GTA IV: The most technically profound game of this generation.

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di_sgt_barber

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#1 di_sgt_barber
Member since 2008 • 1082 Posts

First, I know you know about Crysis. The game is big, beautiful, and fun. But l've considered all of this and examined all of what Crysis is, and GTAIV outweighs Crysis in a lot of subtler fashions.

  • Liberty City is massive. Not quite as big as San Andreas, but that's understandable given just how complex it is. LC is fully rendered at all times. NPCs and vehicles are rendered at all times as well. This is witnessed when standing on a skyscraper, zooming in on a fat guy eating a hotdog from a mile away with a sniper rifle. You can barely make it out, but he's there. You can see traffic get held up because a guy got run over in the street, or a cop chasing a burgler and arresting him after he trips in an alleyway. This leads me to my next point.
  • The NPC AI is shockingly advanced. They answer phones and hold believable conversations, or stop and have conversations that genuinely pertain to the situation, i.e. a guy telling a young girl how good she looks, or an old lady commenting on the bad weather and being told by a "thug" to STFU, before he mugs her. You see taxi drivers tossing their coffee cups out of their windows. You see people open their umbrellas when the thunder starts to roll in. Cops witness a crime like hit and run, murder, etc., and a chase breaks out, leading all the way up to the perp being arrested and taken to jail, or ending in a violent shootout with the entire LCPD. NPCs laugh, cry, eat, sleep, rest, excercise, go to work, go home, break the law, uphold the law, and live life like a Sim with procedurally generated animations (more on that later).
  • The script is absolutely huge and branches like a willow. Every mission has alternate series of dialogue to be witnessed only through a reattempt. Police will report your vehicle and crime to eerie detail over the radio. "Suspect is travelling on [something] boulevard in a White sedan.." "We have a grand theft auto on [something] street..Suspect is travelling in a black motorcycle on [something] street.." A lot of the NPC comments are also very relevant, including comments on your attire, what you might be carrying, or your behavior in general. It's also very, very rare for them to repeat themselves.
  • The euphoria engine is absolutely incredible. Not only are the physics so convincing and so refreshing, the animations never get dull because they're never repeated. The basics of the engine were explained to me in great detail and I think it's the best thing since HAVOK. Shooting a guy in the kneecap never felt so satisfying. And the motion captured animation used in the cutscenes is terrific as well; the best I've seen since Half-Life 2. As impish as some NPC features are, they are brought to life with shocking animosity. The game is almost bug-free on consoles (compared to its predecessors, that is). It runs terrifically. After the initial loading screen, which lasts about 1 minute, you are able to access the internet, enter interiors, travel as far as you want, use the phone, play online; whatever you do, you don't have to sit through a loading screen. Absolutely incredible.
  • Considering all of the bullets listed above, it's no small compliment to say that the game really looks good even on a small scale. Explosions are strong, water effects are convincing, and the lighting is very radiant. Reflections are solid. The game doesn't just leave its competition in the dust in terms of harnessing horsepower, but is competent when trying to keep up with even the most detailed, small-scale AAA titles like Gears of War and Uncharted. This game made my brand new 360 burst into flames. I'm not joking. They really pushed the hardware with this one. 100 million, 1000+ individuals, and nearly 4 years is a lot of money, teamwork, and time, and it was not spent in vain.

So while Crysis seems like the true technical marvel to behold, I think it's these layers which it lacks that really sets GTAIV apart. No, it's not my favorite game, or even in my top 5 of last year*. But I think it's truly a masterpiece in software engineering, and one of the greatest achievements in the history of game design. *For you brown-nosers, those would be: Fallout 3, Dead Space, World of Goo, MegaMan 9, and Persona 4.

