote.....where is your proof? Red Steel? Are you kidding me? Sorry to say this is about as bad of an arguement as the racing games are better on the Wii. Maybe you think Metroid will do it for you........I've played Metroid (last year at E3). I'm sure they've changed things however the core controls probably will not have changed. IMO after playing that game for 20 mins it was nothing special (control wise). I guess people liek the idea of continously pointing at the screen, my guess is most wouldn't. Of course that is my guess but we'll see who choose what.....when Halo 3 comes out and if Metroid out sells it, you are correct I guess.

Rhythm games.....wow you got me. Corky rhythm games designed around the Wii are great for the machine. Now please list me a "rhythm" game that was a system seller or played any role in making a console a success (of course until the Wii). Name a game that was a tent pole title.

Fighting games (which is Brawl) so far are better geared towards normal control scheme. Unless you like funky movements just to do basic attacks. Read the Mortal Kombat review. Again, it's why I believe Brawl will be playable with a NORMAL controller. Maybe because they know fighting sims do not work well with the controls?

Then you mention galaxy, guess it's kind of a 3rd person action game. We'll see how well they can implement it with this type of game. I have my doubts I'll ever like it if I have to do funky movements like Zelda....it was just redudant non-sense that half the speical abilites I couldn't do on command because the Wii mote was so frustrating.

Credit I'll give for the Wii is sports games. This to me is the ultimate sports machine. Baseball, basketball, football, bowling, boxing, golf, ect..... are definetly more fun on this machine (if done correctly). I think I would give up graphics to play a fun sports game, no doubt.

So basically out of all the different types of games IMO the Wii controls are best for sports games, rhythm games, and these non-specificsim games (like cooking mama). To me that seems so much opposite to what has driven the industry for the past 10 years. The Wii is going to need to prove they can do everything else BETTER than the PS3/X360 to actually continue its dominance. Just from avid gamers that I know the Wii is reguarded as a joke and not taken seriously even though they actually own one. My question is always "then why the hell did you buy it". Pretty much it's always "got caught up in the hype". That is pretty sad if you ask me.