Hardware graphics don't matter. Art style does.

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magus-21

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#1 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.
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-Xplode-

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#2 -Xplode-
Member since 2006 • 576 Posts

I think my hair matters?

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whoisryanmack

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#3 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts
i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great. on the whole however, i do tend to think the games with a good art style are better looking than the rest.
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hellzhitman

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#4 hellzhitman
Member since 2006 • 1512 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

Are you a wii owner, future owner or pissed off fanboy? I
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magus-21

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#5 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmack
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then, and a good atmosphere is a big part of what makes games immersive.
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magus-21

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#6 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
Are you a wii owner, future owner or pissed off fanboy? Ihellzhitman
I'm a Wii60 owner, future PSWii60 owner (just got my HDTV; PS3's next). But I am primarily a PC gamer. Yes, one of the stereotypical "graphics whores" actually appreciates something more subtle than hardware horsepower. :P
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htekemerald

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#7 htekemerald
Member since 2004 • 7325 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

No, they definetly dont.
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whoisryanmack

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#8 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.
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CR00K

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#9 CR00K
Member since 2006 • 2657 Posts

I actually partially agree.  A great example of your statement:  Okami

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ChimTheGrim21

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#10 ChimTheGrim21
Member since 2004 • 3572 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

Agreed... I think sure there needs to be some graphical progression over time, but the most important factor in video games visuals is the art style. If you're going for realistic, then you better master it, because the more realistic you try for.. the harder it is to make it look real. An art style however can be very cool looking in its own right without trying extremely hard. A lot of people argue that Zelda TP looks better than some 360 games--mainly due to the art style.
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magus-21

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#11 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmack
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.

In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture, "seeing the forest for the trees" in other words. You're not looking at the whole painting, to use yet another analogy. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game, because style affects only the macro, not the micro. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever about six months ago (my friend had the special edition that came with Wind Waker), a few months before I played TP, and I enjoyed it just as much as I enjoyed TP.
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DementedDragon

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#12 DementedDragon
Member since 2003 • 5095 Posts

I think my hair matters?

-Xplode-

'Lightning's' hair is better than yours.  :P

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magus-21

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#13 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.htekemerald
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

No, they definetly dont.

Yes, yes they do. Unless you're being a ***** (I'll let you fill in the descriptive noun there) and nitpicking just for the sake of nitpicking instead of enjoying the game as a whole.
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16bitkevin

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#14 16bitkevin
Member since 2005 • 3962 Posts
This is why I think RE4 looks better than some Xbox 360 games. Some 360 games are just bland as hell.
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fatzombiepigeon

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#15 fatzombiepigeon
Member since 2005 • 8199 Posts
The ugly textures that ruin the artistic feel that Nintendo had going with TP say otherwise.
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whoisryanmack

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#16 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.

In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive.

i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game.
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Tony_aaaa

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#17 Tony_aaaa
Member since 2007 • 475 Posts
To an extent yes, but you're overlooking that "hardware graphics" enable you to have certain types of expression. Walking through a dense forest with beams of sunlight breaking in, is simply better with hardware that allows realistic light and HDR effects. Having hair and clothing that properly moves+ flows when the wind blows is certainly better than hearing the wind and seeing nothing change onscreen. Good hardware is necessary to real-time (game) computer art, always will be. That said, the easier it is to achieve these effects, the more time will be spent developing a certain "look" for a title, rather than "just getting it to run." Ease of programming is pretty much as essential as overall hardware power.
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hamumu

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#18 hamumu
Member since 2005 • 1967 Posts
Yeah, because Zelda TP could totally have been done on the NES. :lol:
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Imallvol7

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#19 Imallvol7
Member since 2003 • 7566 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

sounds like the rantings of a jealous gamer. cant afford a big boy system? lol, how can you even say that? i love it when people cant have something, its completely not needed anymore.