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#2 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
Add to that list that the engine is deferred rendering.
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Chutebox

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#3 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51575 Posts
Didn't read all that to know GTA4 isn't.
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Fire-of-Njozi

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#4 Fire-of-Njozi
Member since 2009 • 468 Posts
it is certainly a technical achievement. but gamers get caught up in its characters not looking as crisp as Gears/Uncharted/KillZone characters. most gamers have no appreciation for what's going on under the hood of the proverbial car. sad.
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Fire-of-Njozi

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#5 Fire-of-Njozi
Member since 2009 • 468 Posts
Didn't read all that to know GTA4 isn't.Chutebox
it's one of them, though. not at the top, but not far either.
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Toriko42

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#6 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts
I agree, that engine is amazing.
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Frozzik

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#7 Frozzik
Member since 2006 • 3914 Posts
Sorry but if you honestly think the blurry, stuttering mess i play on my PS3 is impressive then you really need to play more games. I have yet to play the PC version but from what i hear it looks better but runs like crap.
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Chutebox

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#8 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 51575 Posts
[QUOTE="Chutebox"]Didn't read all that to know GTA4 isn't.Fire-of-Njozi
it's one of them, though. not at the top, but not far either.

No doubt about that.
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BBwlovers

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#9 BBwlovers
Member since 2008 • 126 Posts
Inch for inch i think GTA4 has the best graphics on any console this gen, just my opinion boys.
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Hellboard

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#10 Hellboard
Member since 2008 • 2429 Posts
its sucks in pc, either crysis or far cry 2 or mgs 4 :lol: like gs claims...are more advanced...
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coakroach

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#11 coakroach
Member since 2005 • 1356 Posts
Generation isn't over.
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Jettero-Heller

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#12 Jettero-Heller
Member since 2002 • 4289 Posts
I agree with you. Technically it is awesome. But not enough to not make the game profoundly disapointing
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foxhound_fox

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#13 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Broken record: Crysis says "hi."
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DragonfireXZ95

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#14 DragonfireXZ95
Member since 2005 • 26712 Posts
The game is quite astonishing, but the game does not render cars and people outside of your view. If you look down one street, it may render cars and people to a certain distance, but around the corner there is nothing going on with the engine. Personally, I thought Crysis was a bigger technical Achievement.
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McdonaIdsGuy

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#15 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2,geow2 and MGS4 etc..has amazing animations,physics in a huge open world...is a shame that rockstar doesn't try a shooter or another game using that engine..
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McdonaIdsGuy

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#16 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
Broken record: Crysis says "hi."foxhound_fox
No argument there,but on consoles is pretty much impressive and even more on a fixed hardware.
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foxhound_fox

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#17 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
No argument there,but on consoles is pretty much impressive and even more on a fixed hardware.McdonaIdsGuy

This thread didn't specify consoles... it claims GTAIV is "the most technically profound game of this generation." And Crysis is by far a greater achievement from a technical standpoint.
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coakroach

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#18 coakroach
Member since 2005 • 1356 Posts
GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2McdonaIdsGuy
Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime?
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McdonaIdsGuy

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#19 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2coakroach
Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime?

Nope,but u can look for several Kz2 videos where shows that the enemy A.I isn't that good and your friend A.I is even worse..
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coakroach

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#20 coakroach
Member since 2005 • 1356 Posts
[QUOTE="coakroach"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2McdonaIdsGuy
Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime?

Nope,but u can look for several Kz2 videos where shows that the enemy A.I isn't that good and your friend A.I is even worse..

Oh! I thought you find out what the AI is like by playing the release version of the game! My mistake, I'm going to go on youtube now and play Duke Nukem Forever
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Bebi_vegeta

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#21 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2,geow2 and MGS4 etc..has amazing animations,physics in a huge open world...is a shame that rockstar doesn't try a shooter or another game using that engine..McdonaIdsGuy

GTA4 run on Euphoria and Rage engine...

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#22 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts

[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2,geow2 and MGS4 etc..has amazing animations,physics in a huge open world...is a shame that rockstar doesn't try a shooter or another game using that engine..Bebi_vegeta

GTA4 run on Euphoria and Rage engine...

