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i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmackSure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then, and a good atmosphere is a big part of what makes games immersive.
Are you a wii owner, future owner or pissed off fanboy? IhellzhitmanI'm a Wii60 owner, future PSWii60 owner (just got my HDTV; PS3's next). But I am primarily a PC gamer. Yes, one of the stereotypical "graphics whores" actually appreciates something more subtle than hardware horsepower. :P
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. No, they definetly dont.
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmackSure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you. In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture, "seeing the forest for the trees" in other words. You're not looking at the whole painting, to use yet another analogy. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game, because style affects only the macro, not the micro. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever about six months ago (my friend had the special edition that came with Wind Waker), a few months before I played TP, and I enjoyed it just as much as I enjoyed TP.
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.htekemeraldSure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. No, they definetly dont. Yes, yes they do. Unless you're being a ***** (I'll let you fill in the descriptive noun there) and nitpicking just for the sake of nitpicking instead of enjoying the game as a whole.
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you. In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive. i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game.
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmackSure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you. In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive. i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game. IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.
Dude, you obviously are very uneducated in this field. Art styles are only necessary in games like Zelda and WoW, because actual polygon counts and hi-res textures are out of the question. A game like Crysis is a game that takes place in very realistic environments, and when they (devs) increase polygon counts and resolutions, all they can do is make the game more immersive, making the player feel like he/she is in a warzone.
The exception: games like GeOW and the Halo series. They both contain phenomenal, system-pushing graphics, and also contain great art design. These visual styles combine the realistic and the not-so realistic, and when tech-specs meet art, the game absolutely thrives.
Games like Halo and GeOW will never, ever work on the Wii, nor will devs like
Blizzard ever make games like that, because they lack the power. Blizaard makes exceptionally good cinematics, it's just a shame that they spend all of their time making the movies and not making their games look pretty.
This is just a dumb comparison. :| Hardware will give the devs power to express ideas and thoughts, but it's not the only limiting facotr to a game or anything. Art styles are purely personal preferences. What may be a "great" art style to you, could be a crappy one to another. Some are agreed to be, some are not. But art is just expression, it may not be as good to anothers art, but then again it may have a different art style too. yoshi_64You're assuming game art is as sophisticated and discerning as professional cultural artwork. It's not. Game art is so basic, that almost any kind of art style will look good to everyone who plays. It's not hard to have an appealing art style when you're only a couple of rungs up from the bottom of the barrel.
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you. In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive. i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game. IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness. you're right, we probably wont see many more huge leaps in graphics, just improvements, but i also think that we've not hit the point quite yet where i'd call it quits for graphics. we're very close, but i think a few more interactive elements (moving hair, blowing clothes, etc.) could really get us to the point where graphical improvement will be almost unnoticeable. instead of ps2/xbox, i'd say this will be the final gen that really cleans it up and takes it where it was meant to go in the beginning. THEN, it will be all about style.
A true masterpiece combines both forms of graphical beauty. Gears of War combined art with technical power. Beautiful masterpieces of artwork, massive ivory statues lay in rubble on the ground as monsters paraded over them. While playing it felt like it was more than an above average looking game with only technical power. Statues and pillars of art crumbled around me as I spent a whole magazine on a Locust Boomer and rockets flew over my head and created massive explosions and kicked up dirt and dust into the air. Pillars and buildings that once stood as a testimony to the art and world of Sera toppled over as an emergence hole opened up, and Locust poored out. Textures made designs on the walls look better, extra hardware made everything look more alive.
Dude, you obviously are very uneducated in this field. Art styles are only necessary in games like Zelda and WoW, because actual polygon counts and hi-res textures are out of the question. A game like Crysis is a game that takes place in very realistic environments, and when they (devs) increase polygon counts and resolutions, all they can do is make the game more immersive, making the player feel like he/she is in a warzone.pyoobIncorrect. Even Crysis relies on highly polished art design. The very concept of "frozen tropical paradise" is itself an art style. Yes, the game's mundane levels look absolutely phenomenal, but when the game is actually released, mark my words, it'll be the stylized sections of the game--the frozen paradise, the Dome, the zero-G levels--that will shine over the contemporary "US-vs-North Korea" sections.
These visual styles combine the realistic and the not-so realistic, and when tech-specs meet art, the game absolutely thrives.pyoobOh, I agree. It's best to have both. But the split in importance is still in favor of art style over tech specs, 90-to-10.
But what about those games that have both? Great examples of this are FFXIII and Gears of War. Both games raise the bar technically, and have great looking art styles.The_Game21xIf FFXIII and Gears of War were on the PS2 and Xbox, they would not look nearly as impressive at first, but by the time you're on your third or fourth hour of gameplay, I doubt you'll notice.
:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.shaggymcpagreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd.
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmackSure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you. In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive. i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game. IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness. you're right, we probably wont see many more huge leaps in graphics, just improvements, but i also think that we've not hit the point quite yet where i'd call it quits for graphics. we're very close, but i think a few more interactive elements (moving hair, blowing clothes, etc.) could really get us to the point where graphical improvement will be almost unnoticeable. instead of ps2/xbox, i'd say this will be the final gen that really cleans it up and takes it where it was meant to go in the beginning. THEN, it will be all about style. We had moving hair and blowing clothes last-gen. Yes, it was mostly simulated, but simulated reaches at least the 85-90% point. Beyond that, and you're scraping Uncanny Valley territory.
[QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.Imallvol7agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd. Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it.
[QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.magus-21agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd. Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it. we have it running on a 30" hd crt. you cant get much better. Virtua Fighter 4 even looks 100 times better.
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then. eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you. In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive. i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game. IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness. you're right, we probably wont see many more huge leaps in graphics, just improvements, but i also think that we've not hit the point quite yet where i'd call it quits for graphics. we're very close, but i think a few more interactive elements (moving hair, blowing clothes, etc.) could really get us to the point where graphical improvement will be almost unnoticeable. instead of ps2/xbox, i'd say this will be the final gen that really cleans it up and takes it where it was meant to go in the beginning. THEN, it will be all about style. We had moving hair and blowing clothes last-gen. Yes, it was mostly simulated, but simulated reaches at least the 85-90% point. Beyond that, and you're scraping Uncanny Valley territory. well, that is my point. yes, we have them, but they're not good, and thus they do nothing but hurt the game. when those can be mastered and implemented universally, then graphics will have reached their pinnacle imo, and games will be seperated almost entirely by style, at least visually.
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.Imallvol7agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd. Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it. we have it running on a 30" hd crt. you cant get much better. Virtua Fighter 4 even looks 100 times better. Even CRTs look like crap if you don't calibrate it. Calibrate it.
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.Imallvol7agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd. Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it. we have it running on a 30" hd crt. you cant get much better. Virtua Fighter 4 even looks 100 times better.
The ugly textures that ruin the artistic feel that Nintendo had going with TP say otherwise.fatzombiepigeonOtherwise.
IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.Tony_aaaa
Although I see your point, i think were still1 generation away from that. This is the 1st generation that allows for things as basic as realistic light, clothing, skin, physics, etc. Athough "art" is almost impossible to define, we've only just reached the point where we have all the basic builing blocks to allow for a game being rated on it's graphic forbidden>
My point is that we DO NOT NEED realistic light, clothing, skin, physics, etc., for the same reason why I'd rather watch Toy Story or Prince of Egypt or whatnot over Final Fantasy Spirits Within: until we reach ABSOLUTELY 100% REALISM, striving for a stylized art style will always result in a better looking game than striving for realism.Please Log In to post.
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