The first thing i said when i played Zelda TP was EWWWW. . . . . .
on an hdtv it looks horrible.  hard to go back to after playing ps3/360.  We have a wii at my house so yes i have played it.  I used to be supportive of the wii.  Absolutely hate it though and afraid that it will influence gaming in the wrong direction.  If wii does well, does ps and xbox go that way destorying the whole hardcore games thing (like ff, gears, etc.)
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yoshi_64

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#20 yoshi_64
Member since 2003 • 25261 Posts
This is just a dumb comparison. :| Hardware will give the devs power to express ideas and thoughts, but it's not the only limiting facotr to a game or anything. Art styles are purely personal preferences. What may be a "great" art style to you, could be a crappy one to another. Some are agreed to be, some are not. But art is just expression, it may not be as good to anothers art, but then again it may have a different art style too.
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Ragashahs

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#21 Ragashahs
Member since 2005 • 8785 Posts
i think you need a balance of each. true you can find games that have great graphics or great art style, but to have a good overall looking game to need both
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magus-21

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#22 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmack
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.

In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive.

i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game.

IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.
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pyoob

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#23 pyoob
Member since 2005 • 443 Posts

Dude, you obviously are very uneducated in this field. Art styles are only necessary in games like Zelda and WoW, because actual polygon counts and hi-res textures are out of the question. A game like Crysis is a game that takes place in very realistic environments, and when they (devs) increase polygon counts and resolutions, all they can do is make the game more immersive, making the player feel like he/she is in a warzone.

The exception: games like GeOW and the Halo series. They both contain phenomenal, system-pushing graphics, and also contain great art design. These visual styles combine the realistic and the not-so realistic, and when tech-specs meet art, the game absolutely thrives.

Games like Halo and GeOW will never, ever work on the Wii, nor will devs like
Blizzard ever make games like that, because they lack the power. Blizaard makes exceptionally good cinematics, it's just a shame that they spend all of their time making the movies and not making their games look pretty.

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thefjk

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#24 thefjk
Member since 2003 • 4324 Posts
But I heard that the way you hold a control-pad matters!
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#25 shaggymcp
Member since 2003 • 2896 Posts
:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.
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magus-21

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#26 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
This is just a dumb comparison. :| Hardware will give the devs power to express ideas and thoughts, but it's not the only limiting facotr to a game or anything. Art styles are purely personal preferences. What may be a "great" art style to you, could be a crappy one to another. Some are agreed to be, some are not. But art is just expression, it may not be as good to anothers art, but then again it may have a different art style too. yoshi_64
You're assuming game art is as sophisticated and discerning as professional cultural artwork. It's not. Game art is so basic, that almost any kind of art style will look good to everyone who plays. It's not hard to have an appealing art style when you're only a couple of rungs up from the bottom of the barrel.
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whoisryanmack

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#27 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.

In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive.

i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game.

IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.

you're right, we probably wont see many more huge leaps in graphics, just improvements, but i also think that we've not hit the point quite yet where i'd call it quits for graphics. we're very close, but i think a few more interactive elements (moving hair, blowing clothes, etc.) could really get us to the point where graphical improvement will be almost unnoticeable. instead of ps2/xbox, i'd say this will be the final gen that really cleans it up and takes it where it was meant to go in the beginning. THEN, it will be all about style.
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fatzombiepigeon

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#28 fatzombiepigeon
Member since 2005 • 8199 Posts

A true masterpiece combines both forms of graphical beauty. Gears of War combined art with technical power. Beautiful masterpieces of artwork, massive ivory statues lay in rubble on the ground as monsters paraded over them. While playing it felt like it was more than an above average looking game with only technical power. Statues and pillars of art crumbled around me as I spent a whole magazine on a Locust Boomer and rockets flew over my head and created massive explosions and kicked up dirt and dust into the air. Pillars and buildings that once stood as a testimony to the art and world of Sera toppled over as an emergence hole opened up, and Locust poored out. Textures made designs on the walls look better, extra hardware made everything look more alive.