So? Euphoria is only an DMS engine for animations.. second do you know what is Deferred Rendering?
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adman66

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#23 adman66
Member since 2003 • 1744 Posts

wow you think that gta4 ai is advanced lol. here is some game code

hear gunshot
number = random_number

if number == 1
then run
else if number == 2
then if gun = true
then shoot else run

other situation

wanted
if incar = true
policeradio_say("suspect driveing "+ car.color + car.type +" currently heading " + niko.direction +" on "+ niko.street)
else
policeradio_say("suspect on foot currently heading " + niko.direction +" on "+ niko.street)

wow that was advanced and hard to do some ai, all ai in this game is simple, actually alot of games are, the only way to judge good ai is in high paced action like during a fight or in the case of gta and crisis during armed combat since this is when alot of variables can change quickly based on users actions. gta in this case is bad, duck then shoot, throw grenade enemy sits there. hell i can stand out in the open and take out 10 guys and not die.

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#24 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts

wow you think that gta4 ai is advanced lol.

adman66


Ok Mr what is advanced in your opinion?
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Malta_1980

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#25 Malta_1980
Member since 2008 • 11890 Posts

GTAIV is one of the best games this gen (technically speaking)... huge details city... I still have to finish the game, only managed around 20% so far :)

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Bebi_vegeta

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#26 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine (same tech use it with KZ2) It manages to have amazing A.I ironically is better than the A.I found in games like KZ2,geow2 and MGS4 etc..has amazing animations,physics in a huge open world...is a shame that rockstar doesn't try a shooter or another game using that engine..McdonaIdsGuy

GTA4 run on Euphoria and Rage engine...

So? Euphoria is only an DMS engine for animations.. second do you know what is Deferred Rendering?

Alright then, give me a link of GTA4 using that engine.

You know what's Havok engine?

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#27 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

GTA4 run on Euphoria and Rage engine...

Bebi_vegeta

So? Euphoria is only an DMS engine for animations.. second do you know what is Deferred Rendering?

Alright then, give me a link of GTA4 using that engine.



Dude.. Deferred Rendering is a rendering technique..is the opposite of Forward rendering..

http://www.thenewhorizon.co.uk/blog/?p=144
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VideoGameGuy

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#28 VideoGameGuy
Member since 2002 • 7695 Posts
i dunno if maybe i got a bad copy or something but GTA4 is buggy as hell, has a LARGE amount of Pop-up and just generally doesn't look great.
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imprezawrx500

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#29 imprezawrx500
Member since 2004 • 19187 Posts
the physics really aren't that amazing, you can't really bring things falling down, can't blow up cover except for a small amount of break concrete off pillars. There only thing that make the physics look great is it's the first open world game to have half decent physics. Sure it's cool that npc talk on their phone but that is nothing amazing and enemy. ai is nothing special. why can you no longer shoot head off like you could in vice city? there is very little blood compared to vice city. yeah the limping is cool though. There are like 5 times in the story when there are 2 options that can happen, it's nice but nothing new many games have had it for years and the missions are the same on boring gta missions, drive somewhere kill some guys drive back repeat for 20 hours. There are games with much better storys and character interactions. you can't really compare gta4 to crysis as they are completely different types of games. The characters in crysis gears resistance etc are much much better than in gta4. gta4 is gta3 with flash graphics, it really has hardly improved upon previous gtas and has removed some of the cool features of previous games like owing business, tuning your cars etc. I doesn't achieve anything that games like oblivion and fallout 3 haven't, same big open world with lots going on.
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Bebi_vegeta

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#30 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"] So? Euphoria is only an DMS engine for animations.. second do you know what is Deferred Rendering?McdonaIdsGuy

Alright then, give me a link of GTA4 using that engine.



Dude.. Deferred Rendering is a rendering technique..is the opposite of Forward rendering..

http://www.thenewhorizon.co.uk/blog/?p=144

Yes, and where does it say it's used in GTA4?

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#31 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Alright then, give me a link of GTA4 using that engine.

Bebi_vegeta



Dude.. Deferred Rendering is a rendering technique..is the opposite of Forward rendering..

http://www.thenewhorizon.co.uk/blog/?p=144

Yes, and where does it say it's used in GTA4?



:| Anyone who understands game development can tell you it uses deferred rendering..go to beyond 3d forums and look for yourself even the devs confirmed this long ago...

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Bebi_vegeta

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#32 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]

Dude.. Deferred Rendering is a rendering technique..is the opposite of Forward rendering..

http://www.thenewhorizon.co.uk/blog/?p=144McdonaIdsGuy

Yes, and where does it say it's used in GTA4?



:| Anyone who understands game development can tell you it uses deferred rendering..go to beyond 3d forums and look for yourself even the devs confirmed this long ago...

Thank you for proving my point.

Other then that, what you are describing is a rendering technique... not an game engine.

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#33 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Yes, and where does it say it's used in GTA4?Bebi_vegeta



:| Anyone who understands game development can tell you it uses deferred rendering..go to beyond 3d forums and look for yourself even the devs confirmed this long ago...

Thank you for proving my point.



Proving you what? you think i'm wrong when in fact i'm right you asked for proof i gave you enough,you're a so called PC gamer..you wonder why GTAIV has aliasing problems on PC? well your answer is deferred rendering..for some reason it got a patch ;)
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McdonaIdsGuy

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#34 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Yes, and where does it say it's used in GTA4?Bebi_vegeta



:| Anyone who understands game development can tell you it uses deferred rendering..go to beyond 3d forums and look for yourself even the devs confirmed this long ago...

Thank you for proving my point.

Other then that, what you are describing is a rendering technique... not an game engine.



Thats the rendering technique the engine uses :| what other explanation you want?all the shading,lighting post processing effect are done with deferred rendering..
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Bebi_vegeta

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#35 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]

:| Anyone who understands game development can tell you it uses deferred rendering..go to beyond 3d forums and look for yourself even the devs confirmed this long ago...

McdonaIdsGuy

Thank you for proving my point.



Proving you what? you think i'm wrong when in fact i'm right you asked for proof i gave you enough,you're a so called PC gamer..you wonder why GTAIV has aliasing problems on PC? well your answer is deferred rendering..for some reason it got a patch ;)

Again this is not even a game engine... it's rendering technique. In your link you posted a description of rendering ... while I asked you proof saying GTA4 uses defering engine... which is not even an engine...

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Bebi_vegeta

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#36 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]

:| Anyone who understands game development can tell you it uses deferred rendering..go to beyond 3d forums and look for yourself even the devs confirmed this long ago...

McdonaIdsGuy

Thank you for proving my point.

Other then that, what you are describing is a rendering technique... not an game engine.



Thats the rendering technique the engine uses :| what other explanation you want?all the shading,lighting post processing effect are done with deferred rendering..

Yes and that engine would be? Which is the main argument... you never answered.

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#37 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Thank you for proving my point.

Bebi_vegeta



Proving you what? you think i'm wrong when in fact i'm right you asked for proof i gave you enough,you're a so called PC gamer..you wonder why GTAIV has aliasing problems on PC? well your answer is deferred rendering..for some reason it got a patch ;)

Again this is not even a game engine... it's rendering technique. In your link you posted a description of rendering ... while I asked you proof saying GTA4 uses defering engine... which is not even an engine...



''GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine'' what's so hard to understand about that? with that i was saying clearly the technique of the engine,if you didn't know or understand is not my problem,is like saying KZ2 runs on a deferred rendering engine,that doesn't make wrong is a known fact.
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McdonaIdsGuy

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#38 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Thank you for proving my point.

Other then that, what you are describing is a rendering technique... not an game engine.

Bebi_vegeta



Thats the rendering technique the engine uses :| what other explanation you want?all the shading,lighting post processing effect are done with deferred rendering..