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The_Game21x

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#29 The_Game21x
Member since 2005 • 26440 Posts
But what about those games that have both? Great examples of this are FFXIII and Gears of War. Both games raise the bar technically, and have great looking art styles.
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magus-21

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#30 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
Dude, you obviously are very uneducated in this field. Art styles are only necessary in games like Zelda and WoW, because actual polygon counts and hi-res textures are out of the question. A game like Crysis is a game that takes place in very realistic environments, and when they (devs) increase polygon counts and resolutions, all they can do is make the game more immersive, making the player feel like he/she is in a warzone.pyoob
Incorrect. Even Crysis relies on highly polished art design. The very concept of "frozen tropical paradise" is itself an art style. Yes, the game's mundane levels look absolutely phenomenal, but when the game is actually released, mark my words, it'll be the stylized sections of the game--the frozen paradise, the Dome, the zero-G levels--that will shine over the contemporary "US-vs-North Korea" sections.
These visual styles combine the realistic and the not-so realistic, and when tech-specs meet art, the game absolutely thrives.pyoob
Oh, I agree. It's best to have both. But the split in importance is still in favor of art style over tech specs, 90-to-10.
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#31 GundamGuy0
Member since 2003 • 10970 Posts
I agree you need both. No amout of polygons in the world will help if your art team doesn't do anything with them. 
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magus-21

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#32 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
But what about those games that have both? Great examples of this are FFXIII and Gears of War. Both games raise the bar technically, and have great looking art styles.The_Game21x
If FFXIII and Gears of War were on the PS2 and Xbox, they would not look nearly as impressive at first, but by the time you're on your third or fourth hour of gameplay, I doubt you'll notice.
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Imallvol7

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#33 Imallvol7
Member since 2003 • 7566 Posts
:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.shaggymcp
agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd.
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magus-21

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#34 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.whoisryanmack
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.

In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive.

i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game.

IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.

you're right, we probably wont see many more huge leaps in graphics, just improvements, but i also think that we've not hit the point quite yet where i'd call it quits for graphics. we're very close, but i think a few more interactive elements (moving hair, blowing clothes, etc.) could really get us to the point where graphical improvement will be almost unnoticeable. instead of ps2/xbox, i'd say this will be the final gen that really cleans it up and takes it where it was meant to go in the beginning. THEN, it will be all about style.

We had moving hair and blowing clothes last-gen. Yes, it was mostly simulated, but simulated reaches at least the 85-90% point. Beyond that, and you're scraping Uncanny Valley territory.
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magus-21

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#35 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.Imallvol7
agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd.

Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it.
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jackassultima

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#36 jackassultima
Member since 2005 • 1048 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

Yes, but without a "GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz" you can't pull off your art style!
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coolguy1111

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#37 coolguy1111
Member since 2005 • 3991 Posts
Well, Crysis has more art then most Wii games :/.
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magus-21

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#38 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

sounds like the rantings of a jealous gamer. cant afford a big boy system? lol, how can you even say that? i love it when people cant have something, its completely not needed anymore.

The first thing i said when i played Zelda TP was EWWWW. . . . . .
on an hdtv it looks horrible. hard to go back to after playing ps3/360. We have a wii at my house so yes i have played it. I used to be supportive of the wii. Absolutely hate it though and afraid that it will influence gaming in the wrong direction. If wii does well, does ps and xbox go that way destorying the whole hardcore games thing (like ff, gears, etc.)

I bought my 360 first, then my Wii. I have an LCD HDTV with a 5.1 surround sound system (separates, NOT pre-built out of a box), a Panasonic digital receiver, upconverting DVD player, and a Vista PC hooked up to it all. I run regular encoding sessions on my home PC, and stream DVDs straight from my hard drive to my 360, AND I personally work on the Xbox Live Video Marketplace So tell me again how I am jealous of "big boy systems." Please. I want to laugh.
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Imallvol7

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#39 Imallvol7
Member since 2003 • 7566 Posts
[QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.magus-21
agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd.

Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it.

we have it running on a 30" hd crt. you cant get much better. Virtua Fighter 4 even looks 100 times better.
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whoisryanmack

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#40 whoisryanmack
Member since 2006 • 7675 Posts
[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"]i will agree. not completely, if the textures look like hell, but the art style is good, it still wont look that great.magus-21
Sure it will. Cases in point: any of the top games on the N64 or PS1. Those games have NO textures to speak of, yet they still look good. Not advanced, but they still evoke the same atmosphere now as they did back then.

eh..i disagree. at the time, we didnt expect much, so the problems could be overlooked. those games were still impressive graphically at that point. nowadays, if you have a wall with what looks to be a picture of bricks on it, your art style isnt going to save you.

In THAT case, you're just looking at a single part of the overall picture. It's like looking at a pixel on your TV while playing Gears of War and concluding that the graphics suck because that one pixel can only show one color. Take in the whole game. I only played Ocarina of Time for the first time ever a few months ago, just before I played TP, and they were both equally impressive.

i know the example was small and petty, but you get my point? ocarina looked great back then both graphically and style-wise, but today the art style doesnt save it for me. you have to have SOME kind of graphics going on in this gen, but i agree with the initial point that art style has more potential to make or break a game.

IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.

you're right, we probably wont see many more huge leaps in graphics, just improvements, but i also think that we've not hit the point quite yet where i'd call it quits for graphics. we're very close, but i think a few more interactive elements (moving hair, blowing clothes, etc.) could really get us to the point where graphical improvement will be almost unnoticeable. instead of ps2/xbox, i'd say this will be the final gen that really cleans it up and takes it where it was meant to go in the beginning. THEN, it will be all about style.

We had moving hair and blowing clothes last-gen. Yes, it was mostly simulated, but simulated reaches at least the 85-90% point. Beyond that, and you're scraping Uncanny Valley territory.

well, that is my point. yes, we have them, but they're not good, and thus they do nothing but hurt the game. when those can be mastered and implemented universally, then graphics will have reached their pinnacle imo, and games will be seperated almost entirely by style, at least visually.
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magus-21

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#41 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.Imallvol7
agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd.

Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it.

we have it running on a 30" hd crt. you cant get much better. Virtua Fighter 4 even looks 100 times better.

Even CRTs look like crap if you don't calibrate it. Calibrate it.
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Imallvol7

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#42 Imallvol7
Member since 2003 • 7566 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

sounds like the rantings of a jealous gamer. cant afford a big boy system? lol, how can you even say that? i love it when people cant have something, its completely not needed anymore.

The first thing i said when i played Zelda TP was EWWWW. . . . . .
on an hdtv it looks horrible. hard to go back to after playing ps3/360. We have a wii at my house so yes i have played it. I used to be supportive of the wii. Absolutely hate it though and afraid that it will influence gaming in the wrong direction. If wii does well, does ps and xbox go that way destorying the whole hardcore games thing (like ff, gears, etc.)

I bought my 360 first, then my Wii. I have an LCD HDTV with a 5.1 surround sound system, a Panasonic digital receiver, upconverting DVD player, and a Vista PC hooked up to it all. I run regular encoding sessions on my home PC, and stream DVDs straight from my hard drive to my 360. So tell me again how I am jealous of "big boy systems." Please. I want to laugh.

I love these rebuttals. I dont care what you have. You could have it, you could not. Good for you. It doesnt matter. You have your views, i have mine. I think your statements rediculous. Give me gears of war/resistance/lair/halo/anything over okami or windwaker anyday.
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danneswegman

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#43 danneswegman
Member since 2005 • 12937 Posts
both
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magus-21

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#45 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
[QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

sounds like the rantings of a jealous gamer. cant afford a big boy system? lol, how can you even say that? i love it when people cant have something, its completely not needed anymore.

The first thing i said when i played Zelda TP was EWWWW. . . . . .
on an hdtv it looks horrible. hard to go back to after playing ps3/360. We have a wii at my house so yes i have played it. I used to be supportive of the wii. Absolutely hate it though and afraid that it will influence gaming in the wrong direction. If wii does well, does ps and xbox go that way destorying the whole hardcore games thing (like ff, gears, etc.)

I bought my 360 first, then my Wii. I have an LCD HDTV with a 5.1 surround sound system, a Panasonic digital receiver, upconverting DVD player, and a Vista PC hooked up to it all. I run regular encoding sessions on my home PC, and stream DVDs straight from my hard drive to my 360. So tell me again how I am jealous of "big boy systems." Please. I want to laugh.

I love these rebuttals. I dont care what you have. You could have it, you could not. Good for you. It doesnt matter. You have your views, i have mine. I think your statements rediculous. Give me gears of war/resistance/lair/halo/anything over okami or windwaker anyday.

In other words, you just lost the only way you had to mock my perfectly valid argument, so now you resort to "agree to disagree." Nice.
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GundamGuy0

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#46 GundamGuy0
Member since 2003 • 10970 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"][QUOTE="Imallvol7"][QUOTE="shaggymcp"]:lol: just accept it... wii's graphics suck hard ! and you can try work your way around it or come up with what ever excuse you want, its not going to change the fact that they hurt the eye's of anyone that has actually played a next gen console.Imallvol7
agreed 100%. I dont care who says zelda looks great, looking at it on an HD tv makes it hard to play simply because the pixelation makes your eyes hurt. I really dont care in minigames like warioware and wii sports, but zelda and ssbb shoud be in 1080i hd.

Calibrate your TV. Buy the Digital Video Essentials DVD, because I did for my HDTV, and everything, even SD content, looks great on it.

we have it running on a 30" hd crt. you cant get much better. Virtua Fighter 4 even looks 100 times better.



are you using the component cables... It looks great on my HDTV.
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orangeonxbox

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#47 orangeonxbox
Member since 2005 • 429 Posts
[QUOTE="magus-21"]It's because of art style that games look good, not GPUs that have 20 gigs of memory and run at 10 terahertz Have all the hardware-driven graphics you want. Art style is still far more important.

if anyone thinks this is false, please code your GPU to make some stunning art.. People make art, not named chips........
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beat89

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#48 beat89
Member since 2004 • 870 Posts
The ugly textures that ruin the artistic feel that Nintendo had going with TP say otherwise.fatzombiepigeon
Otherwise.

Honestly, TP looked great to me. Less great on a HDTV admittedly, but still not too bad.

Of course, I have only spent very limited time on both the 360 and PS3, so I guess I don't have that high standard. But TP looked great to me. Had great art direction.

But on the original topic, I'd say it's a pretty even split. About 60-40 in favor of art direction. However, there's no denying that pure power is important.
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magus-21

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#49 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts

Tony_aaaa

IMO we've reached the inflection point with the PS2/Xbox generation, and every graphical improvement past the PS2/Xbox/GCN level will just be incremental instead of generational, and thus will have a minimal effect on a game's overall attractiveness.

Although I see your point, i think were still1 generation away from that. This is the 1st generation that allows for things as basic as realistic light, clothing, skin, physics, etc. Athough "art" is almost impossible to define, we've only just reached the point where we have all the basic builing blocks to allow for a game being rated on it's graphic forbidden>

My point is that we DO NOT NEED realistic light, clothing, skin, physics, etc., for the same reason why I'd rather watch Toy Story or Prince of Egypt or whatnot over Final Fantasy Spirits Within: until we reach ABSOLUTELY 100% REALISM, striving for a stylized art style will always result in a better looking game than striving for realism.
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Tony_aaaa

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#50 Tony_aaaa
Member since 2007 • 475 Posts
Argghhh--i deleted my post as over 75% was cut off at that "forbidden>". Anyway, I was trying to say that once we get to the point where we don't have to compromise/eliminate art due to basic limitations of hardware, we'll be at that "point" of style being more important than "good graphics" Toy story is a bad example as it was CGI not realtime, but I get your idea. My rebuttal is that because games are a realtime artform, ---they must behave in realtime, making proper, dynamic motion (physics, hair, clothing, hdr light) essential to the experience.