Yes and that engine would be? Which is the main argument... you never answered.

So i need to say ''Rockstar Advanced Game Engine (Rage)'' and people instantly think is the ID tech 5...
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raskullibur

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#39 raskullibur
Member since 2003 • 3390 Posts
I have been playing Crysis and I dont find it graphically impressive I am more impressed with Call of Duty 5 and currently I am playing Rise of the Argonauts and really impressed with the graphics Crysis just looks good killing those flying alien squid...
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Bebi_vegeta

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#40 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]

Proving you what? you think i'm wrong when in fact i'm right you asked for proof i gave you enough,you're a so called PC gamer..you wonder why GTAIV has aliasing problems on PC? well your answer is deferred rendering..for some reason it got a patch ;)McdonaIdsGuy

Again this is not even a game engine... it's rendering technique. In your link you posted a description of rendering ... while I asked you proof saying GTA4 uses defering engine... which is not even an engine...



''GTAIV runs on a Deferred Rendering engine'' what's so hard to understand about that? with that i was saying clearly the technique of the engine,if you didn't know or understand is not my problem,is like saying KZ2 runs on a deferred rendering engine,that doesn't make wrong is a known fact.

Please provide a link about deferred rendering engine... you name place like beyond3d, well post the link and i'll admit i'm wrong.

I don't want a link saying what deffered rendering is... I want a link saying it's an game engine used for GTA4.

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Bebi_vegeta

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#41 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]

Thats the rendering technique the engine uses :| what other explanation you want?all the shading,lighting post processing effect are done with deferred rendering..McdonaIdsGuy

Yes and that engine would be? Which is the main argument... you never answered.

So i need to say ''Rockstar Advanced Game Engine (Rage)'' and people instantly think is the ID tech 5...

And then? The main arguement was, what engine are they using... not what type of rendering.

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clembo1990

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#42 clembo1990
Member since 2005 • 9976 Posts
It looks like blur. The NPCs are still dumber than Bill O'Reilly. It takes age to load. You still get FR drops.
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PAL360

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#43 PAL360
Member since 2007 • 30574 Posts

Great! Im not the only guy who thinks GTA4 is graphicaly very impressive. I think most developers should implement euphoria on their games like they did with havok

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McdonaIdsGuy

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#44 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Yes and that engine would be? Which is the main argument... you never answered.

Bebi_vegeta

So i need to say ''Rockstar Advanced Game Engine (Rage)'' and people instantly think is the ID tech 5...

And then? The main arguement was, what engine are they using... not what type of rendering.

Seriously you did all this big problem because of the name..you hate being corrected or what?
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zarshack

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#45 zarshack
Member since 2009 • 9936 Posts
i couldnt stand on the roof of a building and snipe out cars or people. it saddened me greatly.
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Master-Thief-09

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#46 Master-Thief-09
Member since 2009 • 2534 Posts
Definitely one of the most polished games I have played, if only the framerate was a little steadier then we would have a winner :D
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Master-Thief-09

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#47 Master-Thief-09
Member since 2009 • 2534 Posts
Add to that list that the engine is deferred rendering.McdonaIdsGuy
You have mentioned that a few times, what does deferred rendering mean?
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McdonaIdsGuy

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#48 McdonaIdsGuy
Member since 2008 • 3046 Posts
[QUOTE="McdonaIdsGuy"]Add to that list that the engine is deferred rendering.Master-Thief-09
You have mentioned that a few times, what does deferred rendering mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_shading http://www.thenewhorizon.co.uk/blog/?p=144 1 of the reasons why KZ2,Stalker,GTAIV have amazing lighting..
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#49 glenn2709
Member since 2005 • 1719 Posts
I'm not gonna read all that, but I do agree that GTAIV is somehow very impressive technically with everything running all together.
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#50 zarshack
Member since 2009 • 9936 Posts
GTAIV has buggy lighting, theres been tons of times i would be driving around and an entire buildings shadow would flash on and off or completely vanish :/